Walter Mitty?

[A.Agincourt]

Check out Fly Siam - quite an extensive web prescence for someone purporting to operate out of Leicester. Rumour has it from the social scene at Leicester that this ex RAF failed wannabe has only just finished ground school and has not yet got a licence. Anyone got some decent info??

Best Wishes

[500e]

SSH :{ hope not
Quote
"If you wish to attend one of our Helicopter Career seminars"

[fluffy5]

Well it looks like just another wheeler and dealer trying to make some cash, by doing the extra marketing and charter services for helicentre aviation, he / she will get their little bit of cash once helicentre has got the punters cash.
Must admit that these guys are probably the best at marketing themselves to bring in students and the charter side will come, some interesting ideas they have to sell the 'Dream' , and it looks like it is working. There are still the typical profile of the 25 to 40 year old who wants to change his life and live the 'Dream', and if that means selling his house or getting a rather big bank loan, with the promise of an amazing career...... What could possibly go wrong :}

Fluffy

[SASless]

This sound familiar?

Silver State Helicopters - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_State_Helicopters)

[krypton_john]

It would appear to be some sort of facade in front of helicentre?

[A.Agincourt]

SASless - hmmmmm.....thanks for the link. Interesting, perhaps this person is aware of this and copying the format but I doubt it. You never know though eh?

Best Wishes

[helihub]

KryptonJohn - The "Legalities" section on this page (http://flysiam.co.uk/about-fly-siam/) specifcially states he is a front for Helicentre, but there are lots of charter brokers who do this sort of thing, so he's not unique. Quick internet search also finds


SiamShrinksYourBills.co.uk (http://www.SiamShrinksYourBills.co.uk/)
HowNotToLoseYourShirt.com (http://www.HowNotToLoseYourShirt.com/)
1,438 friends (http://www.facebook.com/siamkidd/friends) on a very unsecure Facebook page
Lots of different things listed in his LinkedIn profile (http://www.linkedin.com/pub/siam-kidd/27/400/a6a) - Helicopter Pilot, Commodity/Forex Trader and Gold/Silver Expert
Not from Leicester - Some profiles (eg LinkedIn or Blogger (http://www.blogger.com/profile/12998873206442573789)) say based Norwich, others say Kettering like this 4Networking group (http://www.4networking.biz/Events/Details/26106) that meets in the Premier Inn there
One of his YouTube videos (http://www.youtube.com/user/siamkidd) shows an Aston Martin with his private plate, although the plate is not on any car right now (thanks to Vehicle Search app on my iPhone)

Is there a way of determining which RAF Squadron he was attached to - all I can find is his commissioning as Acting Pilot Officer in November 2005 (http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/57893/supplements/1741/page.pdf) (his LinkedIn profile says he joined RAF January 2004, though?) and as member of an RAF Martial Arts team in 2007 (http://www.raf.mod.uk/rafmartialarts/teamsanddisciplines/tkdteam.cfm).

[fluffy5]

Yep, if I had a pound for every guy who was good at marketing, flash cars and many different fingers in pies that has come to play in the aviation civilian chater / training market, there have been many entertaining characters. Just hope this guy does not fall by the wayside that so many have, because it is quite a nice website.
Hey do you guys remember some of the first smooth talking bunch of marketers, aviation consultants in the Uk back in the 90's. They came across the first good story of live the 'Dream'. The good old PLH, the two Neil's that would hold seminars and career days, the foundation of why all the company's now follow their 'be a career helicopter pilot', if I remember rightly they just disappeared one day with a load of peoples cash.

Fluffy

[SASless]

Anyone becoming aware of some Fish heading towards the net might want to throw a few Rocks in the Pond in an effort to steer them away towards a more conventional route to Utopia in the Helicopter Industry.

To any Fish that are reading this Thread.....Always pay as you go....in Arrears....certainly not in advance by Lump Sum!

There are no Guarantee's in the Helicopter Industry beyond lots of Up's and Down's, lots of expense, way too little recompense, and a host of ways to get tripped up on your run to riches!

If it is Gold you seek....better you buy a Gold Pan and head to Skagway!

[ShyTorque]

To any Fish that are reading this Thread.....Always pay as you go....in Arrears....certainly not in advance by Lump Sum!

Seconded!

if they want your money in advance, it's an interest free loan - for them.

I booked some training, at a "northern" UK flying training school (one of the oldest established here), for a professional fixed wing licence. I was to be there for three weeks, living on site.

They wanted me to pay everything up front on the first day. I declined their kind offer. I immediately suspected they a cash flow problem.

Each subsequent Friday morning I got a phone call from the head of their accounts dept, asking me to clear my account. I did so, the same day, quite happily. This made me suspect even more that they had a cash flow problem.

Not long after I completed my training, they went under. I don't know if anyone got caught by paying up front and not receiving the training, but it wouldn't have been unusual if they had.

[ShyTorque]

Just been reading the website in more detail.

The Royal Air Force beckoned and he soon became one of the youngest Officers and trainee Pilots in the air force at the time and flew all sorts of aircraft small and large from pistons to jet powered and also helicopters.

Unless the RAF training has been cut down dramatically.... it stood out that all that was achieved in such a short time; at least two re-roles, too.

[Cylinder Head]

Quote:
"if they want your money in advance, it's an interest free loan - for them."

I couldn't agree more, if a flying school is encouraging you to put down funds in advance of providing training, there is an increased chance that they have cash flow issues. Your "loan" becomes more of a gift when they go BUST. Recent example: the scabs at Cranfield/ previously Elstree.

Stick to reliable schools who have a good track record and are prepared to let you pay as you fly. I used to go and look at a school's fleet, if it looks tidy, then they are probably maintaining their aircraft properly and not struggling to find cash. Such schools won't be the cheapest but what is a saving of £5 per hour if you lose £10,000?

[OvertHawk]

Seems like he's choosing his words carefully - "became one of the youngest officers and trainee pilots"... says nothing about ever being a qualified pilot. As for having "flown" lots of things - if you've held the stick once then you can claim to have flown it.

As for his claim that their "Plan B" service is unique - well that's just laughable - there are plenty of operators out there who will help their pax make alternative arrangements if they can't fly.

I wouldn't touch them with a barge pole
OH

[ShyTorque]

OvertHawk, yes, he's choosing his words carefully - so was I ... ;)

Bearing in mind the helicopter types on offer for charter, a 'Plan B' is needed in case it gets dark before you want to fly home.

[902Jon]

The Legalities…

Fly Siam is an independent aviation broker that uses various private jet and helicopter companies. Therefore Fly Siam does not offer services directly and is not connected to any particular AOC Holder. Fly Siam’s main priority is customer service and so we make extra efforts to source the best package for the customer whilst delivering our own special customer service on top of that.

Why would you go through a broker just for local pleasure flights? This appears to be the main target market he is aiming for, and using R22, R44 & Bell 206, he is hardly aiming for the high-end executive.

A very flash website with very little, apparently, to back it up.

[newfieboy]

If you're bored try the Robert Weaver/Skyferry thread on Bizjets/GA forum.I might be wrong, but some striking similarities here, 164 pages and growing....I'll leave anyone interested to read the whole story, but basically scamming people with the same type of stuff, mostly plank, but does also offer rotary.....excellent reading for a bored touring pilot.....anyways I'm off to pack for another tour early morn.....:(

[Buzzy Bee]

As a Flying School / FTO and I hope a well respected one, I would like to add to the thread and reply to Cylinder Head and Shy Torque.

While I understand that it may be perceived as risky to pay up front for training, whether it be the whole course, or blocks of ten hours etc, it does not necessarily mean that the flying school has cash flow problems.

We offer a discount if the student wishes to pay up front, this negates any accusation of the student providing the Flying School with an interest free loan. If a student pays up front it saves time and resource chasing payment.

IMPORTANTLY the student can also pay as you go, there is absolutely no pressure put on the student to pay up front.

We will however seek payment after each flight, as we have already been bitten by students who build up arrears who then disappear.

PLEASE DON'T TAR ALL FLYING SCHOOLS WITH THE SAME BRUSH !

[Cylinder Head]

Slightly off topic I admit, so mods feel free to start a new thread.

One of the problems at the small end of the industry is exactly the tendancy of third parties broking flying services and wanting to take too much of the available profit with no real risk. Whilst charter brokers operate on a reasonably consistent %, the trial lesson type products are all too often marketed by third party brokers such as experience voucher companies at unrealistic rates. I know of a couple of punters who managed to get a T/L £40 cheaper from the voucher company than the supplier was charging the Voucher company. Obviously they won't stay in business very long but this behaviour corrupts the market.

Letting brokers set the price artificially holds prices down to suit the voucher companies and prevents market prices from rising to reflect increasing costs. If voucher companies are not made to charge a premium over our operators' prices, returns to flying schools will continue to be eroded! Voucher companies used to add their profit on top of operator prices, now they want massive discounts and they set flying schools off against one another by claiming that each school is more expensive than the next.

[helicopter-redeye]

....Check out Fly Siam ....

Check out the grammar and spelling on the website.

Do the Royal Air Force really employ people with such a poor grasp of the Queen's English ?

[SASless]

Buzzy.....we are addressing our concerns to the newly started operation that seeks payment in total in advance for multiple licenses and which then promises good paying jobs post training.

There is a whale of a difference between well run business operations and one being promoted by a Snake Oil Salesman.

Silver State Helicopters was the prime example of the Snake Oil version....and might just be the model extant.

Buying a block of flight time.....say Ten Hours at a time is one thing....but a full course of instruction worth is a whole nut her thing.


Does the RAF have folks lacking Proper English.....well at one time several Squadrons of them....some of which were the high scorers in the downing of German Airplanes as I recall.....plus just more than a few who tripped across the Channel to Germany in bombers.

[John Eacott]

I'm surprised that an ex RAF pilot would have the audacity to allow himself to be seen thus:

http://www.eacott.com.au/gallery/d/4880-1/Fly+Siam.jpg

But maybe I'm old fashioned and don't see commercialisation of the wings badge as quite the right sort of thing to do?

[mini]

His address doesn't inspire confidence either...

22 Yaffle Cresent, Desborough, Northants, NN14 2GB - Google Maps (http://g.co/maps/3nq4q)

:sad:

[Camp Freddie]

I am guessing he was chopped from his RAF pilot course, I wonder at what stage ?

Edit: I guess I am wrong as he has his wings in the picture below, confused now ! All very odd

[goldeneaglepilot]

Words such as Ponzi and pyramid (Amway?) come to mind, I must admit his home address is rather modest for a Forex trader - that has made some money.


Ex Royal Air Force Pilot turned profitable Network Marketer looking for Driven and Motivated People (Glasgow)

Job Description

Im a partner with a successful major British Plc in the London Stock Market. Together we show households and Smes massive savings off all shopping petrol and essentials (energy telephony. Im looking for distributors to help sell our Award Winning services to the masses. The profits of this rare Part Time opportunity can be great however potential candidates Must Be driven and motivated Ambitious and keen on making good money Chatty and friendly Not have a criminal record Above all Serious about changing your life to escape the Rat Race I will be investing a lot of my time in training and mentoring you to success to the level I have reached therefore time-wasters will be ignored. Will only take on motivated people Serious about changing their financial life situation. Previous sales training Not required. To be considered applicants must state What is your No.1 priority Why that one Why is that important to you what are the consequences of not having it Does that worry you? Why What differs you from the many? If you answer my questions a Cv is optional. Regards Siam Kidd siamkidd aol.com

[fluffy5]

Yes this guy seems perfect marketing and sales in the civilian helicopter market.
" Yes Sir, this lovely second hand Augusta 109 was owned by one careful lady driver.......... That's right I will only take the deposit in cash ".

Fluffy

But honestly the guy that is pictured maybe a really nice guy, the above mentioned is mearley pointing out what can happen in this industry.

(is that enough of a disclaimer....)

[Bravo73]

Well, if everyone's going to have a go at this guy, how about this:

Siam Kidd - Ex RAF Pilot (http://www.siamshrinksyourbills.co.uk/) (for which the url is siamshrinksyourbills.c0.uk)

ABOUT ME
Hello there, my name is Siam and I was born and bred in Norwich, Norfolk. For the last 7 years, I've been busy on active duty as a Royal Air Force Pilot and over this time have flown over 10 different aircraft types ranging from small to large aircraft and even helicopters. I've travelled the world and seen and done many extraordinary things for which I feel very privileged.

About Me

http://2.bp.********.com/-CASrM3Ulq7E/TW02uEgq2nI/AAAAAAAAAAM/PzhJsqChHRE/s220/zn501579554_942227_5317.jpg (http://www.blogger.com/profile/12998873206442573789) Siam Kidd (http://www.blogger.com/profile/12998873206442573789) Half English, half Thai, born and raised in Norwich. Joined the RAF as soon as I got my A-Level results. Spent about 7 years in the air force as a pilot before leaving and setting up my own helicopter company in the civilian commercial sector. As well as having this part time business, I'm also a keen equity share and forex trader. Here's a stock tip: if you want to build up your own pension fund, don't rely on the state, invest into Telecom Plus. Look at it's history. Year on year growth combined with the board's passion to be here in 20 years...

[fluffy5]

I've read it, I want to shrink my bills, all helicopter pilots want to shrink something....
I wonder if they can do international bill shrinking, as I no longer reside in the Uk.


Fluffy

[itwasme]

According to his mate Jonathan Horswell (who says of himself "Whilst technically I don’t currently hold a Pilot’s licence (yet!), I have spent many thousands of hours flying in Gazelles, Squirrels, Augusta 109's, Jet Rangers and Robinson R22's"), our hero Siam also flew Harriers in the mob:

http://www.jonathanhorswell.com/

Scroll down for Siam's bit.

Loved the pic with granny - why on earth would you put that on a commercial website???? Have a look at the other pics on his site, looks like he was on the C-130J too....

He sure packed a lot into 6 or 7 years (he doesn't seem sure which it is, 6 or 7).

Oh I found this too - this guy is just so talented!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGa2sszKor0&feature=player_embedded

fast forward to 2min 20 secs.

[itwasme]

More great stuff, see here:

Torture Training? (http://www.4networking.biz/Forum/ViewTopic/113954#p879550)

Here's a taster:

"This may or may not interest you, but I've been told to travel around a bit with my 4 Sight. I'm rubbish at public speaking but I'm told it's a good 4Sight. I had a few waterworks in my last 4Sight when I touched on Afghan (to my embarrassment) so I may or may not chat about it....

It's called 'Unconscious at 600mph' and I'll basically be giving an insight into RAF Fast Jet Pilot Combat Escape/Evasion Survival & Torture training, Gravitational Loss of Consciousness, will dispel a few myths and put a business spin on at the end."

I guess that must have been from his harrier time then?

[SASless]

Siam Kidd Inc!

You can't make this stuff up!

Is this a party name tag he should be wearing?

Enjoys "Snooker" too!

[goldeneaglepilot]

He does seem very proud to wear his flying suit with his name badge!! I bet at a party you would have no problem working out who was the pilot in the room.

I do wonder why he left the RAF after only seven years - perhaps redunancy?

It does make you wonder why he has not gone in pusuit of commercial flying? Perhaps Forex trading seminars will make him more money. Perhaps he aspires to be like Greg Secker The Flying Trader (http://www.theflyingtrader.org/)


THE LIFE OF GREG SECKER

Master trader, entrepreneur, philanthropist and international speaker are just a few of the terms used to describe Greg Secker. A multi-millionaire by his twenties, Greg has gone on to create and run one of England's most successful companies and blazed a path for the everyday-man in the street to walk towards financial freedom. Greg is proud to own Europe's top trader coaching company and is passionate about helping people learn how to be entrepreneurs.
Greg's History

Greg's career began in Thomas Cook Financial services. He then moved over to the foreign exchange business to run a brand new business entitled the Virtual Trading Desk™. VTD was the first online real-time Forex trading platform, allowing customers to receive real-time quotes for huge foreign exchange transactions. His career quickly soared and at the age of 25, Greg was a Vice President at Mellon Financial Corporation, then a major Fortune 500 investment bank in the United States (not bad going for a man in his early twenties.) Here he was lucky enough to be working around some of the very best traders in the world - with exclusive access working with high-powered Forex traders every single day.
Using the very same trading strategies discovered on his travels around international trading floors, Greg's personal trading account grew to the extent where it allowed him to make a choice. Leave or Stay? Already a now wealthy man, Secker decided to retire as vice-president of firm Mellon Financial Corporation at the age of just 27 to set up a trading floor from his home. In just 3 short months from officially retiring, Knowledge to Action was born.
Knowledge to Action

In the past 8 years, more than 90,000 people have attended Knowledge to Action's various trading seminars and workshops, where they learn how to produce a second or replacement income trading the stock and currency markets.
With offices in the London and Sydney and partners in Singapore and America, Knowledge to Action employs 150 people worldwide. The companies' meteoric success has been recently highlighted in the 2009 National Business Awards as a finalist for growth and innovation.
They went on to pick up a prized finalist position in the 2010 London Excellence Awards, and most recently claimed 49th place in the 2010 Sunday Times Fast Track 100 Awards- a Sunday Times initiative co-sponsored by Virgin that recognizes UK's Fastest growing companies.
Greg has always loved speed and as a young boy he was an exceptional sprinter and a daredevil rally car driver, a passion that still remains firmly a part of his boyish character. A sneak peak into his garage complete with Lamborghini's Murcielago SV and an Aston Martin DBS will confirm this.
Greg lives in London with his partner, Katherine and their son Zac.

Most people prefer a nice office to trade, not Greg - he prefers a R44...

[itwasme]

More priceless stuff here:

The Awesome Norwich North Meeting of Wed 11 May! (http://www.4networking.biz/Forum/ViewTopic/94667#p749045)

"Yeah, another great meeting as usual! I think Siam pretty much stole the show in the crazy story stakes this week; "so here I am with my Walther PPK and a fully armed harrier jump jet..." Sounds like the begining of a Bond movie"

Oh, and a little presentation explaining what looks very much like a pyramid selling scheme...

Ex RAF Pilot turned Network Marketer (http://www.siamexplainsthemoney.co.uk/)

[siamkidd]

FAO Pprune users in this thread,

This thread has recently come to my attention and was quite shocked of what I found. I haven't used pprune in years as in the past I found that opinions are very quickly made from rumours/hearsay etc. And some very decent individuals have had their reputations wrongly tarnished. Now I'm very aware that your opinions of me have already been made and there
will be little difference that this post will make, but I thought it's necessary for me to lay out all the facts. I'll try my best to cover all the points mentioned, so here goes.

1.) There were a couple of mentions about Helicentre Aviation and so this is a point I feel I really must make clear. Fly Siam is NOT a front for Helicentre. Fly Siam is simply and only an aviation broker. Fly Siam is not an operator of any sorts, has no AOC etc. Helicentre is a fine helicopter company with all legal creditations in place like AOCs etc and has been around for a very long time. And because Helicentre is well known for being a good operator, I chose to use Helicentre to fulfil potential helicopter charters or any other form of helicopter flying etc. I'm not affiliated with them in any way, I would just use them to pass on helicopter queries etc. So to clarify, Fly Siam is an independent broker and Helicentre is a fully authorised operator. And I genuinely hope that this thread hasn't caused any bad publicity for them as they don't deserve it.

2.) It seems as though a few of you have googled me etc and found lots of odd connections so let's lay the facts out. In a nut shell, I got my A level results and somehow managed to get in the air force in the pilot branch. I've never been the most academic of types, but I compensate in hard work. Anywho, I was unfortunate and got re roled twice and then eventually found myself in the intelligence community which has happened a lot recently. After a year or so I PVR'd and left the air force as I wasn't happy and really needed to fly. I'm not the best pilot in the world, and not the worst but like all of you here, flying is my passion. I love it and quickly found myself out of the mob with no main income stream and I wasn't flying. So in order to not waste 6/7 years training, I decided to try and convert licences etc and try and become a helo pilot of some sort. Instructor or off shore, I really didn't care. So I got my PPL(H) and started hour building for the cpl as you do and as I got down the line I found out that I could simply set up a broker type company and that by doing this, it would help with becoming VAT registered. And so after speaking to lots
of different pilots, I discovered that everyone had their own 'company of some sort' and one of the things HMRC like to see in order to be approved etc is to see a website or receipts of sales made etc. So I did just that. But due to my enthusiasm or eagerness and commercial type mind, I thought that if I was going to do this, I may as well do it properly, so I got a good website made and started putting the word out there on and offline that I could offer all of these services through brokering etc and earn some form of income which would help with hour building n whatnot. Yes I'm a failed pilot. But at least I've got on with my life and tried to follow my passions. Why does everyone keep rubbing it in my face? People make mistakes and I was young, still am, but I learn from my mistakes and move on. And I'm also of the belief that if you do something, you do it right, so I really wish to do good things with Fly Siam. One of my goals was to one day become an operator in my own right with an AOC/FTO etc. And I'd hire or help out lots of chopped or retiring military pilots as the transition from military to civvy is hard!

3.) I also hope you don't feel like I'm a conman of some sort either due to the different types of websites you've found. Basically, after leaving the air force, I read the book Rich Dad Poor Dad by robert Kiyosaki and that completely transformed my mindset. I realised that in the air force I was simply trading time in exchange for money. And that 95% of the population does that as well. It was really eye opening. And the book shows the benefits of passive/residual/royalty type incomes. So you earn money whether you work or not, just like royalties on a book etc. So I promised myself never to end up in a situation whereby I ever relied on just one income stream. I became an advocate of income diversification and set out to earn at least 5 small income streams.

4.) The websites siamgivesyoufreedom.com and siamshrinksyourbills.co.uk relate to my Telecom Plus part time business. They deliver the UK's cheapest telecoms and energy and for every customer I get, I get roughly £30 one off commission, and I then earn about 3.5% of that customer's monthly utility bill which equates to £5 per
customer per month. So 100 customers = £500 per month. So no, it's not a dodgy scam or pyramid scheme. It's a FTSE 250 company which is the Best Telecommunications PLC 2 years running in the London Stock Market Awards and has dozens of Which Magazine awards.

5.) The website HowNotToLoseYourShirt.com is a very new site which is still undergoing development. It's simply a membership website where one with zero knowledge of the financial markets can learn how to become a competent investor. Yes I have made money on forex and trading in general. But I have also lost lots of money. And that's the main reason for my HowNotToLoseYourShirt.com. I can help people to not make my mistakes and also speed up ones learning. Plus there are a lot of things happening in the financial world at the mo and a non jargon using way of explaining it would help a lot of people.

6.) One of you mentioned that my address of Desborough doesn't inspire confidence. I'm originally from Norwich and have recently moved to the Midlands and that address is simply a logistical move. I figured that if I was going to have any success of doing this aviation broker business, I
may as well relocate with my girlfriend and set up somewhere central and busy. Norwich has a rubbish geographical catchment area and Desborough is great. Half an hour from Northampton and Leicester and half an hour from Helicentre where I was hour building. Plus central to
London/Birmingham/Cheltenham etc. It's also right on the A14 so ideal for when I go back to Norfolk every fortnight! And someone mentioned that it's a very modest area for a forex trader...well the area I live in is very nice thanks and I live in a brand new 3 story house with 4 bedrooms. So for just my girlfriend and I, it's perfect. She gets to have her own dressing room and I get to have a man room/office.

7.) Now in hindsight, looking at all of the stuff this thread has pulled up on me, I was probably over zealous in my marketing. I didn't know what I was doing, it was my first conventional business and so I thought if I used the
ex RAF tag it would help and I just got on with it. I just plastered Fly Siam all over the net, did networking meetings and all sorts and trying my hardest to make things work. I have NEVER set out to do anyone any harm or to try and scam people out of their money and I've never bitched about anyone. Even people that slag me off behind my back. All of my part time income streams are ALL based on helping people. Whether it's helping ones health, saving money on bills, helping people make money etc. Yes I over egged my marketing/advertising etc. And I cringe upon all of it. Very much so! And it's a shame google stores everything! But I'm
always learning and I've played down my air force career for a while now. None of my new friends even know I used to be in the air force. And it's just disappointing to read the comments in this thread because I also believe in Kharma, but I don't think I've ever done anything to deserve this

slating. Just a shame that people love jumping on a bandwagon to put someone down that they don't even know. Well, I haven't got a scooby if this post makes any difference to your views. But if you take away one thing from this, just note that Helicentre has never done anything wrong. It's a fine company and I somehow feel really guilty that they've been dragged into all of this.

Oh well, if you ever meet me in person, please say hello regardless. I'm really not the egotistical Tom Cruise wannabe Walter Mitty I've been painted as!

Anywho, have a good day and happy flying.

P.S. Just read the last post....I have never mentioned I flew with a PPK in a bombed up jet....bloody hell people...

