We're getting Cirr-I-us...

[Best Rate]

A while back we were weighing up the Archer vs C182S for private purchase. We've ended up steering in the direction of a little SR20 Cirrus, at a comparable price.

Really looking forward to getting hold of our G1 by the end of April and putting some hours on the clock.

With quite a few getting around now, I'm guessing there's some good gen out out there on operating tips and composite airframe care...

I've joined COPA (Cirrus Owners / Pilots Association) so that's prob a good start...

Any stand-out must-know techniques / tips would be appreciated, so feel free to PM me if anything springs to mind from personal experiences with the Cirrus.

Best regards and safe Easter holidays,

Best Rate

[Aye Ess]

Hey best rate, no doubt you'll get stacks of technical opinions of the Cirrus. But purely from an artist's point of view,they are SUCH a good looking aircraft. This is a painting I did about a year ago of one that resides in WA.Yes,it is a 22,but it is a really attractive aeroplane.

http://i1032.photobucket.com/albums/a401/alan_spears/Cirrusx1.jpg?t=1314146448

[VH-XXX]

What type of info are you actually after?

Don't run them lean, I can tell you that much.

Don't expect to legally put 4 POB in it unless you don't want to go far.

Have deep pockets.

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

With quite a few getting around now, I'm guessing there's some good gen out out there on operating tips and composite airframe care...

Yeah, don't leave it out in the sun! :E

Dr :8

[gassed budgie]

Don't run them lean, I can tell you that much



I've done a bit over 400hrs in a SR22 and I'd say that 98% of the time (spent in the cruize), the engine has been run at 60° to 70° LOP. The engine runs cool, it runs smoothly and it runs nice and clean. No cracked cylinders, all the compressions still in the low 70's and a qrt of oil once every 25 hrs.
The IO-550 as set up in the SR-22 is one smooth running engine (better than the IO-520 in the 210 I have to admit), whether it's run ROP or LOP.
Depending on the actual power setting being used (when running it LOP), you'll save up to 5 usg/hr for a loss of around 7 to 9 ktas. Can't vouch for the SR20.

[VH-XXX]

Not the sort of aircraft to let beginners fly when it comes to engine management.

[Capt Fathom]

Not the sort of aircraft to let beginners fly when it comes to engine management.

That's a very general statement! For the benefit of Best Rate, care to elaborate?

[Jabawocky]

Send them to me!

Don't run them lean, is true, run them LEANER IS BETTER. I don't care if it is your chainsaw, mower or SR20, the laws of combustion are equal. Fuel does not know the difference.

Do not continue OWT's any more please.:ugh:

I am gob smacked at how many people are under educated. And I now understand why.

XXX Your comment is dangerous. Mishandling ROP is the problem. On the lean side, cock it up as much as you like, no harm.:*

[VH-XXX]

That's a very general statement! For the benefit of Best Rate, care to elaborate?

Pilot gets into Cirrus and climbs to 7,500ft.

Presses "lean assits" on the Avidyne.
Brings back mixture lever until the screen says "best economy."

The rest is history.

Otherwise I find them to be a nice aircraft. Comfortable, reasonably fast, nice autopilot, all the mod cons, lots of room, easy to fly, just a little light on for payload and power (SR20).

[Jabawocky]

So XXX are you saying the lean find function does not work?

Or could it be that the SR20 you are familiar with, and is in common with probably 90% of the fleet has an engine built by TCM pre say...2010 where the chances of valves actually mating properly with the valve seats was right up there with Buckley's? This is a known problem, but everyone seems to prefer the OWT as its easier to blame the operator who is uneducated and can't defend himself.

An SR20 with its jugs all rebuilt by a reputable shop, would make a much more reliable unit than most have seen factory new.

Sad reality it seems.

Now it is possible to burn up a TCM or LYC if you do it right, but I doubt that is what happened. And at 7500' I think you will find the chances on a NA IO360 are almost impossible no matter what you do.

If we stick to data backed science, we get facts. Not OWT's.

Best Rate, I have helped educate a large number of folk over the last few years, and as recently as yesterday one of the attendee's to my engine lectures walked into the hangar, and I did not recognise him and his wife, but they were so pleased they had to stop by, well we went for a quick sortie, and at low level full bore I showed them LOP at a high power setting, and everything behaved as it should....Funny how data based science = reality when the rubber hits the road.

If you want learn more PM me.:ok:

[VH-XXX]

Yeah, sure, it might be that it's an old engine. Chances are that a second-hand SR20 that the poster is talking about might fall within the same timeframe so I guess it's relevant what you are saying Jabba.

Does the lean assist work? Probably not very well, otherwise it wouldn't have come back from a long trip away with 83.3% of the clyinders cracked.

Education is the key, the same with any engine and aircraft, so yes, you are spot on Jabba.

I remember one of the guys from our airport visiting Sunland a few years back and there was a half dozen or more Cirrus's in the yard with their engines out and drums hanging off the front, but that would be more likely due to the blocks cracking due to the faulty alternator mounts.

The block on our SR20 cracked for the second time (replaced once already - first time at 400 hours) with 200 hours to run on TBO and I believe it was at the second alternator mounting bracket, again!

