20 Spitfires found in Burma

[VH-XXX]

Spitfires buried in Burma during war to be returned to UK - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/9203822/Spitfires-buried-in-Burma-during-war-to-be-returned-to-UK.html)

I can only assume this is legitimate. Don't think we'll ever see anything like this in this country or certainly not to this kind of scale.

[metalman2]

That's pretty amazing, be interesting to see what condition they're in!

[Lantern10]

By Victoria Ward (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/journalists/victoria-ward/), and Rowena Mason

7:00AM BST 14 Apr 2012

The Prime Minister secured a historic deal that will see the fighter jets dug up and shipped back to the UK almost 67 years after they were hidden more than 40-feet below ground amid fears of a Japanese occupation.

The gesture came as Mr Cameron became the first Western leader to meet Aung San Suu Kyi, the Burmese democracy campaigner held under house arrest for 22 years by the military regime, and invited her to visit London in her first trip abroad for 24 years.

He called on Europe to suspend its ban on trade with Burma now that it was showing “prospects for change” following Miss Suu Kyi’s election to parliament in a sweeping electoral victory earlier this year.

The plight of the buried aircraft came to Mr Cameron’s attention at the behest of a farmer from Scunthorpe, North Lincs, who is responsible for locating them at a former RAF base using radar imaging technology.

David Cundall, 62, spent 15 years doggedly searching for the Mk II planes, an exercise that involved 12 trips to Burma and cost him more than £130,000.

When he finally managed to locate them in February, he was told Mr Cameron “loved” the project and would intervene to secure their repatriation.

Mr Cundall told the Daily Telegraph: “I’m only a small farmer, I’m not a multi-millionaire and it has been a struggle. It took me more than 15 years but I finally found them.
”Spitfires are a beautiful aeroplane and should not be rotting away in a foreign land. They saved our neck in the Battle of Britain and they should be preserved.”
He said the Spitfires, of which there are only around 35 flying left in the world, were shipped to Burma and then transported by rail to the British RAF base during the war.
However, advances in technology and the emergence of more agile jets meant they were never used and in August 1945, officials fearing a Japanese occupation abandoned them on the orders of Lord Louis Mountbatten, the head of South East Asia Command, two weeks before the atom bombs were dropped, ending the conflict.
“They were just buried there in transport crates,” Mr Cundall said. “They were waxed, wrapped in greased paper and their joints tarred. They will be in near perfect condition.”
The married father of three, an avid plane enthusiast, embarked on his voyage of discovery in 1996 after being told of their existence by a friend who had met some American veterans who described digging a trench for the aircraft during the Allied withdrawal of Burma.
He spent years appealing for information on their whereabouts from eye witnesses, scouring public records and placing advertisements in specialist magazines.
Several early trips to Burma were unsuccessful and were hampered by the political climate.
He eventually met one eyewitness who drew maps and an outline of where the jets were buried and took him out to the scene.
“Unfortunately, he got his north, south, east and west muddled up and we were searching at the wrong end of the runway,” he said.
“We also realised that we were not searching deep enough as they had filled in all of these bomb craters which were 20-feet to start with.
“I hired another machine in the UK that went down to 40-feet and after going back surveying the land many times, I eventually found them.
“I have been in touch with British officials in Burma and in London and was told that David Cameron would negotiate on my behalf to make the recovery happen.”
Mr Cundall said sanctions preventing the removal of military tools from Burma were due to be lifted at midnight last night (FRI).
A team from the UK is already in place and is expecting to begin the excavation, estimated to cost around £500,000, imminently. It is being funded by the Chichester-based Boultbee Flight Acadamy.
Mr Cundall said the government had promised him it would be making no claim on the aircraft, of which 21,000 were originally produced, and that he would be entitled to a share in them.
“It’s been a financial nightmare but hopefully I’ll get my money back,” he said.
“I’m hoping the discovery will generate some jobs. They will need to be stripped down and re-riveted but it must be done. My dream is to have a flying squadron at air shows.”


Spitfires buried in Burma during war to be returned to UK - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/9203822/Spitfires-buried-in-Burma-during-war-to-be-returned-to-UK.html)

[baswell]

The Prime Minister secured a historic deal that will see the fighter jets dug up and shipped back to the UK
No wonder it is such a rare find, they are the first production run of the legendary jet power, stealth, super cruising Spitfire!

[Ixixly]

Yeah, I guess I wasn't the only one who cringed everytime I saw them described as a "Jet Fighter" :uhoh:

[tinpis]

Bollox.

20 x (near size) 20 foot containers buried and not noticed by locals?
If they ever existed they waited 60 years to dig for them?

[metalman2]

And I'm pretty sure the Japs were screwed at the two weeks to A-bomb time, I doubt anyone would have been concerned about being occupied, they just barely occupied Japan by that time!

[Cessna Master Beta]

Ive been to Burma several times and up the north around Myitkyina where several large WWII battles took place.It seems many aircraft were lost into the jungle. I asked a local who is an aviation enthusiast (building his own helicopter... but that's another story) what happens if they find an aircraft. He said that they normal melt it down for use in making pots and pans .

If the locals had know about it I'm sure it would have been sold for scrap or used for something else . The level of poverty and closed society in Burma is to been seen to be believed.

[tinpis]

Planes?... Burma?....nah tell 'em they dreamin'.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y150/tinpis/poo.jpg

[Skywagon1915]

Tinpis, they won't be in the ground, they'll be in some local Prince's warehouse as a Super Fund, recovered years ago waiting for the opportunity to talk to the Brit's or other's about the sanctions being lifted. The deal will prob be that one fully restored goes back to Burma ???

Same as in Laos not so long ago ref the T28's and Bird Dogs ?

[VH-XXX]

Actually, found in Myanmar, which was formerly Burma :)

[GCS16]

Amazing find. Will there be enough LAME's current on MKII spits to get them going again?

