FI(H) Ratings - Info Request

[Geoffersincornwall]

I am trying to gather information about the process by which FI(H) ratings are achieved under the many jurisdictions out there.

I believe that under EASA for instance you must have a minimum of 250 hours logged before being eligible to apply for the course. If this is correct it seems very little. Presumably this is with a CPL(H). The course is about 40 hours and 6 weeks and I think will cost around 30,000 Euros.

What are the equivalent minimums in other jurisdictions - FAA, Canada, Australia, Brazil, India, China etc etc.

G. :ok:

[Um... lifting...]

FAA is a mite less, and it's spelled out differently. One must hold a commercial or higher, and commercial requires 250 hours if trained under Part 61 of the FARs for single-engine fixed wing, and 150 hours for helicopter only, normally. But it depends where one was trained.
If one obtains a commercial certificate through military equivalency (which is common), one can get both certificates with somewhat less than that amount of time, commonly somewhere around 210-220 hours.

Except when fewer hours are approved by the Administrator (FAA), an applicant for a commercial pilot certificate with an airplane, helicopter, or a powered-lift rating who has satisfactorily completed an approved commercial pilot course conducted by a training center certificated under FAA Part 142 of this chapter need only have a total of 190 hours for an airplane or powered-lift rating and total of 150 hours for a helicopter rating to meet the aeronautical experience requirements of this section.

[Geoffersincornwall]

Seems that on the one hand we have the International Helicopter Safety Team highlighting that accidents are often caused by

'bad decision making skills',

then on the other hand their training material points to the need for trainers to be able to conduct complex training tasks with sophisticated resources in order to accomplish this. Are such skills compatible with a pilot with 250 hours under his belt?

This from IHST Training Toolbox - which, incidentally is well worth a look at http://www.ihst.org/portals/54/2009_Training_Toolkit_Final.pdf


Human Factors, Risk Management, and Decision Making
Training in human factors, risk management and decision making is crucial to providing quality effective training. Analysis of accidents has continually shown that these elements were deficient. It is imperative that all training includes these elements in great detail and that the training in these factors contains current realistic scenarios to reinforce the concepts. These are considered “soft skills” and are often difficult to instruct as well as learn unless effective visual training aids are used. Simulators and flight training devices are the most effective tools for instilling these principles. Role playing, teamwork and communication exercises are also very effective for use in the classroom environment.

The italics are mine and serve to highlight the main points.

G. :ok:

[John Eacott]

Geoff,

Australia:

4 AERONAUTICAL EXPERIENCE
4.1 Aeronautical experience gained in approved synthetic flight trainers shall not contribute to the minimum aeronautical requirements specified in this section.
4.2 An applicant for the issue of a flight instructor (helicopter) rating grade 2 must:
(a) hold a commercial pilot (helicopter) licence or an air transport pilot (helicopter) licence; and
(b) have at least 400 hours of flight time in a helicopter; and
(c) have completed a course of training in accordance with paragraph 4.2.1.
4.2.1 The course of training mentioned in subparagraph 4.2 (c) must:
(a) include at least 40 hours of dual instruction given by a Grade 1 flight instructor; and
(b) be in accordance with the syllabus set out in paragraph 1 of Appendix I.
4.2.2 In spite of subparagraph 4.2.1 (a), the course of training may include not more than 15 hours of mutual practice.
4.3 An applicant for the issue of a flight instructor (helicopter) rating grade 1 must:
(a) hold a commercial pilot (helicopter) licence or an air transport pilot (helicopter) licence; and
(b) hold, or have held, a flight instructor (helicopter) rating grade 2; and
(c) have at least 1 200 hours of flight time as a pilot in a helicopter, being flight time that includes at least 400 hours during which the applicant gave elementary helicopter flying training.

CAO 40.3.7 (http://www.casa.gov.au/download/orders/cao40/400307.pdf)

[Geoffersincornwall]

Cripes John!

Bit steeper than over this way. More food for thought.