Like I said, deep pockets and you'll be fine.

[Jack Ranga]

So, don't buy a Cirrus, especially an SR20 and definitely not one with a CONT? :D

[VH-XXX]

I've said it myself and heard it from many others that the SR20 is underpowered, which causes some of these issues.

But it depends on what you want to use it for.

Because it's underpowered, it struggles at MTOW and it gets driven harder which does no favours to the engine. Climbs are longer and because it struggles at high weights, it tends to get driven at higher power settings to stop the arse-end from dragging and slowing it down in the cruise.

2+1 pax, a great aircraft. Any more and you'll start to wish you had an SR22.

Was talking to a mate on the weekend, he operates an SR22 out of 350 metres, day in, day out..... there's your difference. An SR20 needs a lot more runway than that.

[mates rates]

VH-XXX

Interesting figures you are quoting there for the SR22,operating out of 350m.Your friend must be operating it very light into 350m.This is one of the few aircraft that has a LDR greater than the TDR.
Sea level at 20C on the book figures,it requires about 700M to land at MLW.
Be very careful everyone with the LDR for the SR22.

[VH-XXX]

True... take all aviation related comments with a grain of salt unless clarified.

He would normally be 1 or 2 POB. It is amazingly short and I did discuss it with him at length. The 22 was at Temora. Insurance etc, that's a whole different ball-game that need not even be discussed for such scenarios.

[baswell]

Flew in one from the right seat once. Hot day, max gross. Took a lot of runway, didn't climb very well. (no worse than a C172, mind you)

Cruise (down low) was good and comfortable, plenty of room. Most comfortable lighty I've ever been in.

I know nothing about maintenance and operation cost, but based on the experience, it is easy to see why private buyers buy these things in droves over a 172. (In the US anyway)

I know I'd really, REALLY enjoy cruising one around Australia!

Would I buy one? Probably not. I'd likely buy an RV-10 kit and have the boys in Goolwa put it together for me. SR-22 performance well below SR-20 price and likely less maintenance bill shock.

[Old Akro]

The Continental IO-360 in the Cirrus is more likely to suffer cylinder distortion (barrel shaped cylinders) or valve seat problems than things like cylinder cracking. You wont really know if there is an issue from LOP or shock cooling until one day the LAME says the compression's are low and pulls a pot. In my experience the danger zone for this is 800 - 1200 hours.

The guys that do most dyne & analysis work on the Continental IO-360 are ....Continental! Read the engine operators manual.

I would have thought you could put a lot of fruit into the panel of a low time Archer II for the same money as an SR20

[VH-XXX]

Is there even an agent in Australia now after what happened up north a few months back?

[Jabawocky]

I'd likely buy an RV-10

And suffer climb performance like this at full weight! :E

http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab58/jaba430/IMG_0855.jpg

[VH-XXX]

Jeez Jaba at 56.5 litres per hour I think you were on your way up to find one of these babies!

http://defense-update.com/newscast/newsimages/kc767japan.jpg

[baswell]

And suffer climb performance like this at full weight!
LOL, how do you cope!? Is that the best rate speed or a cruise climb?

[Jabawocky]

cruise climb. :ok:

Best rate..........:eek:

Typical climb is 120-125 IAS, and even then its impressive. I try not to exceed 800-1000 fpm as it puts pressure on ATC to issue clearances......or me to stay below CTA, but lets say one day when Capt CM was at the stick ATC gave him a request to make at least 7000' by a certain time :} I think they thought it was Jet powered! He was there by abeam YRED. :D

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab58/jaba430/IMG_0855.jpg

How can you find the ROC among all that mess?

Dr :8

[Jabawocky]

Did you work out how to start the LanceTailedDrKiller this afternoon? :}

Jaba :8

[desmotronic]

bet it spins better than a cirrus jabba

[Capt Fathom]

The term delusions of granduer comes too mind! :rolleyes:

[Jabawocky]

bet it spins better than a cirrus jabba

Not tried, nor is it approved, but you are probably right.

Having said that with the chute deployed I bet the SR's spin nicely :uhoh:

[Jack Ranga]

I was in one one day and it was climbing like a burnt s@@!^*% (scalded cat for the politically correct) 2200ft per minute (2pob, full fuel)

[jas24zzk]

Australian Cirrus parts supplier

Tupperware Home Page (http://www.tupperware.com.au)

[Triple Captain]

Would I buy one? Probably not. I'd likely buy an RV-10 kit and have the boys in Goolwa put it together for me.

My QB is not getting enough of my time and is needing the attention, who are these that assist in the building of my project from Goolwa?

[Jabawocky]

Check PM's, rather than thread drift further.

[Arnold E]

who are these that assist in the building of my project from Goolwa?

The name of the guy that runs the show is Lyndon, mob 0417802964 :)

[Best Rate]

Thanks all for the (mostly) constructive information on the Cirri...

Hopefully time will provide some enjoyable and reasonably economical aviating in our little jigger when we grab it in the next few weeks...

Keep the blue side UP (unless you're in an RV-10 or other Aerobatic machines that is....)

Best Rate :ok: