Swiss Cheese ASA Style

[ypph1]

Australian air traffic control ‘loses’ large jet for hours
April 9, 2012 – 12:36 pm, by Ben Sandilands

In the early hours of Saturday 31 March Australia’s profitable but increasingly dangerous air traffic control system run by AirServices Australia ‘lost’ a Garuda Indonesia Airbus A330-200 with 222 seats for some hours while it was in Australian airspace on a flight from Bali to Sydney.

The situation apparently arose because of a staffing shortage in the air navigation service providers Brisbane control centre and communications or administrative failures which are now being investigated by the Australian Transport Safety Bureau (ATSB).

As a result, the Garuda flight, which the system had somehow lost sight of, was cruising unknown to controllers on a general south-easterly heading at 39,000 feet while an Air Asia X A330-300, with fitted with 377 seats, was cruising at 38,000 feet in an opposing north-westerly heading toward Kuala Lumpur, and at some stage while both were in the same area of the outback skies near the remote Curtin airport, the Air Asia X flight was authorized to climb to 40,000 feet, or right through the cruise level assigned to the Garuda flight after its departure from Denpasar.

The general sequence of events outlined to Plane Talking is that AirServices Australia in Brisbane took down the airspace around Curtin for some five hours soon after midnight Brisbane time on 31 March, declaring it a TRA or Temporary Restricted Area, after it couldn’t find two qualified air traffic controllers to meet a roster requirement.

In a TRA aircraft are responsible for arranging their own safe separation, a procedure which relies on all aircraft in the area listening to and talking to other aircraft on the correct frequency.

However for reasons that have not been determined, the Garuda flight was either left unaware of the TRA, or otherwise failed to gain approval to enter it, meaning no-one else would have even expected it to be there, somewhere.

When AirServices Australia found enough qualified staff to lift the TRA and bring it back under fully controlled separation the controller assigned to it noticed that there were details shown in his display concerning a Garuda flight that if it had left Bali when scheduled should be within his area.

Attempts by the controller to raise the Garuda flight were unsuccessful, and calls to Indonesian ATC were said to have been unable to determine if in fact it had even left for Australia as scheduled.

Soon after that the Garuda flight sought clearance to enter airspace controlled by Melbourne from a position in the airspace that should have been controlled by Brisbane.

Until shortly before that call this meant that ATC directions given to a number of international flights crossing the inland skies of the continent had been made without any knowledge or consideration of the movements of an additional large airliner.

It is believed to have been at this point that Air Asia X was told to climb from 38,000 feet to 40,000 feet. It is not clear whether or how it was known it was safe to this. The rule for passing through the altitude level of another jet when aircraft are subject to radio control and not within radar range is that at least 10 minutes must have elapsed after their positions have passed each other.

There are some very important factual and procedural details to be clarified by the ATSB investigation. If this was a trivial matter there wouldn’t be an investigation.

In the expectation that efforts will now be made to label this story scaremongering, several matters need to be keep in sight.


For Australian ATC to ‘lose’ a 222 seat scheduled airliner for several hours in a supposedly first world country because it can’t even staff its air navigation system or keep tabs on a flight is suggestive of criminal incompetence in AirServices Australia’s management. You don’t just lose airliners.
The responsible minister, Anthony Albanese, has already caused an ATSB inquiry to commence into the nature and frequency of AirService Australia’s record of recent failures in this matter.
There is a series of ATSB reports in which the failure of AirServices Australia to complete its recurrent training obligations or otherwise ensure the competency of its staff have been identified, and
Australia’s airlines have for some time been alarmed by the diminished quality and reliability of AirServices Australia, and have said so, on the public record.

http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2012/04/09/australian-air-traffic-control-‘loses’-large-jet-for-hours/

Its only a matter of time. When will Albo do something about this organization :ugh:

[apache]

Really? An a330-200 only has 222 seats?

And the -300 has 155 more?

I didn't know that

[Jack Ranga]

Things will only change in THAT organisation when:

* Accountants are no longer in charge of determining CORE & MATURE staffing.

* Training specialists are put in charge at the Training College.

* A return is made to setting a standard to be achieved BEFORE leaving the Training College. Therefore not wasting the fields precious few resources in sorting this mess out.

* A return to management integrity. That is: Excuses not being made for organisational failures. Admitting the problem and FIXING it.

There are probably a few others, feel free to add.................

[Old Akro]

Based on the current annual report there are 1,552 Air Traffic Controllers including trainees. The same report suggests (some job classifications are unclear - probably purposely so) that there are 1,400 managerial & admin jobs. It would seem to me that this is a key issue. Too many hangers-on for the number of guys doing the real work.

If you go through the CV's of the board members, I wonder if anyone on the board knows what the organisation does. The overhead to services ratio's are so far from best practice, that clearly no one is paying attention.

The sadness is that we pay for it while AsA has no effective accountability.

[Jack Ranga]

The ratio is far worse than that akro. I think it's more like 950 ATC's actually at consoles. The number of admin/managers etc has ballooned, there are titles in there that would baffle you..............

[cstleon]

Really? An a330-200 only has 222 seats?

And the -300 has 155
more?



Garuda Indonesia Airbus A330-200 - SeatPlans.com (http://www.seatplans.com/airlines/garuda-indonesia/seatplans/Garuda-Indonesia-A330-200-seat-map)

SeatGuru Seat Map AirAsia X Airbus A330-300 (330) (http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/AirAsia_X/AirAsia_X_Airbus_A330-300.php)

[The Green Goblin]

Sooner or later they will live up to their motto.

"Connecting Australian Aviation"

Unfortunately it won't be in the spirit of what the 'group huggers' and consultants envisioned.

I pray it won't end up like the DHL, or the 738 over the Amazonian jungle in class G.

[apache]

As I said... I didn't know that!

[ferris]

So, they can't staff the seats or keep track of the a/c, however, experienced controllers are not required?

A colleague (ex- AsA controller) got a rejection letter last week after applying to go back (for family reasons). 15 years experience, much of it in busy places abroad, but he isn't suitable, he alleges, due to relevant experience and "cultural fit".:rolleyes:

Obviously his "culture" of years of separating aeroplanes doesn't fit with whatever AsA is doing...........

[Jabawocky]

Apparently not :rolleyes:

[gobbledock]

Jack, your first post was spot on! Describes this bureaucracy perfectly. Under it's bureaucratic dictatorship the frontline is left understaffed, admin and support roles balloon and of course management grow fatter under the leadership of a guy earning $800k per year! Training is sub standard, manpower deficient and the organizations direction abysmal.
Yep, Albo doing a fine job of his portfolio?

Government does a fine job of breeding parasitic management of organizations like Air Services and CASA, and let's not leave out the under resourced ATSB out of the loop.
In the meantime the countdown clock to a major hull loss continues along it's not so merry path, the spinners keep spinning, the politicians and their puppets grow fatter and the bureaucratic pile of steaming pony poo gets smellier.

Out of the three organizations the ATSB won't be the first to cross the 'Race To The Bottom' finish line as they have the privilege of mopping up after the event. The main two contenders for this not so prestigious award are Teams Russell and Skull.

I would like to see both Sandilands and Phelan rewarded for their under appreciated passion for exposing and highlighting the fundamental flaws and incompetence in the Australian aviation governmental bodies. These 'offices of the Minister' are what could be described at best as 'a frightening joke managed by a conglomerate of bureaucratic shysters'.

Tick tock

[Capn Bloggs]

SLOP 1nm right, thanks Bloggs. And keep those eyeballs peeled!

[Jack Ranga]

Bloggs, 1nm right wont help you in a crossing situation!

[Jabawocky]

plus 350 feet then as well :oh:

Just dont tell the other guy....

[Jack Ranga]

Unless you're on radar (or ADSB) :E

[Capn Bloggs]

Unless you're on radar (or ADSB)
In which case, I'd get pinged for slopping.:{ Oh, hang, on, there's nobody watching the screen, is there? :}

[Jack Ranga]

A colleague (ex- AsA controller) got a rejection letter last week


Must be on the black list? This supposedly does not exist anymore. P & C's influence in these matters is slowly subsiding. From what I've heard this area is in turmoil at the moment.

If I was him I'd be e-mailing Mr Xenephon, Mr Sandilands and his 'nominal' local member.

[WaynerMenard]

I think it's more like 950 ATC's actually at consoles.

[ferris]

Must be on the black list? Probably is. The fact that they have one while still running TRA's (badly) speaks volumes about the management and their competence. Blacklisting people who leave- what is this, 1950? Coupled with the fact that the retirement wave has been looming for years- YEARS while they did nothing about it. :zzz:

Isn't pride one of the Corporate Deadly Sins? Certainly 'cutting off your nose to spite your face' is not new at AsA.

[Quokka]

Must be on the black list? This supposedly does not exist anymore...

If I was him I'd be e-mailing Mr Xenephon, Mr Sandilands and his 'nominal' local member.

...or he could join me, this Northern Summer, sipping a Pina Colada on a Caribbean island full of half-naked Scandinavian backpackers :p

[Kharon]

Out of simple curiosity and interest, how many 'crew' should there be; in an ideal, sane world.

Never thought about it much, but there must be a 'minimum' sort of roster, variable I guess but if we are chronically short on a regular basis, then it's a real worry. The troops may conceivably carry the odd shortage, Bloggs falls of push bike on the way to work, Jones has flu and Smith went to bucks party etc. so there are some holes to plug, but this must raise the issue of fatigue.

It's probably fine to cover the odd shortage, but on a regular basis? – I wonder how many are operating below par, simply because they're knackered.

Much is made of pilot, flight attendant, truck drivers etc time on duty, have the ATS troops got such a thing??.

[Nautilus Blue]

Kharon - ASA has a "robust fatigue management system" :ugh:, but there are only 3 rules that are inviolate when it comes to overtime. 10 hour maximum shift, minimum 8 hours off between shifts and maximum 10 shifts without a day off (day off being 30 hours including midnight to midnight). Everything else is about mitigating fatigue risks, rather than avoiding it. We actually have some shifts where the official advice is to "nap on breaks", and probably like any fatigue management system, there is no such thing as too tired to work.

I think ASA management realised their mistake a few years ago, even if they never admitted it. The college has been recruiting and training people as fast as it can for some time, it's just not fast enough.

PS Scarily enough, the 10/8/10 rules are part of ATC employment conditions, not fatigue management, and so are up for grabs in the CA negotiations.

[Quokka]

PS Scarily enough, the 10/8/10 rules are part of ATC employment conditions, not fatigue management, and so are up for grabs in the CA negotiations.

...and have not been derived from established knowledge of consciousness and sleep psychology.

[Kharon]

NB- Everything else is about mitigating fatigue risks, rather than avoiding it. Thanks for a good reply; thing is though it must be like flying, you get some 'horror stories' which can leave you drained for a day or so and really, given your druthers, a day off would be welcome.

I've often wondered about how you make an individually tailored 'fatigue plan' to suit the individual, would it becomes very complex and very quickly subject to open ended abuse?.

It intrigues me though, some guys can fly night shift and do well, then collapse in a heap on a change to day roster, others (me included) can go all day or night but, get held up or have to wait about a few hours and exhaustion sets in.

Quokka - and have not been derived from established knowledge of consciousness and sleep psychology Yep, it's a puzzle, but I think 'modern' life is a factor not often considered, sometimes just getting to work on time is worth a day off. Anyway – as Fatigue Risk management is an inexact science, guess we'll just have to do what we have always done. Grin and bear it.

But it would be nice to know that this hole in the famous cheese was plugged up and could never be an element in the unthinkable.

[Nautilus Blue]

In a sense there is an individual fatigue plan, if you are tired don't go to work. If this means going sick or declining overtime then so be it. It is open to abuse (very workplace has one), and if you are going sick once a week due fatigue the I think its reasonable for management to suggest this job isn't for you. Conversely there is also usually someone who will grab every scrap of overtime they can get, often going sick on rostered shifts as a result.

Which circles back nicely to the original cause of the TRA, if its anything like the group I'm in. A roster that provides barely enough staff at any given time and not enough staff to actually fill that roster so the buffer provided by overtime is often already used up.

...and have not been derived from established knowledge of consciousness and sleep psychology

Those rules are over 20 years old so probably predate most research. However, they provide more protection than FRMS2 (ASA's current system).

With regards to the "black list", in my darker moments I wonder if its "pour encourager les autres" as much as to punish deserters.

[flightfocus]

The ASA yes men are ONLY interested in "service continuity" - screw everything else. Gotta keep Albo happy so he can continue delaying the YSSY 2nd airport decision.....

Greg & Co have torn the guts out of the operational side of ATC. Tripled middle management with a flawed management restructure a few years back - never recovered. Wanted to make them more accountable for Admin duties among others. All under the guise of reducing admin staff, however as has been highlighted in an earlier post the hangers-on in Canberra are breeding at an exponential rate. Hell rumours are that they need a 1 (yes ONE) day course in moving from one floor to the next in the same building!!!

No questions, no investigations - just more band aids. Controllers are being compromised by this structure and the continued denial of the current problems - never mind the problems looming on the resource horizon.

They have re-jigged the measurement of staff numbers so as to justify the existing shortfall - the old "hire the consultant that gives you the answer you want" management theory.

NO, I REPEAT NO frontline controllers go to work wanting a front page BOS incident. They are being let down by an inept management that is living in denial and continues to use bigger and bigger whips so that everyone jumps as ordered.

Big tip of the hat to Ben Sandilands and Co for continuing to pursue this story and I hope that he can expose the truth before some poor overworked, under appreciated, under paid controller has a REALLY bad day.

Keep asking the questions!!

[Sarcs]

Big tip of the hat to Ben Sandilands and Co for continuing to pursue this story and I hope that he can expose the truth before some poor overworked, under appreciated, under paid controller has a REALLY bad day.



TICK TOCK as Gobbles would say! Don't worry Ben is still on the job:Qantas 737 and Air China in NT collision risk scare | Plane Talking (http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2012/04/12/qantas-737-and-air-china-in-nt-collision-risk-scare/) :ok:

[Kharon]

I do apologise for a lack of knowledge here, but in my own defence “we” (the lads) the pilot body always thought it was not a bad 'gig' on the ATS side of things. Not so ?, apparently.

There is (or was) a very strong union which, we believed by protecting their 'troops' were protecting 'us' in Australian skies. I, for one am always bloody pleased to be back 'in home waters', even Darwin has made me smile and feel better about things overall (after Ujung on HF). There has always been a feeling of 'Great – now we can relax'.

Look, I could dance about the daisy's all day here but; there is really only one question. Despite the best efforts of our dedicated, esteemed colleagues in the ATS are our skies as safe as we suppose them to be ?.

I don't mean in some fluffy, woozy, bean counter, PC sort of way. I mean 'fair dinkum'. Tales of Bullying, overtime, massive, unrealistic compliance expectations, under staffed, under trained, experienced people ignored; and, run by people who, it seems wouldn't know how to do anything but use a company credit card. Well – it's all starting to look a bit grim, ain't it.

If there is a problem, or even a hint of a problem, surely the travelling public and the aircrews need to know. Even if only in the spirit of 'advice'. “Your government can longer guarantee your safety in the sovereign airspace it controls”. TRUE/ FALSE.

I believe 'we' should know.

Selah.

[noknead]

Could anyone please tell me if the following reply at the bottom of the post on Crikey is serious or sarcastic? I really am not sure how to take it. Honestly, I can't seem to sort it out. I really hope it is sarcastic though, then the reply would make sense.

"dnsmax": Is that you direct.no.speed? Please PM me.


dnsmax
Posted April 9, 2012 at 4:43 pm | Permalink
Cmon Ben,

Everyone knows that Airservices is not short of controllers. The CEO has said so on many occassions. Hell, there is a whole bunch of press releases going back years calling the controller renegades. If they were short they would have taken the controllers union to Fair Work Australia to ensure that they work overtime and threaten them if they could not provide a reason why they forfeited a day off. Hell, if they were short, controllers would be called 2,3 even four times a day on their days off to come to work. Controllers would probably even be turning off their phones. And Airservices is involved in a massive restructure of the airspace requiring huge amounts of training for unknown gain – this simply could not happen if Airservices were short of controllers.

I don’t know where you get your information from Ben. Cmon! Airservices are definitely not short of controllers.

[Baileys]

Not sure if you are being sarcastic or not but, knowing the place, I think I would safely bet it is written sarcastically.

[indamiddle]

good luck guys, sounds like you need help.
Quokka, will be in the carribean july. what is the name of that beach?

[Baileys]

What you said here...

Tales of Bullying, overtime, massive, unrealistic compliance expectations, under staffed, under trained, experienced people ignored; and, run by people who, it seems wouldn't know how to do anything but use a company credit card.

Is a nice little summary of some of the major issues.

I haven't worked there for a long time now but I still say with no hesitation that you are safe in Australian skies. Some of the 'minor' stuff which is considered 'unsafe' and dealt with in such a serious manner by ASA, would be simply overlooked in a 'lets get on with it' approach in many other countries.

The Australian ATC system is robust and thorough for all its faults - maybe less so than 5 or so years ago though as there are more holes in the swiss cheese layers than before. But I personally would feel 100% safe travelling and flying there.

[gobbledock]

Quokka + Caribbean = ASA CEO!! Enjoy the 'work trip' Greg!

[Kharon]

Baileys - The Australian ATC system is robust and thorough for all its faults - maybe less so than 5 or so years ago though as there are more holes in the swiss cheese layers than before. But I personally would feel 100% safe travelling and flying there.

What, all day, every day - Hiundai ?? , then, I am sure the traveling public can sink back into their "lazy boy' chairs (Yclass) and just relax.

I only got here yesterday, wasn't born then. :D.

[sunnySA]

Everyone knows that Airservices is not short of controllers. The CEO has said so on many occassions. Hell, there is a whole bunch of press releases going back years calling the controller renegades. If they were short they would have taken the controllers union to Fair Work Australia to ensure that they work overtime and threaten them if they could not provide a reason why they forfeited a day off. Hell, if they were short, controllers would be called 2,3 even four times a day on their days off to come to work. Controllers would probably even be turning off their phones. And Airservices is involved in a massive restructure of the airspace requiring huge amounts of training for unknown gain – this simply could not happen if Airservices were short of controllers.

I don’t know where you get your information from Ben. Cmon! Airservices are definitely not short of controllers.

Doubt that there would be one ATC group in ASA that wouldn't benefit from more staff. The staffing numbers, although improving are really at a knives edge, increasing traffic (and not just through the major hubs), large numbers of staff with 30 years service who can retire with minimal notice.

More staff would enable the update of training programs, more staff would permit accrued annual leave and long service leave to be taken, more staff would enable operational ATCs to be released to the college to train the new recruits (rather than rely on retired ATCs, not that there's anything wrong with that...), more staff would enable more services to be provided (think Port Hedland, Wagga, Taree, Emerald), more staff would see an effective fatigue/staff management that doesn't rely on staff being called on their days off to fill a hole in a roster, more staff would enable direct operational input into the future ATC system (does it have a name yet)?

[Quokka]

Quokka + Caribbean = ASA CEO!! Enjoy the 'work trip' Greg!

No, but I'll take his salary... and his Platinum Credit Card... :E ...and give him a run for his money.

Sorry... that should read... the aviation industry's money. :=

[peuce]

Only 3rd hand, but .... recently heard that, after an internal review at the ATC Training College, it was decided not to employ more "blip drivers" (who drive the simulated aircraft in the ATC simulator) to fill the current shortage ... but to create 10 new Management Positions in the College.

Don't know the rationale behind it, but, on the surface, it seems to be a packet of poo :ugh:

[noknead]

Thanks for putting me straight.
Baileys, I wasn't being sarcastic.
Thanks all.:O

[alphacentauri]

Yeah, the internal review of the training college has resulted in the appointment of a new GM (like they need any more) who's grand total of training knowledge, pretty much = 0

I look forward to the seeing the improvement...

[BigSkyTheory]

Think I heard somewhere that the 'Learning Academy' is no more and it's now being called a 'School' again??

That'll fix it. :ugh:

[Nautilus Blue]

The important thing is though that college has been removed from HR, and the head of training now reports direct to the CEO. That has to be an improvement.

are our skies as safe as we suppose them to be ?.

Could be better, could also be worse. I don't know of any ATC that won't fly as a passenger, yet. Personally I'd not fly at night, and if it weren't for TCAS I'd be worried. Most of the small percentage of the public who care would have trouble seeing past the spin, and there is only one way to prove there is a problem. Almost certainly it will get worse before it can get better.

[Kharon]

NB. - I don't know of any ATC that won't fly as a passenger, yet. Personally I'd not fly at night, and if it weren't for TCAS I'd be worried. Most of the small percentage of the public who care would have trouble seeing past the spin, and there is only one way to prove there is a problem. The public should be made bloody well aware. The incumbent Minister surely must be culpable if there is an unthinkable.

Is it getting really, really messy out there ?. They talk about holes in the sacred cheese. Lets look at the ones we have lined up right now:-

Is CASA moribund; only capable of generating pointless, half baked administrative show cases, an endless amount of smoke, mirrors and a defence which reckons they have no responsibility ?. The whole sad, sorry edifice seems dedicated only to baffling Senators, Coroners, the Judiciary and any one else who crosses their twisted path.

Is ATSB emasculated ?; does it appear as the starved child of a loveless union. Bullied and beaten into cringing submission until the will to resist; let alone publish anything vaguely resembling a honest appraisal of the most probable and ranked contributing causes related to the incidents ?. The whole sad, sorry edifice seems dedicated only to baffling Senators, Coroners, the Judiciary and any one else who crosses their twisted path.

Is the ASA apparently suffering a combination of Casaititis and Atsbaphobia ?. At least the front line troops may hold their heads up. They have to; highly visible, easily located and providing an endless supply of ready to hand cannon fodder for the speedy abrogation of all responsibility. The whole sad, sorry edifice seems dedicated only to baffling Senators, Coroners, the Judiciary and any one else who crosses their twisted path.

If it was all found to be true, there is at least a Ministerial head in a metaphoric bucket available here. We only need an axeman to do the job; even only if for so small a reward as ensuring the travelling public may travel at night and have a fair chance of getting off at the other end before the pubs close.

Steam off.
Mutter, curse, mumble, curse, Click.

[gobbledock]

Is CASA moribund; only capable of generating pointless, half baked administrative show cases, an endless amount of smoke, mirrors and a defence which reckons they have no responsibility?.The whole sad, sorry edifice seems dedicated only to baffling Senators, Coroners, the Judiciary and any one else who crosses their twisted path.
Correct Kharon, you score a prize - 12 months free subscription to 'Flight Safety Pony Poo'.
That is their quest in life. To create spin and deflection and run from accountabilty. They cannot oversight or manage their own internal issues let alone negate the requirements of the aviation industry in all it's complexities. As an example talk to the new 'CMT participants' and you will learn that it has already disintegrated at the seams. Inspectors not allowed to travel to conduct work 'live in the field' due to 'budget restraints'. They are being advised to regulate via a keyboard! As if that works? Heaps of cost cutting taking place with these funds used to fund the Skulls golden dream of a training center of excellence in Brisbane! I am sure some of the re-budgeted lucre is also paying for senior heirachy to indulge in some additional international hoohah.

Is ATSB emasculated ?; does it appear as the starved child of a loveless union. Bullied and beaten into cringing submission until the will to resist; let alone publish anything vaguely resembling a honest appraisal of the most probable and ranked contributing causes related to the incidents?. The whole sad, sorry edifice seems dedicated only to baffling Senators, Coroners, the Judiciary and any one else who crosses their twisted path.
Correct. And again, Kharon you win a prize - This time you get to pick from the middle shelf. Up for grabs is a free SMS assessment, a ticket to the next CASA safety workshop at Tenterfireld or an oepning day pass to the Brisbane Field Office 'Center for Training Excellence'!
And yes the ATSB has been raped by bureaucrats who have recategorized incident/accident rankings, added some bureacratic garnish such as 8.7 investigations completed per 1000 hours investigative time, or some similar styled number fluffing techniques. The heart and soul of the ATSB has always been it's non politically stymied Investigators and the quality work they attempt to undertake on a shoe string frontline budget while being dominated by the Ministers whips.

Is the ASA apparently suffering a combination of Casaititis and Atsbaphobia ?. At least the front line troops may hold their heads up. They have to; highly visible, easily located and providing an endless supply of ready to hand cannon fodder for the speedy abrogation of all responsibility. The whole sad, sorry edifice seems dedicated only to baffling Senators, Coroners, the Judiciary and any one else who crosses their twisted path.
Again we have a winner !! Kharon, step right up and claim Australian Aviations Brown Logie Award. The Minister (rightful owner) is happy to pass it on personally!
Sadly ASA have been infected by a host parasite called Bureaucrat****is, a disease that is flourishing within Australia and spreading at an alarming rate within aviation and infastructure. The disease, which has been prevalent for eons within all walks of governemnt at all levels has become more recently discernable as the outbreak spreads uncontained. Symtoms often include the existence of lies and deception, spin, mathematical perentages banded about, overseas trips for cure finding missions, a distortion of the tongue in which words such as robust, underpinning, overarching and 'worlds best practise' are often spewed forth violently and reptitively.

We only need an axeman to do the job; even only if for so small a reward as ensuring the travelling public may travel at night and have a fair chance of getting off at the other end before the pubs close.
There is a high likelihood that the end result will be the occurence of TICK TOCK unless Axeman Xenophon can use his wood chopping skills to cut down this pillar of pony poo.

[twa12]

Did hear a rumour that head of school might becoming from a well spoken, technical background person non-atc.

[Kharon]

To quote the Bard, (Toofey d' Brudge) – “if he could find a chook, in a chook house with a candle”; it would be a bloody site better than the purblind, home spun pony pooh we are 'hearing' about now. http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/sowee.gif

Sandilands (Plane talking) is definably on to "it'; the tent children appears to be on fire.

GD – No apology – Tick tock indeed; and Noco (Cahones) watches as home burns. The silly sod doesn't even realise he is responsible even if he's retired to a high class chook house in a noise sensitive suburb, with hot and cold running kerosene showers.

Stone the bloody chooks. How ?, (someone tell me) in all the Hells would the country's reputation survive a mid air, now this sorry saga is all slowly becoming public knowledge.

A lot of good “standard” mandatory radio calls will do then. :ugh:

[halfmanhalfbiscuit]

As an example talk to the new 'CMT participants' and you will learn that it has already disintegrated at the seams. Inspectors not allowed to travel to conduct work 'live in the field' due to 'budget restraints'. They are being advised to regulate via a keyboard! As if that works? Heaps of cost cutting taking place with these funds used to fund the Skulls golden dream of a training center of excellence in Brisbane!Surely the inspectors need to get out and oversight industry. Certainly the Auditor General in Canada believes so.

Auditor General raises red flag over Transport Canada’s oversight of aviation safety

While Transport Canada requires yearly inspections, 70 per cent of aviation companies in Canada were not inspected in 2010-2011, Auditor General Michael Ferguson
Canada News: Auditor General raises red flag over Transport Canada (http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/politics/article/1155743--auditor-general-raises-red-flag-over-transport-canada-s-oversight-of-aviation-safety)

[Sarcs]

Is it just me or are these 'breakdown of separation' events becoming so commonplace that no one even bats an eyelash, I guess you could say that all the 'heavy tin' has TCAS these days....."ho hum"! or "tick tock"!

Ben's latest ATC/ATSB grab: Jet airliners played tag near Melbourne Airport says ATSB | Plane Talking (http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2012/05/02/how-jets-played-tag-near-melbourne-airport/)

[Kharon]

Snowy heard a whisper today, there are some positive steps, in the 'right' direction being taken, driven from quite high up. Any truth in it ??.

Curious and without fanfare even more so. Would be nice to say thanks, just for once.

[Jack Ranga]

In the good old days a jet didn't climb out under 300kts. It was published in our books. Then the accountants told the company to tell the pilots to climb at 'econ' speed or 'cost index' speed (whatever any of that means?). Nobody told the ATC's, got a few 'surprises' when it first started happening. Asking the pilot in front to climb not below 300kts fixed it.

Any inquiry conducted into these incidents wont give the real reason why these BOS's are happening with monotonous regularity. I can tell you some of the reasons, it started you know where, when someone who trained bank tellers believed that 'anybody' could do ATC. By the same premise, that means that 'anybody' could be a doctor.........right? Anybody could fly an FA18 mission into Iraq............right? Anybody could be a trapeze artist?

[Blockla]

'anybody' could do ATCEffectively true, as long as you have two arms can hold some ping pong bats and don't mind getting wet... oh no wait???

[ferris]

No thoughts of returning to the Evil Empire, Blockla?

[Kharon]

Any one catch the Melbourne - "Herald Sun" piece today.

Who knows - it's interesting though, when the CASA super spin - voice is onto it before the ink was dry. Hear it's been on Sky News. Still a rumor network ain't it ??.
Melbourne's crowded airspace dangers

Updated: 09:31, Monday May 7, 2012

Melbourne's crowded airspace is leading to dozens of close calls every week, according to a dossier compiled by the Herald Sun.

The paper said planes too close together, unsafe landings and mechanical malfunctions are putting thousands of lives at risk in the skies over Victoria.

The catalogue of chaos includes smoke or fumes in the cabin, pilots tracking for the wrong runway or airport, and birds flying into planes.

Other issues include dangerous goods on board such as explosives and carbon dioxide cylinders, communications system crashes, incorrect data entry or settings on flight computers, and call-sign mix-ups.

Many of the incidents go unchecked because safety authorities don't have the staff or resources.

'Experts have warned the crowded airspace above Melbourne, combined with fatigued pilots and air traffic controllers, could prove fatal on a mass scale,' the newspaper said.

Australian and International Pilots Association vice-president Richard Woodward was worried that financial conditions were driving all airlines to cut costs, including safety expenses.

'When things get a bit pear-shaped, they don't have the skills to recover, Mr Woodward said.

But Civil Aviation Safety Authority spokesman Peter Gibson said it was wrong to link the number of reported incidents with safety issues.

'Aviation is an extremely safe way to travel,' he said.Sorry - no link - Sky News crib. Poor old Journo's, someone should tell them how things are.

[Frank Arouet]

When the regulatory abilities of Airservices were taken from them and given to the CAA, the point of contact is probably Peter Gibson who will talk rubbish to you and blame AsA.

Just another of Mrs Palmers graduates.

It may be of interest to see how a certain representative body behaved in the YMML airspace steps, mostly done to discredit Dick Smith and a highly experienced Heavy RPT Captain, by a Private VFR Day pilot with no practicable experience, advocating non standard step slope.

No wonder they have meetings in telephone box's.

Tick Tok Peter!

[thorn bird]

I heard there's a new charity raffle going around CASA.
First prize is a week, all expenses paid, at the new BN training school!!
Second prize is two weeks, all expenses paid at the BN...... Oh:}

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

AAhh....

Just give him the 'Area QNH'...and pi55 him orf.....

:}:ugh:

Service..?? Wot service..??)

[Roger Standby]

You'd be amazed at the lengths they go to to avoid hiding the lack of staff numbers. In the old days, an ATC group (eg 3 or 4 sectors) would have a published minimum staffing level. That number would vary throughout the day depending on traffic levels.

As an example, a 4 sector group might have a requirement to have at least 7 controllers rostered and a minimum of 5 working allowing for sickies. If these minimums weren't met, an ESIR was put in and explanations would be required. It was a safety event! Notams were also issued.

Over time, these minimums were reduced and reduced until the paperwork trail and the embarrassment became so regular that the documents were scrapped and there is no longer any trail of when these situations take place. The minimum staff requirement for the 4 sectors these days is simply 1. As long as one body is sitting in a chair and the sectors can all be combined up and there is no declared TRA/TIBA, then minimums have been met.

Traffic metering? NOC help?? pfft! A break should be provided every two hours and is supposed to be mandated at least every 3 hours but often this just doesn't happen. Need a pee? Wait until a supervisor deems he isn't **** scared enough to sit and watch the screen for 3 minutes while you duck out for a quickie and leave nobody qualified to watch YOUR airspace. Better be careful tho, that supervisor is not responsible for what happens while you are gone.

Oh, the next shift has just gone down as well. Would you mind extending your 0600 shift through to 3pm? You can still legally make it back for the night shift tonight at 2300! Or better still, extend to 1600 and we'll come up with something in the meantime and get you back at midnight instead.:rolleyes:

[Sarcs]

Roger Standby good post! From the heart and, dare I say, from a frontline tin pusher who knows and has experienced the decline.:ugh:

Which makes it all pretty scary stuff when your out there ploughing holes in the sky and keeping the blue bit on top....while one of you poor buggers are potentially distracted by having to hang on because of a **** scared supervisor waiting for a break in the traffic....sheesh...tick bloody tock!:{

[Kharon]

An honest unit. I know this is a 'pilots' forum, but all day, every day, (Hiundai) we, (the pilots) depend so very much on what this group of unsung folk do, it's scary. Like dependable engines, when the doo doo (rare occasion) hits the windmill, there is the calm quiet voice of hope; fully trained and qualified, fit to work, not fatigued with back up.

I, like many depend on the fact (hope now) that they are there when most needed, it's an almost symbiotic relationship. Rarely does an ATC (stuff the spin) or FSO misread the unspoken prayer for service. Brothers in arms ?, you could say so without too much fear of contradiction.

Thank you Mr. Livingston, Selah.

That the ATC guy is whacked out, fatigued, buggered about or not able to go for a wee wee is unacceptable. If ever there was a need to ensure service it is now; perhaps the Naval check "3 greens" should be reinstated, for civil use. At least half the silly buggers would the check Gear Down somewhere between 1500 and 384 feet; but, who would be responsible for that?,

As Grip Pipe would say, yes Minister – it's all bollocks (at 300 knots a piece, (that's 600 knots closing which is 10 nautical miles per minute).

CASA fuss over pilots 1 minute on duty, but ATC (their remit), oh well, the lads and laddetes will cope.` Probably through sheer professionalism , but for how long?.

Steam off. :ugh:

[gobbledock]

Roger Standby, 10/10 mate. Sadly what you are saying does not come as a shock.
How about Russell's salry be trimmed back to 250k, bonuses removed and maybe that money be converted into frontline manpower? Just a thought to begin with.

Senators, the public, and anyone with an ear - Are you hearing what we can hear? Yes you can did you say? You hear the 'tick tock' of the clock? Good.
The above example is amazing, incompetent Supervisors and a Controller that cant even take a piss due to staff shortage. Excessive fatigue and a host of other 'holes' are continuing to line up..Bloody disgrace.

[Hempy]

It all started when the CAA was split and ASA was formed as a Government Business Enterprise, therefore no longer a 'public service' but existing to turn a profit and fork out a dividend into the big fat general revenue bucket each year. With status as a GBE, and more importantly transition to TAAATS, came wonderful new management principles...'Business Units', cost cutting, executive bonus's, empire building...and the bureaucracy increased exponentially.

In the mean time the training organisation was gutted (resulting in an Australia Day commendation from the CEO to the guttee...), the training of new controllers essentially stopped, rated controllers continued to leave, either retiring or leaving for the overseas job market ironically opened to them by ASA, and consoles became harder to man. Rather than admit that, while looking sensational on that financial years bottom line, it may have been an error long term in culling the training annex, faith was placed in a magnificent new way of managing less staff more efficiently...SDE. The fact that SDE is in fact less efficient than the previous group/team systems isn't either recognised or accepted at executive level, for obvious reasons, but it's true. And now ATC's have to risk their licence and/or the traveling public's safety to have a wee.

^^^ This is affordable safety.

[5miles]

... and ASA was formed as a Government Business Enterprise

Airservices isn't and has never been a GBE. The Board's governance described it as a legislated corporation (if memory serves correct).

Practically speaking, not too much different from a GBE but the Board has restrictions as to how far they can venture from the core business'. Good intent when formed, but probably hasn't made any difference when it comes to management ineptitude.

[ferris]

It's been an interesting exercise.

Instead of 10 clerks doing a role (say, payroll), they have 4. Of course, the 'manager' in charge (of whatever wanky name that dept now gets called), is on a massive salary with all sorts of 'performance incentives'. Probably cost neutral, but 5 less staff.

What's that, you say, staff numbers in total haven't gone down? Less people who actually do things (such as ATC), and many, many more people who are 'business development executives', 'stakeholder relationship managers' etc. etc.

The 'business', however, returns money to the govt.... Lets not mention that they charge for everything and don't provide much a service to aviation anymore (briefing offices, FSOs, etc. etc.).

The biggy (which the airlines don't seem to grasp) the cost shifting that goes on when AsA doesn't do things (like- provide controllers for volumes of airspace which are then flow-constricted or just closed, costing the airlines mega dollars in delays and track-miles). One day, someone will wake up, and realise just how much this illusion of productivity is costing the country.

But hey, the CEO gets a salary befitting a CEO, instead of a public servant's salary. :rolleyes:

[Hempy]

Airservices isn't and has never been a GBE. The Board's governance described it as a legislated corporation (if memory serves correct).

Practically speaking, not too much different from a GBE but the Board has restrictions as to how far they can venture from the core business'. Good intent when formed, but probably hasn't made any difference when it comes to management ineptitude.

Fair cop, pretty fine distinction (http://www.finance.gov.au/property/gbe/index.html) though. The fact remains that ASA exists to turn a profit for the government, regardless of the "safety" and "service" veneer.

Love to hear their definition of 'core business'....

[Sarcs]

Another BOS event investigated by the ATSB has been released:


The Australian Transport Safety Bureau (ATSB) established that the controller's mental model for separation correctly identified the situation and included a plan to manage the traffic. However, the instructions that were issued to the pilot of the G-IV contradicted that mental model in that the controller cleared the G-IV for descent through and below the level being maintained by the 737. The progression towards the BOS continued when the controller did not recognise the error during the G-IV pilot's read-back of the clearance.
Ultimately, the controller's earlier correct level input into The Australian Advanced Air Traffic System allowed a system alerting function to activate. In response to that alert, the controller initiated compromised separation recovery actions to recover the required separation standard.
The ATSB identified a number of human factors and individual work processes that contributed to the occurrence. In addition, a safety issue was identified in respect of differences in the traffic alert phraseology between the Manual of Air Traffic Services and Aeronautical Information Publication (AIP). These differences increased the risk of non-standard advice being provided to pilots by controllers during compromised separation recoveries.
In response to this safety issue, Airservices Australia (Airservices) amended the AIP to enhance understanding of the criticality of any safety alerts and avoiding actions being provided to flight crew. This amendment came into effect on 28 June 12.


Investigation: AO-2011-127 - Breakdown of separation - VH-YVA/VH-CGF, 59 km NE Armidale, NSW, 8 October 2011 (http://atsb.gov.au/publications/investigation_reports/2011/aair/ao-2011-127.aspx)

So ATCers is the above amendment too little, too late? Is there more they could do to lessen the occurrence of these 'BOS' events (other than a frontal lobotomy of the execs)?

Good to see Ben Sandilands is still on the job::ok:

Air traffic officer had mental problem in AU near miss case | Plane Talking (http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2012/07/31/air-traffic-officer-with-mental-model-problem-sent-biz-jet-head-on-toward-virgin-737/)

[Baileys]

Individual controllers could do their job?

[Nautilus Blue]

So ATCers is the above amendment too little, too late?

You tell me,

Previously - TRAFFIC ALERT, TRAFIC IS ....., TURN LEFT/RIGHT HEADING ... IMMEDIATELY

Now - SAFETY ALERT, TRAFFIC IS ..., TURN LEFT/RIGHT HEADING ... IMMEDIATELY AVOIDING ACTION

PS "Air traffic officer had mental problem..." is misleading and sensationalised enough to make a tabloid proud.

ETA, interesting but overlooked element from the report,

Airservices National ATS Procedures Manual (NAPM) states that:18
A CLAM is a high priority alert and on receipt of the alert a controller must assess the integrity of the alert and shall ensure that separation is maintained if the alert is valid.

So its a high priority alert, and the first response is to assess its validity :ugh:

[mikk_13]

Probably would not have happened if there were two sets of eyes on the board.

But it isn't worlds best practice in australia, just in the rest of the world.

[gobbledock]

But it isn't worlds best practice in australia, just in the rest of the world.But I am sure that Russell and his Russellites would have used the pony pooh phrase 'world's best practise' in some of their monthly reports to the Minister for Mascot's office? They would have used 'world's best practise' in some of their spin doctoring and political wankery too......

[le Pingouin]

So its a high priority alert, and the first response is to assess its validity :ugh:That's because there are a number reasons it can be triggered, not just a level bust. At the edge of radar coverage levels can jump, aircraft in close proximity can cause garbling of the transponder returns and even swap levels, and sometimes a glitch just happens. If we clear you "when ready" it will go off after a while because you haven't vacated.

[Jack Ranga]

Thing is & and we all know it....

Do you want a CBT trained controller or somebody who's not trained according to political correctness?

[Sarcs]

Another BOS! Bad hand over gets the blame this time...

http://atsb.gov.au/media/3624100/AB2012088.pdf#page=24

Ben's take..

Air China, Qantas too close when Australian ATC forgot them | Plane Talking (http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2012/08/03/qantas-air-china-jets-flew-too-close-after-australian-atc-forgot-they-were-converging-at-same-altitude/)

I hope all these 'events' are being cc'd to Albo's circus!:E

[gobbledock]

I hope all these 'events' are being cc'd to Albo's circus!http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/evil.gif
Better still, would love to be a fly on the wall and see the reaction on Albo and his band of merry trough dwellers faces when the first mid-air or mountain top smash occurs. Every day that goes by we get a day closer.Nothing is changing expect for the fact that the stakes are getting higher and the day is getting closer!
Tick tock

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ9a0q-25W4ejgcmIfhNvHvgLma0KNRLx-ZPJz-Uj7F4cd7n5dx

[Kharon]

Sandilands - BOS (http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2012/08/03/qantas-air-china-jets-flew-too-close-after-australian-atc-forgot-they-were-converging-at-same-altitude/)

There are serious issues of professional and managerial competency in Airservices. They are being addressed in part by a broader study by the ATSB ordered by the Minister for Transport, Anthony Albanese, in February, and various changes in command in the air navigation services provider. :D

Music to read by.

[Robbovic]

"Metron Aviation Appoints Greg Russell as Executive Aviation Advisor

Dulles, Virginia - August 20, 2012 - Metron Aviation, a subsidiary of Airbus Americas and member of the Airbus ProSky Alliance, is pleased to announce the appointment of Greg Russell as Executive Aviation Advisor for the Asia Pacific region. Mr. Russell joins Metron Aviation from Airservices Australia where he was Chief Executive Officer and possesses over 30 years of aviation experience in developing strategies and applying technologies to transform the performance of air transportation systems.

Mr. Russell is a recognized Air Traffic Management (ATM) and Collaborative Decision Making (CDM) visionary who spearheaded Airservices Australia's initiatives to improve air traffic efficiency and environmental performance. During Mr. Russell's tenure, Airservices positioned themselves as a world leader in the utilization of cutting-edge technology to enable real-time collaboration among airline, airport and Air Navigation Service Provider (ANSP) operations. His key programs have produced dramatic, measurable benefits for Australia's aviation stakeholders, improving flight times, lowering delays and decreasing congestion, all while reducing emissions and fuel burn. Until recently he was Vice Chair of the Civil Air Navigation Service Organisation (CANSO) and Chair of the CANSO Asia Pacific CEO Committee."


HMMMM!!! For those of you who dont know, Metron are the suppliers of the CDM equipment and software purchased by Airservices.

[Up-into-the-air]

Mr. Russell is a recognized Air Traffic Management (ATM) and Collaborative Decision Making (CDM) visionary who spearheaded Airservices Australia's initiatives to improve air traffic efficiency and environmental performance.

Well, well, well

This is just another re-cycling trick - A bit like Bob Collins to PNG!!

[Mimpe]

I have always thought that Prof Reason's desription of aviation accidents as swiss cheese holes lining up a dangerous description, especially for training and learning purposes. It somehow implies that outcomes are naturally biased to safety, and that a long sequence of improbable events have to go pear shaped for serious events to occur.

A more helpful way to think of it is as "negative swiss cheese" - that is, that most or all critical components of a flight have been performed to a clearly safe level , for things to go " right". For significant components of the safety chain, one swiss hole may be all it takes. The other advantage of thinking about safety this way is that one day, when a really bad day comes along, the more things that routinely go "right", there is less tendency for compounding error ( ie as in AF 447) to take hold.

Also,early subtle fatigue can have a major impact on function well before self reporting occurs.

[Kharon]

Mimpe - Also, early subtle fatigue can have a major impact on function well before self reporting occursInteresting point – if you take, just for debate purposes, fatigue issues as a 'stand alone' risk.

A quick nasty analysis of say two dozen trucks all heading for the same parking area, all have been on the road all night. On the open road the chances of a fatigued driver having an accident are there, but the risk levels are low scale in comparison to a high density traffic situation, say morning rush hour. If the trucks are all due to arrive at about the same time, into a radio controlled unloading area; to keep things moving smoothly, the 'controller' would need, given the circumstances, to bring an A game performance to work.

Most of the drivers are knackered and at the terminal stages of the journey start thinking about getting out, not getting there. They all, in the terminal stages become dependant on the control, relaxing as the end of a long shift approaches.

Then the deck gets stacked; 25% of the drivers have done double shifts, 10% are sick, 20% have 'home' worries, 20% have money worries and the closer to home they get, the more prominence the problems assume. If the controller has the same problems, the seeds are sown. Someone in this (half arsed) mix has to be 'on the ball'.

