London airports during the Olympics

[mutt]

After reading the AIC about the Olympics and the lack of airport slots. Can anyone recommend other convenient airports with a minimum 7000 ft runway length, and easy road access to the city.

Thanks

Mutt

[Genghis the Engineer]

7000ft is a lot of runway, what the heck are you flying?

So, places you might try not listed in the AIC (http://www.ead.eurocontrol.int/eadbasic/pamslight-97A385EEDF715BD7450079B92DE22BA2/7FE5QZZF3FXUS/EN/SUP/NON_AIRAC/018-2011/EG_SUP_2011_18_en_2011-08-11.pdf) ?

East Midlands (EGNX) is fairly well equipped and user friendly, and probably an hour by train or two by car from the centre of London.

Bristol (EGGD) is slightly shorter than you'd prefer but similarly placed for London.

Exeter (EGTE) is about the same length as Bristol, no problem to London by train, but a dreadful journey by car.

Frankly that's about it. Anything else I can think of is either 3+ hours travel from London, or military, or in the AIC.

G

[cldrvr]

Mutt flies a 4-engined monster. I have no clue how to go about getting slots for the Olympics, am going to avoid it like the plague. You sure they are all taken? None available at LTN? Just about 7,000, not even sure if it is width/weight restricted for you though.

Get yourself a handler/flight following co. and let them sort it out for you for a few quid?

[Globally Challenged]

Probably better with LFPB and Eurostar? :}

[mmitch]

Manston is pretty quiet with a 10,000' runway....
mmitch.

[silverknapper]

Seeing as Genghis mentioned Bristol, Filton may not be a bad idea. Though I second the East Mids idea.

[CaptainProp]

Not sure how bad LGW and STN will be during the Olympics but I would for sure have a look at STN.

CP

[CaptainProp]

Just found this:

It’s important to get your aircraft parking requests in as soon as possible due to limited availability in the London area. While airport slots are an absolute requirement at all London-area airports during the Olympics period, they will not be issued until your aircraft parking has been confirmed. Stansted, London (EGSS), for example, has airport slots for 50 aircraft movements per hour (takeoff and landing combined), but long-term aircraft parking may not always be available, particularly if requested closer to the Olympics. For late requests, you may be able to drop and reposition to an outlying area. Some ground handlers are keeping some stands free (with four hour parking limits) to allow operators to drop and go when parking is unavailable. Options will become fewer and fewer the longer you put off confirming parking and services over the busy summer period.

...and....

Charter (non-scheduled commercial) operators must apply to U.K. Department of Transport (DFT) for a landing permit with lead time of five working days preferred (and minimum of 48 working hours’ notice). Once permits are approved, schedule changes can usually be accommodated. If the requested schedule change exceeds 24 hours of the approved arrival or departure time, a permit revision is required and can usually be accomplished the same day during business hours. Passenger changes (additions or deletions) require resubmission of a charter landing permit request due to cabotage restrictions. Charter (non-scheduled commercial) operators traveling to London must provide evidence to the U.K. DFT that they have confirmed airport slots and aircraft parking for the Olympics along with all the other required documentation for the landing permit.

All standard stuff but good to keep in mind.

CP

[cldrvr]

Drop a PM to Opsbeatch (http://www.pprune.org/members/182464-opsbeatch) she seems to be in the know on that side of the business

[HS-125]

Could Cambridge be a possibility?

Just under 6500ft, but certainly accessible for the larger aircraft.

Send me a PM if you require any additional information.

[function]

Manston . . .

London Olympics 2012 | Manston, Kent's International Airport (http://www.manstonairport.com/for-business/2012-olympics/2012-olympics.html)

[ShyTorque]

East Midlands (EGNX) is fairly well equipped and user friendly, and probably an hour by train or two by car from the centre of London.

I can agree with the first part of the statement, but all after "probably" is more than a bit optimistic....

....even without delays caused by the Olympics! :p

[AircraftOperations]

Realistically how busy is EGHH likely to be with Olympic movements?

Runway is okay and 747 based there already.

[Duchess_Driver]

As someone has already mentioned the Eurostar... how about London East at LFQQ?

Swap parking slot problems for train ticket problems I suspect tho!

[mutt]

Thanks for the advice, its easy for us to pick an airport from Jeppesen charts, but we had no idea about the surrounding infrastructure.

The problem with the slot system is trying to get the passengers to decide what date whey want to travel :)

Mutt

[cldrvr]

LTN and STN are probably the easiest infrastructure wise, both roughly 45 minutes to the Olympic site. If your pax don't know the exact dates why don't you look at something like what the others suggested, eg EMA, Manston or even Bournemouth/Bristol and get a chopper transfer to one of the smaller fields close by the site, it may well be easier to get last minute slots for the chopper then for the A/C. Plenty of helicopter charter companies around in the London area and lots of smaller airfields that can accomodate helicopters close to the Olympic park. There was word a while back that a new helicopter site was going to be opened close to the Olympic park, maybe worth a post on the helicopter forum here.

Don't put your pax on the train, it is a nightmare here at the best of times and not an experience you would want to put them through.

[VIKING9]

Mutt

Are these flight private or charter ? If charter, you'll also need a landing permit in addition to slots and it won't be issued until slots are approved.

Happy days :cool:

[mutt]

We dont operate commercially, purely black and white private.

Mutt

[eyealess]

Manston for that length of tarmac. High speed train from Ashford in kent straight into London. Uses the same line as the Eurostar and its very Quick. Oh and with some time to kill, check out the city of Canterbury. Very preety. Enjoy:ok:

[eglk01]

Morning everyone attended a meeting yesterday and only around 25% of the predicted 10,000 extra business flights have been booked as of this week,
Main places seem to be LTN,STN,LCY,BIG,FAB,
At moment still a lot of spare capacity around as of this week anyway,people leaving it till last minute or not attending? nobody realy knows still,
we have no bookings yet and can park around 60 Business jets or more

and right next door to Farnborough

hope we see some of you during the games and Farnborough airshow.
best regards.

