Getting an ATPL...?

[EchoKiloEcho]

Hi

I have finally reached 1,500TT, 500+ hrs Multi Crew, 100+ hours night, 500+ hours cross country etc & my company requires me to have an ATPL to be considered for captain upgrade in the future. I basically need a 'foreign ATP' so that I can convert without exams to current license/country I fly.

Does anyone have information on ways of getting an ATPL? A couple of guys went to the US to ALL ATP where they did the 3 day ATP course with flight test & written test on the Piper Seminole costing approx $4,000, and another went to a company in Dallas to do a 10 day B737 type rating that included an FAA ATP checkride for $7,000.

I don't see the reason wasting 4k on flying a single pilot piston to get my ATPL or spending 7k on aB737 type rating. Are there any cheaper ways of getting my ATPL? Maybe a cheap citation rating to do the FAA ATP checkride included?

I hold a FAA CPL ME IR, JAR/EASA fATPL.

Any ideas or experiences will be appreciated! EKE

[Hitbacker]

Hi,

just finished my training here - if you look for the biggest bank for the buck, there is a reason why AF Colonels that command B-2s, B-1Bs, KC-135s etc. plus half the Singapore Air Force do it here.

If you don't need a typerating, I guess this is the most affordable way. If you need a typerating then I am the wrong guy to answer where you could get it any cheaper.

Good luck, since I am at 290 hrs I unfortunately don't have the luxury of asking your question yet ;-),

[wingreencard]

why they dont pay you it?

[XiRho]

Apologies if I have mis understood the situation, but it sounds like you are talking about the JAR ATPL. Why do you need to go to the states to get an FAA ATP and then covert, if you already have the "fATPL" (CPL, ME IR, MCC and exams complete). Is it not just a matter of doing the relevant skills test?

[Ollie Onion]

Who are you currently flying for??

Most of the time you can get an ATPL issued whilst doing your annual LST in the simulator or aircraft. I assume that since you need the ATPL to take a command you must be working for someone who operates multicrew aircraft, why not just get them to sign the ATPL flight test form during one of your checks??

Otherwise it might be just as cheap to hire an aircraft or simulator for your current type and just book a CAA examiner. Getting a foreign licence and then converting seems a long way to go about it.

[EchoKiloEcho]

I cannot unfreeze my JAA ATPL on the type I am flying at the moment, otherwise I would just fly to the UK & rent a sim & do an ATPL flighf test. The company does pay for the ATPL but I need a foreign ATPL to convert otherwise I need to write all the local ATP exams. Easiest way is to get an FAA ATP then I just convert to the local ATP.

My question...are there any otherways of getting an FAA license that doing the flight test in a piston twin?

[Tinstaafl]

For the FAA ATP, yes. Do it on a piston single. Find a small school that is SEVIS approved, in a quiet region, that's relatively cheap and has access to an FAA examiner and has both precision & non-precision approaches nearby. The precision will be an ILS, the non-precision can be anything.

* Jump through the TSA insecurity bull****.
* Do the ATP theory exam
* Whatever amount of flying training in the single engine aircraft you need to be able to pass the test.
* Do the flight test in a single with the FAA. It's free with the FAA, unlike using a Designated Pilot Examiner.

Your FAA ATP will then be valid only for single engine aircraft (land or sea, as appropriate) but it's still an ATP. I did a single engine ATP for both land and sea for the fun of it. Did the test in a C180 amphibian that was land based. Because we did the necessary water & land landings I got both licences from the one flight test.



**If you hold a foreign professional licence there isn't a requirement for an instructor recommendation. You could do the flight test without any training. I wouldn't recommend it unless you're very familiar with the US way of doing things. Remember, the US system uses TERPS, not PANS-OPS criteria.

Other points:

Get a PTS for the ATP. Study it to know what you have to do in the test. Don't forget the FAA ATP test standard is quarter scale tolerance, not half.

Expect an oral portion to your flight test where you'll be given operational scenarios at that licence level and expected to apply the rules correctly.

Also, make sure your hours meet the FAA's ATP requirements as set down in the FARs. They don't care about another jurisdictions requirements, only their own.

[EchoKiloEcho]

Thanks Tinstaafl...sounds like fun!

Ok...better question: How can I unfreeze my JAR fATPL if I fly multi crew on a single crew aeroplane? Will I have to do a type rating in the UK/Europe? Can I do a Citation type rating? Or can I just rent a sim & examiner & do the ATPL test?

Unfreezing my JAR license will be ideal, but I need an ATPL & so far the best option seems to be to go do the flight test in the USA on a piston?:ugh:

[Ollie Onion]

As far as I am aware under EASA, ONLY aircraft that are certified as needing two crew can accrue 'multi crew' hours. If you are flying an aircraft that is certified as single crew only then I have a nasty feeling that those logged hours won't count towards the multicrew requirement for your JAR ATPL. So to unfreeze your JAR ATPL you will still need 500 hours multicrew time on a multicrew certified aircraft.

I know that under FAA you can log the hours for two pilot operations in single engine aircraft, under JAA you can't.

[truckflyer]

If the aircraft is approved for multi-crew operations, trough it's AOC/local CAA you will accrue multi crew hours on the type.

I know this, as I had a chance of getting on a King-air some time ago, the condition that the AOC had to state that it was multi-crew operations, I would assume there would be something similar in other countries too, if not you would not be able to log the hours at all when flying on single-crew aircraft.

From what I understood to get the JAR ATPL issued you will have to take that on a proper multi-crew aircraft though, not on example the King-air, that was one of the reasons I was reluctant, as in theory would have meant I would have had to pay for 2 TR's.

I am not expert on this area, but this is based on the experience and the research I did around this area around 12 months ago. The ATPL must be on a JAR CS 25 aircraft, while I think you probably flying on a JAR CS 23, aircraft that is single crew ops, but probably I assume your company has a special approval to use it as multi-crew from their local CAA.

One thing I was warned about when considering this, was to check with the operator that they actually was properly approved to use multi-crew flying on a normal single crew airplane, as unless approved it would not be possible to log it. And there was stories of operators that did some not tell the whole truth about this to their pilots.

[tommoutrie]

You dont need an ATPL to act as commander of a single crew type even if its operated multi crew under an AOC. So your company can promote you to captain without faffing around with foreign licences. You upgrade to an ATPL when you do a multi crew type rating by asking the examiner to give you an ATPL skills test. If you were building hours in a single crew aeroplane flown multi crew under SOP's agreed with the CAA or under an AOC those hours will count towards the required 500 for the issue of an ATPL.

Hope thats helpful

[paco]

You could always do a multi-crew course instead of slogging through 500 hours or so.