[morno]

I believe, that somewhere buried deep under YBCV, are many Mustangs and god know's what else. All left there when the American's packed up and went home at the end of World War II.

185, Beechy, you guys would know something about these wouldn't you?

morno

[jas24zzk]

Amazing find. Will there be enough LAME's current on MKII spits to get them going again?

That is ALMOST a good question.

It would be a great one, if you considered how many spits are out there, (35 flyable worldwide as of june 2008 and 7 within 12 months of airworthy status at that time....only read that article a few days ago)

Monocoque Airframe....nothing fancy there.
Merlin engine. nup no surprises there.
The systems.....nothing new either.

All of it well documented, and the docs are not 'no longer available'

As these are being returned to the British government, one has to assume that they will become the responsibility of the BBMF, for return to airworthy status. The BBMF already operates a MkII. Even if the BBMF does not do the work, you can guarantee their expertise will be heavily drawn upon and happily provided.

Keep in mind sweetie, that there is a Mk1 spit and Mk1 hurri airborne in pommeland....20 mk 2's....it's almost factory work when you do that many.


Nup...biggest issue is going to be consumable spares, time and dollars.

[jas24zzk]

I believe, that somewhere buried deep under YBCV, are many Mustangs and god know's what else. All left there when the American's packed up and went home at the end of World War II.

185, Beechy, you guys would know something about these wouldn't you?

morno


Tales like that abound. There is supposedly a field in the NT that 40+ spitfires were flown into, pushed into a hole and buried. Similar for other military equipment from the time. My great grandfather, who lived long enough to tell me some tales, served in the RAN ww1, and merchant navy ww2. His story that on VJ day his ship tossed some 400 tonne of cargo over the side. He was mid pacific, San Francisco to Brisbane with military cargo. Any crate with the Lend Lease handshake painted on the side went overboard.....lost in transit, we wouldn't have to pay for it. I grew up as a member of the VMVC, and stories similar abound. I've seen the results of crates 'recovered' from the deep, seen vehicles getting blasted and the handshake is uncovered and worked around, then cleared over to preserve the 'original element'.

[VH-XXX]

I'm sure Judy Pay and her crew would easily be able to mechanically handle a mother load such as this to airworthy condition.

I wonder what the going rate for a Spitty is? It was well over $2m some 10 years ago if I recall correctly.

Someone was telling me that Judy's Kittyhawk is valued at near $40m if I heard correctly.

[Cessna Master Beta]

Who is to say they were not bulldozed into the ground . Why bury something when you could just burn it ? They could be digging up little bits of scrap.

Seems people here are thinking that there is complete airframes to be discovered ? Why wouldn't the British have flown them out , besides a lack of fuel?

On another note there is a nice spitfire in the Bangkok museum rotting away :-(


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Edit :

Burmese treasure: 'We've done some pretty silly things but the silliest was burying the Spitfires' (http://www.smh.com.au/world/burmese-treasure-weve-done-some-pretty-silly-things-but-the-silliest-was-burying-the-spitfires-20120415-1x1kn.html)

Seems there crated . Just checking if this story was released 1st April

[RatsoreA]

I believe, that somewhere buried deep under YBCV, are many Mustangs and god know's what else. All left there when the American's packed up and went home at the end of World War II.

I don't know about mustangs, but I know someone who found a .50BMG there. Just missing a useable barrel. Action still cycles!

[Andy_RR]

The "general feeling" is that using the name Myanmar is a tacit recognition of the illegal regime that currently controls the country

All governments of the world are illegitimate regimes with a PR cloak of legitimacy. The whole 'democracy' thing is part of their public relations campaign to hoodwink everybody into believing they have a say in how things run. They are nothing more than mafia gangsta families who agree to recognise each other, or not, as the case may be. The UN is just the grand council of the thug.

Sure, you can participate in 'government' if you choose to bow low enough to the Don and abide by all of their rules. Who knows, if you drink enough Kool-aid you may eventually be top dog and call some of the shots.

That Burma has been ostracised for a few decades is merely part of the PR in a "you lot should be grateful we're not as bad as those gangsters in Burma" kind of way.

If you think I'm a raving loon, watch the Godfather series and scale it up by a few orders of magnitude. Note how Michael Corleone craves to be made 'legitimate', but really can't manage to pull it off. Of course not, because he's wielding his power only by force and coercion - at least that's if 'promises' of protection in exchange for allegiance didn't work...

Once you realise that this is all government is, you might be inclined to change your strategy when dealing with it - preferably as little as possible.

But make sure you pay your protection money... (a.k.a tax)

[jas24zzk]

To fly them out, they would have had to be assembled first.

Even if the crates were 'bull dozed in', the amount of salvagable aircraft left behind would be quite large.

Have you ever been to Wangaratta to see what they are rebuilding? To see what they are starting with... ?

Ever heard of Tropical Packaging? Even with the bulldozing, the preservation level will be quite high.

If they weren't bull dozed, its going to be even higher.

[LowNSlow]

Wooden transit crates under 4m of wet tropical soil for 67 years??? Of course they'll be intact, not.

It would be marvellous if they were still complete but I think there are two chances of that:

1. Fat chance
2. No chance

Hopefully there will be salvageable components but I would strongly doubt that the returns would be worth the $500,000 it's estimated it's going to cost to dig them up. The only really valuable parts are the dataplates, everything else can be replicated and indeed has been in the past. One of the "original" Spits flying today was "rebuilt" from a firewall, where the dataplate is mounted, which only had bent engine bearers to the front of it and the windscreen and the remains of the instrument panel to the rear of it.

[jas24zzk]

Know what you're saying,
however, under the tropical soil, wrapped in tropical packaging, you'd be surprised what they will get back.

I'm not for a minute advocating, that they will be pristine in any sense of the word, but my experience with tropical packaging, is that they will get back something quite workable. A long way in front of something that was recovered crashed in the jungle, unwrapped, and exposed to natures fullest fury.