[No RYR for me]

EGHH has 7400 so would get my vote. Assuming that it is a VIP pax I would suggest EGHH with a chopper to London.....

[CaptainProp]

Some of you are talking about transfer to London by train, TRAIN?! Are you serious?! :eek: I would get fired for even suggesting that!!

[ShyTorque]

it may well be easier to get last minute slots for the chopper then for the A/C.

Not a good idea to rely on that! Last minute helicopter flights are definitely not allowed (see the special rules for the Olympics restricted airspace).

[mutt]

TRAIN? I did find this quite humorous, especially considering the size of the aircraft :):) But ground transportation isn't my issue.

Mutt

[CaptainProp]

Yea, perhaps this could be something you could suggest mutt? :E

Private Rail Cars (http://www.privaterailcars.net/index.html)

Make sure you've got a plan B though. That is a plan B for your continued career... :ok:

[mutt]

That is a plan B for your continued career... Thanks for the advice :ok::ok::ok: But as a driver my responsibilities finish as soon as the door opens :)

Mutt

[galaxy flyer]

Mutt

Not anymore they don't. :E

GF

PS: I sincerely doubt London can do as nearly a nice a job as Beijing did. Truly first class in '08.

GF

[npf0810]

Mutt,

I've just sent you an email ref Olympics.

Best.

[Bilbo Bagover]

As yet Battersesa Heliport still does not know what restrictions will be imposed for the Olympics. It's a pathetic shambles. Hopefully sense will prevail and off airport flights will be allowed with a Flightplan and GAR.

Would recommend Dunsfold for private operators with its 6000ft runway and an airfield based Agusta 109 Grand operator who can get your pax to Battersea in 12 minutes!

[JOE-FBS]

Coventry any good?

6500 feet, ILS both ways, radar, long opening hours, hardly used most of the time.

Two hours by road from London but so are some of the other suggestions above.

[STN Ramp Rat]

I am hearing from various sources at various airports that traffic for the Olympics is less than forecast and that outside a few peaks there is availability out there. Has al the planning been overkill?

[flydive1]

No, it hasn't been an overkill, it's just that with all the troubles, complications and costs plenty of people decided to keep well clear

[peterh337]

There are plenty of indications that the airport business development managers (with their fresh MBAs from the University of Upper Warlingham) went way OTT with their projections.

Even Lydd has/had a telephone switchboard message of "Welcome to London Ashford Airport, your gateway to the 2012 Olympics" :E:E:E:E:E:E:E:E

[chevvron]

Plenty of room at Dunsfold (about 10nm west of London/Gatwick) if you're corporate ie not charter as they're not licenced. It might be a bit short if you really need 7000ft (6170ft).
Phone Larry Major on 07836 555515.
There's a 747 parked there as a film set and it was flown in.

[SpringHeeledJack]

So.....

The party is almost over, where did everyone end up ?

[galaxy flyer]

Meldex

Haven't been paying attention, but everything I've heard about the London Games has been positive. My comments were more directed at the aviation side of things, not the Games themselves. Beijing had only one airport, controlled and managed the private jet side of things very well and had much fewer places for problems--everything was CONTROLLED. The Beijing Games were tightly controlled show put on by the Chinese for reasons beyond the Games, the Britsh put on the Games for the good of the Games and the athletes.

GF

[Genghis the Engineer]

As a very enthusiastic aviator with a lifelong dislike of spectator sports, I think I've found the London Olympics surprising.

Aviation has been a mess. EGTC, where I spend a lot of my time, put in all sorts of restrictions for the huge number of business jets that we never saw - maybe a couple of extra movements per day overall. I personally avoided trying to fly GA in R112 until today - 2 hours of trying to get a flight plan accepted for a short hop out of the zone and I eventually gave up, cancelled my student, and did something else.

But, despite all my prejudices I have really enjoyed watching the games, and have been as bought into the new national obsession as anybody.

G

[Qualityman]

I'm based at EGTF (Fairoaks) smack in the middle of the restricted zone and just inside the prohibited area, and operate a commercial fleet and an RTF.
When the Restrictions were first proposed we had the same reaction as most other people and seriously considered closing up shop and having an extended holiday. VFR Flight plans needed for every movement and all IFR movements requiring co-ordinated slots sounded like a complete nightmare.

BUT I have to say that now - with only 1.5 hours of Atlas control remaining - we have actually been busier than at this time last year and have experienced no serious problems at all.
Every time I've spoken to Atlas with a problem they've been very understanding, knowledgeable and helpful. Job well done in my book.

And we never once had an issue getting an IFR co-ordinated slot at any of the airports we visited!

[dc9-32]

I second qualityman in his comments. I have not experienced any issues and even flew a B734 FL130 from the west of the zone out towards EGMC out over the wash, back to EGSH and EGMC then FL140 across the SAM VOR. All co-ordinated and planned correctly with LATCC being a great help too.

[cessnapete]

I don't know what you have been doing wrong. Have been in and out of 112 several times Other than the two hours notice for flight plans we have had approval within 30-40 mins of filing and very helpfully handling by Atlas.
Finger trouble with flight plans perhaps?
Anyway never mind, nearly all over now!

[Expressflight]

dc9-32

An ILS approach/touch & go sortie at EGMC wasn't it?

[dc9-32]

Express - I could answer that but I'd then have to shoot you which is just not cricket :E