BMI REGIONAL-2

[The Cleaner]

There's a few of us mainly interested in what's going down at BMIR. This is for us, let's hope the mods don't decide to merge us again!

So, any news? anyone?

[Van G]

Nope! Total vacuum of information. In my opinion we'll head into IAG, subject to EU approval, then who knows...

The management are still putting a granite spin on things. Unsurprising really as it would keep them in abz. Whether there's any substance to that I'm doubtful.

[Richard Taylor]

Granite Air

"But as I've reported before, there have been hopes of, and advanced talks around a Scottish-based buy-out of BMI Regional.

It's the division of the airline based in Aberdeen, which used to be Business Air, and which flies 15 commuter jets between smaller airports in the UK and on the continent.

Under the codename Granite, there has been a prolonged effort both to raise the £20m to £25m necessary to buy BMI Regional from Lufthansa before the 31 March deadline set for the IAG deal, and to persuade Lufthansa to part with it.

But the money's not there. And in the absence of a deal, the division, with more than 300 jobs, most of them in Aberdeen, will become part of IAG.

The giant air group knew there was interest from a Scottish consortium in buying Regional, but it has said nothing about its intentions for it if it was handed over with the mainstream part of BMI.

It's still not saying, but there has to be a concern about both that business and the routes it operates, as IAG certainly doesn't see its future as operating commuter jets between smaller cities."

The silence has been deafening. I wish the news was better & that the above is incorrect. Hopefully there can yet be a rabbit pulled out of the hat, but banks & institutions are reluctant to lend to anyone in these times.

It would be sad at a time when business appears to be on the up again at Aberdeen, we could lose our based airline.

[Chidken Sangwich]

I've also heard the same as above.

No money available, Regional to stay with the IAG deal and possibly dumped on Flybe to do with it what they will.

Baby = Air Contractors.

IAG / Mainline deal to be approved.

[Granite City Express]

Posted this elsewhere, thought it might be good post here as well in case anyone has any further intel (Unlikely I know, but maybe someone has spoken to the cleaners?).

Regional & Baby to be brought into the bigger IAG deal (assume the Baby discount applies and that Regional is a freebie), neither to be integrated into BA at all, and then sold off or shut down. I guess that the unions and management will start the 90 day consultation period very soon after the 20th of April.

Anyone know if Granite are still looking to buy?

[brian_dromey]

I think there is, perhaps, an opportunity for Regional to work with the new slots for EDI and ABZ to LHR under the VS banner, they will need to lease some larger equipment in the short-term, though.
That, or constructing a deal with IAG that is similar to Sun-Air, basically franchise model.
A third, extremely slim possibility, is that Regional would be integrated with city flyer, somehow. I don't think the ERJ 135/145s would remain for long, but cityFlyer has a number of ERJ-190 options it could exercise, if so desired.

[RJ100]

Re: BMIR into CFE, talking last week to the powers at the towers aka. Didsbury, BaCon was off loaded to BE for a reason and there is no desire to start regional flying again, so I very much doubt that there is a plan to incorporate BMIr into CityFlyer.
Just don't want people to get hopes up for something that was dreamt up on this forum.

[Cyrano]

I think there is, perhaps, an opportunity for Regional to work with the new slots for EDI and ABZ to LHR under the VS banner, they will need to lease some larger equipment in the short-term, though.
But what benefits does Regional bring to this scheme compared with any other operator which already has larger aircraft (let's say 737/A320) on its AOC? Regional doesn't have the right aircraft or crews, and the brand is irrelevant because it'd be Virgin.

or constructing a deal with IAG that is similar to Sun-Air, basically franchise model.

I agree that a franchise model goes a long way to solving branding issues. But it's not a panacea - you still need a workable and defensible network, as well as a motivation for the franchisor to want to be involved. It would not surprise me if there has been some element of BA cooperation (maybe not all the way to franchise) envisaged in the Granite deal - but if that can't get off the ground, why would a pure franchise proposal work, and why would BA be interested given their withdrawal from the regions?

I don't think the ERJ 135/145s would remain for long, but cityFlyer has a number of ERJ-190 options it could exercise, if so desired.

But for what? If Regional were integrated into CityFlyer, it seems fair to assume that they would no longer be operating their existing hub-feeder routes for Lufthansa. So what is left that CityFlyer would want to pick up with larger aircraft? (Alternatively: if they got the fleet for free, could CityFlyer do something else out of LCY with the E135s?)

Sorry, Brian, I don't mean to shoot you down, and I (like you) am really trying to see a good solution for the current situation - I'm just (personally) not convinced that any of the above are particularly robust alternatives. I hope that I am proven wrong.

[brian_dromey]

I agree, I don't think any of them are particularly enticing for an prospective owner. My feeling is that there may be an opportunity for either WW or Regional to work with the bearded one to utilise the LHR slots. I agree that it does not fit in with BA's stated model, but it is possible that this may have changed slightly as part of the overall IAG group.

Indeed, it is probably just as easy for VS to wet-lease some narrow bodies from somewhere, but IAG does seem to be throwing down the gauntlet in the media today.

[Skipness One Echo]

(Alternatively: if they got the fleet for free, could CityFlyer do something else out of LCY with the E135s?

I don't think they have thrust reversers on their aircaft unlike the Luxair ones we used to see, so not much.

[stab3.5up]

Please dont gang up on me guys....i just want to ask...On its own with no alliances etc how viable would bmi regional be as a stand alone airline?

[ara01jbb]

Please dont gang up on me guys....i just want to ask...On its own with no alliances etc how viable would bmi regional be as a stand alone airline?

No ganging up intended, but I've said this before, and I'll say it again. For a not unreasonable precedent regarding the fate of a small independent airline that devolves from a larger airline and develops its own brand using a fleet of thirsty regional jets, see Duo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duo_Airways).

IMHO, not as impossible as some would say, but very very risky.

[Cyrano]

Ah, Duo. :{ May God bless her and all who sailed in her.

Plus I would add that fuel prices are about twice what they were back in 2004 or so, while average yields have if anything fallen thanks to increased low-cost-carrier penetration, so the scope for profitable flying is even more reduced.

From memory, Duo's breakeven load factor on ~2 hour sectors was about 70% at £100 net yield. I would be utterly astonished if a 50-seater could come anywhere near that breakeven today.

[Deep and fast]

I have a fair number of friends at regional and would hate to see them out of work, but look at the business model.

A small regional jet that is not fuel efficient with regard to pax carried
A route network that has diminished year on year
A reliance on wet lease contracts
A small minded insular management(albeit mostly gone now) that was more interested in maintaining the Aberdeen management than real integration and cost savings that could be realised by closing the ABZ office.

The London city route is a non starter, they tried that from LBA with a wet leased turbo prop because they wouldn't operate the 135 into there. I think they gave that route about 10mins to turn a profit then pulled it.

They pulled out of Paris because mainline pulled out even though loads were good.

I could go on. As for the statement about crews not being suitable, that's rubbish, there are some really good guys there who stayed to be home every night with the family rather than go to bigger companies with airbus or Boeing fleets.

Regional management never really moved on from the high priced business ticket pax in small numbers and the rest of the industry has moved with the market in the real world.

I do hope someone with deep pockets and true vision gets hold of regional and turns it into the regional airline it deserves to be, but if Lufthansa have washed their hands of it, then I think the future is truly bleak.

[Cyrano]

As for the statement about crews not being suitable, that's rubbish, there are some really good guys there

Hi D&F, not sure if you are referring to my earlier comment about Regional not having the right aircraft and crews. All I was saying is that the crews are not type rated for the mainline aircraft which would be needed to profitably operate into LHR - not casting any aspersions on their character!

[INKJET]

The only company that could afford to play this game is one that doesn't fly into either ABZ EDI but fly from LHR that will be EK then?

[Granite City Express]

This from today's Travelmole

Virgin plans first UK domestic operation

Virgin Atlantic is planning to launch its first domestic flights if it wins 12 pairs of Heathrow slots to be relinquished by British Airways' parent IAG following its takeover of bmi.
The airline, which is calling on the European Commission to auction all 12 slots as one complete package, told the Daily Telegraph it would launch domestic flights next summer if it was successful in winning the slots.
Virgin currently holds just 3% of Heathrow's slots, while IAG will hold 51% after the bmi deal completed on April 20.
The auction process is expected to begin in several weeks and Aer Lingus is likely to be among those bidding against Virgin.


I believe that there are now some positive noises coming from the Granite organisation, with visits to the office in ABZ.Is a tie up with VS a possible way forward?

[allan1987]

Could this mean Granite and Virgin both buy together, Bmi Baby and Bmi Regional. Mabey calling the airline Virgin Lite I dont know just an idea mabey.

[toledoashley]

Are we talking a Virgin Australia/America style operation - Virgin group holds a % of the airline and leases the Virgin brand to them... As I said the other day, I could see baby involved with this, but Virginbaby isnt going to work - so maybe something plain like Virgin Regional or Virgin Britain?

[AirGuru]

Hmmm that is making me wonder toledoashley !
Virgin Britain sounds alright, and was something which i saw you mention the other day ! It could work for good old RB here, his Virgin America and Australia operations are brilliant successes, wonder if Britain would be the same ?
Besides the fact that it is absolutely tiny compared to these land giants aforementioned !

[toledoashley]

We have europe though! Surely thats big enough!

[AirGuru]

You are quite correct !

[Deep and fast]

Virgin on the impossible!

[Rougueg]

Discussions with potential buyers continue.

So very omminous.

[Flypuppy]

So very ominous

It is not as bad as you may think. There are positive moves ongoing, but the arithmetic on the planned redundancies should provide some indication that all is not as dark as you may fear.... :ok:

[Van G]

Take it by "positive" moves you mean Granite?

[quantumofcheese]

Hi all, I really want to log an ERJ but won't be able to travel until early July.

I'm looking at MAN-LHR with BMI Regional, the prices are good...but is it likely (I fear) that the aircraft will haved changed ie. BA/BMI A320 etc. by that date (c.July 2-6th?)