Crashed, or wrapped and buried, it will be interesting to see what mother earth gives back

[training wheels]

This article (http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/around-yorkshire/local-stories/race_is_on_to_find_buried_treasures_spitfires_worth_163_6m_1 _2411664) written in 2001 actually mentions where the aircraft are buried (so much for all the secrecy) . Mingaladon airport is the international airport of Yangon (formerly Rangoon) and is also home to the Myanmar Airforce.

I'm actually going to be in Yangon next week, so will keep my eyes opened when I land for any excavating work going on there.

Here's the article I linked to above.

Race is on to find buried ‘treasures’ – Spitfires worth £6m

Published on Wednesday 9 May 2001 22:21

ENCASED in containers for 56 long years they have quietly decayed away, their once shining propellors and wings gathering mould in their underground tomb. Outside the temperature is in the 90s as passenger jets take off in the shimmering heat.

The scene is Mingaladon airport, Myanmar, formerly Burma, and according to farmer and inventor David Cundall hidden 6ft under the airfield are 12 brand new Spitfires, abandoned in 1945 and now worth a cool 6m.

Mr Cundall’s dream is to excavate the crates, restore the Spitfires, and finally see them fly again.

The farmer and inventor first heard stories about the aircraft 20 years ago, but only started researching them in earnest after a friend and former Spitfire pilot met some American veterans who described digging a trench for the aircraft during the Allied withdrawal of Burma.

Through his own work at the public records office at Kew and by placing advertisements in specialist magazines Mr Cundall, who invents farm machinery for a living, has been able to contact seven eyewitnesses, who have confirmed the story.

The aircraft were abandoned on the orders of Louis Mountbatten, the head of South East Asia Command, two weeks before the atomic bombs were dropped in August 1945, ending the Second World War.

Knowing exactly where to dig is the problem when work could undermine the stability of the adjacent international runway.

Another snag is that an Israeli competitor is on the case and has been given permission to make a search

Mr Cundall, 51, who lives in North Lincolnshire, has been out to Burma six times and has worked closely with the military authorities. He said: “We have an agreement with the military that we have our share and they have their share.

“What we really want to do is restore them and have them flying again.”

Mr Cundall – who describes his hobby as “digging up crashed aircraft” – is working with Dr Roger Clark, the head of earth sciences at Leeds University to analyse data from a ground penetrating radar which has been used to survey the 10-acre site. The radar has shown up “boxed shape images” which Mr Cundall believes are the outlines of the containers.

He added: “The story I originally heard was that in August 1945 a group from a construction battalion were passing through Rangoon on the way to Singapore and they were asked to bury 12 planes – they actually questioned the order as it was so unusual.

“When I heard this many years ago Burma was a closed country. I advertised extensively and come up with seven eyewitnesses and 20 who know about the burials.

“Seventy per cent of the area has been searched, and another eyewitness who came along last year is positive he knows where they are and has sent me maps and an outline.

“However, the Burmese say we need more eyewitnesses to exactly pinpoint the place otherwise they’re not going to let us dig. They’re worried about undermining the foundations of the airfield.

“We also have a competitor, an Israeli pilot, who has paid a substantial amount of money to gain the contract to excavate the Spitfires. But his contract expires this month – and with a bit of luck we might be going back out in a week or 10 days.’’

Principal keeper of archaeology at North Lincolnshire Museum Kevin Leahy said the wings and fuselages were made out of thin aluminium and could have crumbled away – but if they were covered in grease and oil, or wax paper ready for a sea transit, they could be all right.

Mr Cundall needs more letters from eyewitnesses spelling out the exact location to convince the military. Anyone who can help is asked to contact him via the Yorkshire Post Hull office at Regent House, Ferensway, Hull, HU1 3PT or by e-mailing [email protected].

[tinpis]

Oh. theyre Mark 16 or something with Griffons now? Well they wouldnt have been Mk1's in '45.

[europaflyer]

British farmer’s quest to find lost Spitfires in Burma - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/destinations/asia/burma/9204921/British-farmers-quest-to-find-lost-Spitfires-in-Burma.html)

This is probably the best article I've found - an interview with David Cundall by the Telegraph. Makes some interesting points - apparently a borehole has been dug down to the crates, and a camera shows them to be in 'good condition'. Plus, they put teak beams over the crates when covering them so they wouldn't crush.

He says there are another 60 Spits buried elsewhere in Burma. Oh my! To a massive Spitfire enthusiast, this whole thing probably couldn't be any more exciting... and they may start digging in the next three to four weeks!

[Slasher]

Oh my! To a massive Spitfire enthusiast, this whole thing probably couldn't be any more exciting...

Mate - as a Spit freak I'm creamin' me pants! I may have to
mount my own Burma expedition to dig up one for meself.

[europaflyer]

I may have to
mount my own Burma expedition to dig up one for meself.

Meet you in Yangon airport, I'll bring the shovels!

[Pinky the pilot]

Meet you in Yangon airport, I'll bring the shovels!

I'll grab an excavator. Oh, and Slasher, Who buys the first round of beers?:D

[Wallsofchina]

The first tiny shadow of doubt is that he's standing there with a painting of a Spit in his hands, and not one of his borehole photos of the real thing, or at least something recognisable as part of a crate.

[Slasher]

Oh, and Slasher, Who buys the first round of beers?

Pinks and Euro -

I'll supply all the piss, mules, and local carry-boys while you
blokes supply the digging equipment. We will also be needing
drilling equipment, a forklift, a couple of local buxom harlots
(we may be there a long time), some gelignite and a bobcat.
These items we can probably scrounge up in Yangon.

We have to decide about the Spits themselves - do we dig up
one for each of us? Or just go dig up one and go into a sort've
partnership of sorts? If we choose the latter who's garage will
house the crate? And more importantly who'll be organised to
pull out the thing and assemble it?

[aroa]

When you "consortium" of Spitfire freaks have your sample, I will make the hangar freely available for the re-build... and assist with the resto.
Only reqd payment will be that I get to FLY it.:ok:

Seriously, it will be VERY interesting to see these airfames back in the light of day....and their condition.

Here's to a good result.:ok:

[aroa]

Re YBCV. Just another mongered rumour??.... or is there any evidence to back it up. ?:confused:
Ditto with the Spits buried near Darwin.
Wasnt everything flown to Oakey for the big melt down.:{

[RatsoreA]

I know you can still dig up artifacts and equipment at ybcv. Seen it myself. Dunno about whole planes though!

[Checkboard]

I have a book on the recovery from the ice cap in Iceland of "Glacier Girl" one of a squadron of P-38s lost in WW2:

Glacier Girl - The Lost Squadron (Recovery of a P-38 from beneath a Greenland ice cap) (http://p38assn.org/glacier-girl-recovery.htm)

[TBM-Legend]

Oh. theyre Mark 16 or something with Griffons now? Well they wouldnt have been Mk1's in '45.


Mk XVI's we not Griffon powered; As a matter of interest it was a Mk IX with a Packard Merlin..

[aseanaero]

They better take a couple of shipping containers of US$ , with all the press exposure there's going to be a long queue of local thugs, police, army officers (at all levels) and customs officials with their hands out. It would be a nightmare recovery operation even with UK government sanction.

[T28D]

They called them Spitfires

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zv8rFPLN_Fg&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[Arnold E]

Every single person in that clip is a true hero.

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

From AVweb......30/4/2012.

"Dogfight Brewing Over Burmese Spitfires,

British farmer and aviation history buff David Cundall now says there are 124 new Spitfires buried in Myanmar (formerly Burma) and he knows where 60 of them are. As we reported two weeks ago, Cundall stunned the aviation world with news that he had found at least 20 crated, brand-new Spitfires wrapped in protective paper and tar to preserve them. Whether he'll be able to capitalize on his stunning discovery is in question, however, as treasure hunters from all over the world race against each other and the impending monsoon season to dig the pickled aircraft up. In an email exchange a week ago, Cundall told AVweb he was having problems with financial backers who now may be rivals for the treasure trove. Cundall has not returned subsequent email and phone messages from AVweb. He did, however, claim in an interview with the Independent that a British businessman is trying to hijack the project with the help of the country's prime minister.

Cundall told AVweb he had originally struck a deal with an American backer to fund the recovery of the aircraft but it fell through. He was then approached by Steve Boultbee Brooks, a land developer and aviation buff who owns a two-seat Spitfire. He alleges Boultbee Brooks, who accompanied Prime Minister David Cameron on a trade and political mission to Myanmar two weeks ago, used his attendance on the trip to engineer discussions between Cameron and Myanmar President Thein Sein on repatriation of the aircraft. Brooks does indeed appear to be assuming a lead role in digging up the planes.

In an email to AVweb, Brooks' public relations consultant Elizabeth Tagge declined an interview but said there will soon be public access to news on the effort. "The team is entirely focused on the next stage of the project at this point and won't be giving interviews just yet," Tagge said. "However, there should be a Facebook page up soon, which we'll update when there is news to help keep everyone aware of progress."

Meanwhile, Brooks himself told the Independent that he hopes Cundall will be "on board" with the recovery effort. Cundall says he'll be involved all right, as the holder of all the important cards in a high-stakes game that involves cutting the Myanmar government in for 40 percent of the proceeds from the sale of the aircraft. "We were issued a permit to dig, which is still a valid and exclusive agreement," he said. "The President of Burma wants to do business with me." Cundall said he has a buyer who will take all the aircraft at about $1.5 million each. Boultbee Brooks said it would be a shame for the aircraft to end up anywhere but Britain and he noted there are other groups in the U.S., Israel and Australia hoping to claim the aircraft. "What a terrible day this is when the prime minister has gone out and got a British team, we put a British team together, and then we squabble so much that we allow other nations to walk in and take the Spitfires from under our noses," he said.

This is gunna get 'dirty'.......

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Hi Checkboard,

Had the pleasure of seeing 'Glacier Girl' in the 'flesh' at OSH last year.
It flew in of course.:ok:

[Sunfish]

Cundall, the researcher, is unlikely to ever get a whiff of Spitfires. Cameron and his friends, not to mention the Burmese, will stitch him up.

[Wally Mk2]

It's called GREED, it's a human trait & at ALL levels of society especially at Govt levels.
I bet Cundall now regrets even finding them or at the very least telling too many people about them.


Why not just leave the machines buried,we glorify war too much as it is & this event only shows the ugly side (again) of mankind as if there was still a war going on !!:ugh:

Wmk2

[aroa]

See Canadian Warplane Heritage site for a great set of pics of P40 HS-B...Tomahawk 1? Kittyhawk found in the desert in Egypt.
Crash landed 1942, found March 2012.
I wonder what happened to the pilot.? Scary looking environment.!!

[VH-XXX]

This is what you are referring to.

From my limited knowledge of World Wars, I believe it is related to the Battle of El-Alamein at the top end of Africa circa 1942, ala Rommel and Montgomery.

What an amazing discovery!

People have probably been flying over it for years just thinking it was an old wreck. Well it is... but. Apparently found by a mob looking for oil.

An AUSTRALIAN built aircraft from what can be seen, a LONG way from home. Was the pilot Australian I wonder?

