Who knows the regs?

[CaptainPoA]

Okay, sorry this is my first post here...but it's killing me. I've been arguing with some friends about what it's like to be a professional pilot and they say I'm crazy. Maybe I am, but in all my experience...all that I've seen, it is what it is.

So, basically, I'm here to settle a bet. It only applies to US certificated pilots as it deals with US FARs.

My friend (there are a few) is a CFI. He's been doing it for quite awhile and my hand on the bible knows FARs backwards and forwards. Recently it came up in conversation that I (I'm a 121 pilot for over a decade) have no idea what FAR 91.103 is. His jaw dropped and couldn't believe a professional pilot didn't know specific FARS.

I tried to explain that we don't even get issued FAR/AIM books and the specific FAR doesn't really matter to us in a 121 flight deck. We just need to know what the rules are and we learned them way back, years ago, and get updated through our training depts if changes occur.


So, Please help me settle a bet...


As a US 121 pilot (I'll take 135 too if that applies) do you have any idea what the specific FAR 91.103 deals with? (No fair looking it up and posting 'yes')




Thanks again and sorry to bother ya'll with this silliness.

[sevenstrokeroll]

not by number...but you and i do it on each flight

[grumpyoldgeek]

Relatively new PP-ASEL here. I can tell you what my examiner wanted on the oral test. A weather briefing. Runway lengths and elevations, departing and destination, along with specific aircraft performance for the weather that day. Terrain, alternate airports, TFR's and obstructions along the course of flight. Services provided at destination airport.

[bloom]

No need to be without a copy of the FAR/AIM. Get it on your cell phone for just a few bucks. The electrical ions involved in the download weigh hardly nothing.

[CaptainPoA]

Jesus f'ing Christ! I'm not looking to see how to get the FARs. I'm not interested in what a PPL was asked in his oral....

Look, this thread has had OVER 200 views and only 3 replies..and only 1 of the 3 had anything to do with the actual question. 33% is a failing grade folks. Maybe I worded the OP poorly. I would just like honest answers to how you operate. Don't try to make me happy by pretending you know and don't look up the answer and say you knew it. Just answer truthfully please.

I'd simply like you fine pilot folks out there to simply answer if you knew what FAR 91.103 is about. My position is nobody knows it. We don't NEED to know silly things like the number designator of FARs. We just need to comply with the actual regulation.

Please, once more. Any US 121 pilots out there please just answer. Maybe I'll be proved wrong and everyone flying heavy iron know the individual regs...or, maybe you'll prove me right and knowing minutia like the exact FAR reference for a rule is not necessary to perform our duties.

I'm this forum is anonymous and nobody is going to get in trouble for admitting they don't know what 91.103 is about. It's okay...really. Please post one way or the other.

[Jet Jockey A4]

"Jesus f'ing Christ! I'm not looking to see how to get the FARs. I'm not interested in what a PPL was asked in his oral...."

CaptainPoA... Please hold on to your horses!

You specifically asked for American pilots to answer your question. Just because there are over 200 views, doesn't mean any of them were American pilots.

No need to get too upset about the answers you received too.

[grumpyoldgeek]

In the words of one of my mentors, "ask a better question".

[zerozero]

I don't bother to memorize "chapter and verse" (or "part" and "paragraph").

Several years ago they reindexed the whole thing anyway. Why bother?

And yeah, it might be time to switch to DECAFF!

:}

[CaptainPoA]

Okay, that's a point. I'll let it sit for awhile. I guess it's plausable those 200+ guys were not US pilots.

I'm not cutting slack for the two ding dongs that answered though. I was pretty clear I was looking for US 121 pilots and I get "I just got my PPL...blah blah blah" and "If you would like to find the regs..." NO! I would NOT like to find the regs!!! I was very freaking clear about what I was looking for!!!

IF you are a 121 US pilot you either A: know what 91.103 is, or B: Do not.

Just answer the super simple question. If you can't then move along.


Okay...nice voice now.

Soooooo....any of you 121 US certificated pilots out there know the answer? I'd be super duper appreciative if you simply answer one way or the other. Oh, I have nude pictures* of Cameron Diaz I'll email to anyone who responds...








*i do not haver nude pictures of Cameron Diaz

[grumpyoldgeek]

Look, you're being a jerk in front of a world audience. If you really don't know, ask your chief pilot or call your FSDO.

And to everyone else, sorry. We're not all jerks in the USA.

[CaptainPoA]

Did you miss the part where the question applies to 121 US certificated pilots? Are you that? If not then STFU.

This was a bad idea. Thought I'd get a few people to cast their opinions, instead I get retards telling me they aren't a 121 pilot and others offering where I can look up regulation. sheesh...


To those that actually met the prerequisites of the worlds most simple question (US certificated pilot flying for a 121 carrier) thank you.


To those that responded without the qualifications to answer or with a suggestion where I can find something any pilot can find...thank you. Your efforts are appreciated...really.

[grumpyoldgeek]

I don't see anything in the FAR that differentiates between a newly minted PP-ASEL and a ATP. If you do, please show it to me and I'll gladly STFU.

Stop being a jerk. Ask your chief pilot.

[CaptainPoA]

I'm not looking for a ******* far. I'm looking to see how many folks out there flying 121 know what far 91.103 is!!!!!!


I know what it is. There is no reason to ask my cp anything.

I'm not a jerk...you're a retard.

[CaptainPoA]

Say, I was wondering...any blonde women have an opinion on hotdog stands?


Grumpyoldgeek: Well, I'm a dude and i have red hair...but I think hotdog stands should be illegal. They are a blight on our.....blah blah blah.


WHO CARES!!!! I specifically asked for NOT YOU! I wanted US certified 121 pilots. Are you any of that??? And now I'm the jerk? Really? Maybe you have some blame here...for not keeping your piehole shut.

[CaptainPoA]

And now there's almost 400 views and I have crap results. What is wrong with the world? It was such an easy question...I asked so nicely...retards answered and now I'm the jerk and nobodies ever going to answer the question....

Why's the world so unfair? Was I mean? Sure...but I asked a very simple question. A 5 year old could follow it. Yet grown men f'ed it all up and now it'll never be answered.


Whatever....

[Schroedinger]

You are a prime candidate for 411A. Stay the course.

[aviatorhi]

121 pilot here.

Regardless of whether you know a single reg or not, you're not professional in any sense of the word.

[CaptainPoA]

Yeah, I know...this thread is nuked. I'm not sure where it went off the tracks. I thought I asked a pretty straight forward question. Between ignoreing 300'ish views and no comments and respondants answering who were not in the requested data group.

Whatever. It's a sock puppet account anyway. I thought I could swoop in and get a simple question answered and it turns out this forum is not the place to get pilots to follow a simple request.

Take care people too afraid to speak, and people too retarded to keep quiet. Don't bother to respond now. This is my last post under this user name. Later.


BTW, I'm sure most of you are just fine. I might not have posted either. But 300! I would have hopped for at least 10% response. Oh well.

[lomapaseo]

unprofessional posts and a wind up

[framer]

I have held a private licence with instrument rating for over a decade and often fly my 172 in total IMC.
The answer is yes, I know what part 91.103 is. Recall like mine comes with experience.
You should really follow grumpyoldgeeks advice and have a sit down chat with your Chief Pilot. He or she will be able to walk you through it I´m sure. You might want to consider working on your personal flight discipline so that this sort of knowledge vacuum doesn´t impact negatively on your career.

[Island-Flyer]

As a US certificated commercial pilot with an ATP, no I can't tell you what 91.103 is off the top of my head. However I tell *every* pilot that is trained at our company "don't memorize regs by number". There is one easy answer on every oral - "I don't remember exactly but I know where to reference that."

I admit I looked it up and that regulation is actually superseded by regulations under FAR Part 121. The preflight is replaced with the requirement of the aircraft to be in an airworthy condition with all records reflecting such as per FAR 121.303 and FAR 121.605, weather requirements are covered by FAR 121.599, FAR 121.99, 121.103, and FAR 121.607 cover the need for navigation facilities for domestic operations, FAR 121.189 and 121.195 cover performance requirements and weights, and fuel requirements are set forth by 121.639 for domestic operations.

Commercial aircraft are not required to carry the POH or AFM if the operator has an approved FCOM. In other words air carriers are authorized to develop and author their own versions of the POH/AFM so long as it is approved (or accepted, I can't remember) by the Administrator. The FCOM is not required to have landing/takeoff information if the operator has an approved Airport Analysis manual available to the flight crew.

So in short, no - I don't know 91.103 and it does not apply to my operations.

If that is the regulation you think drives requirements udner FAR Part 121 I would call into question your air carrier training.

[CaptainPoA]

Framer

I have held a private licence with instrument rating for over a decade and often fly my 172 in total IMC.
The answer is yes, I know what part 91.103 is. Recall like mine comes with experience.
You should really follow grumpyoldgeeks advice and have a sit down chat with your Chief Pilot. He or she will be able to walk you through it I´m sure. You might want to consider working on your personal flight discipline so that this sort of knowledge vacuum doesn´t impact negatively on your career.

You sir, are...well....

Common! I specifically said, 'NO PPL's" and you chime in. Am I on camera? Is this a TV show? I ask an straight forward question and a bunch a smart people screw it all up...

Okay...I'm sure you had a super good reason. Maybe the instrument rating put you over the top in your mind. I dunno. Here's a tip...Next time someone asks for a B-777 Captains advice on something don't chime in because you flew a C-172. Yes...one on the numbers match....but it's a little different, even IMC.

As a US certificated commercial pilot with an ATP, no I can't tell you what 91.103 is off the top of my head. However I tell *every* pilot that is trained at our company "don't memorize regs by number". There is one easy answer on every oral - "I don't remember exactly but I know where to reference that."

I admit I looked it up and that regulation is actually superseded by regulations under FAR Part 121. The preflight is replaced with the requirement of the aircraft to be in an airworthy condition with all records reflecting such as per FAR 121.303 and FAR 121.605, weather requirements are covered by FAR 121.599, FAR 121.99, 121.103, and FAR 121.607 cover the need for navigation facilities for domestic operations, FAR 121.189 and 121.195 cover performance requirements and weights, and fuel requirements are set forth by 121.639 for domestic operations.

Commercial aircraft are not required to carry the POH or AFM if the operator has an approved FCOM. In other words air carriers are authorized to develop and author their own versions of the POH/AFM so long as it is approved (or accepted, I can't remember) by the Administrator. The FCOM is not required to have landing/takeoff information if the operator has an approved Airport Analysis manual available to the flight crew.

So in short, no - I don't know 91.103 and it does not apply to my operations.

If that is the regulation you think drives requirements udner FAR Part 121 I would call into question your air carrier training.


No No No!!!

That's exactly what I was looking for. For some reason I thought by page 2 I'd have two pages full of that sort of comment. I have to admit I got a carried away with the PPL guy answering my question to 121. Maybe he didn't know what 121 was. Or maybe he's a twit. I don't know...but it was premature for me to go off on him. (sorry old geek)

Anyway, it's too late anyway. I was using this as a last ditch effort to show my retarded CFI friend who knows all the regs by number that airline pilots don't know them by number. We know what they are...but can't quote the actual number, ie, FAR 91.103.

He gave me a ton of crap for not knowing to wich i said no heavy iron pilot knows, to which he said BS and I'm just weak.

My only point here was to try and get a tad of support that most folks flying a plane that burns 6,000 lbs of fuel per hour or more would have no idea what 91.103 is.

I think maybe I worded it poorly. Whatever....live and learn.

[alisoncc]

Reckon the OP and this guy (Captain 'subdued' aboard JetBlue flight) are one and the same. No wonder he lost his rag on the flight. Nobody could tell him what FAR 91.103 was.

:ok:

[CaptainPoA]

Yes, that guy is me.


Say, whilst we're on the subject...

Could you please explain why nobody can answer a very simple question? Either you know it or you don't. Either you're a 121 US pilot or your not. Yet all I get are people who are NOT 121 US Pilots who don't even bother to state if they know it.

WTF!!!!!?????

[framer]

I thought you had made your last post ?
Here's a tip...Next time someone asks for a B-777 Captains advice on something don't chime in because you flew a C-172. Yes...one on the numbers match....but it's a little different, even IMC.
Not really. They all fly the same, I have experience on several different aircraft, Cessnas, most of the Pipers, and also a Mooney retractable. It´s as simple as Power+Attitude=Performance. If I had access to the performance manual for half an hour I could fly a 777 just as well as my 172. I can´t believe you fly for a living and don´t know the Regs by chapter and paragraph. That would be like me turning up to work and not knowing how many employees my company had (I´m a Human Resources Specialist for my day job).
I actually might swap over to airline flying in two or three years when I don´t need my current salary anymore. It´d be quite a hit to the pocket but there are only so many meetings one should sit through in a lifetime.

[Northbeach]

I'm a current U.S. 121 Captain.

Without looking up FAR 91 regulation under discussion I would have no idea what regulation it was referencing.

On a seperate note. I have forgotten how to add somebody on my "ignore" list, will somebody please remind me.

Regarding 411A, I miss him, he died last April 1st if my memory is correct.

-Northbeach-