AW139 on FAA license

[Demented]

What is the easiest (cheapest) way to get the AW139 endorsed on an FAA license? I have over 1000 hrs on type on an current ICAO ATPL license. Do not have the FAA license yet. Anybody?

[ATPMBA]

There's sim in Morristown, New Jersey and the last time I heard the sim course was was on the $60k - $70k range. I think with your hours you could do all the training and flight test in the sim. Flight Safety now has a course set up so check with them. Hopefully they will offer some price competition.

[Demented]

Don't the FAA recognize the 139 rating on a foreign rating? Do you have to do a complete course, not just a check ride..... I have the paperwork to back it up!!!

[fluffy5]

You will have to get a atpl license first, going rate to this will be anywhere between 5,000 to 10,000 usd. Then you do a type rating test on the 139 to put on the atpl. So you can do the licences on a R22, as long as you meet the requirements to get an atpl. But my knowledge of this is quite limited, all I remember is that you can do a swap off your ICAO Atpl, but will have to do the laser grade exams, minimum of three hours and then flight test for the atpl.
Then 139 flight or sim test, to put it on your new FAA atpl.

Fluffy

[gulliBell]

I'm no expert here...but assuming you hold a foreign ATPL and meet the experience requirements for the FAA ATPL

1. Pass the FAA Class 1 medical (there are provisions for recognizing a foreign medical as equivalent)
2. Pass the written knowledge test for the FAA ATP-H
3. Apply for an FAA PPL-H based on your foreign license (you need this license so you can do any necessary flying training, and flight test)
4. Pass the ATP flight test with a Designated Airmen Examiner (this test need not be done in an AW139, you can do it in a suitably equipped R22 if you want!)

Once you pass all the above they should put the AW139 on your FAA license if it's on your foreign license.

I think that's the process, but I could be wrong!

Salient point here is there's no bypassing the requirement for a written and flight test I'm afraid, and that is usually done on an N-registered helicopter.

[tottigol]

Dem, where (if I may ask) did you get your type rating if not in Whippany/Philly/Milan?

[birrddog]

I'd caution to add getting the TSA approval for flight rating, which is required for non-US nationals. Some more info can be found on this (http://www.aopa.org/tsa_rule/alienft.html) AOPA page, or the TSA site at www.flightschoolcandidates.gov

You may also need a special visa that allows flight training, rather than the regular visitor visa or visa waiver.

I'd also recommend getting an PPL(H) by doing the written test, 3 hrs of instruction and a check ride for those with more than 100hrs, as a validation takes upwards of 3 months, and once you have the FAA ticket it is permanent rather than restricted by the validation.

Is it possible to go from FAA PPL(H) (validation or basic) to ATP(H), without having to do a CPL first?

[gulliBell]

Is it possible to go from FAA PPL(H) (validation or basic) to ATP(H), without having to do a CPL first?

Yes, if you have a foreign ATP with IR and meet the experience requirements for the FAA ATP (that's how I got mine, from PPL to ATP without needing a CPL).

[rick1128]

Go to the FAA website and look up the conversation requirements. You can do the FAA validation program and a foreign pilot instrument written. The FAA will then issue you a FAA Private Pilot certificate with an instrument rating. Then you can do an upgrade/recurrent course in the 139. Since it is a Level D sim you should be able to do the type in the sim. You will have to make arrangements far enough in advance so you can be scheduled properly. If the facility doesn't have a qualified examiner on staff they will have to bring in an inspector.

[Demented]

Gents thank you for the info.

GulliBell, what I gather is
1. Get current ICAO verified.
2. Medical
3. Written FAA ATPL
4. Flight prep and test
So far this is not a problem, who do I contact to confirm if the FAA will then put the 139 on my license???? Would like to get that sorted before I go through the rest of the process.....

[gulliBell]

So far this is not a problem, who do I contact to confirm if the FAA will then put the 139 on my license????.

I have already asked that question, when I hear back I will post info.

I would like to get AW139 on my license as well (I already have the license, but I don't have the type rating on a foreign license). So the whole question is of interest to me as well...

[ClementeCa]

You will have to get a atpl license first

[Demented]

Thanks gulli...

[tottigol]

It's a type rating aircraft for the FAA (above 12,500lbs), you are not going to get it on any FAA Licence unless you pass a checkride on it (or the simulator) administered by a FAA DPE with full endorsement of an FAA Instructor.

[Demented]

Hi tottigol, thanks.....that is what I was afraid of BUT......., I have been looking through the FAR AIM and according to part 61.75(c) "Aircraft ratings listed on a person's foreign license, in addition to any issued after testing under the provisions of this part, may be placed on that person's U.S pilot certificate". .???

[tottigol]

That would be on a FAA PPL issued on the basis of a Foreign License.
61.75 (c).5 states that you can use that for PPL privileges.
You won't be able to use it as an endorsement basis for the required ATPL privileges.

Under 61.75 they are only going to issue you a Private Pilot License.

