Psychology/Personality tests... How relevant ?

[NewBloke]

I'm sorry if this question has been asked a million times already..... but how seriously do airlines take these tests ? Is it a case of if you don't meet the exact personality criteria you are discarded straight away !? Or are they merely used as a guide ? The thing is, although they are supposed to be answered honestly, and most question are, I'm sure everyone has, at some point, put an answer that they feel best fits traits of a pilot (In their mind anyway) rather than an honest answer. I'm not saying I'm a fraudster, but just curious about the actual validity of such tests and how recruiters use them. I must say, the Oxford test did describe me reasonably accurately, and it only contained about 20 questions !?!?

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"Everything in moderation, including moderation..."

[Autofly]

The tests are pretty acurate and the best way to tackle them is to be as honest as possible.

When I first started applying for sponsorship, I was told so many times not to guess at the answers to the psychology questions but I still did it anyway and it got me nowhere. When I finally answered truthfuly at the Airtours testing last year I got past them. Guessing does not work!!! I'm sure others will agree with me.

The other thing to remember is that with the exception of the GAPAN and MicroPAT tests, most questions at the first stage of the testing is unlikely to by flying orientated i.e. these types of tests are used for many other types of job applcation scheme. The tests have been designed to allow the testing company, or whoever, to get a feel of the type of person you are, therefore, if you guess .......... I think i've ranted enough now. :rolleyes:

Hope this helps

AF

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Go take a look in the Wannabes Archive for several threads on this topic.

WWW

[scroggs]

It doesn't matter a jot what you think of the tests; they exist and most airlines use them. You must answer the questions honestly, or you will be found out! The analysis of these tests is fairly sophisticated, and not easily second-guessed. What you think may be the answer they want may be completely wrong. If you want to get into the airline, play by their rules. If you want to make a protest, or have a problem with these tests, I suggest you try another field. Although, when I think about it, lots of other lines of work also use these tests.

Edited for rushed syntax and spelling!
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Scroggs
Wannabe Forum Moderator
[email protected]

[This message has been edited by scroggs (edited 30 May 2001).]

[Polar_stereographic]

In my profession, (IT) they where used 20 years ago as a means of trying to filter out the better candidates. As there are now more jobs (largly) than applicants, I'm not aware of anybody doing them anymore, although I'm sure someone somewhere will be, unlike previously when everyone did them.

The same probably applies to aviation, in so far as there are more applicants than jobs. As soon as that reverses (which of course it won't), they'll scrap the tests.

Personally, in my experience they are a waste of time. I've seen guys come through them who are useless at their job, and I've also seen people fail who are excelent. My view.

[Pielander]

From what I've heard, the tests serve two purposes:

1. Help the interviewers root out possible weaknesses in an interview. (That's what they're there for).

2. Make sure you're not going to lock the captain out of the flight deck then put the plane into an inverted spin. (Well - you're not, are you?)

Nothing to worry about really. :)

Pie

[A and C]

All the best places i have worked have not used this rubish , it is all a lot of HR empire building and all you get is people that the HR department think that you should have........try sitting in a dark flight deck for ten hours with some of them !

I just thank my luck that to get into the company i work for you have to do an interveiw with one of the flight crew managment.

[Polar_stereographic]

A and C,

Could not agree more. Yet another example of job creation too. Feeds an entire industry in my view.

PS

[Bunty Boy]

These tests are really manky, having sat one or two myself.
The repetition of questions of a certain type will give you a 'lie' score at the end, amongst other things. therefore it really is in your best interest to answer them as truthfully as possible. Trying to be consistent about something you don't really believe is difficult... unless of course you lie for a living. Any car salesmen here?

Bunty

[Turned and Slipped]

aaahhh yes, physcometric tests.

I have no problem with these test when they're run by the airline or an aviation company, it's fair enough that they want to see your thought processes and if your an axe murderer or not, but I've been to a few that are assessed by some completely unrelated physcobable companies.
I got turned down by one because I scored to highly on the abstract reasoning test and according to them this meant that I would get bored on a flight deck (not that I'm bitter).

Anyone who's been to the BA tests should recognise this question: -

'Would you watch a film about an otter?'

Now I'm no physcologist and I've got nothing against otters, but I fail to see how this question can help determine your skills as a pilot!

T&S

[edited for childish spelling]

[Noggin]

If there are 5 answers alternate your answers between 2 and 4. You will show as a well balanced person with no extreme views.

If you answer 3 to all you have no views. If you alternate between 1 and 5 you have views that are too extreme.

Strangely they do give an indication of types of personality and may identify a training risk. It is unlikely that anyone would recruit on such tests alone.

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Psychometric testing was INVENTED to help select people for PILOT TRAINING!!!

It was around a lot longer than HR and its foundation is empirical statisitical proof - NOT Freudian psychobabble.

Every Air Force in the world - expect Ghana - uses these types of tests to select its pilots as do most major airlines. You can't really believe that just becuase little old you doesn't see the relevance of the Otter question then everyone else must be wrong and these tests are invalid. In fact the Otter question forms part of an assesment scale measuring introversion/extroversion. In the UK it was found that males and females between ages 18 - 35 from socio groups AB12 AC12 had a greater than 85% chance of recalling the TV film Tarka The Otter due to endless BBC Christmas re-runs.