[goldeneaglepilot]

At least he's a little more open than the likes of Weaver or Zaffar Khan:

The Legalities…
Fly Siam is currently a registered reseller for Helicentre Aviation based at Leicester. Helicentre is JAR-FCL fully approved, FTO/TRTO (UK/FTO-194) and holds a CAA registered Air Operators Certificate. Therefore Fly Siam will be operating within the umbrella of their AOC. (AOC number GB2236).

Just read Siam's latest post - I take my hat off to him for his honesty in his post.

Might be an idea though Siam to look at taking a few of the postings from the past down - it does not generate the impression you might want to portray in business.

[Horror box]

Good post Siam. Good on you for showing up and good luck. Just stop saying "anywho" - it will definitely hinder your career prospects:ok:

[siamkidd]

Many thanks guys.

I have been trying desperately to remove things from google but there are lots of thing you cannot delete.

Today hasn't been a good day.

[itwasme]

"And I cringe upon all of it. Very much so! And it's a shame google stores everything! But I'm always learning and I've played down my air force career for a while now. None of my new friends even know I used to be in the air force."

Shame we didn't see this post you made on Monday of this week then:

Brand new team in 4N Kettering! (http://www.4networking.biz/Forum/ViewTopic/118802#p908396)

"On a different note, doing my last 4Sight tomorrow at Nottingham...talking about Afghan and torture training is eating me up inside a bit! Will be doing a new one soon...."

We could all have popped along to give you some moral support on the last date of your "Afghan and Torture training" tour last night. Is it available on Youtube? Would love to see it!

Google's a bugger, ain't it?

[ShyTorque]

Siam, good on you for your honesty and good luck to you, in all sincerity.

However, you have now asked folk not to "rub it in" about your RAF history, which it now appears you are actually slightly embarrassed about. No need to be, others have tried and it hasn't gone exactly to plan and they've moved on.

Unfortunately, the aviation world is full of ex-military pilots who can, and will detect any whiff of 'BS', because, like it or not, they are experts in that environment.

One thing I would strongly advise is never to attempt to display your RAF wings badge in a commercial way (for no other reason that almost all others don't and so doing that makes you stand out "in a certain way", perhaps the total opposite of what you had envisaged). ;)

[A.Agincourt]

This thread has recently come to my attention and was quite shocked of what I found. I haven't used PPRuNe in years


Given that you have not used this forum for years, I wonder what - or who - drew your attention to this thread. Not that that matters much, it was a definate possibility wasn't it?

Well done for your post I think there are a few lessons to learn as a result of this 'interlude'.

ShyTorque:One thing I would strongly advise is never to attempt to display your RAF wings
badge in a commercial way (for no other reason that almost all others don't and
so doing that makes you stand out "in a certain way", perhaps the total opposite
of what you had envisaged). http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/wink2.gif

To expand on this comment/advice - many of us value the award of a flight brevet. It represents a considerable degree of effort for most. None would 'trash' that treasure - that is none who were of the right stuff. To do so certainly does not send the right message.

I wish you good fortune in your 'non-job' and hopefully not at some others un warranted expense.

Best Wishes

[ShyTorque]

Pinkfin, I meant the honesty of posting here on the forum.

[212man]

To expand on this comment/advice - many of us value the award of a flight brevet. It represents a considerable degree of effort for most. None would 'trash' that treasure - that is none who were of the right stuff. To do so certainly does not send the right message.

Whilst not condoning the wearing of them in the way he has done, I think it's worth pointing out that they are awarded somewhat earlier these days than in the past, and that they are almost certainly properly 'earned.' Clearly some of his in-service photos imply they are entirely legitimate.

[[email protected]]

You may be awarded wings at the end of AFT but you are not allowed to keep them if you do not make it to an operational Sqn - I believe this is still the case as it always was.

Unless Siam had his wings confirmed (usually 6 months or CR) he should not wear them or claim to be an ex-RAF pilot - by his own admission he is a 'failed pilot'. Perhaps a little more detail on his service career is required.

I, like many others, treasured the award of wings and hate to see poseurs like this devaluing them.

Siam, I think your 'honesty' in posting here to clear the air is nothing more than a cynical attempt at damage limitation and, while you are continuing to trade on things like CAC and Afghanistan, you will continue to attract negative feedback.

BTW, in your philanthropic outlook on business, how does you taking a commission and a percentage from consumers' utility bills reduce their costs?

[SASless]

I once worked for an outfit that made us wear USAF wings on our pickle suits.

That was a huge source of embarrassment to me as I felt wearing military wings on a civilian flight suit was inappropriate....and personally insulting as I was an Army Pilot.

A point to be considered.....it is not the fact you earned the Wings ...but what you did with them after you got them that matters. Until you have gone "Down Town" so to speak....you were just in training and have not put them to use for what they are designed for.

There are all sorts of Wannabee's....and the definition varies by who is setting the terms of the definition so we should all be a bit careful about holding our nose's well up into the rain. If one kicks that fuss off....there's going to be some very ruffled feathers in the Hen House.

[P6 Driver]

That was a huge source of embarrassment to me as I felt wearing military
wings on a civilian flight suit was inappropriate....and personally insulting as
I was an Army Pilot.




I don't personally knock those who do wear their wings on civilian flight suits, but it's not just this chap who is doing it - have a look in the Air Ambulance/Police flying community!

[SilsoeSid]

I don't personally knock those who do wear their wings on civilian flight suits, but it's not just this chap who is doing it - have a look in the Air Ambulance/Police flying community!


What is wrong with wearing a set of wings, on a flying suit when you are on flying duty, that you are entitled to wear in perpetuity and that you are proud to wear?

[Arm out the window]

If it's anything like our situation down under, I've always been of the understanding that RAAF wings are part of the uniform, and therefore to wear them as part of some cobbled-up civvy garb is wrong*.



*The exception being Anzac Day, where I will feel fully justified in wearing them plus medals on my jacket when I'm playing two-up in the pub and swilling grog like there's no tomorrow.

[cladosporangium]

Sid has got it right, Brit Army wings are awarded "in perpetuity", I remember reading that in Queen's Regs...... I got 'em on everything, including jim-jams. :rolleyes:

I'll get my coat...