I've heard figures of Judy's P40 Kittyhawk being worth in excess of $15m and up to $40m, so it will be interesting to hear the fate of this aircraft.

https://picasaweb.google.com/114682...&authkey=Gv1sRgCKjxkt6rkNTFKg&feat=directlink (https://picasaweb.google.com/114682566226043469349/Zdj_samolot?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCKjxkt6rkNTFKg&feat=directlink)

WWII Curtiss P40 Found in Desert | Military.com (http://www.military.com/video/operations-and-strategy/second-world-war/ww2-curtiss-p40-found-in-desert/1601516484001/)

M9LsK74J_W0

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Jh37BioB1R8/T5ZfdR1ojPI/AAAAAAAAAKc/mGW_vdXnZsA/s640/Obraz%2520135.jpg

[aseanaero]

Amazingly good condition for 70 years in the open ...

Looks like Ali Baba and his forty thieves de-arming it haha

[Pinky the pilot]

British farmer and aviation history buff David Cundall now says there are 124 new Spitfires buried in Myanmar (formerly Burma) and he knows where 60 of them are.

Getting more and more 'interesting' isn't it Griffo. Now let us just assume for the moment that the report is true. If so, just what would the sudden influx of 124 virtually 'new' Spitfires do to the value of known existing airframes?:ooh:

I suspect that some would think that the lost but now found airframes would be better remaining lost.

For the record, I'm not one of them. Like Slasher and others I'd cheefully go and dig one up myself.:ok:

Re the Kittyhawk discovered in the desert; I do not think it beyond the realms of possibility that there are more similar wrecks like that just waiting to be found.:hmm:

[Wanderin_dave]

Amazingly good condition for 70 years in the open ...

Unfortunately as can be seen in this video she hasn't remained that way. New bullet holes are evident throughout the airframe, the cockpit has been smashed in (with the exception of the the armoured panel which appears to have been 'tested'). I've been following this closely, such an exciting prospect has very quickly become a depressing story. :(

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nzkev...re=uploademail

And to think, the identity of the pilot has yet to be confirmed. I hope his remains, should they be found, are afforded much better treatment.

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Aye Aye Pinky,

I do have a ticket in the 'BIG one' for Tonight, and the BIGGER one for next Tues.........

You'd better be 'nice' to moi.....

(I'll take 2 please...)

:p

[aroa]

XXX... I have some P39 stuff you can have for a couple of mil $$s.
By the time you have it all back together it'll be worth $20 mil. Wow..!!
And now pull the other one....back to reality.:eek:
If you wish to see current Warbird prices... have a look in Courtesy or Barnstormers.

Hope HS-B ends up at someplace like AvSpecs in Na Zilan...and gets back into the air again. It would be a worthy flying memorial to Pilot Officer XX who dropped it into that terrible place.
Is his dessicated body buried by the sand, under that wing where they pulled out some parachute.? Or did he wander off into the great unknown.?
Would be good to see a proper archeological dig around the thing.:ok:
That was one helluva rough "landing"!
What else is out there...Me 109, or....???

[Sunfish]

Lets hope that we get a good outcome and it doesn't end in tears.

Dozens of rare Spitfire fighter planes buried in Burma during World War II are to be dug up under an agreement between the Burmese government and a British aviation enthusiast.

The iconic single-seat aircraft are believed to have been hidden unassembled in crates by the former colonial power to prevent them falling into Japanese hands almost seven decades ago.

Local businessman Htoo Htoo Zaw, who is involved with the project, says the excavation is expected to take about two years.

"We expect to dig up about 60 fighters," he said.



Hidden Burmese Spitfires to be excavated - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-10-18/hidden-spitfires-to-be-excavated-in-burma/4321436)

[MakeItHappenCaptain]

With an estimated value of $2.3 Mil each.........KACHING!!!:}

[CoodaShooda]

buried unassembled in crates by the former colonial power to prevent them falling into Japanese hands almost seven decades ago.


More revisionist history. :ugh:

Purportedly buried in 1945 as being surplus to requirements in the final stages of the war.

[T28D]

If there are 60 and they are still in reasonable condition ,the inhibiting has worked, then as they come onto the market for sale the $2.3 million will quickly drop , my guess is to around the P 51figure about half their current market value.

[finfly1]

News From AP | TBO.com (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/A/AS_MYANMAR_BRITAIN_SPITFIRES?SITE=FLTAM&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=)

[Engineer_aus]

That article is now saying 140 of them.

[aroa]

In todays Oz . 124 of at 6 locations.

My bet will be that the magesium alloy rivets that the Poms used will ALL need replacing. Did the XIVs have fabric or metal tail feathers?.. but that's a minor prob..

No matter...if you can afford to buy one , you can afford a rivet gun and a bucket containing 1,457,319 rivets.:eek::{:E

Should be very interesting to see the first one out the box.!
Wow...something very special.!

Imagine in years to come seeing a"scramble" by a couple of squadrons of Spits! :ok:

Spitfire Dreaming ???

[Biggles78]

News article in The Age online said these models had a Griffon engine so they won't have the sweet Merlin sound. Shame really.

[stevep64]

Imagine in years to come seeing a"scramble" by a couple of squadrons of Spits!
They can do that over my house, no worries. I won't complain about aircraft noise.:ok::)

[4SPOOLED]

Biggles,

The Griffon was just a bigger Merlin.

It should sound BETTER :p

[Engineer_aus]

Just for the sounds
Supermarine Spitfire LF Mk XIVe - YouTube (http://youtu.be/4kivI5JFZxs)

Video 2
Mk. XIV Spitfire Startup - YouTube (http://youtu.be/nhBoUXVQXWc)

Video 3
Supermarine Spitfire Mk XIV Visits Reno - YouTube (http://youtu.be/hzAzizTWEjY)

[FlightPathOBN]

Burying aircraft and equipment at the end of the war was very common on the islands in the Pacific.

There are many stories of the US SeaBees trenching and burying crate motors and equipment.

This article appears very suspect, first off, that after all of that searching, they have not located a single aircraft.

Second, the aircraft are sovereign British warplanes, hence the breakdown of ownership does not appear to be correct.