Thanks

G. :ok:

[Savoia]

I understand how access to becoming a flying instructor serves as a crucial resource (stepping stone) for many in developing their aviation careers but, I must say, from the very beginning of my exposure to professional aviation I felt felt that we have the system somewhat 'arse-about-face' (if you'll excuse the expression).

In civvie street surely the desirable arrangement would be to attract high-timers prior to them being put out to pasture so that they might impart their wealth of experience onto the newbies.

In the military, while instructors might not necessarily have thousands of hours this (in my view) is more than compensated for by the ongoing 'training culture' which pretty much permeates one's operational flying in the forces.

Having stated the above I do observe that the statistics involving low-time civilian instructors teaching others their own basic skills has not returned a frighting number of incidents during training so, perhaps, when it comes to passing-on the most basic flying skills this arrangement is acceptable? The other possibility of course is that the contrast in varying experience levels between instructors might manifest itself outside of the flight school!

What is certain is that when it comes to specialist work (longline, SAR, spraying etc.) one requires 'induction' and training and this, usually, is carried-out by those with reasonable levels of experience.

In my own situation I was fortunate to benefit from my godfather's 20,000+ hours of flying and which he began passing on to me from the age of 10. When it came to completing my initial licence it was over to Dennisimo at Booker where I fell under the watchful eye of the late Tony 'Antonio' "Nobby" Clake who similarly possessed a wealth of experience and which you felt when you flew with him.

I must sat that I would like to have seen civilian flying schools populated with 'old boys' with all their stories passing-on their skills to the young ones, there seems to be something poetic about it but .. I am quite prepared to be found wrong in this matter which, I readily admit, is somewhat idealistic!

[SunderlandMatt]

Totally agree Savoia,

A 250 hour pilot, IMHO, is in no position to be an FI. Agreed that there may not necessarily be a spike in the accident statistics for low hour FIs but I think their value is minimal compared to an 'old timer'.

It is however a catch22. The young guys need hours to get a commercial air transport job and the 'old timers' want more money. I've learnt a huge amount simply from being surrounded by very experienced pilots in the crew room, something I'm not so sure happens at an FTO.

Not a dig at the 250 hour FI's directly, just at the situation in general.

[Geoffersincornwall]

........ anyone from South America, Africa or Asia have any contribution to make that will inform us about how instructor ratings are obtained and what minimum experience is required?

Thanks

G. :ok:

[Geoffersincornwall]

........... let's have some feedback from outside Europe, US and Aus. There has to be somebody in South America, Africa and Asia who can inform us about how flight instructors get their qualifications and how the training sector works.G. :)

[PapaechoIT]

@Geoffersincornwal
Hi, I'm an Italian too, JAA requires CPL (H) - 250 Fh - Current on at least a type of which you require to train on, and last but not least, a consolidated exam to be taken the same day of practical exam.

Tipically on a Robinson 22 the costs is about 14/15000 € in Italy. The course is 40h Groundschool and 30h Flying with 5 reciprocates.

Regarding the FAA one, FAR's requires a CPL (so 150h of heli) 20h of ground school and at least 3h of flying to be ready to substain examination flight. (Normally the schools offering the CFI course requires 10h on heli to be ready) this applies to the CFI, the CFII (Instrumental, same as IRI under JAA) have the same requirements with the addition of a valid IR and can be achived as a Add-On on your license if you are CFI Rated (but I'm not sure).
The mean costs, as I can view from various school in US, are 5/6000 $ for CFI and 8/9000 $ for CFII all inclusive.
Take in account you should convert your CPL JAA onto a CPL FAA (which requires a consolidated written exam and at least 2/3 hours + flight exam) before starting a CFI/CFII rating.

The only thing I'm not sure of, regards the possibility and method of conversions between FAA CFI/CFII and JAA FI/IRI, I'm not sure is simple and/or possible at all. (Knowing European minds).

For the Transport Canada CFI I'm still ceckin' out, so stay tuned. But I'm shure they requires 250fh.

Ciao,
PE :ok: