Nigeria whats going On..!!!

[BALEWA]

Foreign Registered Jets all over the place..loads of more foreign crew all over the place with fat packages and the local young lads without jobs hanging about.
Who is benefitting from this and why is this allowed.
And this callsign they all use " express " whats all that about.

[NaijaNinja]

Sir Balewa, Long time!

Answer to your question is a certain NCAA DG who's also set up his own little outfit beside the International Terminals. Source: Grapevine Media

Express Jet callsign belongs to a gangster in the local sector, its a common callsign, no biggie there.

The biggie is the invasion of 'ethnic minorities' - evidence of what 10% can do!

[18left]

On our part,the lack of professionalism,has caused lack of trust.

How many "express" ask "whats going on" on live atc?

[BLUEJuice]

do you mean "C-Express" the SA chaps?

Im pretty confident that Foreign registered airplanes like ZS, M, VP, N, OE .... these registrations come with foreign banks, foreign licenses, foreign insurance requirements etc which lead to the need for Experienced Type Rated crew who can meet simple insurance minimums. I would imagine young lads anywhere in the world and not just nigeria would have issues getting lucrative contracts and fat pockets.


:cool:

[oompilot]

I have been involved in training many young Nigerian students. The natural ability is low. The willingness to learn - zero. There's more of a "it's your job to make me good, now do it" and to round it off, the Rayban fighter pilot look is the most important thing to most.
So to answer your question as to why you guys aren't being used - incompetence.

[18left]

oompilot;hmmm,i always thought it was students job description to train himself,correct me if am wrong,and pay an instructor money to train himself.

Must be the famous jealous"airline rejected wannabe instructor" situation

You will fly a jet some day,don't take frustration out on your students.

Maybe you should get a pair of raybans,you may be able to see what they see!

As an instructor remember student fails;instructor fails!

[mad_jock]

Some students be from any part of the world just don't get it.

And what ever the instructor does they won't get to a suitable professional level.

If the student won't do the ground school and put effort in there isn't much the instructor can do about it. Learning to fly is hard work and requires commitment.

Instructing is a two way thing. And both parties need to be moving towards the same goal.

And the instructor doesn't fail if a student doesn't come up to scratch. They bank their wages and move on to the next one in the knowledge that someone that couldn't make the grade isn't being let loose in the sky.

[18left]

Couldn't agree more with you mad jock,100% spot on;"Any part of the world"

Am referring to ompilot's reference to a particular part of the world.

[mad_jock]

Unfortunately certain parts of the world seem to produce more students that "don't get it" than others.

I fully appreciate it is the enviroment that they have grown up in. Nothing genetic like some would like to believe.

You may also find that its your own that are not wanting locals. This is quite common in the Middle East as well.

[cavortingcheetah]

Yes indeed, it's not as though one were to say that one got one bunch of students from one country in Africa - or even the whole wide world - down in one other for training and that blinded by the thrills and big lights of sub Saharan Africa's dirtiest city and through absolutely no fault of their own they showed an amazing inability to work towards the task in hand and demanded that four gold bars fly through the air and land magically upon each shoulder like a tame Quaffle and that they became exceedingly upset when failure attended the absence of their efforts which was all the instructor's fault anyway because ... Is it now?
Ngozi Okonjo-Iweala for next president of the World Bank.

[BALEWA]

Lol ....here we go again. Typical Reject Expat comments.
And so off the point.

Hi Ninja ....so who is this local gangsta..Anyone we know !!!

[chuks]

There were more local operators in Lagos than you could shake a stick at. Where did they all go?

Let me guess; the colonial masters did away with them! Yes! They used their usual wicked tricks, wanting loans to be repaid and scheduled maintenance to be done; they were writing performance charts that meant you couldn't fly with a full load off a short runway on a hot afternoon and hope to live; they designed their aircraft to be unable to fly without fuel or to land in zero visibility; Boeing made the 727 unable to be rolled over on its back safely... There is no end to what those poor old local operators and their crews had to endure, until they were mostly gone, out of business after a series of disasters financial and otherwise.

Don't worry, Balewa. Once Nigeria gets independence (from reality) then you are sure to have a career in aviation there. Until then, I am siding with Oompilot's view for the most part, just going from what I have seen, except that I would extend his negative assessment a bit further, to the operators, to the regulators... well, to the whole darn Nigerian scene, in fact! Nigeria is run by fraudsters for fraudsters, when aviation is one thing that you just cannot fool around with in that way and not expect to get your fingers burnt. Getting your performance calculations wrong is not the same as finding out that you just bought a fake phone card.

I lost friends and colleagues there, too many to count, and came up against so many people in aviation who simply came across as 'not having paid much attention in school.' When I would snatch us out of the jaws of disaster then the guilty party would just look at me as if to say, 'You are the Captain.' In the next moment he or she would be bitching about how I was never letting my poor old put-upon FO have the chance to display what must be superior ability. I mean, literally, that I would still be shaking from the last time that I had felt the hot breath of the cat of death on my neck when it was, 'Hey, so what? Okay, I forgot to keep visual on that aircraft we were passing in descent on a visual clearance [a pure suicide attempt], but why are you so picky? C'mon, I want another go.'

The flash was always there in Nigeria, but the substance was often lacking. I remember so many guys who needed those Ray-Bans, not to be blinded by their own bling, while they were usually blind to their own lack of ability, to that need we all have to self-assess and continue to learn. Not always, and it's too true that many ex-pat losers tend to settle there like sludge, but it was a truism that you just never knew what you were going to get with Nigerian aviation; that went right back to the way modern Nigeria has gone steadily downwards ever since 1961.

I ended up in North Africa for a while, after too many years in Nigeria. The desert was a terrible place, but the locals were so much easier to work with that you would not believe that. As in, you give them a job; they do the job. Finish palaver!

I met people from all over Africa there, except for one place everybody seemed to be down on: Nigeria. I would try to tell them that Nigeria wasn't so bad, when they would just look at me as if to say that I must have spent too long out in the sun without my hat on. You tell me why, but people are just down on the place and its people. Other Africans besides those nasty Boers, I mean! That might be why even the Nigerians with the bucks don't want to fly with their own local operators.

[unstable load]

Lol ....here we go again. Typical Reject Expat comments.
And so off the point.BALEWA,
Are you referring to the expats that worked in Nigeria as rejects??
If so, it doesn't say much for your standards there, does it?

What is the point, by the way?
If you are serious about addressing this and not engaging in expat bashing, you need to speak to the NCAA because, after all, they allow it to be thus.

[The Ancient Geek]

If you are serious about addressing this and not engaging in expat bashing, you need to speak to the NCAA because, after all, they allow it to be thus.


He probably does not have enough money to talk to the NCAA.

[ediks]

Why does every thread have to degenerate into a locals vs expat slanging match?
There are good and bad examples of both in Nigeria.
As professionals if that is what we really are then all we can do is try to exhibit the high standards we should all strive for whenever we strap on our airplanes and helicopters with our passengers in the back.
This fighting needs to stop, we are all united in our desire to earn a safe living while we roam the skies as we fly to and from our various destinations.
When you take away skin colour and attitudes, as pilots something drove us to earn our living doing what we do.
People are different, always have been and always will be, whether they are born to the same family, tribe, or country.
We have to be able to get along when we share the same cockpit, it shouldn't be that hard to share a drink after a hard days work and continue to extend that courtesy to one another.
Enough with the bickering, please, it's really sad to read! :sad:

[chuks]

Very funny parody of a racist rant, that one! I was almost fooled, until I checked the date. I just hope everyone else takes that as a joke.

There are plenty of people in Nigeria with ability. After all, there are about 150 million of them there, when they cannot all be losers.

The problem is that, all too often, it is some total muppet whose daddy made off with a lot of money, or whose uncle is in the ministry, who decides that Ray-Ban look is the one to go for. They show up all tricked out with a US FAA licence that isn't worth the paper it's written on, after having wasted everyone's time in some crummy little flight school in East Podunk, Alabama. Then they get a Nigerian ATPL.

Those licences are, legally, just as good as your own. Nobody can tell the diffo between the local who really has his act together and the one who wants to kill you through sheer lack of ability, plus, often, an arrogant refusal to learn. In the same way, you can be looking at a very pretty aircraft, when nobody knows that its engines are timed-out and that its last inspection was just pencil-whipped, if it even was done at all.

A lot of the locals who were good took the chance to go abroad, just another aspect of the Nigerian 'brain drain.' Next time you are flying with Virgin Atlantic, say, try telling one of the flight crew that he's not qualified to 'operate heavy machinery.' Maybe you can get an upgrade to First Class that way!

[unstable load]

Ancient Geek,
He probably does not have enough money to talk to the NCAA.

Therein lies the root of the problem. As long as control is for sale to the highest bidder, things will continue to be a mess.
The issue is not the dodgy people in the business, it is the total lack of application of the Regulations that allows them to be there in he first place and the often complicit support from the authorities that is causing the most damage.

[NaijaNinja]

Before i continue writing, i have to say that i have seen 1/2 disgusting posts since my last post on this thread to earn some people the kind of ban i got last year but eh, different strokes .... remains to be seen what the umpire does to me hereon.

@ oompilot: You are simply a racist with stupid comments about 'natural ability'. My word, no one was ever born to be a pilot, not the Wright brothers, NOT EVEN YOU, you weren't fing born with any natural ability if you've been deluding yourself. You play computer games and that gives you natural ability, pls, pls. Fyi, the most expensive Global Express XRS ever made by Bombardier has been crewed for the last 18-24 months with 3 fing Nigerians with an expat to supplement their additional Challenger 604 which they are equally rated on.

Also, the Nigerian presidential fleet comprises of the most modern jet you will probably dream of flying - 3 of them brand new in the last year, G550 and 2 7X; these and many other machines (12 in total + a new Hawker 4000 en-route) in the fleet are being driven by about 35 black fing Nigerians.

Talking about attitude and willingness to learn is acceptable but don't nationalise it, are you telling me all Boers and your fellows all have natural ability? Please, go drink some SA Miller with Nigerian Palm Wine and speak no more.

The topic certainly didn't warrant your stupid rant about incompetence, what's happening to SAA today? Was it run all these years by Nigerians? I didn't think so; go sleep my friend! Your attitude as an instructor probably stinks, i hope you're no longer an instructor because i won't send my child to your school, my child won't go to SA for training anyway when good old Oxford where her Nigerian father got a good old CAA licence awaits her!

Would you like me to tell you how your fellow 'naturally able' countrymen (engineers) almost ruined a brand new 604 on a routine inspection, it cost that SA company the biggest individual contract they could ever get, i can't stand condescending lots like you.

@cavortingcheetah: i seriously didn't get any of your 'parambulations'!:ugh:

@Balewa: identity isn't wikileaks type of story, its common knowledge na, its all there at GAT.

The other reason i hear why these machines are not crewed by locals is that the businessmen/govt officials/politicians don't want both flight/cabin crew to be privy to their dodgy dealings in-flight, they prefer to 'use' the expats as accessories to their dubious activities. Have you seen these expats 'beg' for money from these dodgy pax, you will see how desperate they can be and why they will only keep mouthing off but they love working in Nigeria, without it, they earn peanuts!

@Captain Magic: You should be banned by the moderator and i wait to see how they react to your barbaric comments in April 2012. Judging by the time since you posted, not much of a reaction from them to be honest. I wonder what ship you got on from because your old titanic-style ship sailed long ago, you seem to have this 'colonial masters' mentality in your previous posts, people like you should be the guinea pigs for Ahmadinejad's latest project! People like you if empowered would rename South Africa 'Whiteland'.

[mad_jock]

Ninja as I said before its they way folk are brought up and what they think is acceptable thats the main cause. Mind you that can apply to alot of things. So there is an element of truth in the posters that say there are issues in general with home grown. There will be a few utter stars who step away from the mold.

In my experence the Nigerians that have been brought up in the UK with parents that are educated can be taught to fly the same as any other kid. Some have it some don't. Although I must admit thier parents almost go to far with them applying extreme pressure to them, and I quote "your not ending up like those other lazy (n word)" which is what one dad said to his son when he failed a exam. He was a British educated Doctor.

I might add he was also the most rasist person I have met in relation to asians and indians etc.

So its horses for courses. SAFA's can be racists pains in the arse I will agree, but not all of them just like not all nigerians are lazy thick fraudsters. I have flown with some very pleasant ones and some utter dickheads.

Spitting Image: I've never met a nice South African - YouTube



:ok: just to piss everyone off.

[dash200]

Common sense dictates that not everyone amongst a sample of any nation can be that bad. oompilot, you're a cheap racist, period. And oh, if you're not white or other colored, you're an idiot.

[NaijaNinja]

Mad Jock, your points are well noted and i have no issues with any race.

As it goes, i have 2 very nice white South African friends. One heads a SA company in Nigeria with a fellow white South African, and my friend can't stand the other guy simply because of his 'colonial mentality', my friend happens to be married to an Indian lady as well. But he believes, this colonial guys are just a little minority of less than 5% who think they are the best thing since slice bread!

Trust me, Nigerians might joke about Indians but i struggle to believe it in the racial sense. I am not arguing for this Doctor man, there are exceptions in any type of case.

Now, do i generalise all South Africans as being racist? That's what some white people can't ever fathom into their atom-sized brain that people are not the same.

I've just noticed CaptainMagic has done a Houdini on this thread!

[dash200]

In fact I detect bitterness in the words of some of them but what's interesting is, they may not even have visited Nigeria, to start with. And it's nice of you to try clear the air, sir

[unstable load]

You are correct in saying there is bitterness in some of the posters here.

A lot of the Nigerians are bitter that jobs that should be indigenous are being given to expats, but they also fail to address the actual reason it is happening.
Blaming the expats is easy, because they are an easily identifiable target.

The expats are bent out of shape because by and large, they are treated with disdain by the Nigerians who resent their presence doing "their jobs and chopping their money".

What is the real problem here??

Whatever you choose to answer, the expats are the perceived problem in most cases, not the root of the problem.
The actual issues are almost taboo to discuss, because of the high emotional quotient they generate, but sooner or later, they will need to be addressed.

[NaijaNinja]

Hi unstable load,

I think you are incorrect in saying its a no-no to discuss the issues in Nigeria or the issues raised by the convener of this thread. This is because i have already written in this thread about what i know as part of the underlying problems and the 10% magic is nothing new worldwide, however its being disguised.

The main issue is the non-conformance to regulations/laws, its not the stupid rhetoric that some white idiots have been posting on this thread.

Having read the story below (see link), would i now classify all white British people as scammers or fraudsters? := But hey, if it were a Nigerian, it would be bigger news than Bin Laden's death!

Ian & Ofir jolly cocked up the scam:D
Britons arrested on Nigerian visa fraud charge (http://www.visabureau.com/worldwide/news/02-04-2012/britons-arrested-on-nigerian-visa-fraud-charge.aspx)

[ediks]

To dash 200, Thank you Kind Sir.
If everyone was as reasonable and gracious as you the world would indeed be a better place.
Unstable Load, contrary to what you think, there are very many Nigerians I know who are only interested in working to earn an honest living.
Not everyone wants to "chop money". I certainly don't resent expatriate pilots in Nigeria, on the contrary I welcome them and would try to show them that even though there ARE problems in the country, there are many nice and wonderful people within and a few nice places to go to visit and unwind after work. :ok:
I flew for a very multi-cultural company, we had very many expatriates and I would happily share a cockpit with almost all of them again given a chance to.

[odericko2000]

mad jock that was real funny, it's cracked me up so hard, guests in this hotel must think there is a nutcase in room 3427, that was a good comic relief on such a highly emotionally charged thread.:}:D

Guyz relax, take a deep breath and be level headed about your contributions on the thread;)

[unstable load]

ediks,
I never once implied that there weren't lots of Nigerians willing to put in a good day's honest work.
The rest of your post is a welcome change from some of the comments that have been made on this forum over the years.:ok:

[mad_jock]

I have actually found most SA folk haven't heard of Tom Sharpe books. And they have all loved them.

He has a set of characters in three books based on the South african police force

Konstabel Els, Lieutenant Verkramp and Kommandant Van Heerden.

Being a well balanced chap he also wrote a series of books taking the piss out of the English lifestyle with Wilt and Poterhouse Blue etc.

Well worth getting them on a kindle if you like a good chuckle down route.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Tom-Sharpe/e/B000AP5ID4/ref=ntt_athr_dp_pel_1

[cavortingcheetah]

In another life, I taught at a school in Mexico. There were many American teenage children at the school. These American children were the sons and daughters of American diplomats and American ex pat millionaires, oxymoronic as that might be. They were a really delightful lot of Americans but all were spoilt,inherently lazy, and inattentive being much given to the Mexican habit of tomorrow is another day. Inevitably I failed the entire class on a Shakespeare project which I had given them and for which they had all had plenty of time to prepare.
He who would call me a racist for relating that true story must surely be a bigot and one furthermore much addicted to playing fast card games under the bed clothes with a flashlight.

[ediks]

Unstable Load, I do apologise.
I misread this comment "The expats are bent out of shape because by and large, they are treated with disdain by the Nigerians who resent their presence doing "their jobs and chopping their money".
I thought you meant to infer that Nigerian pilots resented the expatriate pilots because we wanted to chop the money instead. :)
Happy flying!!

[unstable load]

mad_jock,
Love the work of Tom Sharpe, if ever an author lived up to his name it's him. Razor sharp and very few punches pulled.:D
ediks,
Think nothing of it, sir!:ok:

[chuks]

Got thrown out of South Africa for sedition, I believe, Tom Sharpe. Something he said or did must have upset the blue-noses there. That set him on the road to fame and fortune, making fun of people for serious money. I can only hope to do something similar.

[cavortingcheetah]

The Dutch Reformed Church took serious exception to Constable Els's aged mistress injecting his penis with novocaine in order to delay orgasm. A similar result can be achieved with a little cocaine powder applied in the appropriate place. This is all becoming slightly digressive as the mistress in question wasn't even a Nigerian.

[mad_jock]

And they didn't have an issue with wiring all the Constables bollocks up to the mains and then applying an electric shock when a picture of a black woman was shown to them in the nude to try and stop them raping the locals? With the unfortunate fall out that it turned them all gay so started raping the black blokes.

I am sitting in tears of laughter and have just followed my own link to get the books to read again.

Els's fight with a guard dog !! my sides are starting to hurt now.

[fly5N]

Balewa,

I am a local flying corporate in Nigeria.Read your post and want to clarify some issues you raised.
Yes there is an increase in the number of private jets in Nigeria but most of these jets are here on ACMI and most of the operators signed a 6 months or one year lease contract for the machines.So the issue of employing locals does not arise IMHO.
There are about 5 major charter operators in Abuja and Lagos Triton/Hanger8,Izzyair,Prime Air,King air ,,vista jet,ACE.About three of the operators I listed don't have an AOC yet but are in the last stage of securing one.Those without AOPs normally use their registeration as call sign.
Express and C-express are two different entities.And both are used differently but most people think it is the same operator.
Some of the jets are here for short term contracts and I know a company in Abuja that leased 2 jets on ACMI for a year for their company ops.
Thanks

[Capt. Manuvar]

I dont know why the usual suspects always come and derail Nigerian threads with their usual drivel:mad::mad::=:ugh::*.

Aero
Possible imminent mgmt take over by AMCON due to their massive debt. Rumor has it the fixed wing section may be closed down and merged with Arik. They currently seem to have trouble keeping the B737s in the air due maintenance. The rotary side is a shadow of its former self thanks to Caverton, etc.
Lost most of their first officers to Arik, the working environment there's "old school" and doesnt seem to be condusive for young people.
The Dash8 operation is down to maybe 1 machine, following the loss of contracts and a whole lot of crew to Top Brass

Allied Air
Still dragging the raggedy 727s through the skies on their DHL contracts. They wet lease MD11s from Avient for the heavy stuff.

Air Nigeria
They have been permanently advertising for crew for ages. The current ownership does not offer any comfort, no1 knows whether they r heading up or down. Lost lots and lotsa crew to Arik.

Air Taraba
Startup Operator currently has 1 EMB-145 sitting on the corporate ramp in abuja for proposed operation and are expecting another. The state governor who is a licensed pilot regualry flies himself in and out of jalingo airport even though I dont know if the airport has been certified for commercial ops.

Arik
Another carrier heavily indebted to AMCON. Rumors of a possible management shakeup. Maybe the waddling elephant may finally be tranformed into a prancing stallion. ABV-LHR canacelled due to the slot issue. A345s are to come on the 5N registered mid this year, crew recruitment in progress. There are plans for A330s but in their current state I doubt their gonna be getting any airframes anytime soon.

Associated
Still flying the EMB120s on some light routes. No sign of growth.

Caverton
Seems to have miraculously rising to the top of the food chain in the rotary world, thanks to some godfatherism. They also operate DHC6 on a corporate shuttle service for LNG between LOS and Bonny Island. They are expecting the -400s soon.

Chanchangi
"Chanch and the gang" hanging in there. Sustaining their operation with B737CL wet leased from Jordan Aviation.

DANA Air
MD83 operator. Passenger loads seem to be ok. Airplanes are gas guzzlers so i dont know how that translates on the financnial side of thing when they r competing with the likes of arik with fuel efficient machines. The seem to have lost a lot of crew too. Chief Pilot reportedly resigned/booted out/dunno:confused:. Anyway the position is up for grabs on major recruitment websites.

Dominion Air
Newly floated by a famous pastor. he has a CL604 which he has used for persnal use for some time. Acquired 1 B1900D from Wings Aviation. Proposed charter/scheduled operator? who knows?

FirstNation
They've never gotten to flying all 3 A320s at the same time. Recently commence operations into PHC. They have crewing issues mostly due to their policy of not type rating pilots. I wonder where they'll get crews with the kinda salaries been paid to A320 drivers in other parts of the world.

IRS
F100 operator. Struggling to pay salaries. Might get B737s in the near future.

Top Brass
A new entrant that was able to snatch lucrative oil contracts from Aero. Currently operting 2 ex Heli Malongo (Angola) DHC8-300s. Poached most of their crew from Aero and arik. They initially started with a not so sucessful foray into the executive charter market.

Wings Aviation
Operator 1 X B732 for cargo ops. seem to have sold their remaing B1900D to Dominion Air.

Corporate world
Generally most of the corporate ops dont seem to be kosher. lots of commercial ops on private certificates, no AOCs. NCAA looks the other way, it seems. VistaJet and Hangar8 seem to have substantial ops out of LOS and ABV. Most of the privately owned ops are on the foreign register (VP, VQ, M, and the infamous ZS).
The Barbados group operates out of Kaduna. I dont understand if they are a licensed AOC holder, charter operator or what. They are the agent for embraer in Nigeria. They operate at least 2 Legacies, 1 HS125 and 1 Lr45. The owner seems to be winning all avaition awards in nigeria. But that means nothing since most of those on trial/in jail in nigeria were award winners in their various fields.
There another Learjet operator out of abuja using German registered LR40/45/60s. I also dont know if they have an AOC.
Some hangars have sprung up in LOS. Caverton, Evergreen Apple (owned by the NCAA DG), Dominion Air and 1 other. I believe the concept is to have fully fledged FBOs but as with most things Naija i dont think they realised the technical capabilities required. so they are no more than glorfied parking stands.

That"s all I got for now.

[dash200]

There's a picture of them at airliners.net: a Lear 45 at rest at Asaba airport. They're called Prime Air Service. German rego, European crew. Now, would any EU nation easily allow foreign registered aircraft and crews to operate in their skies indefinitely, as the idiots running our show are doing presently?

[mad_jock]

There are tons of N regs perm based in Europe. Some off them have never been on US soil.

And then we now have the M reg as well.

[fly5N]

Capt M,

The learjets are operated by prime air,they have an AOC.

[ediks]

Capt. Manuvar, very informative, Thank You :ok:
Just one small point, Caverton seem to be doing well and I hope they continue to do so but I suspect that Bristow is still the number 1 player in the helicopter world in Naija.

[oompilot]

Amazing. Not a word about skin colour or race in my post, yet in two separate postings I am accused of being racist. Ironically I referred to the group as Nigerians and some people saw that as an attack on black people. Perhaps the moderators can assign a digital badge for dimwits so we can identify them in future.

[glideslopealive]

aero never ceases to amaz me. Aircrew relationship there is strictly hierachial. capts are like Gods that must be worshipped by Fos and cabin crew. There exists always a steep cockpit gradient to the extent that flight safety have been compromised because the FOs has been cowed and are to scared to offer a word or let alone take any corrective action.

[NaijaNinja]

All it takes is for these Tin Gods to be put in their place, most of them are actually ****e. The issue with aero is that its become a training ground for the almighty emirates of Africa, so there's a large influx of fresh new guys who would do anything just to get the hours. This has re-booted the ego of these smelly Tin Gods, its quite disgusting in 2012.

Unless such timid, non-confident FOs become brave and speak out especially if they know their stuff, they may never get on the glideslope let alone touch down!

[cavortingcheetah]

oompilot
When it comes to matters of camouflage I prefer to skulk around the oceans of the world dressed in battleship grey. However on this occasion I threw my hat into your ring, hence my post about my past life as an inquisitor general teaching snotty little snooty kids in Cuernavaca, Mexico. Cuernavaca can be translated as the horns of the cow which is exactly what you find up the jolly old fundament, Edward II like, if you so much as pop your head above the parapet on matters concerning ink blot tests. With apologies to Freud and Jung of course and a doff of the hat to Erich Fromm, I shall now return to hunting the ghost of Eric Langsdorf in Montevideo in which efforts I derive considerable solace from Los Indios.

[NaijaNinja]

What's with the gibberish?

[cavortingcheetah]

It's not gibberish and it doesn't require any particular understanding of the deranged workings of the poster's intellect to understand it. What it does require though, to unravel it all, is a certain sense of mental flexibility and educative reasoning capability. You see, it's rather more an example of black humour, the term as used in the theatrical sense and not in any racial context of course, combined with references to English, German and Uruguayan history, Mexican geography and Spanish with an example or two of basic psychological dogmatism thrown in to muddy the waters for all but the most informed and deductively competent.
Here's a clue or two to aid as a navigational beacon . Edward II was a king of England who is widely believed to have been murdered at Berkeley Castle in 1327 on the orders of his wife's lover Roger Mortimer. The manner of his death was not pleasant by all accounts. Fifteen men held him down under heavy cushions while a hunting horn was inserted deep into his anus. Into that horn was thrust a long piece of red hot metal which was twisted and turned around his bowels until he died in screaming agony. No mark was ever found on his body to suggest foul play. Hence of course the reference to Cuernavaca and horns. But then you'd need a basic knowledge of Spanish to translate the name of that charming, but now drug ridden, town in Mexico.
Who was Eric Langsdorf you might ask? He was the captain of the German pocket battleship Graf Spee, involved in a little sea action, 1939, with HMS Exeter, Ajax and Achilles(New Zealand) with HMS Cumberland coming up from Las Malvinas. Some of us are interested in raising the spirits of the dead from time to time in the interests of cultural and historical verisimilitude and in keeping imaginations somewhat on the spectromatic dark side.
That last sentence might be construed as approaching the boundaries of gibberish if one didn't think about it very contextually carefully.

[glideslopealive]

Cheetah, this forum and indeed thread is not about grammer, literature or history. You know better

[cavortingcheetah]

Of course I do but, having been accused of gibbering, I thought I was entitled to a defence? There seem to be plenty around happy enough to make accusations.

[NaijaNinja]

If it ain't gibberish, then you've been dialling the wrong number matey, put the goggles on to see clearly that this ain't a literature, language, history or cultural forum.


If you wish to keep teaching, go back to the classroom!


PS: Thanks for making us all more knowledgeable on what 'black humour' means, i am certainly extremely grateful for people like you who like to share knowledge. Am sure the whole world has learnt a new phrase from the meister.

[cavortingcheetah]

The situation in Nigeria in terms of geographic politics with quite a bit of radical Islam thrown into the pot is quite interesting at the moment. The Sahel is a nice little time bomb waiting its turn to explode. Whether any of these complex issues have anything to do with the original question 'what's going on in Nigeria' is something best left to your own research but for those intelligently interested in what really is going on, there was a most interesting full page article in last Saturday's British Financial Times. I'll refrain from presenting a thumbnail sketch lest it cause confusion or sow dissension in any understanding, conjectural or otherwise, of the big picture and how internal politics and current affairs might conceivably relate to local aviation in Nigeria.

[ediks]

You'd have thought they'd know what airplanes they'll be using as flights are said to be starting next month.
Apparently either Airbus 343's..........GATWICK ROUNDUP 16-04-12 - UK & N.Ireland - Aircraft Movements and Sightings - Aviation Forums - Flightglobal Airspace (http://www.flightglobal.com/airspace/forums/gatwick-roundup-16-04-12-84073.aspx)
From today's Gatwick Roundup on Flightglobal: Air Nigeria. UK Airport News provides us with a bit of an update on this carrier's proposed route from Lagos to Gatwick. A spokesman has confirmed that daily flights will start next month with three A343s that "will soon be acquired"

Or Airbus 332's..........Air Nigeria returns to London Gatwick and Johannesburg « Aviation in Nigeria (http://nigerianaviation.wordpress.com/2012/04/14/air-nigeria-returns-to-london-gatwick-and-johannesburg/)

Good luck to them though whichever they end up getting.

[unstable load]

Well, let's hope they manage to keep to their scheduled times a bit more accurately than they do back in Naija...:\
I thought Okada and Changchangi were random back in the '90's, but they have elevated tardiness to new heights.

[enijose1]

Naija Ninja, who are you. You are so on Point! I like your swagg. You are truly a Ninja!

[Ghost Vector]

Last I knew Nigeria, 20 years ago, it was a MESS. From those of you that know and love it now; Has Nigeria improved any?

[NaijaNinja]

@ enijose1: who am i? I am just your regular joe bloggs who irks at the sight of some 'know-it-all-but-worth-sh*t' white folks who open their gob to chat sh*t!

I have no issues with some but most are just castoffs who mouth off with so much ease. e.g., i don't know the definition of a 'mess' but hey English isn't my first language. Gbam, o boy!

i tire o for these oyinbos.

[chuks]

Plenty oyingbo don' tire of you! Always yabbing the white colonialist master for coming and taking your jobs. As if!

I just met a guy from Sierra Leone out at the airport. We got to talking, the usual stuff, 'Don't get any polish on the laces,' that sort of thing (some of my customers are sooo fussy!), and then I asked him if he'd ever been to Guess Where. His eyes kind of widened and he acted like that was a pretty strange question. 'Ghana, yes, but Nigeria... umm, not really, no...'

Do you guys still have a tourism bureau, all those faded-out pictures of 'A troupe of traditional dancers,' or of that festival where everybody goes in the water and eats a live goldfish or something? Maybe new posters would help.

[Habari]

I wonder would NaijaNinja be upset if anybody was to refer to black people as "black ****". How can the moderators let this guy get away with his obvious racist comments.

[4HolerPoler]

NaijaNinja's post from yesterday.

@ enijose1: who am i? I am just your regular joe bloggs who irks at the sight of some 'know-it-all-but-worth-sh*t' white folks who open their gob to chat sh*t!

I have no issues with some but most are just castoffs who mouth off with so much ease. e.g., i don't know the definition of a 'mess' but hey English isn't my first language. Gbam, o boy!

i tire o for these oyinbos.

I'm going to leave his post as testament that racism is alive and well in our industry. Previously a member of good standing, he has been given 24 hours to retract his statement and provide an apology or he will find his access to this site restricted.

4HP

[oompilot]

My goodness me. The open hatred from some black folk toward white is very troubling.

Back to the thread. Nigerians seems to be a very intolerant society. There's fighting between Muslim and Christians, distaste for foreigners of any nationality and success in the oil industry is seen as greed and attacked by the lazy gun wielding degenerates. Now, the pilots are adopting the same attitude, "Give me the job because I was born here".
Aviation is global. There are Nigerians flying in someone else country to. Why not do what all the pilots in the world do? They learn their trade, become competent and successfully displace someone else from that position.

[exeng]

I have no issues with some but most are just castoffs who mouth off with so much ease

The irony of this statement would be amusing were it not for the racist undertones of the post.

Sad, because I have enjoyed reading some of his/her previous posts.

[4HolerPoler]

Member has responded with his contention that the use of the word 'white' does not constitute a racist intent and as such an apology will not be forthcoming.

I'm going to leave to the matter as unresolved; this is your forum, you be the judge.

Allow me to close by quoting Martin Luther King Jr -

I look to a day when people will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character.

Nuff said; carry on please.

[NaijaNinja]

@ chuks: its fair enough for the Sierra Leonian to react like that to the name of Nigeria, its his choice. I wonder if he was around when his countrymen and women ran to Nigeria for protection when his precious country was torn apart by war.

If true, how ungrateful of him to react like that when many Nigerian soldiers died to keep Sierra Leone alive under the ECOMOG banner.

And tell him to go find out about the boy band known as X-project - a band of Sierra Leonians who moved to Nigeria during the war for refuge, grew up to know Nigeria as their home and sing songs about Nigeria and Sierra Leone. Talk about gratitude.

And if Oyinbos are tired of Nigeria they should do what they like, its a free world. I just choose to do what makes me happy, not tired.

[NaijaNinja]

Hello Moderator, Habari, oompilot, exeng,

Below is my response to the private request from the Moderator to explain my post which raised some requests for me to be 'shot down'.

=========================================
Hello Moderator,

I am really grateful for your intervention. It seems we've always had preferential treatment handed to certain posts which goes through without scrutiny.

I am no racist by any standards, i have been married to a non-black woman from the Asian continent for over 20 years.

I disagree that my post is racial simply because i used the singular word 'white'. Indeed, worse have been posted on this thread without the use of colour to expose what lies beneath.

The last time i filled an application form, the ethnic minority monitoring section listed white as a race just as it did black. Now, typing the word white is deemed racist on PPRuNe but i don't think typing black seems racist rather using a word like 'nigg*' seems racist.

If the word 'white' offends or triggers excitement amongst some who wish to extinguish the truth that i try to speak for, then i apologise. I do not apologise because of the threat of being expunged from PPRuNe because life continues.

I hope the moderator's intervention becomes a standard move across the board because, this is just like watching a football match where the ref is being partisan. Reminds me of Ovrebo.

[NaijaNinja]

Moderator,

My private response to you which i have just posted does show that i apologised as opposed to your conclusion that no apology is forthcoming. Excerpt below:

If the word 'white' offends or triggers excitement amongst some who wish to extinguish the truth that i try to speak for, then i apologise.

I totally applaud your use of MLK's words, it would be nice to see that everyone on this forum goes along with it. Remains to be seen!

[exeng]

It was the context in which the word 'white' was used rather than the word itself.

most are just castoffs who mouth off

If I described 'black' folk in such a way then I would expect people to be somewhat upset.

The fact is that some black and some white people would appear to be castoffs who mouth off on occasion.

Generalisations such as above in your post are, in my opinion, not a very good idea.

[oompilot]

"That uneducated black fool needs to be hung" is an example of a statement that would also be deemed racist, it's not the word black but the context in which it's used. Perhaps if you , as you your self said, understood the English language better then you would have understood your utterances you made NaijaNinja.

[glideslopealive]

Enough of the rantings, the msg from both sides is clear. Back to business. Their appears to be no reprieve for nigerian airlines and operators. High cost of jet fuel, high cost of inefficient services from service providers, high forex rate, unpaid staff salaries, security challenges and uncertainties in the economy and polity have brought most operators to their knees. I learnt that caverton plans to bring in some more choppers and Q400 to support their expanding ops. Aero planning to bring in 5 more B734 from indonesia at a higher cost than offered from Europe. Capt Meg's wings aviation is planning to start airline operations with F100s or B733s. How is IRS doing? Do they intend to expand or have proved bookmakers wrong by getting this far? Will chanchangi ressurect or is this a terminal illness. Associated is on a death grip as fleet serviceability has been seriously depleted. I had the opportunity of meeting the MD recently, she is such a wonderful hardworking lady but unfortunately she is sorrounded by a corrupt and greedy management team. On another note, is Julius Berger still having the unofficial policy of 'no Nigeria pilot allowed command on their king air 350s?

[odericko2000]

I know we are eager to get on with discussing what's up in Nigeria, but before we do i must express my support for Naija Ninja, alot of bias the way posts are handled by the moderators, if you are an ardent PPRUNE reader then you know for a fact there are quite a no. of threads with racial undertones from our fairer brothers and sisters, alot of sensationalised unresearched posting in a bid to portray a certain people as inept, and others as superior. i have come across a post insinuating the whole black race is barbaric, some go the extra mile of posting propagandist videos yet there is no reprimand from the mods. :ugh:
But i guess we are guests here so we have to contend, "sometimes not always" with some offensive idiotic comments.

Its always pretty obvious for example when an accident or incident is being discussed in this forum to predict the kind of postings you would expect, if its Asian, African ,South American carrier the finger pointing starts even before the facts start rolling out, on the other hand a western carrier you always expect some interesting sober and well researched debates, well just my opinion.

All in all we hope that the MLK quote isn't just that, but maybe a start of some fair play here on

[oompilot]

Amazing. A thread started by a black Nigerian complaining about expats in his country who then openly vents his anger at white people, becomes a thread about white people being the racists. What a bunch of idiots. Don't be so blind, look at yourselves.

[cavortingcheetah]

Martin Luther King said,
'I look to a day when people will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character.'
Another man says,
'I am no racist by any standards, I have been married to a non-black woman from the Asian continent for over 20 years.'
Can one perceive a certain racist irony in there, depending of course, on how one chooses to interpret what is obviously an innocent if potentially subversive statement?

As for offensive and idiotic comments with which we have to contend, one takes no umbrage at the possibility that one might have been being described as a 'know-it-all-but-worth-sh*t' white folks who open their gob to chat sh*t!'
One should rather compliment the writer, who admits that English is not his mother tongue, upon his knowledge of the British common vernacular.
It means nothing to be described as a piece of worthless excrement who spews forth manure when the comment is simply untrue bigotry.
Now, back to Naija land perhaps, to distinguish it from Nigeria?

[SalesConsult]

oompilot
Tone it down. You need not emphasis "black" Nigerian after mod had tried to calm the situation. This simply causes distraction from what are real issues.

Will aviation situation get better in Nigeria? You bet! Will it be soon? Not at all! Whether we like it or not there are those milking it either they are called VS or BA and that is one of the many unfair things that Nigerians must wake up to.

[cavortingcheetah]

VS and BA are unfairly milking Nigerians? Is that a scam?

[oompilot]

SalesConsult

NaijaNinja wrote Now, typing the word white is deemed racist on PPRuNe but i don't think typing black seems racist rather using a word like 'nigg*' seems racist.
As I explained above double standards. He writes the word black and it's fine, I mention it and it's a problem. Why?

I wrote then openly vents his anger at white people, becomes a thread about white people being the racists
This you didn't mention as provocative yet I mentioned "white".

Lets remember this debate was started by a black Nigerian openly admitting his distaste for expats and white people, not the other way around. Is this the reason there is an interest in ending the race debate in a hurry?

[odericko2000]

@ Carvotingcheetah,
Sorry mate but that's not what i meant, i am actually against the stereotyping of a whole populace or a group of people because one or two of them has rubbed you the wrong way, it is probably in order for the mods to have flagged that particular offensive post, it has obviously offended many here, but as naija ninja says there are also alot of stereotyped posts on this forum that offend alot of us darkies but which the mods see no need to act on, that's the bit that is unbalanced.

[chuks]

It's easy to understand the anger and frustration that many Nigerians must feel. I don't think it's a very good idea to vent that on expatriate pilots working in Nigeria, however. We are all caught up in the system, white and black alike. Many whites have as little wish to be in Nigeria as the locals have to see them there! That said, I try to understand both sides, since Nigeria taught me a lot about what it means to be a human, particularly the many Nigerians there who were still able to be very kind while caught up in a very difficult situation, better people than I am, perhaps.

I think that we humans are basically trained towards racism; we may be hard-wired to see our differences rather than our similarities. If that premise of mine is correct, then we are always working to look beneath the skin to see how similar we may be; that doesn't come easily.

That is all very well, but sometimes all this Mother Teresa stuff gets a bit old, when we may enjoy a good old rant against 'the other,' as when your Nigerian steward chooses to scrub your only silk tie in boiling-hot water, give it a vigorous wringing-out and then proudly present you with what looks for all the world like a very large shoelace! If the 'n-word' is not on the tip of your tongue then you must be some sort of saint!

[4HolerPoler]

odericko2000 - as much as it may sound cool to you it is not accepatble, regardless of your skintone, to be using the term 'darkies' - that is just plain offensive.

Now, let me be clear; another reference to skin color on this thread wins you a week in the cooler.

4HP

[NaijaNinja]

Hi odericko2000,

I have no clue as to your ethnicity but i am grateful for your understanding and support, fairness like common sense isn't always common.

Piece of advice though, stay away from that cooler, being there before: -55 degrees! Chai

And trust me, those boilers will be waiting for you once released from the cooler!:ugh:

[odericko2000]

@ oompilot, i think you need to re read the first posting on this thread, at no point did the poster say he has a disdain for whites, just expats, and i will say it again on this forum, why do people always assume all expats are of the said skin tone, be as it may they form the bulk of the expat pilot community but i have a good no. of my mates from Tanzania flying ATR's in Nigeria as expat pilots.

Again, stereotyping.

Sorry mods, had to mention skin color on that one, guess will be getting my three weeks in the cooler then.

Ps: I apologise for being offensive on my previous post

[oompilot]

Ok Odericko2000, so after 4 pages of debate on pprune this was all a big misunderstanding. Balewa and his mates are actually upset with the Tanzanians and other "African country expats" flying in Nigeria. Perhaps the reaction that it was aimed only at the European expats was a knee jerk reaction. NaijaNinja's comments 'know-it-all-but-worth-sh*t' white folks also seemed to suggest that the attack was more at the European folk. So that's great news. Not many knew he meant the minority expats where the problem.

[enijose1]

This whole debate is one sided. Obviously we can all see whose side the moderator is on. For your info oompilot, most of us expats are from the Carribean, African American ,and other African countries. If you read the first thread, there was no anger vented at anyone in particular but the fact that Nigerian locals are not getting jobs because the whole place is flooded with expats( no skin color mentioned). The whole idea of forum is to discuss what is going on and what can be done to save or improve the situation not a wrestling ring for chickens who can't take the fight outside. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. You are allowed to correct an assumption with a fact. Some of us are just here waiting to pounce on any tone or incorrect grammer that offends us and start a fight. No need for the insults on each other. If you want to fight, take it outside!

[enijose1]

If anyone should apologize, it should be me. I apologize for all those that were offended by Ninja's statement. My bad! I asked the question, who he is. Just like some others have agreed, his posts were interesting and likeable. Moderator, I apologize on his behalf. May we all go back to being happy friendly folks. We share the same sky.

[chuks]

I had an interesting conversation with a young American from LA, a mixed-race person who self-identifies as 'black' and likes to talk the talk about Mother Africa, slavery and the white colonial masters. I told him he really needs to go to Guess Where and be told how he's just a 'yellow man,' first argument he gets into, to learn something he doesn't know about racism. (Here in the States, a black person cannot be a racist; it's impossible. Just look at what Marion Barry is getting away with now. Well, he got away with doing cocaine, so...)

My little friend throws the 'n-word' around as if it's no big thing, and he told me that I should start using it too. I tried to make him understand that it's a racist term that a white really couldn't use. That he can get away with that... that's really a form of reverse racism: one set of rules for him, another set for me, but that is just life.

I think the Mods are on the side of the thread, really.

[Shrike200]

Can I mention refugee's now?

(Obscure reference to a recent event in South African politics :E )

[Fuzzy Lager]

I agree lets leave Nigeria to the Nigerians. Lets send all the Nigerian's working elsewhere in the world back to the motherland. We can even free the tens of thousands that are locked up in foreign jails for 419 scams, drug dealing, rape, murder etc and send them home too.

Its a hateful, morally baron, smelly disgusting place. Let them have it to themselves.

[18left]

Fuzzy bear,can we keep the smelly oil too?

[Fuzzy Lager]

For sure, and we'll be keeping our foreign currency.

Anyway, oil will be running out soon.

[cavortingcheetah]

If the jails, welfare and benefits offices of the world were deprived of those citizens of the country to which this now overtly political thread obviously refers, you could probably knock at least 10% off the basic rate of income tax everywhere.
The Saudis, who are no friends of sub Saharan Africa, would quite happily make up any gas oil shortage caused by a shortfall from the place in question.
Manufacturers of sea mines could be encouraged to tender for a large marine encirclement program to say nothing of the commensurate need for increased land mine production. Sea mines could be disguised as fish, not that there's much left of the place's fishing industry.
Productivity and financial success all around with a big boost for the British explosives industry all accompanied by the death of the 419? That'll help Osborne's next effort to surreptitiously bail out the EU. Nick Clegg could pose as a pragmatist. It's to be commended to the Liberal Democrats as a platform of popular domestic policy with significant foreign gains?

[chuks]

This reads as if a certain someone went to work for Barnax Airlines, Port Harcourt, Nigeria. I seem to remember being told, 'If we don't get paid, we stop working! What are they going to do, throw us in jail?'

'Err, guys...' I said, 'You might want to think that one over.' Did they listen to me? I guess not, because, when I came back from leave, all anyone could talk about was how 'They threw the Barnax expats in jail!' Just for a little while, but still....

[NaijaNinja]

Errm cavortingcheetah, kindly in your wisdom provide answers to the following intriguing questions:

1. In what part of the world would you find old men sleeping with young kids?

2. In what part of the world do men sleep with men and women sleep with women?

3. In what part of the world would you find men building an underground haven in their residential property with the consent of their sick wives to rape kidnapped teenagers and raise the kids resulting out of their sad actions in the same property only for the story to become sensational on Fox, CNN, SKy, BBC?

4. In what part of the world would you find western senators/politicians' sleaze stories on bungs, conniving with Nigerian companies/government to steal money from Nigeria?

5. In what part of the world would you find sick merchants of money who devise ways of creating wars just to steal the wealth of a nation in the name of fighting tyranny?

I reckon you come from that part of the world and i would rather be in a jail than be proud of coming from that world of yours.

You disgust me with your notion that Nigerians make up the jails and benefit claimants of the western nations, i refer to part of my previous post on this thread: Having read the story below (see link), would i now classify all white British people as scammers or fraudsters? := But hey, if it were a Nigerian, it would be bigger news than Bin Laden's death!

Ian & Ofir jolly cocked up the scam:D
Britons arrested on Nigerian visa fraud charge (http://www.visabureau.com/worldwide/news/02-04-2012/britons-arrested-on-nigerian-visa-fraud-charge.aspx)

Learn to accept that you are a 'know-it-all-but-worth-sh*t' fellow!

[NaijaNinja]

Fuzzy Lager, kindly provide answers to the questions in my previous post.

Am sure you should be able to help me with info from your neck of the wood.

[NaijaNinja]

I think you have a lot of mud over your face Sir Chuks who seems to know Nigeria inside out. How convenient that you selectively have no answer to Question 3? Don't forget there are other threads on this forum.

The questions reflect what is second nature in a part of the world dominated by a certain race we aren't allowed to mention :ugh:, whether you admit it or keep making up different stories about Nigeria to convey warped memories of your donkey years in Nigeria is totally your decision.

No one (not me if you go back to my first post in this thread) has painted Nigeria as a country full of saints but please don't come here with your fellows talking sh*t as if you come from an angelic place. You chat sh*t to someone, expect them to throw it back at you because what goes around comes around old geezer.

Stop spreading your selective & convenient we-know-it-all & we-are-the-best-thing-since-sliced-sh*t-filled-bread crap; it doesn't work anymore, at least not since i was born :=

Go sit on a rocker old man and think of new stories.

[NaijaNinja]

FYI Chuks,

1. Two American contractors arrived on an NNPC waste management contract but set-up a shop in the capital Abuja as gasoline importers and collected 1.9 billion naira ($12 million) in subsidy, without delivering a drop of fuel.

2. Amongst the companies the house says owe money to the government was a local unit of ExxonMobil.

Source: Nigeria parliament urges fuel subsidy graft arrests - Yahoo! News UK (http://uk.news.yahoo.com/nigeria-parliament-urges-fuel-subsidy-graft-arrests-165038856.html)

Am sure the American contractors were dragged into this using a long tug with a gun to their head by the gangster Nigerians, gbam!

[exeng]

Please just stop it all of you.

Like a bunch of schoolchidren in my opinion.

[NaijaNinja]

Exeng, I concur and i agree to go back to the aviation-themed issues raised on this thread. One thing for sure is that if the recent past continues, it can only get worse because one party will not lie down and accept the abuse from the 'technocrats'.

I have moved on and wish to know when Nigerian consumers will start to pay decent fares on the international routes out of Nigeria. All the airlines (both local and foreign) are milking the travelling public. I hear the growing trend is the rise in connecting to Europe through Accra - apparently a cheaper alternative to going directly out of Lagos/Abuja.

Any thoughts, inside info?

[bluehawaii]

These situation will change soon. It is been monitored at the Executive branch of the government, through some influencial professionals.

[Gidigba]

:{Nothing will change its a huge scam,Lets all watch and see

[flareout BC]

When a man has hit rock bottom, the only way to look is up. Our national ethos is confused: we sincerely seek greatness, but at the same time, most of us sabotage the rules of nation building all the time. A recipe for inertia and loss on a grand scale. Nevertheless, latent in us is the ability to rebound from beatings and defeat of any sort. It's a pity for those who don't know this. And so, Gidigba, true son of 9ja, this will play out well (the avenues and timing might surprise us) but rest assured, we'll win this one.

[NaijaNinja]

gbam! well said flareout, no harm done being hopeful, me thinks.

[5N-OSA]

Any info on any new startup Named "Eagle Air". Seems to based out of Abuja or Minna. any info would be appreciated.

[FLYDHC8]

Seems its a flight Training Centre

EagleAirNigeria - EagleAir Flight Training Centre (http://www.eagleairnigeria.com/)

[5N-OSA]

Yeah, I saw that as well, I don't know if they have all the required clearances like FTO, AOC etc from NCAA.

[LOS]

Air Nigeria orders four B787-8s « Aviation in Nigeria (http://nigerianaviation.wordpress.com/2012/05/13/air-nigeria-orders-four-b787-8s/)

[Scrappy]

"There's a picture of them at airliners.net: a Lear 45 at rest at Asaba airport. They're called Prime Air Service. German rego, European crew. Now, would any EU nation easily allow foreign registered aircraft and crews to operate in their skies indefinitely, as the idiots running our show are doing presently?"

I find it laughable that people make such remarks without doing their research, did you know that prime air is a Nigerian owned company? Run by Nigerians? Employing European pilots because no locals can meet insurance mins? The red tape that Nigeria places on 5N registered aircraft is such that it is easier and cheaper to fly foreign registered A/C.

You'd be surprised how your perspective can change with the right information.

[dash200]

Next time I'll try to look before I leap. But it's up to us, and especially existing and potential local operators, to put pressure on Aso Rock to change things. Nope, I don't think NCAA, never mind our exalted Aviation Princess, will listen to us. It's imperative, grave even. I think it's not beyond feasible, sensible or in the national interest to insist that locals fly and repair planes operating in our skies. We're not a lazy people, so any improvements to human and material assets required are equally not beyond our ability to execute. This is hoping 2013 may prove a turning point in these issues. Thanks, and God bless

[bluehawaii]

I don't know what kind of background you have, but I knew some Nigerian pilots at Oxford many years ago. they were very neat flyiers and highly intelligent. It is unfortunate that they are not involved in helping to regulate Nigerian Aviation.

[dash200]

I love airplanes, but transforming that into a flying career's proving too tough for me. Earned a degree meanwhile, though.

Unfortunately, good Nigerians will clash with entrenched interests, and a deep rooted system which promotes corruption and diabolic practices. Sure, I love Nigeria, but don't hesitate to admit it's weaknesses.

We're at a stage in the development process where the ugliness can be very strong, although, we shouldn't let it defeat our wish that things were better; they could be, if we tried