The Burma government will get one plane for display at a museum, as well as half of the remaining total. DJC, a private company headed by Cundall, will get 30 per cent of the total and the Burma partner company, Shwe Taung Paw, 20 per cent.

[RedhillPhil]

Biggles,

The Griffon was just a bigger Merlin.

It should sound BETTER :p

I thought the Merlin was one of a kind but the Griffon was a further development of the Type "R"?

[ShyTorque]

Anyone else think this will be a big disappointment? Sixty five years buried in a rush, underground in a hot humid environment will surely have caused more than a bit of surface corrosion....

I'm still hoping to be proven wrong, though! :p

[500N]

Flightpath

"Second, the aircraft are sovereign British warplanes, hence the breakdown of ownership does not appear to be correct."

"the aircraft are sovereign British warplanes"

Does this apply to crashed one's as well ?

And who decides who owns the buried one's ?

.

[Going Boeing]

WWII-era Spitfires to be excavated in Myanmar

Dozens of rare British Spitfire fighter planes buried in Myanmar during World War II are to be dug up under an agreement between the government and an aviation enthusiast.

The iconic single-seat aircraft are believed to have been hidden -- unassembled in crates -- by the former colonial power to prevent them falling into Japanese hands almost seven decades ago.

There could be as many as 140 of the aircraft buried in the country formerly known as Burma, according to a local geophysicist who has been involved in the search since 1999.

"In the first year, we will dig up 60 aircraft," Soe Thein told AFP, adding that work to retrieve them would start next month. "The next year in the second phase, I expect to dig up another 50."

Based on a survey of hundreds of witnesses, the team plans to dig in various locations including in Yangon, northern Kachin state and central Mandalay.

If successfully excavated, some of the Spitfires are expected to be returned to Britain, which ruled Myanmar until independence in 1948 but was temporarily forced out of much of the country in 1942 by invading Japanese forces.

"We want to strengthen relations between Britain and our country and benefit millions of people in the world who want to see Spitfires," said local businessman Htoo Htoo Zaw who is involved in the project.

The project is the result of more than a decade of searching former airforce bases in Myanmar by British farmer and aviation aficionado David Cundall using radar technology.

"I'm only a small farmer, I'm not a multi-millionaire and it has been a struggle. It took me more than 15 years but I finally found them," Cundall told British newspaper The Daily Telegraph earlier this year.

"Spitfires are beautiful aeroplanes and should not be rotting away in a foreign land. They saved our neck in the Battle of Britain and they should be preserved," he added.

"They were just buried there in transport crates," Cundall said. "They were waxed, wrapped in greased paper and their joints tarred. They will be in near perfect condition."

About 20,000 Spitfires were built by Britain from 1938-1948. The planes captured the public imagination during the Battle of Britain when the Royal Air Force prevented the German Luftwaffe from invading in 1940.

Today just a few dozen are still in flying condition.

An agreement on retrieving the historic planes was signed by a transport ministry senior official with Cundall and Htoo Htoo Zaw in the capital Naypyidaw on Tuesday.

The British government welcomed the agreement, which follows the personal intervention of Prime Minister David Cameron, who discussed the Spitfires with President Thein Sein during his visit to Myanmar earlier this year.

The signing "marks an important step towards uncovering, restoring and displaying these fighter planes, and perhaps even seeing some of the aircraft gracing the skies of Britain in the future," an embassy spokesperson said.

According to the agreement, the Myanmar government will own half of the airplanes while Cundall will take 30 percent and Htoo Htoo Zaw's company Shwe Taung Por the remaining 20 percent, Soe Thein said.

"We don't have to give the planes to the Myanmar government but will calculate the total value of the planes and give them cash. We'll still need to give a plane to the government to keep in a museum," he added.

by Park Chan-Kyong © 2012 AFP

Source : AFP

[500N]

Everyone seems to keep talking about it and new threads pop up all the time
but now they have an agreement, when are we actually going to see something concrete as to whether they actually still exist or are just a heap of rust ?

Surely they know the level of interest, can't they stick a camera down
their to have a look instead of keeping everyone in suspense for so long ?

.

[Hempy]

All they need for a 'restoration' (as opposed to being a 'replica') are the data plates...I'm sure they'll be in good enough nick. Bronze on the Spit I think

[oldpax]

The chap who found them says there are about twenty!Been there a long time ,hot and humid !!

[601]

buried in Myanmar
Been there a long time ,hot and humid

I would doubt that the ambient conditions above the ground would have much bearing on the airframes. The type of soil and moisture content may do.

Should be just like a fine wine:ok:

[Wallsofchina]

500N, they did stick a camera down.

[AEROMEDIC]

"They were just buried there in transport crates," Cundall said. "They were waxed, wrapped in greased paper and their joints tarred. They will be in near perfect condition."


I hate to disappoint all those enthusiasts about these wonderful aircraft, if they exist, but there is no way they can be buried for seven decades with the type of preservation described and survive intact enough for re-assembly.
Waxed, wrapped in greased paper, joints tarred (I assume the joints of the crates) just does not do it for this length of time and buried deep enough to be forgotten about and undiscovered.

It's doubtful that they were intended to be retrieved at all as the circumstances at the time meant hiding them enough to ensure the Japanese didn't find them.

Cundall is plain wrong and that will be found out in time.

The preservation procedures of the time may provide protection for internals of reduction gearboxes, some engine components and the like. Airframe, flight controls and components, bearings and fuel systems are not so lucky.

I wish sincerely that I am wrong and I would like to think that there is a possibility that there could be at least ONE pristine, dare I think, AIRWORTHY example that might exist.

Even then, you would have to disassemble all sections,completely replace wiring (mandatory), spend lots of money overhauling components, engine, avionics, etc. and a minefield of compliance issues.