We tend to think of 'fatigue as a 1 man issue; what I am trying (badly) to get at is the increased risk when everyone involved is fatigued, not just one. It must increase the risk levels?

I wonder just how deeply, and how often long term fatigue affects the very few coal face controllers we have? The ATSB stats for the last 12 months are 'interesting'.

NTSB. (http://www.ntsb.gov/safety/mwl-1.html)

Fatigue-countering mechanisms must include science-based, data-driven hours-of-service limits, particularly for professional drivers, pilots, mechanics, and air traffic controllers.
The medical oversight system must recognize the dangers of sleep-related medical impairments, such as obstructive sleep apnea, and incorporate mechanisms for identifying and treating affected individuals.

Employers should also (1) establish science-based fatigue management systems that involve all parties (employees, management, interest groups) in developing environments to help identify the factors that cause fatigue, and (2) monitor operations to detect the presence of fatigue before it becomes a problem.

Because “powering through” fatigue is simply not an acceptable option, fatigue management systems need to allow individuals to acknowledge fatigue without jeopardizing their employment.

[Sarcs]

Nick is on the job and I get the feeling he is going to kick some 'crat' butt next week at the Supplementary Estimates...Estimates daily programs – Parliament of Australia (http://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Senate_Estimates/Estimates_daily_programs)

Here's an excerpt from the last round of the Senate Estimates:

Question no.: 101
Program: n/a
Division/Agency: (CASA) Civil Aviation Safety Authority
Topic: Air Traffic Control
Proof Hansard Page/s: Written
Senator Xenophon asked:

I have been developing a growing disquiet about the state of Air Traffic Control (ATC) in Australia. Not only does it seem that there is a significant increase in the number of Breakdown of Separation (BoS) and Loss of Separation (LoS) events, but I am now hearing a lot about lack of resources, compromised training, fatigue issues and a repressive management culture. The message from the coalface is that things are getting worse, not better.

While I note the CASA evidence that a holistic examination of Airservices is underway, I can’t help wondering how effective the regulatory oversight of Airservices has been up until now, should these things prove to be true.

1. Have any Safety Cases been prepared in accordance with the provisions of Chapter 6 of the Manual of Standards Part 172 – Air Traffic Services?
(a) If so, how many?
(b) If so, what do they relate to?
(c) Have they been assessed by CASA as competent examinations of the issues?

2. Does CASA consider the Airservices’ Safety Management System (SMS) to be a mature system?

3. Does CASA consider the Airservices’ Safety Management System (SMS) to be an effective system?

4. Is CASA satisfied that the operational risks related to changes in the training systems and manpower planning have been adequately assessed and appropriately mitigated?

5. Mr McCormick stated that the individuals responsible for the oversight of Airservices Australia are all previous employees of that organisation. How does CASA ensure independence in the conduct of audits of Airservices?

6. It has been suggested to me that the Training and Checking system required by CASR Part 172 and by the Manual of Standards (MOS) has been severely compromised by underresourcing, particularly in terms of operational staff. Is CASA satisfied that Airservices have the required management and resources in place to ensure that all elements of the training and checking requirements (‘from cradle to grave’) are being consistently met?

7. Mr McCormick stated that “…If there is a large turnover then we would look to see if there was any generic issue; whether there is the same issue coming up, or why people have left…”

Given its monopoly Government Business Enterprise (GBE ) type status, how do you act on any management concerns you may have – particularly since it would be virtually impossible to “ground” them?

8. We are aware from our airline standards activities that there is a substantial amount of recent material on Safety Management Systems (SMS). The Advisory Circulars (ACs) for CASR Part 172 relating to SMS and Safety Cases date back to 2005. I am advised that those ACs are particularly lacking in substance compared to similar documents in other jurisdictions. Is there any plan to modernise those ACs?

9. Are ATS SMS audits conducted against the recent ICAO Safety Management Manual framework or against the very “lite” material in the CASR Part 172 ACs?
10. Are ATS Safety Cases assessed and audited against the recent material published by the UK CAA and EuroControl or against the older material in the CASR Part 172 ACs?

11. From a safety management and organisational perspective, ATS seems very similar to an airline. While I note your rejection of my proposed amendments to the Civil Aviation Act to mandate FRMS across the broad spectrum of “safety sensitive” occupations, I am quite surprised that there is apparently no regulatory requirement for Airservices to manage operational fatigue among its controllers. Is CASA considering a regulatory change to ensure that fatigue among controllers does not become an issue?

12. Although Airservices has adopted an FRMS, is it included as part of the CASA audit schedule, given that it is not legally required?

13. If you do audit the Airservices FRMS, now or at some future time, what benchmark will you adopt?

14. Given the monopoly position of Airservices, the safety of aircraft operated in controlled airspace has a very high dependency on the safe performance of ATS. I have some questions in relation to the safety and compliance audit program for Airservices.
(a) When was the most recent audit undertaken?
(b) What were the findings in terms of the number of observations and Request for Corrective Action (RCAs)/Non-compliance Notices (NCNs)?
(c) Where there any repetitive or recurring findings?
(d) Have all relevant areas of Airservices been audited over the last 3 years?
(e) If not, over what time period?
(f) How many audits have been conducted over the last 3 years?
(g) How many observations have been issued over the last 3 years?
(h) How many RCAs/NCNs have been issued over the last 3 years?

15. What has been the strongest enforcement action taken by CASA against Airservices over the last 5 years?

16. It is a key element of CASR Part 143 “Air Traffic Services Training Providers” that the organisation must be Registered Training Organisation (RTO) within the Australian Quality Training Framework. The Australian Skills Quality Authority (ASQA) is the national regulator of the vocational education and training (VET) sector.
(a) Is CASA delegated authority from ASQA to conduct RTO audits on Airservices to ensure continuing compliance with CASR Part 143?
(b) if not, has CASA requested the ASQA to conduct an RTO audit as part of CASA’s holistic examination of Airservices?
(c) if not, why not?
(d) when was the last RTO audit conducted on Airservices by ASQA or its predecessor body?
(e) how many RTO audits have been conducted by ASQA or its predecessor body on Airservices?

Answer:
1. Yes. CASA requires all Airservices Australia (Airservices) Civil Aviation Safety Regulation (CASR) Part 172 safety cases to be prepared in accordance with the provisions of Chapter 6 of the Manual of Standards Part 172.
(a) Since 2009 CASA has reviewed 11 Safety Cases.
(b) The reviewed safety cases related to the proposed implementation of Advanced Surface Movement Guidance and Control Systems, Required Navigation Performance, changes to the Australian Advanced Air Traffic System, air traffic control tower developments, and Wide Area Multilateration.
(c) Yes.

2. Yes.

3. Yes.

4. Yes.

5. The substantive Executive Manager of the Airspace and Aerodromes Division that oversights Airservices was not a previous employee of Airservices.

The independence and objectivity of surveillance activities is also assured by:
• employment of experienced and suitably qualified air traffic control specialists and auditors;
• establishing controls for objectivity and independence of audits;
• audit activities generally being conducted by teams of at least 2 auditors;
• internal procedural measures are established to ensure that an exclusionary period of time, usually 2 years, is applied to any auditor who may be called upon to audit a specialist area where they were employed; and
• employment of a number of staff who have gained broad and diverse industry
experience through previous employment in other State regulators, the Australian
Defence Force Air Traffic Services and other industry organisations.

6. CASA is satisfied that Airservices has a suitably documented process covering training and checking.

7. CASA regulates Airservices’ certificates by taking appropriate regulatory action as it does with other certificate holders. The responsive options available to CASA include the imposition of conditions and issuing directions to Airservices.

8. CASA considers CASR Part 172, the associated Manual of Standards (MOS), coupled with Airservices’ approved SMS, provides sufficient substance for surveillance of Airservices’ SMS performance.

The International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) is developing a new Annex that will consolidate all SMS aspects currently contained in various annexes. Similarly, CASA is currently exploring the possibility of developing a new CASR part which would deal with SMS applicable to all aviation organisations, including airlines and air traffic service providers. This part would bring together the requirements for SMS for all aviation organisations and would involve a review of SMS requirements, including guidance material, for each sector of the aviation industry.

9&10. Airservices has a SMS which must comply with the MOS for CASR Part 172 and forms part of its Operations Manual. It is appropriate that Airservices’ SMS performance is audited against its SMS rather than the ICAO Safety Management Manual or against UK or European SMS guidance material.

11. CASA considers fatigue risk management integral to the operation of Airservices’ SMS and has conducted recent surveillance of the improvements to Airservices initial ATS fatigue management system and no safety issues were identified during that surveillance.

Airservices’ fatigue risk management system reflects good practice and is consistent with ICAO Standards and Recommended Practices for ATC’s.

12. CASA audits Airservices FRMS as a component of its SMS.

13. CASA adopts benchmarks that reflect improvements in global practice and which conform to the Australian aviation regulatory standard in force at that time.

14. (a) The most recent Part 172 audit was conducted at between 7-11 May 2012.
(b) CASA issued 3 Noncompliance Notices and 9 Observations.
(c) A recurring finding from this audit was that some refresher training modules did not include a suitable means and criteria of assessing satisfactory completion of the training (as required by the Airservices Operations Manual). A Non-Compliance Notice was raised in this regard.
(d) Yes.
(e) Not applicable.
(f) CASA has conducted 64 Air Traffic Services-related audits.
(g) CASA has made 104 Air Traffic Services related Observations.
(h) CASA has issued 66 Air Traffic Services-related Request for Corrective Action
(RCAs)/Non-compliance Notices (NCNs).

15. CASA has undertaken no enforcement action against Airservices in the last five years.

16. (a) CASA is not delegated authority from ASQA to conduct RTO audits on Airservices.

CASA audits Airservices compliance with the requirements of CASR Part 143. CASA has conducted significant surveillance of the Training Academy in the last three years.
(b) No.
(c) CASA has not identified a need for a special ASQA audit of Airservices.
(d) CASA understands that the last RTO audit conducted on Airservices took place in 2008; the current registration being valid until 31 May 2013.
(e) CASA understands that, since 2003, the year CASR Part 143 came into effect, there has been one RTO audit of Airservices as referred to in (d) above.

[gobbledock]

CASA has not identified a need for a special ASQA audit
of Airservices.
(d) CASA understands that the last RTO audit conducted on Airservices took place in 2008; the current registration being valid until 31 May 2013.
(e) CASA understands that, since 2003, the year CASR Part 143 came into effect, there has been one RTO audit of Airservices as referred to in
(d) above.
There you have it. a safety critical part of aviation with next to nil oversight. But CASA has time to chase chopper pilots and punish pilots for forgetting to cross a T or dot an I in their log books?
How much is enough? Time to roll these clowns.

[Sarcs]

There you have it. a safety critical part of aviation with next to nil oversight.

"But wait there's more your Honour!"


Question no.: 96
Program: n/a
Division/Agency: (CASA) Civil Aviation Safety Authority
Topic: Air Traffic Controller Incident
Proof Hansard Page/s: 52 (23/05/2012)

Senator XENOPHON: It was put to me that there was an incident on 12 February this year, when there was a two-hour break in terms of the air traffic controller, the rated person, being away from that post and another person was there but not of the same equivalent rating. I think normally under the rules it is supposed to be for 20 minutes, but the rated air traffic controller is the one
who is responsible. Would you be concerned about a two-hour break period?

Mr McCormick: Yes, I would be. We have discussed with Airservices this principle of the short break and they are proposing some amendments to the procedure which we hope will address these issues.

Senator XENOPHON: Perhaps you could take on notice that incident that was put to me about 12 February.

Answer:
CASA has been advised by Airservices Australia (Airservices) that short breaks are not expected to exceed 20 minutes. Airservices conducted a review of the incident on 12 February this year and that review did not identify any evidence of a systemic problem but rather reflected on individual performance and Airservices has taken action to prevent a recurrence of the event.


Now let's get this straight here we have a mob that are known serial non-reporters, spinners of the truth and masters at the 'cover up' (although lately there's been several embarassing exposures of attempted cover ups) and Fort Fumble accept their word that all is sorted...hmm as gobbles would say "TICK TOCK"!:E

[owen meaney]

has Casa not closely supervising Airservices caused problems with traffic control?

[gobbledock]

has Casa not closely supervising Airservices caused problems with traffic control?
Aagh, no my friend, not at all. Why you ask? Aagh because they actually don't closely monitor ASA.
However, they do closely monitor Executive bonuses, overseas travel calendars, staff emails, the Ministers hotline etc.

[sixtiesrelic]

Gents, RTO ... well for me that means rejected take off, but in this case they're talking about Registered Training Organisation.
They haven't looked at the training school etc rather than this two hour thing.
Yeah! they don't want the training looked at too hard, seeing as a long gone manager stuffed that all up with new age management practises which is fancy bean counting.
If you give the poor no bread, you can tell someone higher up that you saved on the food bill can't you.

[gobbledock]

Relic old friend, wise words indeed. The CASA can't even get their own training area in order, let alone be in a position to understand or monitor what ASA does. Jeez, do they even know what the term or reference 'training' even means?? It's all bollocks run by pillicks.

[sixtiesrelic]

Gobbledock, you ain't in Alabama!
You must be here.

Management (everywhere) is like a bunch of teenagers.
They know everything because their mates keep 'em abreast of the latest thing.
Their parents know nothing... they're past it. It's a whole new world out there.
When they cock up; their mates leave 'em and hide and their parents have to sort the mess with their money and contacts.
When things are fixed, the teen struts around telling his mates, "They couldn't do nothin' too me. I wasn't scared."

Management cocks up and leaves for greener pastures and who fixes the mess?
The people on the ground.

A.S.A. ---- Pretend business with pretend managers!

[Kharon]

(Consultation is available, please see attached form; conditions apply).

1) That a suitably large paddock fenced to OH & S standards be leased.

2) That a Round up of all 'Crats be conducted and the whole mob yarded (in said paddock).

3) That the yarded 'crats be suitably equipped with (i) a Yellow Safety jacket and (ii) a large orange flag with the word "Safety" printed on it (in really big letters).

4) That a pensioner be hired to ride a push bike around the enclosure perimeter twice a day.

Operational overview) Every time the pensioner appears, the intent is that the yarded ones will stand, raise their flags, wave vigorously whilst robustly chanting "safety before profit". Thus, when the 'ride around' is complete, the yarded ones can return to limelight basking, troughing and perusing the provided scatology literature.

Operational aim) To yard the silly buggers, while humanely providing useful employment and shelter (UN policy) which will then allow the industry to get on and sort out the bloody mess left behind.

End view) Any dopey politician who even looks like opening its trap may be arbitrarily yarded for the duration of the clean up: N.B. they must provide their own flags; not made of money you know.

All those in favour say Aye. http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/thumbs.gif :D

[Nautilus Blue]

Airservices conducted a review of the incident on 12 February this year and that review did not identify any evidence of a systemic problem but rather reflected on individual performance and Airservices has taken action to prevent a recurrence of the event.

Translation - the manager who pressured someone below then into doing something dodgy, has now made then a scapegoat. To paraphrase Sir Humphrey, Safety Management is not about managing safety, its is about the safety of managers.

[Sarcs]

Breakdown of legal services costs...