[rick1128]

The FAA will transfer any type ratings you have on your ICAO certificates, however, they will only put the ones that are required in the US. So any helicopter that weights 12,500 pounds or less will not transfer. Once you pass the ATP ride all the type ratings on your Private Pilot certificate will automatically transfer over. The ATP and type ratings use the same standards as published in the ATP Practical Test Standards.

You can do the ATP ride and the type raid at the same time. They are the same checkride. To confirm you will need to talk with whatever facility you are going to use.

[gulliBell]

FAA has advised that it is not possible to transfer a type rating from a foreign pilot license to an FAA pilot license. You must fulfill the US requirements for the type rating.

[Demented]

I understand that it is not possible to tranfer a type rating to a FAA licence, but I have been told by different sources that if it is a new licence based on an ICAO/JAA licence whatever ratings you have on the ICAO/JAA licence will be on the initial issue. Going to take my chances in July/August and will let you know what happens. :)

[Sky451]

Where -Layfayette

When -maybe 2013

Maybe


Too little too late :ugh:

[tottigol]

Too little too late for what Sky451?

[rick1128]

Be careful of the advise you get from the FAA. At the FSDO level, many inspectors are not as knowledgeable as they should be. Your best source of information is the FSIM or document 8900.10. Thar handbook is the guidance material for all FAA Inspectors. From what I have read in it, the transfer of type ratings is possible.

[Demented]

@sky, no idea what you are on about. Thanks for help Rick, will keep you informed......

[tottigol]

Rick1128 SFSIM 8900.10 refers to the FARs.
Demented is in a particularly good position because he does not currently hold any FAA pilot licenses. He is however eligible under 61.153 to take an ATP examination under 61.155 and 61.157. If he takes that examination on a AW-139 helicopter or a AW-139 Full Flight Simulator, he shall have the coveted AW/AB-139 TR rating on it.

Otherwise NOT, end of it.:rolleyes:

[Sky451]

Apologies for not staying on topic in this thread

I was referring to.....

the AW 139 Simulator availability is sorely behind the pace of production/fielding this aircraft :ugh:
the simulator course costs are way out line with the aviation industry both rotary and fixed wing :ugh:

[rick1128]

FSIMS and the 8900.1 is not the FARs. It is the guidance the FSDOs are suppose to use for how to do their job and what the regulations really mean.

[Peter PanPan]

Rick & Demented check your PMs

[Demented]

Next question regarding the 139 on the FAA licence. Would having the Augusta factory refresher course help to get the 139 on a FAA licence?

[gulliBell]

Are they saying you need to take the 2hr ATP check-ride again to get the AW139 TR on the FAA pilot certificate? Did I read that correctly?

[Non-PC Plod]

Yes you need a check ride. It can be up to 3 hours, and it follows the same format as an ATP check ride.

[ATPMBA]

CAE in New Jersey and FSI do type ratings in the sim. Any idea what they cost is nowadays for those two training providers?

[gulliBell]

CAE in New Jersey and FSI do type ratings in the sim. Any idea what they cost is nowadays for those two training providers?

I believe it's in the order of $80k USD

[ted1]

Dem.... were you finally able to get the AW139 on your FAA ATP?

I am in a similar situation

1. An ICAO ATP with 139 type rating which was endorsed after factory training at Milan in 2010. Currently flying 139s.

2. Have a FAA pvt rotorcraft certificate of 2005, based on verification of ICAO ATP.

3. Want to do FAA knowledge test, medical and then a checkride on AW139 sim or heli with a DPE.

Is that an acceptable route? How did it work for you? Where did you do it?

Would appreciate inputs from Gulli, Tottigol and others too.

Thanks guys:)

[tottigol]

Ted, best solution for you is to take the ATP written , get scheduled for a 61.57/58 FAA recurrent and take an ATP add on on your check ride.
The ground school and the sim time shall be your endorsement for the type rating.

[ted1]

Hi Tottigol... . I had a look at eCFR 61.57/58. Don't understand how it would help since that pertains to recent flt experience and Proficiency check.
Could you please elaborate.
Considering that I am currently flying 139s on ICAO license, can't I just do the written followed by a DPE checkride for ATP and Type rating?

thanks

[Demented]

Ted, I gave up, couldn't get answers and did not have $$$ to waste....

[heliski22]

You can only use the Sim for a Type Rating Checkride at the end of a course of training for a Type Rating. You can't pitch up and book a Sim for a check only. This is not 139 specific but applies to other Types and Training Providers as well. Call FSI, for example, and ask, if you want.


To do it on the 139 helicopter itself, you must have completed training as required (can't remember the exact wording and don't have the FARs to hand), get a sign-off from a CFI and then a check with a DPE.


In theory, if you already have hours on Type, then the "Training" will be nominal, couple of hours to justify the sign-off from the CFI. However, you then have the logistical (and expensive) difficulty of getting an available 139, an available CFI and an available DPE all in the same place at more or less the same time. As any one of them on their own is as scarce as rocking horse ****, good luck with that!