This was a useful fact as it represents a good point of common reference for a staid, indoor, low drama, rather have a nice cup of teas than charge stark naked at Jerry kind of activity. A film about an Otter has all those unconcious associations in our heads - or so a sample of say 1,100 people in the target groups discovered.

So you use the Otter question in conjuction with something along the lines of "or would you prefer to go a football match" to increment peoples introversion/extroversion one way or the other by small amount. Then repeat the process in 25 other questions and you should get a reliable trend one way or the other.

The industry that psychometric testing maintains is that of Occupational Pyschologist. A career I almost entered after my degree. When you get into airline flying and see how great an emphasis is placed on CRM then perhaps you will fully appreciate that personality and social skills are more important than seat of the pants stick and rudder poling ability.

Right, off to stop beating the wife now ;)

WWW

[Checkboard]

What if you are not from the U.K., and have never seen "Tarka The Otter"?

It amuses me when people say "Just answer the questions honestly!" Now the very reason for the test is to exclude some people from the job. Telling someone who would normally be excluded to "Just answer the test honestly" is tantamount to telling them to fail the test.

If you are an axemurderer, a little judicious fibbing might just get you in. :) As everyone is aware of this, I fail to see how the tests can remain valid. Everyone who prepares for interviews lies to some extent on psycometric tests.

[This message has been edited by Checkboard (edited 03 June 2001).]

[scanscanscan]

I failed the Staynine tests in 1967 with United USA and this result also made Eastern Airlines immediately not interested.
I was offered a $500.00 two day course on how to pass this exam in Miami and I now regret refusing it.
Because years later United decided it had some wrong stuff in its three man cockpits as a result of the Staynine and did a lot of new and retro CRM training.
National Airlines threw the Staynine out when a senior traing captains son failed it, and then the senior captain took it and also failed it.
Happily I have just retired at 6oyears old with 22000hours accident free, but the tests message that I was unsuitable to be a pilot was carried by me for 33 years.

IMHO the real danger to these tests is if they are "used" by management to fail experienced captains on top salery who are active in the pilot union, or are insisting on the company paying what is due in their contract.


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We will do the drill according to the amendments to the amendments I er think?

[AJ]

Guys,

Stop whinging & just do 'em!

Even my Father, who works for a tobacco company (shock-horror), uses such tests when recruiting grads.

I would suggest you just be yourself & answer the questions honestly.

Anyone advising otherwise will shoot themselves in the foot....

Just my view....

Later,
AJ

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

I take your point about not seeing the Tarka film.

The way testing deals with these differences is through norming. Factors such as your age, sex, educational history, sometimes postcode and even physical size are used to apply filters to your raw test score. The aim being to level the playing field as it were. e.g. the testers are interested in identifying bright people, a bright 16 year old GCSE student though will probably have a lower raw score than a bright post-grad but still be equally 'bright'.

If you are genuinely interested in learning more about how these things work i can supply an excellent reading list.

Cheers,

WWW

[dingducky]

i once had to answer one where you had to put true or false to questions such as, i often feel the need to hurt myself and others and i have trouble controlling my bladder :rolleyes:
you have to think that even if it was true the person anwering would at least be smart enough to lie about those! http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/tongue.gif

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A clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory.

[AJ]

Yes, but have you considered whether such questions might alter your frame of mind such that they affect the way in which you answer the questions that follow? etc.?

Perhaps the question frustrates you, meaning you begin to answer the questions that follow, in a frustrated frame of mind, meaning that perhaps you are a person that gets frustrated too easily when they can't see the obvious reason or solution to a problem!

Just a total guess-but the bottom line is I actually beleive in these tests (don't know why! :) ), and shall be asking WWW for a reading list soon! :)

Rgds,
AJ

[Blindside]

In my experience they are impressively accurate. If you get a group of people together, complete a decent test and analyse the results, you'd be amazed at how uncanny it is.

My only concern is how much weight is given to them, and whether they are used in conjunction with other selection methods or in isolation.

regards

[bow5]

These test, no-matter how much people hate them and try to second guess them, give an accurate indication of a persons personality. They can test all kinds of things including what type of thinker you are - whether or not you take quick decisions or whether or not you will sit and contemplate all options before making a decision. Unfortunately for us, they have been researched into over many years by many diffenent people and they work, so dismissing them as psycho-babble will get you nowhere. People fall into certain defined catagories according to their answers and its these that organisations use.

Your best bet is answer them truthfully. Obviously answering that you 'strongly agree' with sitting in a field and eating cabbages is not going to help you as a pilot but organisations use these tests in conjunction with all the other information they have on you to make the decision. They will not make it on these tests alone.

At the end of the day, it is their game and you want to be part of it so get booted up and play it.

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Now where's that cabbage?

[Polar_stereographic]

bow5

I agree with a lot of what you say, but I still maintain that they are a tad un necesary as a good interviewer should be able to filter out the nutters and get a handle on the sort of personality that he or she is looking for. I can understand them being used as 'justification' to hire some one, particularily if it does not work out, but that's surely not a good reason either.

The usefulness of the test surely becomes questionable when you get companies training you to pass them. Don't tell me they change your personality as that would be rediculous.

btw, I don't have a problem doing them, just remain to be convinced of their benefit.

PS

[NewBloke]

I didn't mean to give the impression that I thought it was all psycho-babble !! My line of thought was on par with Blindside's that's all......