I hope that there will be enough bits for a complete aircraft for museum display.
:sad::sad::sad:

[Fiero88]

Now you are spoiling my dream:{

[Offcut]

I call bullsh_t on the whole thing. Just think, the Japanese army is invading, the Brits are retreating, they are hardly going to take the time to dig nice big holes and carefully lower large crates intact into them. If I was in charge I would order them blown up, burnt, or bulldozed. Spitfires weren't the rarity then that they are now. Why leave them intact where they could well be dug up by the enemy? I hope I'm wrong and they pull the whole lot out ready to go, but I doubt they will. To me it smells of a scam to get some collector to stump up money, never to be seen again.

[FlightPathOBN]

Offcut,

This happened after the end of the war. It was far less expensive to bury what was on each island, than to ship it back...this happened all over the islands.

When buried, IF exposed to only fresh water and little oxygen, then preservation should be pretty good. Cathodic reactions would be the biggest issue.

[Rotorhead1026]

Early 1942, actually. Shipping 'em to a safe spot wasn't an option for various reasons.

I'm not hopeful, but there should at least be some restorable parts. The fellow above who mentioned dataplates is right on the money.

Is authorization from the UK required as well? It is with the US services; they vary in their requirements. The USN is quite "persnickity".

[FlightPathOBN]

exactly rotorhead, the US claims sovereinty on ALL aircraft, so we have had little luck with recoveries, the Brits have been more passive aggressive on the issue, so it is difficult to tell...

Burying them from the enemy is one thing, disposing of them is another...

we shall see..

[baron_beeza]

I am sure all will be revealed in just a few weeks. This has moved ahead very rapidly in just the past few months alone.

I can't really understand all this confusion about the dates they were buried.
Has the media reporting been that bad ?

I am equally amazed at the wildly differing estimates of the number of aircraft involved. Surely production and shipping records would give an indication of how many aircraft went where. Local records from the Squadrons or maintenance units should then provide details of their likely fate.
Perhaps that is why the numbers have been revised upwards.

The guys doing the digging and burying would hardly have been worried about records.

Am I correct in thinking that these shipping crates were buried by the Yanks in the closing stages of the war. That is where Mr Cundall appears to have gained his knowledge.

For those that appear to be confused by some of this history we should add that the hostilities in Asia came to an abrupt end towards the end of 1945.

Has anyone seen any factual reports from anyone who actually did the burying ?

Those guys will have a fair idea of what to expect 70 years later.

[VH-XXX]

Surely production and shipping records would give an indication of how many aircraft went where.

Valid point there.

You could almost assume that we know exactly how many were produced to have deducted from it how many were lost in action and disposed of etc. The numbers are probably out there somewhere!

[wsmempson]

Any news on this? there is a rumour doing the rounds that the dig has met with success - personally, I'd be surprised - but what do I know?

[Sunfish]

VH-XXX:

You could almost assume that we know exactly how many were produced to have deducted from it how many were lost in action and disposed of etc. The numbers are probably out there somewhere!

In the turmoil of war anything could happen because I know that even in peace time there is a certain amount of "Slack" in military procedures.

Years ago my unit was the benefit of just such "trading" - ammunition for steaks, BBQ cooks and trimmings for a helicopter ride and so on.....

My guess would be that the database of exactly what was produced, lost in transit, lost in training accidents, lost to enemy action is very far from complete - the obvious further variable is salvaging and scrounging. Remember the dictum "Two fires equal one flood"?" I wonder how many records were lost to enemy action? I'll bet more than one aircraft has been "rebirthed" and I'll bet more than one wreck was writen off but clandestinely returned to service. The only method of control I know regarding military equipment is to restrict access to fuel - nothing else works.

To put that another way, the ingenuity of service men knows no bounds. We could all be in for a surprise.

[18-Wheeler]

To put that another way, the ingenuity of service men knows no bounds. We could all be in for a surprise.

I remember one of the classic stories in that great book, Chickenhawk, where he tells the story a Huey that crashed doing a freighter flight. All the local quartermasters quickly added all the stuff from their stores that had gone walkabout and produced paperwork that they'd had it on that chopper.
Since choppers are pretty sensitive to even a few tens of kilograms of excess mass, when someone worked out it was a full eight tonnes overweight it was no surprise it crashed.
:)

[Wunwing]

On top of the RAF spitfires which were in Burma at the end of WW2 there were a number of ex Israeli Air Force aircraft ferried there later.

I've recently read a book about the ATF women pilots and noted a discussion about what they did after WW2 and their work included being involved in that ferry.So who knows what is actually in the country.

As for the surviving aircraft condition, I've now worked on a number of piles of scrap that aren't far from flying again. All that is needed is a makers plate and in some cases if the serial number is identified, not even that.

Wunwing

[gileraguy]

I understand that an original Dataplate is required for the COA for a "restored" warbird.

[rcoight]

If they have the Griffon engine and / or teardrop canopies then they're not REAL Spitfires for mine. So count me out.

Otherwise, I'm in! :}

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

AND WHAT PRECISELY, IS WRONG ABOUT THE GRIFFON ENGINE...???

Humph!!

[OZBUSDRIVER]

Sorry Griffo, they do not sound as sweet running as the Merlin. Mind you, at certain settings the Allison makes a very satisfying bass note.

[Mr & Mrs Rocketboots]

Any news on this? there is a rumour doing the rounds that the dig has met with success - personally, I'd be surprised - but what do I know?

Still nothing certain - if this report is accurate there won't be for another couple of months.

British farmer hunts buried Spitfires in Myanmar | Stuff.co.nz (http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/asia/8013159/British-farmer-hunts-buried-Spitfires-in-Myanmar)

I do so hope there is a few which are still salvageable. :O

[Engineer_aus]

On Channel 10 news. He is hoping to have them out in the next few weeks and 12 are being looked at. His intentions are for at least enough parts to make one airworthy. They were his words that came out of his mouth. I am gearing up for a huge letdown by the sounds of it.

[illusion]

Here is a reality check boys...

Oklahoma centennial time capsule car found ruined | Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/2007/06/16/us-timecapsule-car-idUSN1628272520070616)

:suspect:

[TBM-Legend]

Griffon Spitfires did not come to the region until late 1944 and there were no earlier Spitfire models in the theatre in 1942. They used some Hurricanes and Curtiss Mohawks then.

Not sure why Spitfires needed to be buried to keep them from the Japs!

It is possible stuff was buried after Burma was retaken by the Allies but whey bury complete aircraft in crates?

[Wallsofchina]

The explanation might be that they didn't. We should have seen at least wooden crates sections from the downhole camera shots taken months ago by now.

[Aussie Bob]

A bit more news on these is coming to light water filled crate found (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/09/myanmar-spitfire-recovery-water-filled-crate_n_2439276.html?icid=maing-grid10%7Chtmlws-main-bb%7Cdl38%7Csec1_lnk2%26pLid%3D254861)

[VH-XXX]

One of the articles I read on this today showed a photoboard of shots from the cameras underground. Unfortunately here were no close ups of it. It is interesting that there has been zero evidence shown to the world thus far.

[AEROMEDIC]

It's a real shame but no Spitfires have been found and the expensive search has been called off.

Dogfight begins over failure to find Burma's buried Spitfires (http://www.theage.com.au/world/dogfight-begins-over-failure-to-find-burmas-buried-spitfires-20130119-2czyf.html)

So what next?

As I posted earlier on this thread, any Spitfires found would be in unsuitable condition for anything.

[Sunfish]

Aaa ah! But they were there until,someone dug them up last year!

[Offcut]

"I call bullsh_t on the whole thing. Just think, the Japanese army is invading, the Brits are retreating, they are hardly going to take the time to dig nice big holes and carefully lower large crates intact into them. If I was in charge I would order them blown up, burnt, or bulldozed. Spitfires weren't the rarity then that they are now. Why leave them intact where they could well be dug up by the enemy? I hope I'm wrong and they pull the whole lot out ready to go, but I doubt they will. To me it smells of a scam to get some collector to stump up money, never to be seen again."

The above is my post from last year. Hate to say "I told you so" but..............

[tinpis]

Maybe all is not lost They could turn the whole search into a comedy series

It Ain't Half Hot Mum - S1-E5 - The Jungle Patrol - YouTube

[tail wheel]

Sorry to burst your bubble but it all looks like another myth:

Some of our Spitfires are missing: Doubts over existence of 160 WW2 fighter planes in Burma - Asia - World - The Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/some-of-our-spitfires-are-missing-doubts-over-existence-of-160-ww2-fighter-planes-in-burma-8458772.html)

Health scare 'won't end my Spitfire dream': Adventurer will continue searching for the planes in Burma | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2265255/Health-scare-wont-end-Spitfire-dream-Adventurer-continue-searching-planes-Burma.html)

Video: Burma spitfires: search still on, says mission leader David Cundall - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/aviation/9814459/Burma-spitfires-search-still-on-says-mission-leader-David-Cundall.html)

'There are no Spitfires': The dream has ended in the hunt for buried British planes - ITV News (http://www.itv.com/news/2013-01-18/there-are-no-spitfires-the-dream-has-ended-in-the-hunt-for-buried-british-planes/)

[tinpis]

Hah hah..I've worked with bloody fools as portrayed in 'aint 'arf 'ot...they weren't all in GA either....

[oliveau]

Let's clear up some of the myths.

According to the Telegraph Cundall claims that Castle Bromwich built Mk XIV's were shipped to Rangoon, arriving in August 1945. It also claimed that a significant number of Mk XIV's were SOC on the same date in August 1945.

FACT: Mk XIV's were all built under Air Ministry order Air/1877 by Supermarine themselves. Castle Bromwich didn't build any Mk XIV's

FACT: There are no records of Mk XIV's being shipped to Rangoon. There are records of Mk XIV's being shipped to India [where presumably they were assembled and ferried to their final destination]. The records of some of those MK XIV's showing being attached to ACSEA [Air Command South-East Asia] . More Mk XIV's don't appear to have gone further than India, with many being SOC in 1946/7 [Partition time, when the Brit's got out of India, so perhaps although shown SOC, they stayed with the Indian Air Force?]

There are no records showing Mk XIV's being SOC in August 1945.

*****************

Why bury brand new aircraft in 1945? - The RAF were still operating Spits in Japan and Malaya in 1946/7. Furthermore, records show another ship delivery to India in October 1945.

Yes, the 'witnesses' may have seen crates being buried, and yes, they may have been told that they contained Spits [on the good old 'Send three and fourpence, I'm going to a dance' principle.] Unless anyone actually opened a crate & took a gander inside, there's no telling what was inside. [Knowing some of the supply snafus, I expect someone had despatched crates of Arctic clothing to Burma, so Yes, bury it quick!]

[Sunfish]

Sadly Oliveau is probably right. Arctic clothing to India, Spitfires probably consigned straight to scrap. Yes: "Send reinforcements we are going to advance""

[thrustpig]

I cant say for sure if they are there, but the dirt is moving!!

A0048/13 NOTAMR A0012/13
Q) VYYF/QMRHW/IV/NBO/A/000/999
A) VYYY B) 1304150030 C) 1307152130 EST
D) BTN 0030/1030 AND 1530/2130 DLY
E) YGN AD SPITFIRE ACFT EXCAVATION WIP AT LEFT SIDE OF RWY03.
WORK SIDE AREA WITH THE LENGTH OF 1430FT AND WIDTH OF 165FT
ALONG THE RWY.DISTANCE 1300FT FM RWY 03 THR AND 174FT FM THE
EDGE OF RWY 03 ON THE LEFT SIDE . PILOT SECL/ECT.
CREATED: 14 Apr 2013 08:21:00
SOURCE: VYYYYNYX