Wife's HP laptop dead. Life won't be worth living.

[Loose rivets]

Please help, this HP laptop, variously described as an HP 6910us and on the bottom label, HP 6700, has gone TU.


G-son using it and he says it just quit, as though power pulled from it with no battery.

Attempting to start it gives the blue lights everywhere for less than a second. Then nothing.

Taking the battery out makes no difference. Blue lite around the plug lights up.

Any ideas?

[Milo Minderbinder]

Its knackerd
Its one of the HP machines with an nVidia graphics chip. They're held on with low-lead solder and the contacts go - and the machine dies. Thats probably the case here.
Its theoretically possible to fix them by reballing the solder contacts on the graphics chip. I know people who claim to be able to do this at reasonable cost - though I've never used them. PM me if you want their contact details.
But if you just Google "nVidia graphics laptop reball" you should find several who can do it
Word of warning - if anyone says they'll fix it by putting the board through a reflow oven, walk away. Just reheating the solder doesn't work long term. The solder has to be replaced through reballing.

Its a well know well documented problem common to ALL laptops with nVidia graphics - not just HP

[42psi]

If it's not too old it's worth contacting HP.

I had the same problem with an HP dv5.

I contacted HP (laptop bought through Dixons/Currys who didn't want to know) pointing out that while the machine was more than a year old the problem was a well known and publicised manufacturing fault.

Also pointed out the EU regulations say the warranty period for such goods within the eu is 2yrs.

I specified that an acceptable resolution would be either a permanent repair or a replacement with a reliable similar machine.

HP accepted this and took the laptop back.

They replaced the motherboard and processor and fitted "upgraded" cooling.

It's worked like a dream since then.

I found that being polite but firm seemed to work ... first level support did not want to play but eventually they passed it upwards .. once they decided to accept responsibility the service was impressive and quick.

:ok:

[Milo Minderbinder]

The upgraded cooling was probably a BIOS flash which made the fan run semi-permanently rather than just occasionally. Tends to reduce the battery charge life


Its worth considering that this IS a well documented problem, and on SOME models HP unilaterally extended the warranty period, but I don't believe this is one of them
However, it does give you leverage against HP or Dixons -if you want to play hard - in that the machine was sold with a manufacturing fault and so they have a liability under EU law
Howver I've not yet met anyone who has had the persistence to take anyone to court over it. In this case it would have to be Dixons as they are who you have the sales contract with

[Gertrude the Wombat]

I've got some real solder, which I bought in the 1970s when I was a schoolboy and haven't used up yet.

Is this worth money then?

[Loose rivets]

Mmm . . . problem is, it was purchased in Texas, just after getting my Sony. It was a heck of a deal, so had to buy it, but shortly after I recall Keef saying something about overheated solder joints. :ugh: Not such a good deal after all.

So, the video card/chip. But wouldn't that allow the unit to boot, but not display?

I'll have a bash at HP here, but we're in the 6month world - unless you pay for extended warranty.:* Failing that, I'll open it up and get the old jeweler's loop out. I can fabricate a fine soldering iron tip, but I really do need that Proper lead solder. I've got some, but it's in a HUGE box with all my old electronics gear 5,000 miles away.

[Mr Optimistic]

Tried a hard reset?

[Milo Minderbinder]

Loose Rivets - no, it shorts out the whole board and stops it booting

Heres what you have to do. You need a fair amount of kit, including a desoldering gun and templates

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnkGXjcNzag&feature=relmfu

[Loose rivets]

Yep, tried the hard reset, thanks.


Checking the soldering, and I've had some success with discrete legs on early LSI, but buggah, that looks hard. No poking around legs that look like centipede legs then? Who ever came up with .6mm balls? Oh, buggah!

One will look at it again in the morning. Not that that it will make much difference. I can't even see how the HD comes out, and it doesn't get much more basic than that.

I've downloaded the manual, and will chat up HP on Tues. Don't hold out much hope though.

The Rivetess is off to the UK in two weeks, so my feeling is it will be a new laptop simply to get over our disastrous logistics at the moment. Should have put in for a new board when Keef posted, but too honest. Wish I wasn't.

