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Centaurus
13th Apr 2012, 12:40
It is drawing a long bow by placing this post in Australian D&G Forum but maybe those ex RAAF types over the age of 80 would be interested.

In 1954 a RAF Canberra disappeared after departing Momote airstrip Manus Island for the 1400nm across ocean trip to the US base at Kwajalein 200 miles south of Bikini Atoll where atomic tests were planned. Although extensive searches were conducted by US aircraft and RAAF Lincolns from Townsville, there was no trace of the Canberra. A replacement Canberra arrived in Momote and that too disappeared en-route to Kwajalein. Lincolns from Townsville were again involved in the search.

That Canberra was eventually found by US searchers, having successfully ditched in Bigatyelang Lagoon, Ailinglap Atoll 115 miles south-east of Kwajalein. The crew were unhurt. The story of the two missing RAF Canberra bombers has now been published and called "Sniffing and Bottling: 1323 Flight and its Successors." by David Forster and available for only $7 plus postage through Self Publishing and Book Printing Solutions - Books, EBooks, Photo books and Calendars at Lulu.com (http://www.lulu.com)

The subject was discussed in Rumours and News a few months ago although I cannot find the date.

As a Lincoln pilot I was involved in both searches for the two missing Canberra bombers and recently talked to our crew navigator (who is now 86 and was later a navigator with Qantas on Super-Connies) about the events of those days. For that reason I thought there may be other old RAAF aircrew still alive who were on those searches and who may read Pprune. (I said it was drawing a long bow!)

The book by David Forster is incredibly cheap for 175 pages of sheer adventure as he has been able to interview over the years some of the RAF aircrew and ground staff who supported the Atomic Bomb projects and based at Kwajalein.
The Mods may decide to shift this to another forum but as the RAAF aircrew concerned if still around are probably still in Australia I thought the Australian forum would be appropriate

LAME2
13th Apr 2012, 22:00
Purchased. Many thanks for the heads up. Father in Law was on Manus before that time upgrading the strip with 2ACS. He will enjoy the read.

TheWholeEnchilada
14th Apr 2012, 00:18
Centaurus, many thanks for the book info, here's a direct link to book: Sniffing The Bottle (http://www.lulu.com/shop/dave-forster/sniffing-and-bottling/paperback/product-18880232.html). I've also purchased a copy.

Preon
2nd Jan 2014, 00:18
I've just seen this thread which reminded me of a conversation with an ex - RAF Canberra pilot near Aldergrove Airport about 24 years ago, he was then a Captain with Inter European Airlines flying B.757 aircraft and close to retirement.

His first duty in the RAF on being posted to Canberra's B.2's in 1954 was to fly one of three Canberra's to the Pacific in order to monitor nuclear tests.
However once in the Pacific a Canberra and it's crew went missing no trace of them being found, followed by a second loss which thankfully was located, the crew having forced landed on an Atoll.
As the sole survivor of the flight it was a relief to establish the two aircraft had been lost as a result of corrosion in the generators on what was still a new frontline combat aircraft and then in full production.
I've never seen any previous account on these events and present my recollection of our interesting conversation as the 'bare bones' of these events.

Centaurus
15th Jan 2014, 12:41
As the sole survivor of the flight it was a relief to establish the two aircraft had been lost as a result of corrosion in the generators on what was still a new frontline combat aircraft and then in full production.
I've never seen any previous account on these events and present my recollection of our interesting conversation as the 'bare bones' of these events.

While there may well have been generator problems as he said, a different point of view was stated at page 34 of Sniffing and Bottling. Quote: "Engine problems were experienced in RAF Canberra WH 881 during the journey with two high-altitude flame-outs of the starboard engine; one during the Ceylon-Changi leg, 400 miles out from Changi and the other on the Townsville-Momote leg.

In both cases relights were successfully achieved on the first attempts at 17-18000 feet. Both flame-outs occurred at high altitude with high engine RPM and a low temperature and may have been the result of n/Root T surges: as the air temperature (t) drops and the RPM (n) increases the likelihood of an engine compressor surge increases and an engine surge at high altitude can result in a flame-out.

There was a dearth of Canberra engine performance data at the abnormally cold temperatures to be found at great height in the tropics. With our early Rolls Royce Avon engines if conditions were right, at cruise settings an engine without warning would surge and flame-out. It could not be relit at height and one had to come down to lower altitudes and warmer temperatures.

The loss of WH738. The Hastings and both Canberra's departed Momote at 1010 the next morning for the 1400nm crossing to Kwajalein. A number of tropical storms were forecast along the route but these were not thought to pose a serious danger as they were widespread enough for the aircraft to fly around them (providing the aircraft was not in cloud and could see the storms visually).

The primary navigation aid on the Canberra was the radio compass. Official reports indicate that about the half way point in the vicinity of the Caroline Islands (Ponape) the pilot of WH 738 reported radio compass failure and that he intended to formate on WH 881. This was the last message received from the crew. No VHF or visual contact was subsequently made with WH 881 and the aircraft never arrived at Kwajalein.

The crew of Canberra WH 881 also experienced problems but managed to complete their journey. According to Flying Officer Peters who occupied the occasional seat in WH 881, the temperatures that day was critical and our aircraft suffered from engine surges...we had our hands full on that sortie; what with engine problems, navigation equipment failures, aircraft electrical faults and massive thunderstorms well over 50,000 feet high...we couldn't locate Kwajalein or any other beacon on the radio compass until very close to our destination.

The crew of WH 881 thought the most likely explanation for the loss of WH738 was that it suffered a double engine flame-out at altitude, had been forced down into one of the violent thunderstorms that had straddled the Canberra's track and then broken up in turbulent conditions.

A few days later on 11 March 1954, a replacement Canberra departed Momote for Kwajalein. It ran into an inter-tropical weather front with rain, cloud and attendant severe turbulence. An attempt was made to climb over the front but the aircraft was still in cloud at 50,000 ft. The radio compass failed depriving the crew of their primary navigation aid. Shortly afterwards the pilot noticed the No 2 Inverter (providing AC power to the blind flying instruments) had stopped, the No 3 Inverter taking over as designed. The No 2 Inverter was successfully restarted but it was then noticed that the AC voltmeter monitoring the supply to the flight instruments was showing a low reading.

The pilot was concerned that a loss of AC power to his flight instruments would be catastrophic in the existing turbulent flying conditions and was also concerned about overshooting Kwajalein: he thus decided to descend ahead of ETA into visual contact with the sea. the aircraft finally broke through the cloud base at about 500 feet above the sea where the crew found themselves in heavy rain and poor visibility. Eventually they were running out of fuel and elected to land wheels down on a beach of an atoll they spotted. Islanders saw them land successfully and several days later the crew were rescued by a boat from Kwajalein.

Later it was discovered that the radio compass loop housing contained fresh water, suggesting a condensation problem. the HF receiver was found set to "CW" and "local" which would have prevented operation by the navigator and would have disabled the HF R/T operation.

Although a joint RAF/RAAF investigation had started looking at the electrical problems in the Canberras and suspected high humidity, no firm conclusions had been reached. Later the radio compass problems were narrowed down to condensation, resulting from high humidity forming inside the loop aerial housing and then freezing as the aircraft climbed to cruising altitude. The fix was to drill drain holes.
............................................................ ......................................

If corrosion of the Canberra generators was a factor in the loss of both Canberra bombers on their leg Momote to Kwajalein, this was never mentioned in the book Sniffing and Bottling by David Forster published in 2011. Multiple flame-outs at high altitude caused by engine surges were documented as were radio compass failures. Severe weather was certainly a factor.

flap relief
19th Jan 2014, 04:42
Yes I remember it well. This happened not long before I joined 10 Squadron although as a mystery, it was still a topic of conversation for some time after I arrived. I did meet some of the RAF crews when I was in Darwin on SAR. Their mission was ultra secret - (high altitude atmospheric sampling or something) but we all knew they had sensitive recording equipment to monitor the atomic bomb testing in the north west of Australia and around Woomera after the explosions took place. They had to fly through the clouds several times and my understanding was that they all succumbed quite early as a result of exposure to radiation. It was surprising to me to learn of a survivor flying 757s! The reference to the problem being double generator failure is pretty unlikely. Certainly, the only nav aid we had at that time was a radio compass and in those weather conditions they are pretty useless. I am not really surprised at what happened with the nav aids and the weather combination. Kwajelein is a pretty small atoll. I will order the book.

Pinky the pilot
19th Jan 2014, 05:30
elected to land wheels down on a beach of an atoll they spotted.

Centaurus; What happened to the a/c? Salvaged or abandoned?

Centaurus
20th Jan 2014, 10:58
What happened to the a/c? Salvaged or abandoned?

Selected extracts from Sniffing and Bottling but best buy the book for the full and I must say the exciting story. the book is a steal at $7 via Self Publishing, Book Printing and Publishing Online - Lulu (http://www.lulu.com)

Edited extracts:' The island was 3.5 miles long and 200 yards wide covered in coconut palms and dense vegetation to the waters edge. A narrow beach running down one side. The pilot elected a landing on the beach wheels down rather than wheels up. The beach turned out to be a mud covered shelf of coral under shallow water. A successful landing was made with only cuts to the tyres and spray damage to the flaps.

The island was Bigatyelang part of Ailinglaplap Atoll and approx. 115 miles SE of the destination Kwajalein. A few hours after landing the pilot started up the Canberra and taxied closer to the palm trees in an attempt to get the aircraft further away from the sea. It was low tide.

After the final shut down the crew fitted the intake covers to preserve the engines from spray damage. A party of islanders one of whom spoke English, arrived by outrigger canoe and the head man of the party agreed to send a note to Kwajalein via a copra boat which fortuitously was making its thrice a year visits to the islands.

Word of the ditching reached Kwajalein on 12 March and the US Duty officer was given a grubby sweat stained scrap of paper on which were the pencilled words "We're down but safe come and get us" A US Navy PBM-5A Mariner amphibious SAR aircraft took off at first light to inspect the Canberra and retrieve the crew. The sea was heavy and it took three attempts before the amphibian was able to land in the lagoon. The Canberra crew were signalled by Aldis lamp to paddle out to the amphibian in the islanders outrigger canoe.

Two aircrew from the Canberra were seen to strip to their underwear and wade through the breakers into the lagoon intending to swim to the rescue aircraft. This was extremely risky due to the likelihood of sharks and the amphibian crew tried to wave them back. A rope was let out to recover the pair.

20 days later a salvage operation was mounted to recover the Canberra. Inspection showed the Canberra was extensively corroded by salt water and damaged beyond repair. At high tide the surf had reached a third of the way up the fuselage. The engines were removed and the entire aircraft dragged over the coral reef by ropes from the salvage vessel.
It was dragged into deep water to be sunk. The Canberra proved unexpectedly buoyant and refused to sink even when subject to small-arms and 20mm cannon fire, the latter starting a small fire in the No 1 fuel tank.

The Canberra continued to float even after being rammed by the salvage vessel nose-on. A further ramming knocked off the fin and tailplane. Soon after the Canberra nose dipped under water and the fuselage reared to a vertical position, taking a further five minutes to sink slowly out of sight. In all, it had taken one hour and five minutes to sink the Canberra. Centaurus comment: How sad - it was like shooting Bambi's mother...:{

At least some of the parts salvaged from the Canberra were put to good use. The wingtip tanks were donated to the local islanders who wanted them for water tanks. In exchange, the grateful headman presented the salvage team with a dozen hula skirts and a rush mat.

The US Navy Mariner aircraft used in the rescue was later returned to Hawaii for repairs. However, the damage sustained during the take off from Bigatyelang Lagoon was so serious the aircraft was deemed beyond repair and written off.

Pinky the pilot
21st Jan 2014, 00:24
Thanks for that Centaurus.:ok: Will buy the book in due course.

mmciau
21st Jan 2014, 01:40
Slightly OT, I was told by an ex-AFP Officer (now deceased) that the British used Canberra(s) at Woomera during the late 1950s early 1960s. One was being used for drone towing when the missile knocked the tail off and the negative "G"s the airframe experienced far exceeded design parameters before the wings folded/departed. Sturdy beast!!

Centaurus
21st Jan 2014, 10:55
when the missile knocked the tail off

Did the pilot and navigator eject? Any third crew carried would have no ejection seat.

FlexibleResponse
21st Jan 2014, 12:53
Perhaps he meant a pilot-less Canberra towing a drone?

Some of these early missiles had a much healthier appetite for real aircraft rather than drones...

mmciau
21st Jan 2014, 20:39
I believe it was pilot-less because there was high risk the missile would take out the plane and not the drone.

Mark3
30th Jan 2014, 16:13
I have just bought one for my father who was on the Lincoln about then and then subsequently the Canberra. I'm sure he will enjoy the read.

Centaurus
30th Jan 2014, 23:09
I have just bought one for my father who was on the Lincoln about then

Was your Dad a navigator called Dave Marks? if so, please give him my best wishes from a long time ago. Tell him to go to the internet publishing website Self Publishing, Book Printing and Publishing Online - Lulu (http://www.lulu.com) and type into its search box the words "Tall Tails of the South Pacific" Lots of Lincoln stories there which he may have been part of.:ok:

Mark3
31st Jan 2014, 00:23
No he is (was) a pilot, Bruce Martin.

Chris2303
31st Jan 2014, 06:42
I had a friend who was an RNZAF Canberra pilot in Malaya.

"Brick" Lucas - he died in the Erebus crash.

Centaurus
31st Jan 2014, 11:05
No he is (was) a pilot, Bruce Martin.

I knew Bruce and met him many times while at Canberra in the Sixties. Lovely bloke.

bugg smasher
26th Feb 2014, 21:19
The Canberra continued to float even after being rammed by the salvage vessel nose-on. A further ramming knocked off the fin and tailplane. Soon after the Canberra nose dipped under water and the fuselage reared to a vertical position, taking a further five minutes to sink slowly out of sight. In all, it had taken one hour and five minutes to sink the Canberra.

We are always looking for interesting places to dive and photograph, is there any mention in the book of an approximate location the aircraft was sunk, and what the depth might be?

Centaurus
2nd Mar 2014, 01:31
We are always looking for interesting places to dive and photograph, is there any mention in the book of an approximate location the aircraft was sunk, and what the depth might be?

Page 64 of "Sniffing and Bottling" says: "The Canberra was then dragged out past the reef into deep water (the sea was 500 metres deep off the edge of the reef).

The exact location is probably recorded in files held by the US military at Kwajalein.