any significant others here who can enlighten me about life 'over there'?

[ssauer1930]

OK, I am posting here on ssauer's name.
My significant other (male), is considering looking at Middle East for so.
I am scared to death as a female about living there.... I realize I need to be culture sensitive, but would like to know how other American wives/sig others feel about living in a country where females are looked at as nothing more than being 'owned', the violence against them (stoned if thought to have an affair or other wrong deeds)- just what can I expect/be afraid of?
I am not a 21 year old who is wild and impulsive, but I am very concerned about living in a country that does not seem to like us.
I understand that we can live on the 'compound', but I still don't think I would feel safe.
Any wives/so's here? Female pilots? Guys, please let your wives respond...
Thank you.
"too old to worry"

[helen-damnation]

Hi have lived in Dubai for the past 10 years as an EK wife & can thoroughly recommend it. This is NOT Saudi Arabia!! You can shop,drive and socialise to your hearts content. You can also work - which I do with my husband's consent:) Conservative dress is advised, knees covered & shoulders in malls etc. Lived in the UK all my life until I came here & have had an infinitely better quality of life since I have been here:) Good luck,happy to be a sand groper:)

[Black Pudding]

Living in Qatar is the same as living in Dubai

Been here 2 years and my wife has been here 1 year. She says she loves it ?

Also from the UK. The worst thing is the driving, apart from that, life is good and a very safe place to be.

Again, Qatar is not Saudi Arabia

[Capt Krunch]

ssauer1930

sorry but you are seriously way to extreme.. this is not Afghanistan out here. Lay off the CNN and you might see better. (sorry but jeez ma'am)

I've been out here for 10 years.. my wife for 8 years (kidnaped her a couple of years after i arrived.. ha-ha).. both expats and both first time in the middle east and I have to say this is the safest place that i have ever lived in the world, i can also speak for my wife. (i dont allow her to speak.. hahaha)
there are millions of expats out here and every one lives relatively normal lives.. aside from the heat, and conservative dress, I do everything that we would normally do back in our home countries as does my wife (when i allow her.. hahahaha)

get out in the world lady, you'll soon see it's not a scary as CNN makes it out to be :ugh:

Poisoned by Compromise
Krunch

[MacManiac]

I was in Arizona/Phoenix for four months last year, and something happened which really confused me.

I finished my grocery shopping at Welmart and passed by Burger King which was inside the building, anyways the following conversation took place between me and the cashier lady.

Lady: so where you from?
Me: Bahrain
Lady: where is that?
Me: We are close to Dubai and Qatar
Lady: is that in India :ugh: :{

I mean no malevolence from what i wrote its just i was shocked. and now ssauer1930

please ignore all sorts of media, it doesn't do any good. Any before heading to Dubai, maybe if you could browse Google Earth for 10-15minutes would be great to know where you'll live.

We welcome you.


http://www.digdang.com/media/images/how_the_media_can_manipulate_our_viewpoint_7894.jpg

[potatowings]

This is a truly excellent question and something you really need to research. I understand some of your concerns, but please please please do your research before making the bold and sweeping statements about the ME. I don't live there now but did a while ago and intend on returning as I much prefer it to where I live now.


...would like to know how other American wives/sig others feel about living in a country where females are looked at as nothing more than being 'owned' You are not owned, nor is any woman. As a note, you can't (legally) live together unless you are married, so forget significant other!


...the violence against them (stoned if thought to have an affair or other wrong deeds) Where did you get this from? Yes, sexual relations outside marriage is illegal, so don't do it, and a brief stint in prison, a few weeks or so, is possible followed by deportation, but really, you gonna do that to hubby?


I am not a 21 year old who is wild and impulsive Then please do some serious research and come back and ask your questions. We'll all be happy to help you with your questions and concerns.


I understand that we can live on the 'compound', but I still don't think I would feel safe. I never lived in a compound out there, just an apartment building which had Arabs, Asians, Westerners etc... never had such an amazing and QUIET bunch of neighbours, and safe? You'll struggle to find a safer urban environment anywhere in the world.

[Old King Coal]

My wife & I are now in our 4th year in Dubai and we're very happy about being here!

Yes there are, inevitably, some frustrations (especially wrt getting setup here) and there are of course some 'cultural differences' and, YES, it's a more than a bit hot & humid in the summer (that's why we have air-conditioning and 'Gulf spec' cars); but, to counter that: fuel is cheap, no taxes on your income (though if you're a citizen of the USA you're still required to give your government some of what you earn here), there's excellent shopping, food from around the world. Booze too. Pubs / NightClubs / Restaurants, etc. The standard of living (for expats) is very high. We'd also agree with what's been said about it being a very safe place!

With a quick delve into YouTube you might find some videos like this (filmed in one of Dubai's super-size malls); Have a look at the people, see what they (especially the women) are wearing, see also the mix of different ethnicities, etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohqxIMZ5eDs

And / or maybe these too might provide a clue as to what it's like:

High Life Dubai Season 7- Episode 1 Seg 1 - YouTube

High Life Dubai Season 7- Episode 9 Seg 1 - YouTube

High Life Dubai Season 7- Episode 10 Seg 3- Nancy Ajram/Akshay Kumar - YouTube

[Iver]

Why not broaden your horizons and see the world? In any case, the United States is becoming a socialist European-like state under Obama, so, you won't be missing much when you move away... The USA will resemble Belgium or Portugal in a few years. :mad::mad::mad::ugh::{:=:yuk:

Dubai, Abu Dhabi and Doha are all very nice and reasonably safe. Like any other cities, you have good neighborhoods and bad - be strategic, do your homework and move to the safe/good neighborhoods.

There is more to this world than McDonalds and Taco Bell in the States.... :ugh::}:p

[Wizofoz]

While we're at it, I have friends who DID live in Saudi, have moved to Dubai....and MISS living in Saudi!!!

[Snookie]

Hello,

It depends on your ethnicity if you would like it here. First of all, it is not America. On the side note, i am third generation American that has dark skin. I am part native american and explain to people that i am from America. There are some people, including many pilots, who believe that to be an American, you have to have light skin. With that being said, there are subtle hints of racism that is not found in most parts of the world. I would say that the UAE is 20 to 30 years behind most developed countries in the treatment of human beings.

Sometimes it will drive you mad while other times, one just accepts it. There is more of a discriminatory culture than their is a gender specific concern by the hegemonic idealogies. Another issue is the amount of stares that a female gets in public. Other than that, Dubai is fairly safe for females. My wife can go out clubbing with her friends without being approached like you would in the states. I wouldnt say it is 100% safe, due to recent crimes against females, but it is safer than most western cities.

snookie

[Snookie]

Forgot to add that your husband has to give your permission to drive. My wife found that amusing but one has to realize that we are in a different country and need to respect their rules.

On my permission letter, i wrote that my wife can only drive on mondays and tuesdays between the hours of 8 to 10am. The emirati that took her application had a nice sense of humour and smiled at my wife. It is issues such as those that one has to just have a sense of humour and go with the punches without getting embroiled in a "different" culture.

Two things that you will learn here are patience and humour. Not specifically in that order.

snookie

[John21UK]

Came to Bahrain just after the unrest started and yes, we were worried. However, both me and my wife love it and don't want to leave. It's safe ( indeed safe!) and I've heard my wife state several times that she loves it here. She's truely spread her wings and setup businesses, attands shows as a vendor, and races all over Bahrain on her own or with our little girl. You'll find area's to stay clear off at certain times in any country/city. There's a very active facebook community amongst the mums and expats so they are on top of what's going on in Bahrain all day-every day. Both good and bad. I suspect they know even more than the local authorities at times...:p Many of her friends (with-and without kids) that have lived in Dubai, Kuwait or Doha (no other examples) all state that Bahrain is so much better and 'cosier'. Granted, the place has changed since the unrest so we've been told. Guess it all depends on what you are looking for and what you find important.

She's free do do what she wants, when and how she wants it and does not need my 'assistance'. The Bahraini's are very nice and warm people. It's truely a holiday place/lifestyle here.

[nolimitholdem]

There is more to this world than McDonalds and Taco Bell in the States....

Oh please. You can't throw a rock in Dubai without hitting a fast food joint, it's disgusting. It's the world capital of obesity and Type 2 diabetes. For a region that likes to blame the "Evil West" for all of their ills, they've sure picked up the torch and run with it when it comes to junk culture. If I was American I'd move to Dubai just so I could feel thin and healthy...by comparison.

For those picking on the original poster's lack of knowledge, having worked with EK's much-vaunted multicultural workforce, I can safely say that Americans have no monopoly on ignorance about anything outside of their borders. Most EK cabin crew wouldn't recognize anything outside of a shopping mall.

Just saying'.

[Bindair Dundat]

I think that your happiness in Dubai can be strongly correlated to where you come from. It's all relative and if you come from South Africa or certain parts of the UK, Dubai feels super safe..amazingly so. However, if safety includes driving, it is probably one of the less safe places on the planet. Keep in mind that if you come here you will, at some point, experience appalling and dangerous driving of the likes you have never, ever witnessed.

We enjoyed our time there but are over the moon to be gone as well. Our favourite part of Dubai was actually all the travelling we did. Being part of an airline makes this super feasible and a huge perk. Everyone goes on about the lifestyle but for us, it was limiting. If not for the ability to travel, we would surely have lost our minds. How much mall hopping and beach time can you really endure? It does feel like a holiday for the first few years and there are some nice perks. You can work and my wife did for many years which helped finance a lot of trips out of there but it comes with it's fair share of headaches as well. Human rights, fairness, and
ethics are in short supply on the ground in Middle Eastern countries and if you can turn a blind eye to that and know what your goals are than it can be doable. But, trust me, you will have some **** days there where you wonder what the heck I am doing here?
As an American, you really should consult your countrymen in terms of their level of happiness and also how long they have been there for. Most people are in a honeymoon phase for the first few years and love all the perks but it is a longterm commitment and you have to consider what that means to you to drop out of your home life for 7 - 10 years?

[Left Coaster]

Well, lemme see, just back from an Elton John concert and looking forward to the Eagles in April, and for those who are a fan (I am not!) Madonna is doing two shows in June...Abu Dhabi has a world class F1 race track, Dubai has super star power when it comes to tourist attractions (if that floats your boat) Restaurants from A to "zee" and all you might ask for regarding stuff to buy, and yes you get the things you can get a home most of the time. Cars are way cheaper than in the US... it goes on and on... I would guess that it's EK your husband is joining, so the ease of getting settled in is somewhat better than those who join other companies. Forget your cloistered US media reporting and come with eyes wide open. You will have some advantage at first, because you will be living close to, and have something in common with the people who work with your husband. (Careful with that, it can go sour very fast if you let it). Keep some things private, the glass houses have thin walls! The cultural barriers fall fast if you put even a small effort in to see where you are. I will grant that it's very likely you will have your eyes opened to what the world actually looks like and there are some shocking examples of excess here as well as the sad opposite side of the coin, but I dare you to not find that in your own country. Enjoy your new experience... you'll be amazed at what you miss out on if you stay home in the Land of the Free!

[ironbutt57]

Wazzzup Lefty!!
:ok:

[Limeygal]

As a single woman, I lived in Bahrain for 8 years. It was the best time of my life. I never once felt threatened. It was a wonderful experience and I wouldn't have missed it for the world. I live in the USA now, and to be honest with you, I felt safer in Bahrain than I do here. The only thing I am sorry about is how Bahrain is becoming more like the US! It is a wonderful culture and the people are fabulous. If you believe everything you read or see on the TV, then you will have a very jaundiced view of life in the ME. Take the chance, and I am sure you will never regret it.

[HamFan]

Living in Qatar is the same as living in Dubai

Twenty years behind in western development, more restrictive alcohol laws, more restrictive work practices, worse (if that were possible) airline management, less flamboyant malls (which appears to be the true measure of any middle eastern city) and when you go stir crazy and need to get away, you require permission to leave.

Sounds nothing like living in Dubai.

[ssauer1930]

I appreciate some of the info.
I(we), are a shy about the final decision, as we have several military friends- their views are not at all the same as yours...
I have a friend who was teaching at the Saudi University- was afraid in Saudi, went to Afganistan to teach and loved it there, but now won't even go back to visit because says it is just too dangerous right now to be there....
I have heard so many stories about having to have a 'driver', the bad areas, what is 'punishable', the electricity 'black-outs'......the majority from military friends. What lttle we have heard from ME employees of airlines seems not so great in different ways- the poor management- worse than the US...less retrictions on working hours, etc.
I have no need for a fancy shopping mall- just enough to set up a household.
Seems like dogs are an unusual 'item'. I want ours to be safe.
Oh..the driving CAN'T be any worse than Dallas!! Just can't be....
And yes.. I have no want to be married.. it is just fine like it is. Not to ruin a good thing. But a local prison doesn't sound too good either.
There are so many things to think about.
I am a nurse, but have no desire to work over there- again, I have heard so many bad stories about the nurses...yelling at patients, actually hitting a patient.
So, please understand that it is not a 'You-tube' attitude, but having friends who are/were there recently.
Thank you.

[mutt]

It appears that you have made your decision, I hope you enjoy Dallas.......

Mutt

[BigGeordie]

If you are talking about going to Afghanistan or even Saudi that is a whole different thing to Dubai/Doha/Bahrain. You have to realise that the "Middle East" isn't just one homogenious country. Maybe if you clarified which part you are looking at you would get some more relevant responses. Most people here are in the more "Western" parts and that is what they are telling you about. A shopping mall in Dubai is not the same thing as a military camp in Afghanistan. Except during the sales maybe.:E

[potatowings]

Please stay in Dallas, I'll take the Middle East anyday!

[pilotbaba]

@potatowings; Well said.....


@ssauer1930;

Ma'm, You haven't said where In Middle East your "significant Other" was offered a job, Saudi Arabia, UAE, Qatar, Kuwait, Jordan, Iraq, IRAN...????

The place & the airline could mean a world of difference.

BTW, Afghanistan is not Middle East, I hope you know that......

Even though I have no personal experience in working for an airline in any of these above mentioned countries, I have travelled enough to tell you that what your milliatry friend has said may be an occasional CASE, that is NOT the norm & definately not the kind of life in the Middle east what you have imagined for your self.

@ all others......

Funny, I watching CNBC a while ago & they mentioned the US, Europe, BRIC & the Rest of the world.. All other other countries is ROW Rest of world for us americans......
(For those who don't know what a BRIC is. It is Brazil, Russia, India & China)

I am surpirsed at the ignorance level demonstrated by some of my fellow Americans & how little some of us Americans know about the rest of the world.....

Of course, the education system didn't teach much & a majority of us don't even have a passport, so we haven't seen much for ourselves to experience first hand......

In a NUT SHELL, quite a lot us Americans, we have become very much like the Frog of a Pond, who thinks that my pond is the best......

Ma'm, your ignornace may be costing your "significant other", an opportunity of a life time & all you can quote for your decision is a friend from the Millitary....

Best of Luck...... Your family & hopefully well qualified "significant other" PILOT, is going to need one badly, if he continues to fly in USA, with those deteriorating conditions........

[Cat3BNoDH]

pilotbaba: :D right on the spot!!!

[SassyPilotsWife]

So nice to see familiar faces err names on here come to the defense of living in the ME ! And rightfully so.

Ssaur.. I'm a wife, an American and a Paramedic. Let me give you top reason to move. Before I do, after reading ALL post, let me clarify something that you " heard" from a friend in regards to medical care here.

The nurses here are some of the best I've ever seen. They are patient, empathetic, NOT OVER WORKED, and actually listen to their patients. They are not forced to deliver a certain type of medical care based on a patients ability to pay/not pay. These are nurses who make less than half of what the pay in the US is, yet they deliver much superior care. As a patient who had to undergo major surgery here and being in the medical field myself, I watched them like a hawk! I waited for the opportunity to teach them critical techniques that I knew they were just not educated in. Instead, I learned from them. Boy could we use them in the US! They presented with professional and aseptic technique 24/7. They did not short cut. Even my IV's were changed out every 72 hours regardless of adequate perfusion or not. These girls have mad skills. With all that said though, alot of nurses here are from countries that don't get paid alot of money so hospitals and care providers here hire them for the lower pay. You can obtain a decent paying job here you will just need to do alot of networking.

Now.. as a pilots wife living here let me give you the pros and cons from MY perspective:

Life is peaceful. There are no car jackings, no high crime. There is not a drug problem here in epidemic proportions like the US, therefore, the lower crime rate.

You will gain an education that can't be taught at any university or college.

You will wind up with an extended family that includes all races, ages, nationalities and religions.

You will learn to drive defensively. Yes the driving here is a challenge. Much more than any major city in the US.

Women are treated with high regard here. That was one of my 1st major concerns when my husband was offered a job here. I can tell you it is quite the opposite. We get spoiled rotten ! Not only by our husbands who brought us here, but we don't have to wait in queue/line most of the time, but we have our own branches for banking, we can get our cars washed while we're simply picking up groceries. We are able to have domestic help at a fraction of what it cost in the US. That includes maid service, gardeners, drivers, pet sitters.

Going to a nail salon is like going to a full day spa. The women who work at these treat us like royalty. Matter of fact, most of the places you go to get your nails done are full day salons.

You are much safer here than in the US. Those who commit crimes are held to a much higher punishment, so they are less likely to commit them.

If you like to shop, you will have access to some of the finest shopping in the world.

For me, living away from other family has given my husband and I more time together. We have been living like newlyweds and we are having a blast. Of course our children are all adults with the youngest still in college. It was a rocky start and challenge but we are like 2 children in a new playground now.

You have the opportunity to see so much of the world for so much less. Living here and flying from here allow you to travel to other destinations in the world for alot less airfare, the ability to become friends who have homes in some of the best cities in the world that you would love to travel to.

You will become friends with alot more pilot wives which allow you to develop friendships with those same girls/guys who understand what your going thru.

You get to experience culture, foods, religions that you might not have had the opportunity to experience while living at home in the US where you may isolate yourself to a more local and confined network and neighborhood.

Getting anywhere is much more accessible via taxi and public transportation. Especially if moving from a more rural town outside a major city in the US.

Walking into any business where your addressed as " madam", being given personal service, not having to pump your own gas, having access to having clothes tailor made etc.. for pennies on the dollar really makes you appreciate living here so much more.

The cons:

Being away from family for long periods of time
Adjusting to receiving services in a timely fashion
Finding your favorite foods, toiletries can be a challenge.
Trying to explain to your family why you prefer living in the ME rather than next door to them back home in the US.

I hope this addresses some of the small things that you may have been wondering about. If you really want an unbiased opinion from other aviator wives, there is a pilot wives facebewk page that you can join. I've become friends with quite a bit of them and they have alot to offer to include blogs. One wife from DXB has a blog that is absolutely fascinating and she writes to include almost daily a challenge that most of us have had at one time or another.

One very large benefit to living in the UAE vs the US is that you can bypass so much red tape if you want to open a biz here or have a career with different opportunities. There is something for everyone here. Where else can you snow ski and water ski on the same day just minutes from each other ?

Please PM me anytime if you want to know more. Best of luck in your decision !

[Iver]

Excellent post SPW! Very thorough description - and hopefully it dispells some misconceptions about women in that part of the ME.

[NG_Kaptain]

Nice one Sassy.

[Bindair Dundat]

Sassy, I have to agree with Mullah here. You really have the rose colored glasses on and fail to see the full picture of the place. You are clearly living only within your small bubble of experience when you make statements that women are treated to a high regard. In actuality, a very small percentage of white and arab women may have a tolerable existance but the larger majority are living lives of servitude and abuse. For example, the number of maids that suffer abuse at the hands of their employers in the UAE is a disgrace...but perhaps they aren't "real women"?
As for medical care, there was a time many moons ago that nurses in the primary expat hospitals were recruited from places like Oz and the Uk and made a decent living, however, now they are all low wage earners from places like India that work atrocious schedules and make poor wages. Amazing nursing care...not terrible but not brilliant for any time I or my family were hospitalized which was several.
It is nice you are enjoying life there but you did not present any kind of balanced viewpoint of the place.

[SEAMASTER]

Hi sassy, I don't work in the middle east but I have visited, my question is simple, if your hubby was sat in a nice legacy pilot job in the U.S on a good salary and T&Cs and in your life you and your family was content, would you up sticks and choose your percieved better option of going to live in Dubai ? I could be wrong but I suspect you are making the most of your circumstances, which there is nothing wrong with, we all may be forced into that choice but I just ask for a bit of deep felt honesty on the topic ! With the upmost respect.

Seamster

[SMT Member]

Me thinks this one pretty much sums up the knowledge of the OP:

Oh..the driving CAN'T be any worse than Dallas!! Just can't be....

Honest advice: Don't come. In fact, don't ever leave the US.

[Left Coaster]

Careful here guys...it's well known on these forums that when one takes on the "Sassy" one, the sh*t she flings goes everywhere...I should know! The stuff was splattered everywhere when I called her on something...:eek...take all advice with lots of caution!

[givemewings]

As a woman I feel pretty safe here, even walking at night but then again I still use common sense and pick the areas I go to carefully. I wouldn't walk around in Bur Dubai or Deira alone at night, just like I wouldn't walk around alone at night in Oz...

Yes women can have a pretty good, safe life here- but not for a minute am I under the illusion that sh!t doesn't happen here, just because it's not in the papers, doesn't mean it didn't happen. Once you've been here awhile and talk to some of the people around (shop girls, staff in bars etc) you hear some stuff that makes you a bit more cautious than perhaps Sassy's post would suggest you be.

Sure if you're always around your husband, have someone to drive you everywhere and live in a nice gated compound I'd bet you're safer here than anywhere else. Reality is, people can come and go in most communities as they wish without any checks (have seen it myself) let's not forget awhile back those people hanging around kids in a certain housing development and a principal of a school admitting several students had been approached by strangers. Some people seem to think Dubai is a magical fantasy land where nothing bad happens, use the same common sense as you would at home (if not more, because you don't know the place well when you first come here) don't get sucked in by the idea that it's 100% crime free- because it's not. The police are on the job but you only have to pick up 7 Days to read about the latest killing or drug bust to know that crime does happen here. Maybe not violent petty crime like bag snatching but sneakier stuff, so yes as a woman I would say enjoy but be careful. Not all women live with family here either, yes you can have a lot of freedom as a single girl too but then there are added dangers.

Talk to the wrong person, wear that dress just a bit too short, have one too many drinks.... and there's plenty that can happen to you. I've seen too many girls have close calls on boozy nights out to want to bother with it myself, I prefer to enjoy a beverage or two at home or at dinner with friends, being a woman and being intoxicated in Dubai (aside from being illegal) is just asking for trouble. By all means have your fun but don't believe that stuff doesn't happen just because it's the Middle East.

Try googling women's refuge/rape crisis center in UAE and you'll see what I mean.

If you read into a lot of the news stories these horror stories seem to mainly stem from the kind of people the victims were involved with, so I guess what I'm trying to say is enjoy & live your life but be aware of the pitfalls and be careful who you hang around with/where you go. Be aware of the local laws (and where they might work against you) and keep a low profile.

I can't really say that Sassy's picture of having people available to cater to such things as washing my car or carry my groceries really appeals to me, if you're working with a family then sure but as long as I'm able I'll do my own shopping thanks. Oh yes and I caught a bus last week. Not the most awesome experience but not the horror some people make it out to be. Sometimes you just got to put away any snobby attitude about the people around you and remember that they are just people trying to get by like you are. And unlike you, maybe can't afford a taxi or even the metro so the bus it is.

[miss controller]

Obviously there is a large spectrum of experiences. We can only comment on our own experience. For us, we live in Qatar. We are mostly happy here, some things are frustrating (eg red tape with regards to paperwork...the standard of driving, which is horrendous) but in general life is good.

Qatar is probably much safer than many major cities around the world, but that doesn't mean sensible caution should be forgotten. We aren't overly confident in the health system, now we would opt for private medical care. The schooling system however, if you pick the right school is very good and my son is miles ahead of his peers at home. You do have to be married, there is no cohabiting but women can drive, go out alone, have their own bank account etc etc apart from the modest dress and no public displays of affection, it isn't really that much of a change!

With anywhere you live, the place is what you make of it. If you go into it thinking you will hate it, if you don't try to experience the culture, the food, or try to make friends (which we found relatively easy with all the expats over here)...then you will hate it. If you move to the ME and give it a good go, then chances are you will adapt and come to enjoy your time here.

[ssauer1930]

I appreciate your views- and one person's paradiase is another's Hell...
In the beginning there was/is a possibility of Dubai.
Now I am not sure...I really didn't plan to work, as have been'retired' for awhile. I have been a Federal Government employee in Public Health, and there may be a position in Doha...so if I decided to work so would look at QA.
I was all happy when I read Sassy's post...then read the one after and have a feeling that that is more appropriate to what I have heard.
Yep- the airlines in the US want more, more, more..for les, less, less. Just like American hospitals employing nurses...
I would consider working in a ME hospital IF I was certain it wasn't going to be as bad as the US hospitals have become.
And having so at home more days would be great.
Thinking, even if have to reapply for positions later.
Driving really that bad, eh? What if we chose Doha- is it the same there?
I do worry about the driving, as I have a very, very fragile neck/back due to an injury. Getting in an accident is a risk. But so is falling down...
The more we know, the easier it might be to decide to get a look/live in a different culture. Which I have enjoyed even here in the US, living/working on Native American reservations in very remote areas- delivering babies in Hogans, burying a piece of umbilical cord, do deliveries with full ceremony/drums outside the door and 20 people in the room,having the FOB standing there with a knife because he wants a healthy baby (after mom has done years of ETOH/drugs, getting knife wounds
,gunshot dropped off the end of a pickup truck outside the ER door, oh- it is quite a 3rd world on some rez's...
Thanks again- the more we (I) know the easier my decision.
Thanks- please keep adding your feeling, anyone!

[NG_Kaptain]

This is mainstream USA isn't it?

Seriously- I think you should just stay in the USA. It is much safer for you.
Over here the camels run everywhere disrupting the traffic. You fear for you life here, everyone carries an IED ready to detonate. Water is difficult to come by, you have to march for days and go to the Wild Wadi Well to pull up your weekly ration of water.
Women are kept chained to the kitchen with just enough slack to reach the bedroom. No definitely stay put.

:):):):):)
Was offered fifty camels for my wife last week.

[Jetaim]

What you need to understand is that they are not only trying to convince you but mainly themselves.
Dubai, Doha or Abu Dhabi might have bought CNN ( that quite hypocritically still talks about ending modern slavery while getting the money from the modern slavers..) but they still are just incredibly shallow and incredibly hot and humid **** holes populated by arrogant locals and desperate expats the main part of which is constituted by semi enslaved third world workers. You will be a step up on the ladder but still basically a slave with no rights. They are sand boxes with one of most horrible climate in the world and you will find your self hopping mall to mall just to have something to do. So if you have a job In Dallas... stay in Dallas. If you are unemployed than consider it as last option. As per the local culture...what culture would you expect in a theocratic dictatorships?

[Cloud Bunny]

ssauer1930 (http://www.pprune.org/members/371022-ssauer1930)the only thing I would add to this discussion is don't keep asking everyone else what they think and get out for a holiday and have a look around. Do some of the tourist bits but dont treat it as a holiday as such - it's more of a fact finding mission.
My wife and I (having visited Dubai on holiday) did just that before commiting to the Emirates selection and it firmed up our thoughts and beliefs that we would have a better way of life here than the one we 'enjoyed' back in the UK.
Dubai is not without it's faults and in some regards can be quite frustrating when trying to set up home - but then where the hell isn't when you are moving to a new Country especially if it is your first time.
Anyway, now we are settled we could not be happier. We had a discussion just yesterday when we were enjoying the sunny weather on the beach about how little we miss the UK and how we have no plans to hurry back anytime soon. My wife works in a good job, earning a lot more than she did back in the UK, I love my job, we enjoy what there is to enjoy and let the stuff that can potentially 'wind you up' just roll off our backs. Dubai is very much a place that you make of it what you want to make of it and you wont be able to make any kind of decision until you experience it first hand for yourself and stop comparing it to a war zone!!!:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

[Airmann]

It is as the above poster mentioned. Moving anywhere new is a difficult and frustrating experience. Firstly you're somewhere new and you are a little vulnerable and insecure, it's only natural. But if you come with the right mindset and most importantly if you stay away from the whiners and the wingers you will be fine. Let me just clarify this last point. There is a culture here of over ignorant p individuals, with little to no appreciation of:

The local culture
The history of the region
The underlying reasons for peoples' behaviour
The wider world and what's going on in it


You see most people are here for money, only. And in addition they lead shallow lives and basically only fly and drink/party. They cannot entertain themselves or find any peace unless they are being fed by the system, I.e. night clubs, concerts, movies, consumer goods, etc. They are mostly greedy people, who want want and want more. The reality is back home they have this lifestyle but not the money and over here they have the money but not the lifestyle. Now they whine and they want everything their way, what it comes down to incredible selfishness and complete disassociation with the world and what is really going on in it. This is despite the facts that these snobs live around people who have left their homes and their families, to work for £100/month, in conditions that are as close to slavery as you will find in this day and age. Some of this stuff makes sweatshops look like holiday resorts.

Now these people are fundamentally flawed as human beings, and hence cannot and will not find peace anywhere unless their base human desires are being filled on time and all the time, just as it is at home. Talk to them about history, philosophy or geography and they dont have a clue about what youre talking about, mention the atest movies or songs and they're an encyclopedia of knowledge. Many, if not most, don't last. The ones who do are mostly of the following type:

1. Independent
2. Caring
3. Patient
4. Open minded
5. Understanding
(to put it succinctly, those who are good people)

Now you either come here with those qualities or you learn them quickly, because the selfish ones come through a revolving door and leave through it just as quickly. The reality is that they will move to the next country with exactly the same attitude and continue to whine and moan until one fine day they either die, or they wake up and realise that the problem actually lies with them.

I can tell you now, when people say: "it's what you make of it", what they really mean is: If you have good qualities and exhibit them then you'll generally gravitate toward other good people and you'll enjoy your time here, and if you come here and throw a tantrum people will being hoping for your swift departure, will not treat you well and in all likely hood you'll be on pprune talking the plae down and asking for money. Ever noticed how much talk of salaries there is on this site + country/culture bashing?

Now let me add a disclaimer here.
1. There are good people on this forum who are here for the rit reasons and are level headed people who have been successful in the region
2. I am not saying that this region doesn't have it's flaws, it does, it has many flaws, there are huge problems, but if you actually delve into the reasons you will understand quite quickly that things are not so black and white
3. There are good and bad people everywhere, so yes there are plenty of ignorant people in the middle east as well.
4. Don't let the people on this forum convince you that they are angels that have been unjustly tortured in the middle east, in reality they have plenty of issues themselves, the reality is that back hoe the system is such that their behaviour is generally accepted or catered to whereas over here it isn't.

It's a superiority complex that has been instilled in them from childhood by their society/government and one that is constantly propagated though the media and fed incessantly through sport, art etc. and if you all think that I am inferring only to individuals from the west then think again, because although this attitude is predominantly found in the west due to its recent success in the last for centuries, it is slowly spreading throughout the world and can now be found in the hearts of millions of people western and not.

[jeff748]

ExpatWoman - Classifieds, Deals, Events, Forum, Jobs in Dubai, UAE (http://www.expatwoman.com)

[Airmann]

Thanks for the reply mullah, I appreciate it. I don't want to steal this thread anymore because this debate is a long and complex one and has been discussed all over this forum. My post is just my opinion, and the way i see it, i didnt mean to offend anyone, nor am saying that i understand the dynamics of everyones life, sorry if i offended anyone.

But here is the stark reality, and i dont mean to sound "holier-than-thou", I was in your shoes before mullah, but it was only after a few things happened in my life that I began to see things differently. There are too many people in this region, of all races and nationalities who believe only they know what's going on and everyone else is just an idiot. Like I said, it comes down to not knowing what is really going on, even those idiots in their land cruisers have a story if you're only just sit down and listen and understand that there's a lot of crap going on that you probably never knew about. It would help you understand and deal with them better. And let me repeat myself I don't mean to sound "holier-than-thou", I'm saying this through the experience of having been in your shoes and then changing my own perspective on things.

And one more thing, ned Flanders did occasionally break down but it was never permenant, he lost his cool for a while and then got back to his usual ways, that my friend is exactly what you need around here. Needless to say I've met folks that have whined every single day for all 20 years that theyve lived in the region and have no intention of leaving.

"it's what you make of it"

[ssauer1930]

ex380....
You are just too funny! I love camels....except when they spit.....
Yep, the stuff I did as a nurse on a Rez was in the lower 48! It was quite an awakening to find out there is a 3rd world conditions right here in good ole USA!
Would miss Steve desperately, but not sure I would be able to stay out of jail over there- if I had to walk behind him in public I would probably give him a good kick in the arse just for old times. A letter that I could drive? Permission?? (I do understand that it is their culture, but not certain I can abide). It's damn hot over there- long sleeves:(
Seriously now- is the healthcare difficult to get GOOD care? What kind of time frame for something serious- surgery? Including GOOD/GREAT neurosurgeons? I am serious here, as I broke my neck/back in several places and do NOT want to be in a situation where I may need surgery and not have someone who is privvy to latest techniques/skills.
And the latest meds.
He can come home when he can....
I would like to experience the lifestyle for awhile just to say 'I did'...
Neuro's, healthcare, please.
Oh, I also forgot to ask:
What about a small dog- my friend who lived/taught in Saudi/Iraq had to come in through Turkey(I think), because of the strict laws bringing in a dog. I am fine with all the required health requirements, but NOT willing to risk her in any way. :=
Want very badly to see the Royal stables if ever possible (used to train Thoroughbreds).... :)):ok:
And.. do some traveling in western Europe.. my neighbor is from Switzerland- goes home frequently, so she would like me to spend time with her/kids while she is there- what a first class way to see the area!
Again- thank you- I may sound flippant but am really serious about why/what info I have been asking. Steve and I see things differently-:ugh:- just for the simple fact that he is male with full-time work potential, and I am female with either being bored to tears if I didn't work, and would like to see/work in another country's healthcare system/culture. But don't want to risk anything either. I am afraid my mouth could get me in trouble (jail), or my independent attitude... :eek:
Again, thanks...there IS a reason for all the questions.