[RJ Kanary]

Lenovo was victimised by the same nVidia GPU.I inherited my wife's T-61 because of it. The good will repair offer expired in October of 2011, so I missed out.That's when I inherited it. Word on the boards is the issue is internal to the chip. The leads from the pins to the actual chip are the culprit.
I have obtained a MoBo that contains one of the rare nVidia GPUs that were released to address the concern.But as long as the GPU/CPU temp is kept at 180 F or higher, it works. Too cold, it dies.I revived it by baking it with its own heat until thermal shut down occurred.Until it croaks totally it does what i need it to do, and the parts to repair it are here. :)

[oldbeefer]

Was given a dead HP 6000. Dismantled, baked mobo in a 200 degrees C oven for 20 mins. Left to cool - still working 6mths later. So sometimes it does work.

[mixture]

Who ever came up with .6mm balls?

Its surface mount packaging, usually all done by precise automated processes, hence tight criteria.

ylk6VMBLrvM

[Loose rivets]

Thanks for posting that. Fascinating. Can't understand why the rear plugs needed a human.

Corrected mistake in the OP, should be 6700 on the bottom label.


Can't believe any deal ran out in October! :ugh: Mind you, this one is about 4 years old, the Rivetess informs me. Seemed like yesterday.


Do laptop HDs use a common connector? ie are they interchangeable between makes?

Can I put one in a USB converter to extract the data? Indeed, can I use this drive as the bootable drive in a PC? I only have the restore discs that came with the HP. It's only Vista, so no great loss, just the principle of not letting the buggahs win.

[mixture]

Can't understand why the rear plugs needed a human.

Have done a bit of digging around, it seems that nonstandard, odd-formed or odd-shaped components cannot be inserted by automated lines, hence requiring manual insertion. However manual insertion can slow down a line by up to 80% (generic figure, not Fujitsu specific)... hence as part of the design process a detailed cost analysis is done and its the stage where manual insertion tends to be minimised to the max by the beancounters.

Do laptop HDs use a common connector? ie are they interchangeable between makes?

Yes. Largely all SATA these days, or IDE if you're an older generation.

Can I put one in a USB converter to extract the data?

Shouldn't be a problem. Its what the forensics guys do, although their USB converter is known as a "forensic bridge" because it's hardware limited to be read-only :cool:

[Milo Minderbinder]

Laptop hard drives are standard - either SATA or IDE depending on age.
SATA conenctors are the same as in a desktop, IDE connectors are a smaller form factor than used in a desktop though you can get adaptors.
Sometimes you will find an interface plug adaptor attached to the drive - these just pull off
Best bet is - as you suggest - to use a USB adaptor to transfer the data.
Don't go down the route of trying to use the old drive in a new machine, not worth the problems with drivers, unmatched operating system, windows activation, older drive anyway...etc.etc.etc
Just copy the files across. There's one gotcha though - if the old machine had XP on it and the new one Vista or Win7 you may get file access problems which will need you to change the security permissions on the user profiles on the old drive

[hellsbrink]

Can I put one in a USB converter to extract the data? Indeed, can I use this drive as the bootable drive in a PC? I only have the restore discs that came with the HP. It's only Vista, so no great loss, just the principle of not letting the buggahs win.

Yes, you can buy an empty enclosure to turn it into a portable usb drive, they only cost around £10. Stick the drive in the box, plug in the USB cable, away you go.

[Loose rivets]

Thanks for the info chaps. Tomorrow I'll know if it's a potential dead loss and then get out the electric paint stripper and a woodworkers G clamp.:}

O five sparrow's this AM, I'm lying in bed thinking of ways to keep the chip cool while attacking the surrounding daughter board. The G-clamp might do the trick, but have to be a quick release one.

I've wasted months of my life doing things like this. Resetting the tabs on video recorder heads - an inordinately difficult task according to some - but that's why I had to do it. My first Vaio was an insurance/Sony write off. A bit of micro surgery on the MB, and I used it for years. So, I know I won't be able to resist a bash at this.

If we can use the drive that would be a major step. I'd recently mentioned to her that she should download her entire disc to the Seagate BlackAmor network drive. But she just huffed something about being silly, and it didn't get done. Serves her right, but now I feel sorry for her.:rolleyes:

[Loose rivets]

I've looked through the 26 pages/photos of how to disassemble the 6700. A lot of work just to look inside. I've removed the goodies, (the HD just wanted pulling hard.) and powered up each time in the hope one item was crow-baring the power. Just the same.