Rural & Regional Affairs and Transport Legislation Committee
ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS ON NOTICE
Budget Estimates May 2012
Infrastructure and Transport
Question no.: 04
Program: n/a
Division/Agency: (CORP) Corporate Services
Topic: Legal Fees
Proof Hansard Page/s: 16 (23/05/12)
Senator McKENZIE asked:

Senator McKENZIE: I want to ask something on notice. It goes to the legal fees of the department and the agencies. From my rough calculations to a question on notice, we have over $10 million being spent on legal fees. I would like that broken down. We have $2 million from Airservices Australia. We have $1.7 million from Airservices Australia for another issue. The department has spent $1.2 million with the Australian Government Solicitor. Could I have further detail for the over $1 million in legal bills in the answer to question on notice 25?

Mr Mrdak: Certainly. We obviously have a number of legal actions which we deal with, I think, which are predominantly the areas covered by those larger expenditures. Obviously we appear in a number of corporate processes at a time. But I will get you some more detail in relation to those.

Answer:

Department of Infrastructure and Transport


Service category Cost

Commercial (contracts, property and construction,
procurement, grants and funding, intergovernmental
agreements and corporate law)
$380,896
Litigation and dispute resolution (debt recovery, tribunal and
court proceedings, employment law and enforcement)
$191.282
General advice (statutory interpretation, legislative drafting,
employment law and financial law)
$1,122,699

Australian Maritime Safety Authority


Service category Cost

General legal advice $605,268
Legislative drafting $477,453
New policy- National System $360,350

Airservices Australia


Service category Cost
Staffing and office support costs for Airservices Office of
Legal Counsel. $1,720,000

Service category Cost
External Legal costs covering such things as property,
employment and commercial matters. $2,144,000

Civil Aviation Safety Authority


Service category Cost

Salaries for 14 staff $1,014,909
Leave and employer super $234,359
Other overhead costs $309,190


You guessed it...hmm wonder what % of the 2.144 million was used for employment disputes?

[Kharon]

About 1400 EST tomorrow, marks the end of an era. It will quietly happen in the Senate and your comments on this subject have made it happen. Brava Ppruners, well done!, well done indeed.

I will not bang on about the sad state this industry is in, or the governmental agencies which have; in no small way, contributed to it's near demise. My thoughts, hopes and care for an industry I love, have been shared with some great folk here; infinitum; et tedium (and probably, ad nauseam).

My hope is that just for a short while, we can all stick together and rid ourselves of the invidious, often incestuous, expensive, non productive,. parasite on this industry, which has become our Civil Aviation Safety Authority.

Tomorrow is a start, the 22nd gives a slim (60/40 against) chance – the rest boys and girls; is really - up to you.

Selah – sleep well (if you can).

PS, the old man says Cheers (then rasps "about bloody time": Kilkenny rules. OK).
With the indulgence of T28 –

Macbeth:
To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.

[Angle of Attack]

I can't translate but I hope it's about dead wood being thrown out.

[gobbledock]

Anyone care to translate?
'K' can be descriptive at times can't he?? Basically he is pointing out that Fort Fumble will receive some pretty robust attention at around 1400 down in Spamberra. There is a slight chance that some senior muppets will receive some large pineapples for the decades of pony pooh that has been thrust upon this dying industry, hell I think 'K' is even hoping that some major turn of events will take place and one may see the Minister, Skull and Co, CASA Board and other assorted excess baggage will be sent packing all the way into retirement with those fat Government padded superannuation accounts and excessively plump bank ballances c/o the taxpayer.

However, don't hold your breath as the spin doctors, purveyors of pony pooh, the lawyers, the witchdoctors and the pollies have seen this coming for a while and they will be there, armed with documents, spreadsheets, surprise announcements and holding a fist full of polished turds in an attempt to spin their way out of the spotlight. Some in CASA have spent decades dry humping the taxpayer troughs and they certainly won't go out without a fight.

It may be a somewhat robust afternooon, so grab a brewskie or two, some popcorn and even a tub of vaseline cos it may be exciting.

[gobbledock]

VOTE 1 SENATOR X PRIME MINISTER OF AUSTRALIA!
http://www.abc.net.au/tv/talkingheads/img/nick_zenop_m1926734.jpg
Senator X For PM!

[Seabreeze]

so.... what has happened???

[Creampuff]

Nothing.

Yesterday's hearings were a complete yawn.

[gobbledock]

Yesterday's hearings were a complete yawn.
Much to Creamys robust liking!! Once a regulator always a regulator.

[Up-into-the-air]

Question??

Yesterday, 20th October, there were in-bound flights held up by 5 controllers reporting in sick on Saturday.

Some regional areas were really bad with 5 hour delays at Albury

Anyone know anything??

Not to do with the hearing on Monday??

[Capn Bloggs]

Did Greg ask you to send this to the world?

[Hempy]

A manager blaming his workforce for the fact that management can't manage their workforce......yep, classic ASA

[Hugh Jarse]

Perhaps Greg needs to get his secretary to do a spell and grammar check before hitting the "send" button to his minions.

Since when have we had an "international day of the air traffic controller"? Whilst they do a great job, I thought these days were reserved for such important things as cancer days, "speak like a pirate" and "Cleanup Australia". (Yes, that was supposed to be tongue-in-cheek).

Pull the other one, Mr. Atkins :}

[Creampuff]

This type of situation has become all to regular on weekends, so clearly some action will be taken.Ooooerrrrr. :uhoh:

Someones going to be called to the principle’s office. Cant give you to much info, but those of you dont get the hint are perhaps ignoring the rant’s of those who score the daily double: Leadership skills of a garden snail as well as illiterate.

[peuce]

From 1st November 2012, sick leave will only be permitted on weekdays.

Please do not seek exemptions ... as refusal often offends.

[gobbledock]

Indeed a very immature email from a Manager struggling to maintain control (and bonus?). Or did Greg have to pick up a headset and do some real work to help out?
I hope any staff member offended by his email contacts HR to express their displeasure.

Perhaps, Greg, you were short staffed because:
a) People do get sick, and
b) Nobody else wanted to work overtime? (Keep in mind Greg that you cant force someone to work overtime if they don't want to and you can't prevent people getting sick).

Finally, Greg, if you hired adequate staff levels maybe this tragic shortage of Controllers would not have occurred? Perhaps it is 'you who is in the wrong job'?

[gobbledock]

Oh no, has the trough been emptied?? Surely not.
New procedures curb new head of Airservices Australia

BY: STEVE CREEDY From: The Australian October 19, 2012 12:00AM

THE new head of Airservices Australia will be consigned to cattle class on short flights after a tightening of spending procedures at the air navigation provider.

Air Vice-Marshal Margaret Staib was appointed to head Airservices after the departure of former chief Greg Russell in May amid media coverage of his credit card expenses.

[flightfocus]

For those that are unaware, this is an email who has recently been 'Acting Executive General Manager' for ATC. :ugh:

It gives you an indication of the reason why Airservices is imploding. As alluded to, the bonus - scuttlebutt is up to 30% of base salary - is looking a bit shaky!

Prepare for more beatings, we are going to get this morale KPI up if it kills you!

[Kharon]

GD # 108 - THE new head of Airservices Australia will be consigned to cattle class on short flights after a tightening of spending procedures at the air navigation provider.

WOW. What a magnificent effort, that will really help get the show on the road. Boy, I can see it being taught in academies all over the modern world. "The 2012 Great air ticket solution".

[Nautilus Blue]

Saturday was IDATC, which as an ATC i find slightly cringeworthy, but these days everything short of breathing has an International Day.

ASA values

Excellence – we are the best we can be - and cover up all that isn't
Inclusion – we are diverse and involved - you will all get the blame for my mistakes
Cohesion – we are working together - you will do what I say
Initiative – we are making a difference - I will wallpaper over cracks in the dam with "initiatives"

Someone was recently lauded as a "Values Champion" because they wangled a way for supervisors not to have to work night shifts :ugh:

[Jack Ranga]

So it's only taken you 30 years Greg? Most of us became as embarrassed as we've ever been when the grinning idiot took over. You will have to look hard to find anybody that's done as much damage to ASA as that fool, blame him Greg, he and the moron he put in charge of the the training academy :cool:

Core, mature, blah, blah, blah.............

[Jack Ranga]

Go your hardest j-mo. You think anybody would be stupid enough to have a few drinks then call in sick, especially when there's more than likely a few managers at said drinks? If there were drinks?

There will be the typical ASA witch hunt, all in the name of saving face with the airlines, at which there will be found to be no hi-jinks, ASA making a fool of themselves, yet again. Look a little harder folks, do you ever wonder what 'operational requirement' is a euphemism for? Could it be 'staff shortage'? Nooooo, ASA would never use weasel dick words would it?

[Hempy]

dont feed the animals Jack

[cattledog]

Be assured there were NO Sydney drinks !!!!
That would cost money.
:=

[Cougar2063]

If there were celebratory drinks the night before, it certainly explains why ATC's who were rostered off on the morning in question would be unavailable to attend work at short notice.

I would never say yes to an AD if I had been out late having few drinks in my own time the night before. (As I would be entitled to....without interrogation)

[flightfocus]

Not sure how many of you read Ben Sandilands & Plane Talking, but he has shared his view on the Atkins email here:

Air traffic control shambles at Sydney made public in memo | Plane Talking (http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2012/10/24/air-traffic-control-shambles-at-sydney-made-public-in-memo/)

I am most impressed with a comment made to his blog by someone claiming they used to be an ATC Line Manager. It is a fabulously honest insight into the reality of what is happening within this organisation. I hope that Greg Atkins gets to read it.....

I have reproduced it here without permission but it is published on Plane Talking:

Ben – I used to be an ATC manager, 50 control tower staff in all, and I seem to recall this time of the year was always bad for absenteeism due seasonal flu and the like.

As was the practice at the time, I kept all of my endorsements current. As the day working manager I could fill gaps or even full shifts if necessary. I was if you like a spare controller. The last CEO allowed what are now called ATC Line Managers to keep only a token endorsement which removed at one stroke probably 8 – 10% of the available controllers.

The prime problem though is not that controllers are unable to work but that there is no-one to replace them. Most businesses get by if an employee does not come to work and the employee catches up when he/she returns. ATC is not like that. It is a high stress,24/7 shift working environment where the ATC gets four days off per fortnight. (And only one 2-day break in six will be a weekend) Well everyone else gets 4 days off you say but how many times do non-ATCs get asked to work on their days off? (Always week ends when all their friends are also off)

This, by the way, is not overtime as the world knows it, putting in an extra few hours to get a job done, this is five to seven hours sometime longer, on your day off. You have to cancel the day out with the family, cancel the golf game, say sorry you can’t attend the party, lose touch with your friends. (These are rarely other ATCs because they are at work when you are on days off!) So now you are down to three days off in the fortnight. Naturally you are not expected to give up yet another day? Wrong! The only thing that will save you is an industrial agreement that states that ATCs cannot work more than ten day in a row without a day off. That’s right it is not a CASA reg like flight time for pilots and flight attendants, it’s an industrial agreement and the only recourse you have is to Fair Work Australia, CASA seems to take little interest.

Another issue hidden from the public when controller shifts are discussed is the fatigue management system. This under the last CEO morphed from an apparently benign attempt to help shift workers assess their ability to present for work to a system that demands answers if you fail to accept an order to return to work.

Ben – you know I don’t get involved in Airservices issues on your blog because I post under my real name and prefer to work inside the organisation to effect change, but on this one I feel that the public does not get the full story.

I sincerely hope that our new CEO will breathe some fresh air into management / controller relationships so the controllers become once again a proud part of the organisation, instead of just a cost centre.

[Jack Ranga]

Whoops Hempy, sometimes muppets have to be brought to the attention of the mass!

[Sarcs]

I see Ben is still slugging away on behalf of you controllers, pity he seems to be a bit of a lone wolf in the media ranks...hmm that 'quick wins' keeps putting out really informative comments to back up Ben's pieces. Top job I've learnt a lot from the QW posts, hope you don't mind mate but I've quoted you here:
quick wins
Posted October 29, 2012 at 1:08 pm

· Ben,
You are absolutely right to report these continuous breaches – these are just the ones that make it to the public arena via ATSB that you get to see. The open reporting culture that existed just a few years ago has been greatly diminished by subtle pressure through to outright overt bullying and intimidation against individual controllers and indeed against their own ATC line managers to ‘manage’ and ‘counsel’ any ‘minor’ breaches ‘in-house’. I think your previous article about the inhibiting of the VOZ aircraft from SYD to BNE showed some indication of that. This is a sign of a couple of things: 1/ how worried senior management possibly are about the truth of how deep the organisation is in the mire, and their desire to keep it out of the press, and therefore out of the eyes and ears of the Minister, and 2/ how operational KPI’s are linked to the toxic structure that is ‘at risk’ salary components – or in straight language: bonuses.

Senior management or corporate affairs people who may read such claims will counter this as false, and tell you of their robust procedures and policies, anti-bullying policies, open reporting culture etc. etc. It is all just convenient manufactured ‘cover’ to be trotted out whenever an independent journalist like yourself, or and independent senator has the temerity to ask tough questions.

Ask the remaining operational people who have experience (a dwindling group), and most will tell you the chickens are coming home to roost, that the current ATC staff demographics and total resourcing has reached a point of ‘un-recoverable’. And they are not kidding. Sydney ATC is currently frantically trying to recruit internally experienced controllers to cover their soon to be retired workforce. This means grabbing them from other units who are already below minimum safe staffing levels – but they will be transferred to Sydney for one reason alone: politics. You see Sydney gets attention when it goes wrong. And Minister Albanese does not like attention. He is getting far too much of it for the wrong reasons at the moment with CASA and ATSB. Now does anyone seriously think Airservices Australia is immune to the types of things we are seeing in Senate estimates with CASA and ATSB?

Airservices are still engaged in a deeply flawed project to reduce the number of sectors that control air traffic in Australia, at a time when their own internal safety reviews, from their own internal safety specialists are telling them they are at high risk by NOT opening IMMEDIATELY, additional sectors to manage the huge increase in air traffic over the past five years. But they are effectively ignoring it. They are ‘rolling the dice’ as you put it. It is in a way understandable. Many of the senior managers come from outside of the organisation with little operational knowledge. Many will only stay three years or so. They can afford to take a three year ‘risk’ and then bail out to the next organisation. The operational staff however are there for 10, 15 , 20+ years. They will bear witness or involvement when the dice comes up snake eyes. So who is really carrying the risk? Apart from the travelling public!


QW you paint a pretty grim picture about the state of affairs in ASA; I only hope the Minister starts paying attention before it is too late!

Singapore Air, Qantas sent on collision course near Perth | Plane Talking (http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2012/10/29/singapore-air-qantas-flights-sent-on-merging-paths-near-perth-last-thursday/)

[Up-into-the-air]

I notice that the e-mail disappeared from this thread at #101.

Included below from a second copy of Ben Sandilands:


http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/r623/soilmaster/uploads%20to%20pprune/asa20thOctober2012.jpg

and maybe these are just gold plated:
http://i641.photobucket.com/albums/uu134/moo1031/avatars/pigsattrough.jpg

[Woodwork]

The prime problem though is not that controllers are unable to work but that there is no-one to replace them. Most businesses get by if an employee does not come to work and the employee catches up when he/she returns. ATC is not like that. It is a high stress,24/7 shift working environment where the ATC gets four days off per fortnight. (And only one 2-day break in six will be a weekend) Well everyone else gets 4 days off you say but how many times do non-ATCs get asked to work on their days off? (Always week ends when all their friends are also off)

This, by the way, is not overtime as the world knows it, putting in an extra few hours to get a job done, this is five to seven hours sometime longer, on your day off.

It's sentiment like this that fuels my opinion all ALMs ought to be required to have worked somewhere other than ASA and/or the public service at least once in their career.

The problems of shiftwork and replacing sick workers are NOT unique to ATC - your local plumber is just as stuffed if his apprentice fails to show for a two-man job as is your local TCU; any nurse who's ever worked in a public hospital is well familiar with what overtime really means (with no pesky limits on duty time or minimum rest periods); any fire fighter or police officer or ADF member can probably have a few things to say about cancelling days with the family or missing a game of golf.

ASA ATCs are extraordinarily well-compensated for a non degree-qualified job, and unlike RAAF ATCs, are free to resign at the drop of a hat should they ever feel like climbing down off the cross long enough to find a pen.

I don't mean to trivialise the original issue at question in this thread - certainly I think ASA could improve quite a few safety aspects - but pissing on and on and on about how hard you have life as a shift-working controller is tired. I'm a shift-working controller and I earn triple what my shift-working ER nurse wife does, for half the hours and considerably less peril of being stabbed.

[mikk_13]

pissing on and on and on about how hard you have life as a shift-working controller is tired. I'm a shift-working controller and I earn triple what my shift-working ER nurse wife does, for half the hours and considerably less peril of being stabbed.

It is not the shift work, it is a poor design of rosters that are there just to cover the lack of staff. It is being called at 9am after you finished work at 6am to come into work at 4pm. Yes, this happens. And then you make the slightest mistake and your career is over.

But hey, if you are happy to perform your duty tired, which exposes yourself to criminal prosecution for negligence, and also risking 1000s of lives, you should just sign up and enjoy work 10 days straight. Otherwise stfu

[Keg]

I don't have a horse in this race but this...

But hey, if you are happy to perform your duty tired, which exposes yourself to criminal prosecution for negligence....

.... was not the point Woodwork was making.

[Baileys]

It is being called at 9am after you finished work at 6am to come into work at 4pm. Yes, this happens.

And remind me again why you would even answer your phone in this situation. Surely you would be sleeping with your phone off or on silent. Surely if it was a work number you wouldn't answer it because you are asleep!

Come on - most of the controllers love the OT otherwise they would be 'asleep'.

[Woodwork]

you should just sign up and enjoy work 10 days straight. Otherwise stfu

Sorry if I upset you Mikk - but I have worked for a number of employers in my life, including ASA. I've fixed roads, worked in libraries, cleaned hire cars, defended my country, interned for an estate agent, tried flying, run a business, delivered pizzas, cleaned old ladies' windscreens at an old full-service petrol station, fixed motorcycles... They all had good and bad points. If your life is so unhappy with ASA - noting you give your location as Europe, which I didn't think had any ASA locations - have you considered doing something else? I reckon my next gig might be my own truck. There's good money in it for little overhead, albeit I might find myself working for 10 days straight...

[ferris]

Oh, Woody, where do I start? The problems of shiftwork and replacing sick workers are NOT unique to ATC Certainly not. However, there are very few employers setting out to run a safety-critical operation with insufficient staff numbers to the point that they RELY on overtime, and lots of it, to keep the doors open. your local plumber is just as stuffed if his apprentice fails to show for a two-man job as is your local TCU When the local plumber makes a mistake because he is tired, what are the ramifications? any nurse who's ever worked in a public hospital is well familiar with what overtime really means That'd be voluntary overtime, right? As in, different to what AsA requires, right? any fire fighter or police officer or ADF member can probably have a few things to say about cancelling days with the family or missing a game of golf. It's not about missing the odd family day- it's about missing every family day, because you get harassed to attend a lot (my record was 7 phone calls for different overtime shifts on a rare weekend away, after informing them that I would be away for the weekend). unlike RAAF ATCs, are free to resign at the drop of a hat And they do... which is mind-boggling that anyone would resign from such a good job. I think most would agree the issue is not with the job itself (I don't know anyone who doesn't love the job ), the issue is with the employer. I'm a shift-working controller and I earn triple what my shift-working ER nurse wife does, for half the hours That's just outright bull$hit. Then again, so is muddying the waters on what the thread is about.

[Woodwork]

I'm not really going to remain here to trade blows - I've said my piece, and am happy if people want to look into it rationally and decide why they do or don't agree with me - but the first and last points from ferris there just can't be left alone.

As I have more than a passing acquaintance with the public health system, I reckon you'd be aghast if you knew how many "safety critical" things in your local hospital are being done by inexperienced, underqualified doctors; how long the nurse monitoring an intensive care patient with constant vigilance for any sign of destabilisation might have been on duty (hint: 24 hour might not be long enough); how many 2-hour operations the cardiovascular surgeon working on your Nanna might have done in a row before this one; and how many people are queuing at universities to hand over $40,000 or more to the government to do their 3-year nursing degree (or $200k or more for a five-year medicine degree) merely so they can be eligible for all this joy on a starting salary less than $50k.

None of this is forgivable or even acceptable, of course, but my point isn't that ASA is some cornucopia of luxury, simply that if you base your complaints to management (or the internet) on the idea that being an ASA employee is uniquely hard or oppressive, you won't make much traction beyond your immediate circle of peers.

That's all I mean to say, not to demean your grievances or argue with your experience.

Edit: typo

[gobbledock]

ASA has gone from Swiss Cheese to a block of crumbling Parmesan cheese, things are not getting better. The longer this bureaucratic lunacy continues the closer we come to melted cheese. Tick tock.

http://fs.christonium.com/fs_files/11998304088642_parm.JPG

[Jack Ranga]

ASA ATCs are extraordinarily well-compensated for a non degree-qualified job

That's your opinion, it's valid and you're entitled to it. My opinion, I'm proud to be part of an association that has worked hard for the level of remuneration we 'enjoy' my further opinion is that we are underpaid, you compare to the emergency services, I compare to the financial services, degree qualified and destroying economies, people's futures (banksia, storm etc) etc.

There is nothing fair about a nurse, policeman or firies wages. Doesn't change the fact that ASA is playing a risky game here, they are playing a game according to excel spreadsheets that have consequences. You can piss and moan all you like and compare forever, but try comparing it to Lake Constance, not only the event but the on-going ramifications. There were identified organisational deficiencies that contributed to this.

ASA explodes at the seams with floor walkers that will present power point risk management strategies to ATC's who shake their head at the tripe. Like a pilot, sit in the chair and make the decisions, know that every single transmission, mouse click and action you take is recorded. I would love for every single employee in ASA to have every single action, every single phone call, financial decision etc to be recorded and for them to have to justify such. I would love for their performance to be assessed the way mine is.

I don't give a rats what the public perception of me is, I do give a rats when lies are promulgated in public from the managers that should be facilitating a safe and efficient service. I do give a rats when 'operational requirement' is used in a NOTAM to describe 'staff shortage,' weasel dick words from those who haven't got the courage to admit they have made a massive mistake with operational staffing.

[ferris]

None of this is forgivable or even acceptable, of course, but my point isn't that ASA is some cornucopia of luxury, simply that if you base your complaints to management (or the internet) on the idea that being an ASA employee is uniquely hard or oppressive, you won't make much traction beyond your immediate circle of peers.
Sadly, that is the case, which is why nothing is done about it. The few still work against the national interest, for self-interest. That's what really grates- the reasons why. It will, it seems (unfortunately), take something really bad to happen and some prison sentences before the problems are sorted out.
It doesn't have to be like this. Woody, with your vast experience of other employers (being 30 years old with 11 years of controlling experience { :cool: } ) should know this. It doesn't have to be like this.

In the mean time, the "at risk remuneration" culture rolls on.

[mikk_13]

If your life is so unhappy with ASA - noting you give your location as Europe, which I didn't think had any ASA locations - have you considered doing something else?

It is that bad that many have left for other jobs, I know one who is now an ambo, there are about 15-20 guys in Germany, heaps in the middle east, and the old guys are retiring early. Hence the problem.

As long as everyone is happy to have a tired controller who has worked 20 shifts in the last 22 days working their plane, nothing will change.

[alphacentauri]

Unfortunately, they end up in management. This is because we don't sack them, as this will look bad on the academy's/centre's kpi's for staff turn over. We promote sideways and these people are already disgruntled due being washed out.

An ex atc/fso does not necessarily a good manager make. I work for one.

There are students at the academy who have been backcoursed 3 times. Because mgt down there can't/won't sack them. They all try and get them support roles around the place. This explains why the ASA workforce numbers have soared in recent years and also explains the deadwood in the place.


Posted from Pprune.org App for Android

[Kharon]

Plane Talking – Sandilands. (http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/author/bensandilands/)
In relation to the unsafe state of air traffic control in Australia, the ATSB report says:

We are continuing our work to understand and mitigate the number of breakdowns of separation (BOS) and losses of separation assurance (LOSA) in air traffic control. Although the rate of these occurrences this year was broadly reflective of earlier years, we continue to examine individual occurrences in order to prevent their recurrence, but have also initiated a safety research investigation to bring the results of completed investigations together and compare their results with each other and the overall occurrence data set. To date, no significant, systemic safety issues have been identified as a result of our ongoing assessment of BOS/LOSA occurrences.

In fact, the ATSB produced in the year to June a series of reports into air traffic control failings which identify incomplete recurrent training issues in occurrences that have included controllers forgetting what they were doing and vectoring airliners into converging paths, in some cases annotated by the second and complete with diagrams that bring the performance of ASirServices Australia into disrepute.

The ATSB appears to operate to a unique meaning of the word ‘systemic’ given the fact that is has identified recurrent and entrenched issues in AirServices Australia and some air operators which it has chosen not to label as ‘systemic’.

We have safety problems in this country, and we have a problem with their full and frank disclosure.


Enough distraction, peoples lives are at risk, not just the passengers. Not to worry, CASA will sort it, you watch.
PS. Not many 'other' trades end up with a criminal record for a stuff up. ATS is just one of the lucky ones, bit like pilots really. Oh, Don't feed the trolls. K.

[ferris]

Despite Ben's efforts, the safety angle doesn't seem to be getting much traction.

Perhaps the mismanagement at Airservices might be put under the spotlight if money is mentioned? The deliberate under-staffing benefits managers and the "profit" returned to the govt, but at what cost? If somebody ran the numbers and pointed out that the cost of, say, 400 more controllers would be less costly than the amount of jet fuel wasted in airspace closures, unnecessary delays, etc. etc. in short "systemic inefficiency" driven by short-sighted, bonus-driven management goals, would they change?
The cost to the country in terms of lost productivity (think- FIFO miners sitting on the ground for longer than their flight, hoards of businesspeople experiencing delays as they hold, or detour around flow-constricted volumes etc. etc.) must be staggering. If someone put the sword to the fallacy that less controllers= national benefit, things might change.

The "silo thinking" that drives this wasteful cost shifting is old. Is good governance just beyond us anymore?

[Hempy]

12-47

Personally I don't understand the connection at all. The skill set required to be a successful ATC is unique...we've seen people with doctorates fail. Degree quals or not have zero bearing. How many Cathay 747 captains are degree qualified?

[Jack Ranga]

In most circumstances I don't mind responding to a troll, some of the time what they are posting are maybe points that others are wondering about. I don't for one moment believe that woodwork is an active controller. I doubt that he/she has held a rating but it maybe good to address his/her points.

More than likely woodwork is part of the hate machine in Canberra, the jealous wannabes disconnected from the core business. One of the the 800 extra floorwalkers who's done a cert 4 in risk management?

[Awol57]

Actually he is a current rated controller.

[Plazbot]

While post quote wars are fun I will be brief. I worked for Aussie ATC. It was a cluster fck. I am still an ATC elsewhere and it is rad. While many of the complaints are valid in this thread, from my experience, Aussie ATCs have much they should be looking at themselves to apportion blame for. This is where I would go into a tirade about spinelessness normally but I have gotta go trick or treating.

Hugs n kisses
Tobzalp

[Jack Ranga]

Actually he is a current rated controller.

He's gunna go off driving trucks isn't he?

[Awol57]

Dunno about that, perhaps? Certainly not a content tower controller ;)

[Roger Standby]

Don't reckon I would be either, stuck out there :)

[moa999]

From the wikileaks links posted in other thread.

Only talks about possibility of downgrade.

US embassy cable - 09CANBERRA1081 (http://cables.mrkva.eu/cable.php?id=238347)

[gobbledock]

http://www.pprune.org/dg-p-general-aviation-questions/462724-wikileaks-full-release-cable-searches.html

[Awol57]

Living the dream Roger, living the dream :)

[Sarcs]

Remember this...

Supplementary Senate Estimates 16/10/12:
Mr J McCormick: We did previously inform the committee that we would have that report done by 31 October, and we are on track to do that report and complete that work by 31 October.

Senator XENOPHON: And that will be delivered to the minister?

Mr J McCormick: We have not actually discussed the disposition of the report, other than to say that we will complete that work and then work with Airservices Australia to address the findings, such that they are.

Senator XENOPHON: So it might not see the light of day for several months, depending on the response from Airservices?

Mr J McCormick: It is more or less like any other audit report in a lot of ways: it has to be discussed with the people who are being audited. We do not do the report just to produce it and throw it away or disregard it; we do want some actions out of it. So it is a working document when it is complete.

Q/ Controllers: So is there any sign that it may have arrived on some trough feeders desk yet? Or is there another delay?:{

[gobbledock]

Mr J McCormick: We have not actually discussed the disposition of the report, other than to say that we will complete that work and then work with Airservices Australia to address the findings, such that they are.
I feel like a Bride on her wedding day, very eager. C'mon John, surely the report is complete. Wouldn't it have been completed , disseminated and made available to the Senators, as it should be completed in line with CASA internal guidelines and procedures? Or is it more likely that no formal guidelines and processes exist to back your statement?

Then again, couldn't Board member Mr Danos (Mr Danos was appointed as the Chair of CASA’s Board Audit Committee in February 2010) ensure that any agreed time frames are met? Oh no, speaking of audits and the recent highlights of CASA's inability to conduct proper, mature and robust audits of anything from Pelair to ASA to the Brisbane Regional Office bloody green buildings worm farm, would it be safe to question whether his role is tenable or even moderately working? Or is he only a participant in ICAO and FAA audits of CASA?
Then again, maybe all of the Board, the Director, Deputy Director, Associate Director and a cast of merry men, nuptys, mid-level spin doctors and other assorted members of Club 'Those Who Shall Feed From Troughs' need to spend some quality time discussing said matters over expensive wine, lobster and truffles at Brisbane and Spamberra's most exclusive restaurants prior to anything be released?
Footnote: All funded by industry and the taxpayer! Good to see your money well spent.

I am smelling a lack of robustness in favor of the smell of s#it!

OINK OINK

[Sarcs]

Noticed that Ben is still punching away at his keyboard...more's the pity you blokes can't get some mainstream media coverage.

ATSB updates information about ‘lost’ Virgin Australia 737
Ben Sandilands (http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/author/bensandilands/)| Nov 15, 2012 12:00PM |EMAIL|PRINT (http://javascript%3cb%3e%3c/b%3E:window.print();)

The ATSB update (http://atsb.gov.au/publications/investigation_reports/2012/aair/ao-2012-132.aspx) on the incident on 28 September in which AirServices Australia lost its awareness of a Virgin Australian 737 for most of its flight between Sydney and Brisbane is a detailed reminder that the air traffic controller is a danger to the safety of flight in our skies until it fixes some significant deficiencies in the competencies of its controllers and its management.

This was an incident in which the original notification of the incident to the ATSB was amended to tell the truth to the ATSB after an initial attempt to portray it as a procedural error.

It also lead to AirServices Australia issuing statement that lied about the nature and seriousness of the incident, and continuing to lie about it even when Plane Talking published the amended incident notification (see link).
This link ends with a guide (http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2012/10/12/airservices-lost-virgin-jet-screen-grab-unmasks-its-lies/) to the reporting of the incident and the untruthful description of it provided by AirServices Australia in a chronological sequence.

In its attempt to discredit the Plane Talking report AirServices Australia this is what the Acting Chief Executive Officer of AirServices Australia, Andrew Clark, said, in the second of two untruthful statements made to this publication.

The aircraft was never ‘lost’ to Airservices air traffic controllers. It continued to be displayed on all air traffic control displays managing the airspace and was not in the vicinity of any other aircraft.

The lost status of the flight is however confirmed in this section of this morning’s ATSB update.

The 737’s flight data record had been inhibited on the controllers’ displays for a total of 27 minutes, which was equivalent to a flight distance of about 222 NM (411 km). During this period, none of the controllers involved were aware of the aircraft’s presence in their respective airspace. There was a loss of separation assurance. The ATSB has examined the recorded radar data and found no separation conflicts in the affected airspace during that time.

The issues that have arisen from this incident, and many other examples of dangerous and incompetent behavior by the air traffic controller are of acute concern. Australia has an ATC provider with a proven inability to safely and professionally separate airliners, and a management that lies.

This is totally unacceptable, and puts Australian and foreign airliners in our skies at risk.
Still you got to hand it to Ben he's like a dog with a bone!:ok:ATSB updates information about 'lost' Virgin Australia 737 | Plane Talking (http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2012/11/15/atsb-updates-information-about-lost-virgin-australia-737/)

[1Charlie]

I'm confused. Last week a manager told me the entire east coast services north group is basically surviving on overtime, and that the overtime budget has been blown out. Yet in Australian Aviation the CEO says "there is no staff shortage, we employ 922 controllers from a minimum requirement of 743". Would the overtime budget really be a problem if there was truly enough staff? And would I have needed to do 20 hours of overtime in the last two weeks?

[wateroff]

From the office at 35 000', and every thousand below depending on the stack.

We Understand ......................and we know.

You want to manage air traffic

You want us to be on schedule

You are goal orientated like us

You would like increase the frequency of air traffic to be in line with global practices

You are frustrated being bound by rules that date back to 1956

You know the Division of Grayndler needs a new member.!!!!!!!!

You know a simpler more efficient system is possible

You, like us, use great aussie colloquialisms about the people in charge of this mess, when the PTT is off - hopefully

You know - the smart arse asking to cancel speed and track shortening is just joking. guuuyyys - reallly!!!

You know - we know, that they know - there IS A BETTER WAY!!!

You know - we're doing our best, and you doing your best - but there is just something, something preventing it from working like it should.


So, from us up here to you guys and gals down there - Merry Christmas, and here is to a New Year with less of the current ' shall we say ' people living under the flightpath, who make the rules, and who could IMPROVE aviation in Oz.

[longtermatc-career]

Xxxxxxxxx

[Kharon]

Perhaps some of our esteemed ATC colleagues could answer some questions which keep cropping up at Safety Management meetings. We have asked your management but the answers seem a little too 'fluid' for practical purposes. All questions are safety related and we would like some answers.

1) Why is it so hard sometimes to get the latest METAR or traffic for descent lately, we had one crew report actually overflying a reporting point and not being able to make that position report for 18 minutes. Why is frequency congestion such a repeated reported complaint?

2) Why are there so many promises about new technology to resolve the expensive, potentially dangerous delays, especially during bad weather made and not kept?

3) What is the delay on restructured airspace, this has been coming for years; in flight delays involve costs approximating the proposed budget surplus. When is our new efficient airspace due into service?

4) Is true that the indecent amounts of fees your monopoly generates are used to provide funds for court cases and first class travel and accommodation for the 'management' class. Does this explain why important safety matters above are not being dealt with?

5) Can you confirm that combined or reduced service routes or airspace is no longer declared on NOTAM ?

We ask these questions in the interest of the travelling, tax paying passengers who may at some stage become the victims of the current situation. Please explain so can acquit the safety issues our committee has to deal with on a regular basis.

[C441]

I wonder what a good 4-Corners journalist would make of all this.......

[Hempy]

I wonder what a good 4-Corners journalist would make of all this.......
It'll all come out in the Royal Commission...

Oh and to the Lawyer or Journo researching all this in the future, let it be known that we told them, they just wouldn't listen. :-(

[Robbovic]

According to business experts (oxymoron?) a new CEO has 100 days to put theirmark on an organisation.
Air Vice Marshall Madge is running out of time.
Also going on leave for most of january.
Havent heard the chain saw yet Madge.
Still copious amounts of dead wood in Cantberra.

(sigh) here we go again!!!

[Baileys]

It will all come out in a royal commission....people have been saying that ever since the TAAATS transition. What's that - 15 years? You might be waiting a while yet I think.

All that has really happened in that time is 3 or 4 times reshuffling of the management deck chairs - away from Canberra back again and sideways. A few good projects completed. Mindless chasing of false efficiencies by cutting actual ATC numbers whilst at the same time a ballooning (tripling maybe?) of bureaucrats busying themselves with busy work and meetings about finding more efficiencies in the ATC numbers. A crazy scheme to rearrange the whole airspace and management structure and retrain everyone a few times whilst promoting the elite ATC's to ALM (managers). This would some how save heaps of money and be sooooooo efficient for the airlines. Everyone below bureaucrat level was quietly wondering/laughing/eye-rolling about that doozy.

None of that really sounds like good business for anyone but it's not really royal commission stuff either. Just annoying for all concerned. Australian ATC's are actually quite good at their jobs so I would doubt you will see a mid air here. Fingers crossed.

[Robbovic]

"promoting elite ATCs to ALM..."

(cough, cough) care to run a poll in Brisbane and Me lbourne as to how many of their ALMs they think are/were elite? Most were those who chose to sell their souls for filthy lucre in the days when contracts were offered above the odds.

[Gentle_flyer]

Kharon, According to controllers I know Airservices has no plan. Their new CEO has apparently made comments that have used up any sympathy she may have got from Heffernan and co. in the Senate. The controllers now call her "Gregaret". Presumably in honour of her seemingly mimic words of the previous incumbent. Her full name was spelled out to me by one who saw it on the controller's blog. If my memory is correct it was "Gregaret Back Staib, Sheikess of Tweak". I am sure one of the controllers will correct me if I have got it wrong? From one of the controllers that attended her briefing she is going to "transform the business". When asked what she meant she indicate the main change was that RAAF and Civil controllers would use the same system. Talk about an anti-climax as this will not do a thing to negate the increasing traffic levels, increasing age demographic of the controllers (i.e. older), and the increasing number of close breakdowns of separations. Airservices should be asked just two questions: 1/. What are you going to do to address the problems confronting Airservices in the short term, i.e. to 2020? 2/. When Airservices finally commissions AFS/CMATS or whatever the GEE WHIZ name that they give the new system, what is going to be different for the controllers at the workface that is better than the current system? Guess what? At the moment the controllers know of nothing in the pipeline before AFS/CMATS and most controllers I know tell me that the goss inside the big project is that it will struggle to do what the current one does. So if honestly answered it would be 1/. NOTHING and 2/. NOTHING. Oh dear. Me thinks the new CEO has a problem!!

[gobbledock]

Watching the unfolding saga in our skies for some time now has bothered me to say the least. Dryden kept popping up into my mind, an accident I studied 15 years ago. So I went back to the books (and Google) over the last few days and I have posted a snippet of the accident here.

Too many similarities to what Australia is going through, and without surprise inadequate regulatory oversight, funding and bureaucracy as usual pop up their rotting head.
Have we learned any lessons since Dryden, which incidentaly should have had an impact on us here? You be the judge.
(my bolding)


Dryden Disaster, Three Years Later A Look Back On The Crash Of Air Ontario Fokker F28

Author Martin B Aubury January 1993;

On 10 March 1989 an Air Ontario Fokker F28 crashed just after take-off from Dryden Ontario with the loss of 24 lives. The pilot attempted the take-off with ice on the aircraft wings. Why he had done so became the subject of a vast judicial inquiry that delved deeply into the contributing factors which arose from commercial pressures and inadequate safety surveillance.

"The aircraft was hitting trees, hitting trees, and at that point the aircraft I guess was decelerating and we were inside the blender effect... you take a blender, throw in some metal, some trees, people and turn it on." So ended Air Ontario flight 1363 in March 1989. So ended Canada's delusion that the country could have cheap, deregulated air fares without the need for extra air safety surveillance.

The Air Ontario Fokker F28 aircraft crashed immediately after take-off from Dryden Municipal Airport. A routine accident investigation soon found that the aircraft had been unable to gain height because its wings were covered in ice and snow. The pilot should have known that the aircraft could not fly in this condition. When investigators looked at why the pilot had attempted a take off, it became apparent that the real causes of the accident lay at the heart of deregulation and that because of deregulation, traditional air safety standards had been cut.

The accident was all the more tragic because just seven weeks earlier, warnings within the regulatory authority Transport Canada had been leaked to the press. In part the leaked memo said, "Air carrier inspection is no longer capable of meeting even minimum requirements necessary to ensure safety. In fact, it is no longer able to assure the Minister of the safety of large air carrier commercial air services in Canada". It went on with the ominous warning, "The situation is to the point where every ACI (Air Carrier Inspector) and an increasing number of industry pilots are convinced that a major accident is inevitable".

The routine accident investigation was subsumed into a judicial inquiry under the Honorable Virgil P. Moshansky. His report clearly shows that competitive pressures caused by commercial deregulation cut into safety standards. Moreover the regulatory authority was aware of this but could not counter it because the government was cutting regulatory resources.

The two government policies of commercial deregulation of the airlines and fiscal restraint on federal government services together, were a recipe for disaster. Unfortunately it is a recipe which is being repeated in Australia.

Economic deregulation of the airlines started in the USA in 1978, Canada followed in 1984. In December 1985 the Canadian House of Commons Transport Committee was warned that competitive pressures would erode self policing by the industry of its safety standards. At the same time Transport Canada arranged a number of visits to the USA to learn from their experience of deregulation.

To counter safety problems arising from deregulation the US authority eventually had to double its safety surveillance staff. Some of the Canadians knew that they too needed more resources but their pleas fell on deaf ears.

A report by the Director of Licensing and Certification outlined the problems confronting US authorities. It listed more than 50 areas of concern including:
- rapid expansion of airlines into unfamiliar areas of operation
- inexperienced, unqualified and/or over extended management
- incomplete or inaccurate records -
- non-compliance with approved procedures
- increased contracting out of training and maintenance
- use of unauthorized or improperly trained maintenance personnel
- improper/inaccurate control of aircraft weight and balance


The report was prophetic in predicting the factors which later contributed to the Air Ontario accident.

Air Ontario Inc. was formed by the merger of Air Ontario Limited and Austin Airways. Under the impetus of deregulation it changed from being mainly a charter and cargo operation with a mix of generally small aircraft, to become a feeder airline for the large national carrier Air Canada. Air Canada effectively owned Air Ontario and wanted to project its corporate image through its subsidiary by way of marketing, logo and decor. Unbeknown to passengers Air Canada deliberately distanced itself from operational and airworthiness aspects of Air Ontario.

Similar deceptions are prevalent in Australia.

The judicial inquiry found that Air Ontario had rushed the introduction of its relatively large and complicated jet powered F28. Some personnel were not properly trained and some manuals and procedures were neither correct nor consistent. These deficiencies were not fully detected nor were they countered by a regulatory authority which was hopelessly under resourced.

On the day of the accident the aircraft was flying shuttle services from Thunder Bay to Winnipeg via Dryden. It was a Friday at the start of school holidays so the aircraft was full. This limited the amount of fuel which could be carried on any one leg of the journey without exceeding the maximum allowable weight of the aircraft. Also the weather was inclement and getting worse, so the aircraft needed to carry enough fuel for a longer than normal diversion. These factors combined to force the airline to schedule refueling during the aircraft's second stop at Dryden.

The aircraft had many unrectified defects. The one which became critical to the accident was an unserviceable Auxiliary Power Unit (APU). This is a small extra engine in the rear of the aircraft which among other functions provides compressed air to start the main engines. The main engines can also be started by an external power supply.

The airline put the pilot in a very difficult predicament when he landed at Dryden. It was not normal to refuel at Dryden. At Dryden there were no ground start facilities so the aircraft was dependent on its APU but the APU was not working. If the pilot stopped the engines he could not start them again. He needed to load fuel but this should never be done with engines running and certainly not with passengers on board. Snow was falling gently. Off-loading and reloading passengers took time and the longer the aircraft stayed on the ground the greater was the need for the wings to be sprayed with deicing fluid. On the Fokker F28 aircraft deicing fluid must not be applied while the engines are running.

The pilot had the aircraft fueled while the engines were running and with passengers on board. Although this is a very dubious procedure it was not then prohibited by Transport Canada and airline instructions were inconsistent. The pilot did not have the wings deiced; again airline instructions were unclear on this point.

With ice on the wings, the wings did not lift properly during take off. The aircraft staggered into the air and crashed just beyond the end of the runway. 24 of the 69 people on board were killed.

The pilot died in the accident and in times gone by the accident would have been dismissed as "pilot error". Now, because aircraft accidents are so horrendously expensive for society, society asks what led the pilot to make his mistake.

Commissioner Moshansky found that the aircraft was operating with an excessive number of unrectified defects, that the aircraft should not have been scheduled to refuel at an airport which did not have proper equipment and that neither training nor manuals had sufficiently warned the pilot of the dangers of ice on the wings. Moshansky blamed Transport Canada for letting Air Ontario expand into operation of bigger, more complicated aircraft without detecting the deficiencies.

Most importantly Moshansky expressed concern that the Government had not appreciated the safety implications of embarking on a policy of promoting increased airline competition at the same time as it was imposing a freeze on safety regulation resources.

Nearly two hundred recommendations arose from the Air Ontario accident but two capture the tenor of the report.

"Transport Canada (should)put in place a policy directive that if resource levels are insufficient to support a regulatory or other program having a direct bearing on aviation safety, the resource shortfall and its impact be communicated without delay to successively higher levels of Transport Canada management until the problem is resolved or until it is communicated to the Minister of Transport".

The Australian Government is still deluding itself that it can trust a deregulated industry to maintain standards and that a strong air safety authority is an expensive luxury. From the Board of the Civil Aviation Authority down, those who accept that a 40% cut in resources has no effect on safety are lauded and promoted. Those who disagree have been ousted.