[Horror box]

As proud as I was to be an army pilot and receive my wings (even though i did tic-toc march up to collect them, much to everyones amusement), the day I took off my uniform for the last time was the last day I wore them. Not everyone in the civilian world is pleased to see you flashing your military pride in their faces! Rules and regs aside, I just find it a bit naff. Different roles might be a bit different, but in the offshore world, it just seems a bit OTT. You have got to move on. Nothing wrong with being proud of you past but people soon get sick of the old "when I was in the army/airforce/navy" lines and you just look like a washed up has been. If you really need to continue to wear old bits of uniform then do it at home or do what i do and just sew your wings onto your under-crackers.

[P6 Driver]

SilsoeSid & cladosporangium,

Just to be clear - I have no problem with wings of any kind being worn. If you re-read my post, it was a quote from another poster I was referring to.
:ok:

[SilsoeSid]

No worries P6, I got it first time round :)


Horror box,
I guess offshore they would be a bit naff, especially if you had to ditch and the water started to seep through the stitching :ugh:
Don't remember ever wearing wings on a green immersion suit, beside the vest would have hidden them :roll eyes:

Anyway, I hear what you say and will seriously consider replacing my military wings with these;

http://jakespilotshop.com/images/T/helicopterpilotwings.jpg

In the meantime I will continue to wear my AFB, Why?...because I can. After all as I said earlier, on the ground I don't want to be mistaken as someone I am not :ok:

p.s. Even non exmil in the police/ambo role wear wings :p

[itwasme]

Thread drift alert!

The point here seems to be that it's questionable whether Mr Kidd is entitled to his wings (ie was he ever CR?), does he even hold a professional licence to fly? He likes to wear four bars on his suit too!

He gives presentations on sensitive subjects, purporting to be something he is not whilst at the same time coming on here and trying to pull the wool over our eyes and expressing remorse.

Google is not your friend Siam Kidd, but it is very good at indexing
PPRuNe.org

[SASless]

If one is going to wear Wings to be proud of.....certainly these qualify!


Not for Rotorheads they don't!

SP

[Savoia]

I still do not appreciate why the character in this story felt it was necessary to create the impression that he was something which he is not - most adults understand that such actions only result in tears.

If he desperately wanted to don a pair of wings he could have considered one of several half-wing badges available for ground crew, perhaps within the context of his management role in the operation of his charter effort etc.

http://www.anaspides.net/images/anaspides_net/military/aviation_wings/civilian_wings/w78_rfsd_half_wing.jpg
The half-wings worn by ground-based members of the Royal Flying Doctors Service Down Under (1980's)

Cladosporangium: Please can you post an image of your winged pyjamas!

[500e]

http://i1.cpcache.com/product/549979715/winged_foot_hermes_symbol_pajamas.jpg?color=WithPinkPant&height=460&width=460:E
all ready got the hat & coat

[newfieboy]

Think a pair of Women's Auxilary Balloon Corp wings would be the bees knees on my flight suit......;)anyone know where I could find a set....

[Ricorigs]

I know Siam and I am qualified military aircrew although not RAF. (Thank god!)
I'm a bit disappointed he has had such rough criticism.

I think that him trading on his award of RAF wings is entirely fair. He did achieve the temporary award albeit without reaching limited combat ready status. He has something to be proud of and if entering the aviation industry why not market his award?!

In the time I knew him, personally and at a very difficult time on a difficult course Siam was never dishonest and he is just trying to get on in life at a difficult time. You trade with what you've got.

Best of luck Siam.

[ShyTorque]

RAF rules in my time were that the flying badge could only be retained upon reaching CR status on a squadron. Until then, in effect, it's worn only a probationary basis.

One of my colleagues through training failed to reach CR and he eventually re-mustered to the education branch. He was no longer allowed to wear his wings. Very disappointing for him but that was the rule. As far as I know, this rule hasn't changed.

If Siam didn't reach CR, then he's not entitled to wear RAF wings, Endex. To do so is dishonest.

[Trojan1981]

If it's anything like our situation down under, I've always been of the understanding that RAAF wings are part of the uniform, and therefore to wear them as part of some cobbled-up civvy garb is wrong*.
*The exception being Anzac Day, where I will feel fully justified in wearing them plus medals on my jacket when I'm playing two-up in the pub and swilling grog like there's no tomorrow.

Yes, I always thought this would be illegal in Australia. I have certainly never worn my military brevets on my civy uniform! though I do occasionally wear my old, de-badged jacket. Imagine wearing your parachute wings as well!

If he desperately wanted to don a pair of wings he could have considered one of several half-wing badges available for ground crew, perhaps within the context of his management role in the operation of his charter effort etc

Really? Flight Nurses, Paramedics and Aircrewmen/Loadmasters are awarded half-wing brevets for their qualifications. Why should non-flying personnel wear them?

Siam, thanks for your honest post.

[Ricorigs]

Actually I am not so confident that it is endex actually. I know in the Army that the receipt and wearing of wings commences before you are qualified on type.

I have seen numerous failed jet pilots wearing wings whilst on multi or rotary conversion.

I don't believe it was dishonest of Siam to wear them if he was awarded them even if only probationary. It wasnt entirely upfront but it is a business page why broadcast you never made LCR? He was awarded probationary wings he achieved that therefore wear them.

[itwasme]

Ricorigs,

you joined yesterday.

Do you think we were all born yesterday Siam?

You've been trying to delete your internet trail, don't forget your tw!tter pic...

Twitter (http://twitter.com/#!/siamkidd)

[goldeneaglepilot]

I love Siam's finely developed palate.... (NOT)

From his tw1tter page


Siam Kidd‏@siamkidd Just made a coronation chicken and corned beef ommelette. Doused with ketchup it's not too bad actually...:)

[Ricorigs]

Ha I am not Siam.

I know him and a few others on here.

But I love your thirst for conspiracy.

[ShyTorque]

Ricorigs, you obviously don't understand the rules either. :=

During my pilot training, RAF "wings" were awarded after successfully graduating basic flying training school (BFTS). Post grad students were then entitled to wear them at AFTS, on the OCU and also onto their first operational squadron. However, pilots were not entitled to retain the wings badge (as in wear them afterwards) if not successfully achieving Combat Ready status. I think there was a time limit on this, too, either 6 or 9 months. If a pilot couldn't subsequently achieve CR (hopefully he could with further training) then he was suspended, or removed from further flying as pilot i.e. chopped. However, if he was re-roled to another type of aircraft and successfully achieved CR on another squadron, then no problem whatsoever with keeping the flying badge.

In 1977, due to the high subsequent "chop rate", pilot wings were not awarded until after AFTS. I was at RAF Linton on Ouse when the change occurred (before we completed the BFTS course; we trainee pilots and those on subsequent courses had to wait another 18 months or so).

P.S. I've used the past tense because it's quite some years since I was wearing RAF wings but I'm certain the rules on this will not have changed. I've never worn RAF wings since leaving the service, even though I do still fly for a living.

[Anthony Supplebottom]

Question:

I don't have a Tw1tter account but I just wanted to know - was Tw1tter created specifically with twits in mind?

[Ivor Fynn]

Ricorigs and Siam,

The bottom is Siam is not entitled to wear RAF wings, furthermore he is breaking the law if he is using them on a flying suit to advertise. The rules haven't changed if you don't crack CR and are removed from Trg/Sqn you loose the right to wear them.

Ivor

[Whirlygig]

Breaking the law? Really? Better get the police round then or start a civil law suit against the guy.

I'm not entitled to wear my late grandfather's OBE ... but I do. Better send the police round to mine after. :}

Cheers

Whirls

[goldeneaglepilot]

I must admit having looked at Siam attending his business networking meeting wearing a flight suit I do wonder...

Perhaps he watched Topgun and was impressed. I am not suggesting that Siam is Gay, but there are certain quarters where the wearing of such clothes does suggest something "special" when worn outside a working enviroment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfbjUmG8zGk&start=40

[AnFI]

goldie - fantastic!
so it was the crabs all along!
AND the moustaches !!!! - it all makes sense now - tally ho chaps !

so these 'wings' ( ;) ) Siam is wearing have a deeper significance then?
in that case i don't think it's fair to mock anyone for wearing RAF wings if THAT is what they are trying to show - even if they weren't strictly speaking fully 'initiated' - he wants to 'identify' with the moustachiod types then why not?

no idea who he is but leave him alone, let the guy try and survive, it ain't easy out there ... denied a pension for life and protection from the harsh reality of commercial survival he's 'having a go' - show the guy some slack

[ShyTorque]

I'm sure that anyone with sufficient intelligence to wish to become a successful financial adviser would also wish to show the highest standards of personal integrity and honesty.

:suspect:

[ralphmalph]

Shy,

I think that things may be different these days. The big point in a pilots career these days is completion of a Conversion To Type course.

Thats when flying pay, reckonable service and tour lengths are worked from.

CR is so varied and is only applicable to a specific skill set required for an Operation (Afghansitan, Libya etc) It is no longer a "one size fit all" status as a pilot.

Back in the day someone became CR.......then was always CR. Not right in my mind!

[ShyTorque]

Thats when flying pay, reckonable service and tour lengths are worked from.

Was it ever different?

.....about the flying badge, though, someone should be in a position to find the relevant rule.

[A.Agincourt]

ShyTorque: I'm sure that anyone with sufficient intelligence to wish to become a successful financial adviser would also wish to show the highest standards of personal integrity and honesty.Oh yes indeed!! Perhaps we should introduce him to the Directors of Longmint. I am sure he'll get along just fine. He might learn a thing or two after all he is at the start of the game and they are at the end [sticky]:}

Best Wishes

[Thomas coupling]

Siam - you poor bugger - lamb to the slaughter once Pprune gets its teeth into you. There are some dogged posters on here that won't leave any stone unturned to get to the bottom of it all. RIP.

PS: I seem to recall the wives of us venerable naval aviators were allowed to wear miniature wings on their posh frocks at functions...does that mean they were impersonating the Gods too? Have mercy on them as they know not what they do.......:E

[goldeneaglepilot]

A little bird told me that persons close to Siam have been very upset about this thread and want it to go away....

Why does he not fight his own battles? Perhaps his skills with a keyboard match his skills in the kitchen.... Coronation chicken and corned beef, when did they serve that in the Mess or was that on his E&E course?

Perhaps the reason he has not fought back was that the military did teach him one thing - the ability to withstand someone taking the p1ss out of him. Black humour can be very cruel.

[A.Agincourt]

Thomas coupling: PS: I seem to recall the wives of us venerable naval aviators were allowed to wear miniature wings on their posh frocks at functions...
Cannot speak for fish heads mate but pongo's have one. A small gold broach for the ladies.

Best Wishes

[A.Agincourt]

goldeneaglepilot: A little bird told me that persons close to Siam have been very upset about this thread and want it to go away....Unless 'persons close' bother to read these forums, then I see no problem with them just getting on as if nothing has happened. I doubt Siam will go about telling everyone - hmmmm or would he?
Why does he not fight his own battles? Perhaps his skills with a keyboard match his skills in the kitchen.... Coronation chicken and corned beef, when did they serve that in the Mess or was that on his E&E course? You can only fight if you have something to fight about and/or with. He has neither.
Perhaps the reason he has not fought back was that the military did teach him one thing - the ability to withstand someone taking the p1ss out of him. Black humour can be very cruel. For some the 'black humour might be the interest here but for others - well I suspect a slightly less generous attitude about the matter. You go into any industry/work place/environment and start 'gobbing off' and this is exactly what you will get as a minimum. It could be worse, I'd keep a low profile until everyone gets bored.

Best Wishes

[goldeneaglepilot]

A.Againcourt

I totally agree with your thoughts, his action are disrespectful and egotistical to say the least. To try to use his Military service to give some respectability and credibility to his business ventures was not bright.

To quote one thing you said (which in my opinion is good advice)

I'd keep a low profile until everyone gets bored.

[SASless]

To try to use his Military service to give some respectability and credibility to his business ventures was not bright.

I shall keep that quote for the next time I hear something about CFS or a reference to prior military service from anyone when said reference is made to validate some claim to contributory experience. Or...would that be seen as unfair?

It is not the mere claim that has urked some but the extent of the claim as I see it. Point out the false statements if you can document your allegation. Working off "my memory", "it used to be..." and that kind of comment is fraught with peril I would think as one might just be caught off base if one somehow misstates the situation for what ever reason.

There are some very tall horses in the paddock recently. As in most anonymous mob scenes....some things are said that in private and personal venues would not be said.

Simply put....."Cool your Jets, Ace(s)!"

[goldeneaglepilot]

I feel that had he had a long and distinquished service in the Military then it would have been fair to refer to it. But....

And to parade around at networking meetings in a flying suit.....

[Jarvy]

Most on here seem to be forgetting that his website is not meant for us, its aimed at Joe Public who believe that because of his 'sevice' he will provide a better sevice.
So is he just trying to over sell himself or is it an attempt to mislead the public? He is neither the first or last to do this within the helicopter world.

[goldeneaglepilot]

Perhaps if we look back at the thread and reflect the wording on the Flysiam website:


In the beginning

Siam Kidd was born and bred in Norwich, Norfolk where he soon knew he belonged in the air. Singled out as one of the Top 5 Air Cadets in the country and winning a string of RAF Flying Scholarships, he flew solo for the very first time soon after his 16th Birthday. The Royal Air Force beckoned and he soon became one of the youngest Officers and trainee Pilots in the air force at the time and flew all sorts of aircraft small and large from pistons to jet powered and also helicopters.
On the ground, he undertook a number of special duties including an 8 month detachment to the Ministry of Defence working very closely with MPs and Senior Generals, but never lost his passion for flying.
During his 6-7 years in the air force he gained many various skills for life and for flying as well as traveling around the world and also doing some rather exciting flying. He says aerobatics and formation flying is something everyone must experience at least once in their lives.
A self-confessed adrenaline junkie, his favourite hobbies are Skeleton Bobsleigh, Martial Arts, Sky diving and bungee jumping.
Fly Siam Aviation Services

Brought up in a close knit family of entrepreneurs, now out of the air force, he is focusing his 2 passions (flying and business) into a premiere aviation company dedicated to providing top quality service at affordable prices. Fly Siam specialises in everything helicopter related, but excels in winning business for other businesses using helicopters. As a private jet broker, any destination in the world is now achievable. Fly Siam will eventually branch out into formation and aerobatics experience flights, so watch this space!

And then if we look at his own post on this thread:

2.) It seems as though a few of you have googled me etc and found lots of odd connections so let's lay the facts out. In a nut shell, I got my A level results and somehow managed to get in the air force in the pilot branch. I've never been the most academic of types, but I compensate in hard work. Anywho, I was unfortunate and got re roled twice and then eventually found myself in the intelligence community which has happened a lot recently. After a year or so I PVR'd and left the air force as I wasn't happy and really needed to fly. I'm not the best pilot in the world, and not the worst but like all of you here, flying is my passion. I love it and quickly found myself out of the mob with no main income stream and I wasn't flying. So in order to not waste 6/7 years training, I decided to try and convert licences etc and try and become a helo pilot of some sort. Instructor or off shore, I really didn't care. So I got my PPL(H) and started hour building for the cpl as you do and as I got down the line I found out that I could simply set up a broker type company and that by doing this, it would help with becoming VAT registered. And so after speaking to lots
of different pilots, I discovered that everyone had their own 'company of some sort' and one of the things HMRC like to see in order to be approved etc is to see a website or receipts of sales made etc. So I did just that. But due to my enthusiasm or eagerness and commercial type mind, I thought that if I was going to do this, I may as well do it properly, so I got a good website made and started putting the word out there on and offline that I could offer all of these services through brokering etc and earn some form of income which would help with hour building n whatnot. Yes I'm a failed pilot. But at least I've got on with my life and tried to follow my passions. Why does everyone keep rubbing it in my face? People make mistakes and I was young, still am, but I learn from my mistakes and move on. And I'm also of the belief that if you do something, you do it right, so I really wish to do good things with Fly Siam. One of my goals was to one day become an operator in my own right with an AOC/FTO etc. And I'd hire or help out lots of chopped or retiring military pilots as the transition from military to civvy is hard!

[grumpytroll]

reconsidered.

cheers

[Trojan1981]

I don't see anything sensational or particularly misleading in the above quote from Siam. He was a trainee RAF pilot. He was entitled to wear wings for a time. Now he is out there is no real issue with him trading on that. Sure, wearing a flight suit to networking meetings (complete with RAF wings) is a bit naff (maybe unlawful wrt the wings) but that's his descision to make. I know plenty of less credible, more qualified ex-military aircrew!

This thread seems to have run it's course in terms of new content.

[goldeneaglepilot]

Perhaps that year was not a good year for air cadets?

Singled out as one of the Top 5 Air Cadets in the country

[lowfat]

As a former member of Her Majesties Armed Services I personally have nothing but contempt for fraudsters masquerading as things they are not .
Stereotypical is the philandering " Major" or "Squadron Leader" who charm all the ladies then run off with wads of cash.

Is Siam any different from the above ? Actually no because he is misrepresenting himself.

However you chaps who rightly chose to wear your hard earned wings after leaving Her Majesties servitude.Should look at the fields of spotters and window lickers at airshows all in flying suites and winged up,the objects of much ridicule and derision.

Just because you can wear them doesn't mean you should. It also doesn't make you look any less of a prat....

That was then now move on.

[newfieboy]

It annoys me also on fires here. We have fire bosses, line bosses, sector bosses, helitak crews, in some provinces all wear the 'WINGS' proudly..... :ugh:and love to show them off.....if only they knew how much the real aircrew are taking the piss......:D. On one particular bird towing job, I even had the system operator in the back all dressed up like a topgun ace with flightsuit a la wings and bars....oh how we laughed......he never did realise why..:ok:

[Ricorigs]

I feel Siam has been getting a rough ride unnecessarily.

I am currently serving and know the rules for my service right now and not from 1977. As we all reside in the joint tri-service world I don't see the issue but as I said I'm not in the RAF so I can't claim what the exact rules are for the junior service. If he was pongo I don't believe he would be doing anything unlawful by advertising his previous service by wearing pre-LCR wings if he was awarded them.

My effort was simply to defend someone who I thought was harshly treated.

I guess for certain individuals on here I will agree to disagree.

But you are wrong!:E

[Gordy]

Yo Newfie...

I got me some of these, thinking about stitching them to my fire shirt:

http://cache0.bigcartel.com/product_images/47311289/300.jpg

[newfieboy]

Nice Gordy, nice....arent you gonna look just spiffing wearing those on the fire line. Note to self, must get me a set. Hope alls well mate and married life being good to ya. Be safe going to be a busy and smoky summer I fear.Catch up soon I hope.