How to take apart HP Pavilion dv6000 laptop >> Inside my laptop (http://www.insidemylaptop.com/take-apart-hp-pavilion-dv6000-laptop/)

Tomorrow, when blood is undiluted, I'll sneak a look inside. No chance of HP doing anything by the sound of it. Nvidia have brought their compensation period to a close - as stated above, in 2011.

Now, here's a clever young chap. He may well have hit the nail on the head.


Gado Student

Re: DV6700 Overheating
Options

10-02-2011

I had the same problem for almost 3 years. I was just about giving up on this computer when I decided to give it a shot at tearing this thing completely apart. I followed a good procedure on this web site http://www.insidemylaptop.com/disassemble-hp-pavilion-dv6500-dv6600-dv6700-dv6800-notebooks/

It was about 95% accurate for dv6700. I removed the fan/heatsink assembly and cleaned it. The laptop got quite a bit cooler and the time to total-meltdown went from about 1 hour to more than 3 hours. But it still eventually "froze" (how ironic). The center of the keyboard and the touchpad still got extremely hot.

Unsatisfied, I attempted a second repair. This time I found the real culprit. Due to either a design flaw or manufacturing mistake, somehow, the GPU dose not touch the fan/heatsink contact plate. Instead, there is a piece of flexible plastic spacer in place. No wonder the center of the unit gets so hot. Luckily, the solution is simple. I used a dime, which happens to be about the same thickness, to replace the spacer. Of course, you need to use thermal grease to improve contact. Now my dv6700 runs very cool. The center feels warm but not hot. If you put your hand at the fan exhaust it actually feels cool! It's amazing what a dime can do in this economy.

I'm really puzzled that HP could not find the cause and therefore a solution for such a widespread problem. I think HP truly owes all dv6700 customers a big refund.

[Loose rivets]

Sleeves rolled up, and rarin' to go, but I thought I'd just give HP a quick call. They'd want real money to talk technical, but they did say this serial number was not one listed with an Nvidia issue!

I was already keeping my mind open to other issues, but can this mean a real diversion away from the chip-fail logic?

It's as though the power line somewhere is being crow-bared. Blue lights come on and go off well within a second.

I'll take out the wi-fi unit and the blue tooth (didn't know it had got that.) Not much left to take out of the equation.

[Tim_CPL]

I've taken apart a few of those machines - be careful, the flex cable that connects the speakers to the main board is very easy to break. The machine is a royal pain in the a$$ to take apart, one of the worst IMHO. Lots of hidden flex connectors and screw lengths. Next time I'd suggest a Dell. I picked up a Dell E6400 on ebay (in the US) for $212 including shipping. For future reference, unless you are an avid gamer, avoid dedicated graphics and go for integrated.

Most modern(ish) machines will exhibit the failure modes you describe, if some major subsystem doesn't check out, the machine's power control cct will shut the machine down.

[Milo Minderbinder]

Rivets
"they did say this serial number was not one listed with an Nvidia issue! "

HP never admitted that ALL machines fitted with nVidia graphics at are risk, just some. But experience shows that just about all nVidia chips DO have this problem. Its just that HP and nVidia are cagey about admitting it due to exposing themselves to another court action (Dell or instance got hammered in a group action in the USA).

the simple fact is, go and have a look around whichever in the USA is the closest to PCWord and see what graphcs chip the laptops on display have. You'll find Intel and AMD/ATi Radions, you'll find few - if any - nVidia chips.


Their desktop cards have the same problem though thats not really hit public knowledge yet as people tend to just replace the dead card and not make the link - and also the failure rate is lower due to better cooling. However the fact is, any and all nVidia graphiics chips from roughly the last five years are at risk

[Loose rivets]

That's astonishing . . . and a name I thought would be safe to go for.


avoid dedicated graphics and go for integrated.


It's funny, but I've spent ages trying to get laptops with dedicated graphics. :rolleyes: Now I know of what you speak. It came from the days my company, the first Prompt Computing Ltd., in the world, leaped into the CAD market in part because of using a card with V-Ram. One megabyte of it.

I knew just when AutoCAD would need to regenerate, and by not letting it, my 386 machines outperformed the $300,000 HP minis. Plus folk had never seen 21" colour monitors before.

I'm rambling again, but it is my coffee break.

Most modern(ish) machines will exhibit the failure modes you describe, if some major subsystem doesn't check out, the machine's power control cct will shut the machine down.

That's a very significant point, especially as I was hoping to remove the graphics chip and use a monitor if all else failed. One guy above doing the re-balling, said the Nvidia bit is not used for the VGA output. But, if some internal monitoring won't accept this part missing, I'm SOL with that one. We'll see.

[TWT]

I had an old company supplied HP laptop and the motherboard failed.I removed the HDD and bought another laptop secondhand,the same model which had been barely used and was in excellent condition.I then formatted the HDD in the 'new' unit before copying the data from the old one onto the new one using a 3rd laptop.I then just plugged the HDD in,and it booted up fine,Windows only had to go searching for 1 driver for the different soundcard and that was it,job done.

[Loose rivets]

It might well end up being the only option apart from a new one. The darn daughterboard has numerous surface mount devices right where I was going to put the heat. Also, there are a lot of components very near the board. I can just see a few balls. What were they thinking!!!!!!!!!?????????????? :ugh:

Best laid plans and all that.


Very strange, that student made the comment about the plastic stuff between the heatsink and the chip. It's very thick. 3mm at least. I assume they must know what they're doing . . . they do, don't they?

I know it must be heat conducting, but I rather think his suggested penny might be better. He said his worked.

I've got next to no chance of powering this up temporarily without a lot of work. So, not a case of trying this and that between reboots.

I'll post a pic or two. I wish Pprune hosted pics.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v703/walnaze/PpruNe/DSCF1503.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v703/walnaze/PpruNe/DSCF1504.jpg

[Loose rivets]

Those two heavy current devices on the right are also under heat sinks. R45X. They read about an ohm in both directions. Anyone know what they are?

[Milo Minderbinder]

I'd guess they are cache memory, but without a closeup I'd never swear to it.

As DIY reballing is out, it could be worth just sticking the motherboard in an oven and baking it for a while and hope the solder reflows (as someone said they;d done earlier)
Reflowing isn;t ideal as a long term fix, but it could be worth a try. Take the CPU out first though - I see you've still got that fitted. Its held in by that screwlock on the socket

[Loose rivets]

Just been looking at another site with a helpful techie. He says a last resort kind of thing is worth trying. Prepare to be disappointed. But several posters claim it's worked for them. 220c for c 7 mins.

Still wondering how to make a localized source of intense IR. I could shield the little components on top.

I'm going to give this some thought tonight, but the notion of pressing the daughterboard down during heating is seeming sensible. However, it has some very hard - not quite rigid - red sealant around the edges. Just another obstacle to my plans.

I have to put this in the category of messing about for fun. It's already waaaaaay past cost effective.


Thinks: wonder if my grandson will help me put it together again.:(

[Bushfiva]

If it hadn't been disassembled, the street price for the video repair is around $80 with warranty.

[Loose rivets]

Aaaaaagggh! Tell me now!

But surely, they'd be pleased not to have to take it apart? Mind you, they'd not want someone else messing with something that would affect the warranty.

So many warnings about duff workmanship, but any links, just in case?

[Bushfiva]

zcarlo on ebay seems to have some stuff, including 2 remaining motherboards out of 9 originally at $80 each. Also, there's a company in livonia, NY offering $50 repair if you ship them the bare board. If they can't fix it, they'll sell you a working motherboards for $150.

Laptop Parts, GPS items in ZKARLO store on eBay! (http://stores.ebay.com/ZKARLO?_trksid=p4340.l2563)
NEW HP Pavilion dv6000 Laptop AMD MOTHERBOARD 443774-001 computer 433280 repair | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-HP-Pavilion-dv6000-Laptop-AMD-MOTHERBOARD-443774-001-computer-433280-repair-/220874239887?pt=Motherboards&hash=item336d216f8f#ht_6287wt_901) but I've not checked if it's your board
dv6000 motherboard | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=dv6000+motherboard&_sacat=0&_odkw=livonia&_lncat=0&_osacat=0&_from=R40)
items in VIVO Technology USA store on eBay! (http://stores.ebay.com/VIVO-Technology-USA?_trksid=p4340.l2563)

I don't know anything about any of these companies, and I've not necessarily linked to your exact motherboard, and whatever you do next is not my fault!

Quick edit 'cos I just read the rest of the thread. The R45X are voltage regulators.

[MacBoero]

If it hadn't been disassembled, the street price for the video repair is around $80 with warranty.

My wife bought an HP TX1000 series laptop in New York many moons ago, and brought it back the UK. It too was one of the models affected by the graphics chip overheat problem, but sadly was not one of the models for which HP admitted to there being a design fault, despite it being the same basic design and the same chips used.

I couldn't get any warranty joy in the UK, it broke down more than two years after purchase anyway. When I enquired with HP UK about a repair the price was £90 and came with a 90 days warranty on the repair work. I elected not to go ahead as I wasn't convinced that it wouldn't simply do the same thing again, and bought her a different machine.

[mixture]

Loose rivets,

Slightly concerned about your choice of work surface.... :E

[Loose rivets]

Quick edit 'cos I just read the rest of the thread. The R45X are voltage regulators.

Thanks. That makes sense.


Need to do some writing today, and perhaps play later. The six hour difference found me chatting to folk in the UK until 03:30 this morning. Not unusual.

Thanks for the links. I'll look at the sites later. Already 11:30 :(

[Loose rivets]

Slightly concerned about your choice of work surface....

Oh, it's not all that bad. $20 from a house up the road. However, the substantial oak desk had been in the rain for a while, and by the time I got it home it needed re-gluing. Quick scrape an Ronseal, and I was away. The big HP laser goes in the old printer bay just right. It fitted perfectly into the old wardrobe alcove. Static? Well, high humidity here, and so much is to do with handling the boards. I freak out when I see someone with their paws all over the back of the print. I imagine the huge waveforms I see when I touch the probes of me scope, and make sure they don't get fed into the board.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v703/walnaze/PpruNe/DSCF1496.jpg

[obgraham]

Clamp. Scissor. Knife. Pickup.
With that set of tools and a pan of boiling water, Rivvy, I could perform most any surgery.
Can you get that scope to produce a spark? -- for control of bleeders!

[mixture]

LR,

Was that a before or after photo ? :E

[Loose rivets]

Sadly, before. One has been writing today.


The forceps - if indeed that's the correct name for them - are the real thing. A batch of about 20 from a London Hospital I obtained, perhaps from Proops. RIP :(

Some of the replicas from China are very real looking. $4.

I make sure each of my kids have a few in the medicine cupboard on a 'just in case' basis. M-I-L had to poke a pen top down my daughter when she was about 3. Could see it, but couldn't get it out and the child couldn't breath.

So glad it was all over before I heard about it. Yes, it reappeared a couple of days later.


I brought a wooden cased cure-all thingie back from the UK. My son has it to show his students. It's one of those things that cause different shaped tubes to glow and one gives a vicious spark to sap spots. There is even a pair of flattened spheres that go over eyeballs. I haven't tried that one.

Think it needs a new Tessler coil. Job for next week.

[Bushfiva]

Look out chaps, he's got a Tesla coil. Tell us when you're about to turn on the repaired violet wand so we can all step back a bit. Also, tell us where you are so we're sure we're stepping away from you, not towards you.

[Mechta]

I've got an HP DV6152, on which the video failed when it got left on a carpet when I was called to come for a meal. :ugh: I've looked at getting another motherboard, but they all seem to be £50 + carriage from China for a used one, with no guarnatee of success.

Regarding Proops, have they really gone? There is still a website: Home (http://www.proopsbrothers.com/)

Mechta Senior used to work at MOD (PE) in St Giles Court, and Proops in Tottenham Court Road was his regular lunchtime haunt. I lost count of the number of times we had this conversation, when he arrived home with some bit of surplus kit from Proops:

Mechta: 'What is it Dad?'

Mechta Senior: 'I don't know, but it was cheap!

[jimtherev]

...with some bit of surplus kit from Proops:

Mechta: 'What is it Dad?'

Mechta Senior: 'I don't know, but it was cheap!

I recognise that exchange.
But I'm not your Dad.
Honest. ;)

[Mechta]

I recognise that exchange.
But I'm not your Dad.
Honest. http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/wink2.gif

:ok::ok::ok:

[390cruise]

Dearest Rivets.

My suggestion would be;
a) Place machine in the bin.
b) Proceed to 'The Victory'.

Job done.

390
(For info the Victory is a place where Captain Rivets is known to consume beer from time to time)

[PowerDragTrim]

Might be of no use, but I had a very similar set of symptoms with a Dell laptop. It turned out to be no more than a sticky switch that normally shuts off the laptop if the lid is closed. Trace of switch cleaner and all was well!

[Mechta]

What was really on odd on my DV6152, was that on one attempt some months after it packed up, it did come back to life.:confused: Subsequent attempts were back to the two short bleeps and a long one (I think). Maybe a look at the solder joints under a microscope is required?

[Loose rivets]

390 !! Computer in bin, tickets being printed out, and will expect the Chablis to be chilled on my arrival. Aaaah, and fish and chips. Why the heck did I leave? Just dreaming, I have to take over the g-parenting tasks now the Rivetess is heading your way.

Okay, finished a writing session at 03:00 this am, so will allow a bit more time on futile gestures.

Yes, thinking laterally about other possibilities. Lid switch? Have to say I hadn't thought about that.

Hours musing over how to get serious heat in the tiny gap under the daughterboard, then crush it down and keep permanent pressure on with the heat sink. Trouble is, the fan end seems to float until the case is on. Nowhere to really get accurate downward force from.


Proops? Well, I went past there one night, and having been told it had closed, at first refused to look. I peeked through slitted eyes. If my navigation wasn't too alcohol-modified, it twern't there.:{ I'll look at that link later.

I got two protractors there. Did all my exams with one of them, and still doing woodwork with the other. 1/= each.

[Loose rivets]

The daughter-board is surrounded by a bead of red shiny stuff that's as hard as epoxy and does not melt. I imagine it's an HP fix for the problem, and why this batch is not on their list.

I felt defeated by this, as all my plans revolved around removing it, so I heated the D-boad with an iron in several places, while pressing down hard. I then made an ally block to replace the blue rubbery stuff. The idea is it's thicker/solid and will press down on the chip - flexing the d-board minutely from the red stuff's hold.

I did a very hurried throw-together, and lo, it came on line - up to BIOS stage. (no keyb or HD.)

So, not counting my chickens, as I feel I may just have touched on some other fault, but we,ll see when I get some paste and rebuild it properly.

[Loose rivets]

Mr Optimistic said in the Thermal Compound thread.

(I'll close that one to save hogging bandwidth.)

What gap? there must be no visible gap.



Yep, with the wedge in, one end was minutely up. Only a rubber type compound would fill this gap. Totally crap design as the entire fan and copper bar are one lump and that would have to be perfect to lie flat. That could never happen.

I've even toyed with the idea of pulling the other side down with a nut and bolt, but even an 8 BA would be a tad large, so didn't.

All pasted up, and pulled down by the fit in the case. All done perfectly, and now it doesn't go again. Did go once or twice since rebuild, but that's all. One is being tried.

Sort of losing hope. Just can't find the indeterminacy, and it could of course still be the graphics chip.

I've wasted hours on it, but in the old days I'd never be beaten, but now things are so . . . conditional. Even the ribbons to the speaker trim have to be in, making it so hard/delicate to work on.

On one of the runs where it did go (since the careful rebuild) the fan stopped and the screen went black as the power-button/speaker trim was moved. Testing the ribbons and the really skinny wires to the power-button, have produced nothing. Just coincidence I guess.

Better than playing FreeCell I suppose.

[Markfire]

Hi

Well it was entertaining reading your exploits into the world of a knackered cpu fan!

Ebay replacements £15.00 1.5 hours labour and jobs a good'n............unless you've never replaced one before!

Most HP laptops end up being binned or the owner gets charged large amounts of hard earned dollar to fix it.

How did this one end, bin?

thanks again for a great read, i know how you feel : )

[Loose rivets]

Top of the suspect list is the interface between the Nvidia's daughterboard and the motherboard. Point-six mm balls of solder indeed.

This soldering system was designed by a tree-full of monkeys - almost certainly a lower species. Then they picked from the ones that had fallen out of said tree, making use of a sub-selection that had fallen on their heads. This group no doubt gained a liking for wearing hats with little propellers on the top, and have the need to wear huge bottle lenses in their glasses. Finally, they picked out the ones that showed a natural dislike - nay hatred, of humans.

Breathe deeply . . .


I ripped it apart again last night. With great care and X15 mag, I can just see the little balls in a gap of the red stuff - and they are almost spherical. There is no sign at all of wetting/running of the solder. I have no doubt the contact surfaces are, in part at least, glued together with dried flux. I'm right back to getting that red stuff off and starting again. Just have to resist all temptation of dashing it to the ground and jumping on it.:*