"Transport Canada establish a mandatory education program to ensure that senior managers and officials of the department who are responsible for or associated with aviation programs are aware of the basis for and the requirement to support policies that affect aviation safety".

How sad that this should be necessary. In Australia, from the Chief Executive of the CAA down, seasoned bureaucrats have been replaced with "agents of change" who adhere to the "right" corporate ethos. From airworthiness, the head of airworthiness, the head of maintenance, the head of training, the head of aircraft certification, the head of aircraft structures and the head of aircraft fatigue have all left.

Canada has suffered a number of air disasters and several resulted in formal inquiries akin to that undertaken by Commissioner Moshansky. When the findings of an earlier Royal Commission by Justice Dubin were reviewed by Australian airworthiness specialists they were gratified to see that virtually all of Dubin's recommendations with regard to aircraft safety were already in place in Australia. Ten years later we should be alarmed at how many of the criticisms and recommendations arising from the Air Ontario accident apply in Australia.

We should be most alarmed because, as happened in Canada, our Government is not funding sufficient surveillance resources to keep the industry honest.

Published in Canberra Times, 7 January 1993 and reproduced with permission of the author Martin B Aubury

Author’s Post Script – Within two years Australia suffered several air crashes that led to Parliamentary and judicial inquiries. These inquiries found that
deregulation in Australia had caused exactly the same irregularities as

happened earlier in Canada and the USA.
Review Of Air Ontario Fokker 28 Crash Three Years Later (http://avstop.com/news/airontario.html)



Smell something familiar? Apart from the obvious smell of kero mixed with burning flesh (tick tock) the smell of an inept government which employs nimwits to run its aviation agencies is just the start. Lessons learned? Correct, SFA. This accident happenned 23 years ago (the devils number for CASA ) and even back then there were references to Human Factors and pathetic regulatory oversight. AND we have had a number of significant events since then. The only thing missing from the report were references to 'tautology and pony pooh'.

One might even question whether the hallowed SMS is truly as efficient as one would expect? Or is it a tool used by regulators to dodge a bullet and place all blame on the operator? And perhaps if the sulking executives at CASA, ATSB, ASA stopped moaning about there precious reputations and actually got on with doing the job efficiently there actually would be a safer sky for all?
Tick tock

[gobbledock]

Kharon, According to controllers I know Airservices has no plan. Their new CEO has apparently made comments that have used up any sympathy she may have got from Heffernan and co. in the Senate. The controllers now call her "Gregaret". Presumably in honour of her seemingly mimic words of the previous incumbent. Her full name was spelled out to me by one who saw it on the controller's blog. If my memory is correct it was "Gregaret Back Staib, Sheikess of Tweak". Gee, what a shock! Albo hires a bureaucrat and she starts firing off bureaucratic style mitigation? Apart from announcing she will travel cattle class for work, and that she is on leave in January, she has accomplished what?
Hmmm, she knows only how to be subservient to her Ministerial puppet masters, she will spin, tweak, deflect, fluff, polish and produce glossy reports containing references to polluted numbers and already questionable statistics. Sorry boys, she will be another 'Russell', it's what she does, it's her destiny and loyal duty to the Minister, that's what she is trained to do.
That is, has and remains her career.

[Up-into-the-air]

From the asa web-site, at:

CDM Stage 1 – ATFM | Airservices (http://airservicesaustralia.com/projects/collaborative-decision-making-cdm/cdm-stage-1-atfm)

CDM Stage 1 – ATFM

Ground Delay Programs
CDM Stage 1 entails the replacement of the Central Traffic Management System (CTMS) tool (which only services Sydney and Perth) with an advanced ATFM application capable of simultaneously managing traffic flows at multiple airports. This new application is called Metron Traffic Flow and it will initiåally manage traffic flows at Sydney, Perth, Brisbane, and Melbourne via a staged implementation plan.

From a traffic management aspect, where demand exceeds capacity, Metron Traffic Flow will regulate traffic into a designated airport in a similar manner to CTMS through the allocation of ground delay. Metron Traffic Flow will issue ground delays through the allocation of Calculated Off Block Times, previously known as Programmed Gate Departure Times.

Stakeholder interaction with Ground Delay Programs (GDP)
Metron Traffic Flow accepts real-time updates to schedule data, either via flight plan submission, airline day of operations changes to scheduled departure times, or ATC live data. As a consequence of accepting real-time updates, Metron Traffic Flow is able to display the most up-to-date demand/capacity information for any monitored airport, which in turn provides both airlines and ATC with an enhanced capability to predict traffic management issues. Therefore to maximise the capabilities of Metron Traffic Flow it will be important that all airspace users update their schedules on “day of operations” as soon as schedule changes become known.

All airlines intending to operate through Brisbane and Melbourne will be required to provide schedule information in advance or call to obtain a landing time in the same manner as is currently required to support CTMS operations through Sydney and Perth (details are available in ERSA FAC S-6). Those users that currently access CTMS or Skyflow for information will need to use Metron Traffic Flow when CTMS is decommissioned.

Aircraft operators (and other affected stakeholders) will be able to view the GDP information for affected flights via web based access to the Metron Traffic Flow tool. User login to this service is managed by Airservices Australia.

Is this going to work, or is there another level of organisation, hence more "swiss cheese" holes.

[Capn Bloggs]

Metron...Is this going to work
Whether it is working (it is actually functional now, you know) is one thing, but it's hardly creating extra swiss cheese holes...

[I Am ATC]

Agree with Bloggs.

If anything this should have a positive effect on safety: i.e. less aircraft holding or airborne in sectors that are at or over capacity frequently. (Metron is actually one of the safety mitigators that Airservices management frequently hang their hats on when addressing safety threats raised by their own internal threat assessment process)

However - and this is a big caveat - this is all quite theoretical.

It is hard to find information on operational information anymore since the Airservices website got turned in to an online shopping basket (yes we all know where that is heading) , but this is the relevant bit:

http://airservicesaustralia.com/aip/current/sup/s12-h91.pdf

So, this is all part of the CDM (Collaborative Decision Making) process - however it all got a lot less collaborative late last Friday at the 11th hour when an airline that flies a lot of Fokker 100's took out an injunction against Airservices over the system. Many would have preferred to see Airservices continue with the introduction on Sunday and just let the F100's be non-participants leaving the majority of aircraft attempting to comply and see what the overall net benefit is during the introductory period. Unfortunately, Airservices blinked and suspended the entire thing UFN (although not for YSSY which has been going for some time, and appears to be quite successful by most accounts)

I can not find any record of it, but apparently the cute way of suspending this introduction (after months of training for all parties) was to issue a NOTAM cancelling the SUP!

Talk about being totally non-transparent. How about a NOTAM providing specific information? How about an update on the ATFM webpage? Safety critical information anyone?

...............

METRON has been serving SYD well, but many think this is because it has been operating in isolation: i.e. other airports support the Ground delays so Sydney gets the benefit. When you add in ground delays that will need to occur in SY for BN Arrivals, in SY for ML arrivals, in BN for ML Arrivals, in ML for BN arrivals etc, etc, then the problem becomes one of : is there infrastructure capacity on the ground to do this? The answers coming back are no. Another issue, is that METRON does not actually run it's program in synch will all the participating airports - i.e.: each ground delay program for each airport is run in isolation. You can probably see that this will quickly lead to a GIGO information loop, where an aircraft that has been allocated a ground delay at one airport will not be included in the arrival demand forecast for another. On face value it appears to be a major flaw, but nobody will know until it starts running. And until everyone agrees (collaboration!) to use it and comply with it, it won't run properly.

One thing that has not been mentioned, is that the guy running METRON in Australia is one Gregory Russell. Thats right, the CEO of Airservices Australia who oversaw the awarding of a multi-million dollar contract to METRON (rumoured to now be five times the original budget - approaching $30M!), resigned, and started almost immediately with the same company he awarded the contract to! Is our government or media no longer interested in questions of corruption? Or at least the appearance of corruption?

Metron Aviation - Metron Aviation Appoints Greg Russell as Executive Aviation Advisor (http://www.metronaviation.com/news/press-releases/424-metron-appoints-greg-russell.html)

At the end of the day your ATC is doing the best he or she can in this environment, with the toxic culture that this man cultivated, and the many poor decisions that will be his legacy for years to come.

I am ATC, and on behalf of the real professionals who work to get you home as safely and as quickly as the system allows, I am truly sorry we can not do better.

[gobbledock]

One thing that has not been mentioned, is that the guy running METRON in Australia is one Gregory Russell. Thats right, the CEO of Airservices Australia who oversaw the awarding of a multi-million dollar contract to METRON (rumoured to now be five times the original budget - approaching $30M!), resigned, and started almost immediately with the same company he awarded the contract to! Is our government or media no longer interested in questions of corruption? Or at least the appearance of corruption? Very good point indeed.

Dear Senators: Please place the above mentiond item onto your agenda for the new year. This needs an in-depth probing, because from this end of the blunt stick the smell of something untoward is growing very strong.
Perhaps ASA can produce all records of meetings, trips, consultative services and costs incurred by Mr Russell specific to this company.
One can only assume that taxpayer funds have not been used in any manner whatsoever by Mr Russell to further his career aspirations external to ASA?

It would seem that the deeper one digs the more unpallatable shennanigans and actions are exposed relating to management, oversight and operation of the ASA,CASA and ATSB?

[tontinewarrior]

The current culture came from the top i.e. Greg Russell.
Lots of promises to the front line staff and feigned shock at the lack of availability of leave, career progression, staff planning, age profile, etc.
Guts the training area, dubious appointments/promotions followed by departures to pursue other opportunities. TFN is then pushed out the door following Credit Card issues.
What people did he appoint? What management structure did he put in place?

[Fly_by_wire]

So, this is all part of the CDM (Collaborative Decision Making) process - however it all got a lot less collaborative late last Friday at the 11th hour when an airline that flies a lot of Fokker 100's took out an injunction against Airservices over the system. Many would have preferred to see Airservices continue with the introduction on Sunday and just let the F100's be non-participants leaving the majority of aircraft attempting to comply and see what the overall net benefit is during the introductory period. Why can't said operator play with the other big boys?

[gobbledock]

The current culture came from the top i.e. Greg Russell.
Lots of promises to the front line staff and feigned shock at the lack of availability of leave, career progression, staff planning, age profile, etc.
Guts the training area, dubious appointments/promotions followed by departures to pursue other opportunities. TFN is then pushed out the door following Credit Card issues.
What people did he appoint? What management structure did he put in place?And all this for a mere 800k per year! Sensational, I gotta get me a ring side seat at that trough!

Profitable skies for all

[Ivasrus]

Meanwhile, Europe looks to move beyond a CTOT-based ground delay management system and focus instead on TTAs.

FAIR STREAM: Common approach to increase flight efficiency (http://www.atc-network.com/News/43132/FAIR-STREAM-Common-approach-to-increase-flight-efficiency)

Are we world class? Or simply buying last decade's technology?

[Sunfish]

Robovic is about right - CEO's have no more than a year to make their mark on a business or they are finished.

What worries me is that Stalb sounds like a rule following bureaucrat - not a leader, if what "Gentle flyer" reports is correct.

"Transform the Business"/ "business transformation", or "transforming" anything at all are plain and simple wank words that are giant waving glowing red flags to professionals that the manager has no idea what they are talking about and has been sold a load of coblers.

The fundamentals of a business are the fundamentals of the busines and they cannot and will not be transformed no matter how many high priced consultants tell you otherwise and I have sat on both sides of the table with that caper, so lets hope Stalb has been misreported.

Facts are stubborn things and will not transform, and I think I understand that ATC requires sufficient trained bums on seats to do the job and all else is unimportant bull****.

The second very large warning sign is the suggestion (if true) that some piece of software (metron?) is going to be relied on to do the transforming and that once this system is working all problems will magically be transformed away. That never, ever happens.

This idea - that once our software is delivered all will be well, is a crutch I've seen managers use time and again and it never ends well. Managers are either too scared to confront, or don't understand the real problem, so a little wishful thinking and the ever present software salesman convinces the manager that a computer system will solve all their problems without personal pain - and they never deliver.

Of course the manager finally leaves, blaming the software and staff for having failed them.

The issue that needs to be confronted, if Pprune posts are anything to go by, is that the economic concept of ATC/AsA as a "profit centre" that must generate a "dividend" to government is deeply and fatally flawed.

Until that mindset is removed then the situation and performance will get progressively worse, and that will continue until sufficient people have paid with their lives to convince Government that this experiment has failed and must be terminated.

[Nautilus Blue]

METRON is a (mainly) red herring in terms of this discussion. It's already up and running, and does a job that needs to be done (how well it does it is another discussion).

TFN buying METRON, quitting and then being employed by METRON stinks, but sadly is hardly unusual in business.

I aslo disagree that ASA and the RAAF using the same system makes no difference. When Pearce ATC went over to TAATS, our workload dropped significantly. Unfortunately, the rise in traffic levels quickly outstripped the efficiencies we gained.

Even running ASA at a profit doesn't have to have a safety impact. If done properly it would just mean airlines paying too much. Just like an airline, a firm competent regulator backed by an expert investigator would set hard limits and requirements based on science and logic, and enforce them. Oh, wait...

I think the problem we had was who was running the show. The two focuses seemed to be stamping his personality and cutting costs. On present form his replacement seems to be a 'just coast along' type.

If I could change anything at ASA it would be scrap SDE and the fantasy of generic ratings, and replace ALM's with rated supervisors.

[Hempy]

Interesting to hear on the grapevine that AFS are apparently looking at a Joint User, 1 TCU, 2 Centre model for 2017. I thought that was attempted about 8 management 'cycles' ago....Anyone for maybe Nambour?? :D

[gobbledock]

Interesting to hear on the grapevine that AFS are apparently looking at a Joint User, 1 TCU, 2 Centre model for 2017. I thought that was attempted about 8 management 'cycles' ago....Anyone for maybe Nambour?? :D Bureaucracy 101. Wait for a few 'cycles' to pass then wheel out some of the old crap that was experimented with or that was toyed with in another lifetime. Apply a timeframe such as 2017, perfect, around 4 - 5 years away! Just enough time for the incumbent Execs and Minister to preach the word about the new systems worth, do SFA for the next 5 years then depart and leave the turd in need of a good polishing by the new Executive! Can't wait for the next rumour, probably something along the lines of an extra 2.6 Controllers will be added to the Australian workforce over the next 3 years??

[Keg]

Ground delays in the form of 'gate hold' works well until you run out of gates to park arriving aircraft. What we lack in Australia is a 'time out' area where we can tow scheduled departing aircraft to sit and wait for a start time and thus free up the gates for arriving aircraft. The pond in Sydney is about the only obvious place but there are no procedures in place to use it as a gate hold.

[Kharon]

While it is good to see media reports about how concerned (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/aviation/calls-for-adequate-christmas-staffing/story-e6frg95x-1226535686554) the airlines are with air traffic control delays at Sydney Airport this Christmas, the real story is the dangers posed to travellers by a badly run, dishonest and unsafe system that is a serious and immediate threat to public safety. Ben Sandilands – Plane Talking. (http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2012/12/13/australias-air-traffic-control-shambles-is-about-more-than-xmas/)
Pointed, accurate and all but ignored by anyone but the converted. Tough old road for the ATC kids. Seems to me the article could be edited to suit almost any agency, especially the aviation ones. Hopes for a better new year with a change of government ??