Any feedback would be much appreciated! :ok:

[CabinCrewe]

Timetable will operate "as is" until end of the summmer schedule, so would imagine it will be fine.

[LBIA]

bmi regional have this afternoon confirmed that it is withdrawing its long-standing 2x daily Glasgow - Leeds/Bradford route on Friday May 4th. The service has been operated by Embraer 135.

[ScotsSLF]

Aargh - its the train or car now to Leeds - wonderful! I wonder how long it is before GLA - CPH goes or is there another route in the pipeline to utlise the 135?

[tallaonehotel]

Its just been announced that bmi regional is withdrawing its long severing Leeds/Bradford to Glasgow service on Friday, May 4th. The route is currently operate 2x daily with Embrear 135 aircraft.

Loganair steps in to guarantee vital air link between Scotland and West Yorkshire

The good news is that flybe, franchise Loganair has just confirmed that its going to step and and save the link. The airline will continue to operate the service 2x daily with Saab 340 aircraft with flights commencing from Tuesday, May 8th. Loganair has also said that they will introduce a Sunday evening service from September 2nd.

[Skipness One Echo]

With GLA-LBA ending, is the GLA-CPH link on the same aircraft ending as well?

[jimbo canuck]

Seems the GLA EMB will be doing GLA-CPH-EDI-CPH-GLA on weekdays.
If EDI-LBA is ongoing, it's a bit of a strange decision as the GLA route has about double the Pax?
Jimbo

[Facelookbovvered]

Please note: Our service from Edinburgh to Leeds Bradford will be suspended on 27 April 2012.

To think they used to fill a F100 on this route:(

[nef]

I don't really understand why they're making this decision/announcement a few days before the IAG deal goes through - I would've thought at this late stage that the course to follow would be to leave everything as is and then let IAG (or any subsequent new owner) make decisions on routes etc? The very short notice before the route ends perhaps suggests a last minute decision.

[frontcheck]

I am surprised the Leeds/Bradford services have lasted as long as they have.
The loads have never been the same since the banking crisis.
The EDI/LBA should have been stopped a while ago and the aircraft used to
re-instate an early morning FRA service and even operate the evening service too. Leaving the mid-day to LH on a larger aircraft. The capacity would be roughly the same but would have offered the customer more choice of departure times.

[PeterP]

In the wings, there remains a viable alternative to this crushing negativity. Yet Lufty and IAG don't seem to be interested.
I represent some folks prepared to put forward a risky yet exciting plan. But our attempts to get the current owners to think out of the box are being ignored. Can PPruNe members assist? What an amazing outcome for this site if you could help make this happen and rescue the airline!

[Aero Mad]

Do I see two foxes in a Mooney Bravo?

[PeterP]

OK, I admit I cannot understand this response. Translation, anyone?

[Granite City Express]

Using PPRuNe to contact IAG's management?

In the unlikely event that you ever get anywhere near the management of bmi R, my resignation will follow quickly.

Is Walter Mitty one of your "folks" :rolleyes:

[STN Ramp Rat]

Travelmole (http://www.travelmole.com/news_feature.php?news_id=2001167&c=setreg&region=2)

20 April 2012
IAG gets bmi at knock down price


International Airlines Group (IAG) has completed the purchase of bmi from Lufthansa, but has been saddled with bmibaby and bmi regional.

Under the deal, Lufthansa had been trying to offload bmibaby and bmi regional before the deal went through, but has failed to do so.

In a statement this morning, British Airways' parent IAG said under the terms of the purchase agreement, it will also acquire these businesses but with a "significant" price reduction.

Some analysts believe this could be as much as £80 million off the £172.5 million price.

The discount takes into account financial liabilities and losses that IAG is taking on.

IAG confirmed today that bmibaby and bmi regional are not part of its long term plans and will not be integrated into BA.

"IAG will pursue options to exit these businesses and more details will be provided in due course," said its statement.

"The costs associated with exiting these businesses, including the impact of operating them in the short term, are expected to be offset by the price reduction."

IAG said it will update investors about the bmi integration plan at its first quater results on May 11, 2012.

by Bev Fearis

[Fairdealfrank]

Having got "lumbered" with WW and BD-reg, and saving some of the dosh that would have gone to LH, does it offer an opportunity for IAG to set up a domestic/very close overseas operation similar to the proposed "Iberia Express"?

In the absence of any buyers so far, could this be a way forward?

VS could not afford to buy BD from LH, but could it buy BD-reg from IAG (it would obviously be cheaper)?

Could a VS-owned BD-reg provide a ready made short-haul operation for VS to use the LHR slots they want for domestic routes?

[uklad007]

I would agree TDK - what would be the point, they have made every effort to pull out of regional operations in recent years - they have their domestic flights into Heathrow (whenever i fly on one they are close to or are full) to serve London and their onward connections.
Iberia with Iberia express is operating in a different market (although i would have thought just buying out the rest of Vueling it doesnt own might have been easier if possible vs setting up another airline and dealing with the cost of industrial disputes) - its a bigger country land mass with more airports to cover over a wider area, there are islands to feed and serve, and they have more competition in their home turf domestic wise from their main bases - BA at present has no competition domestic from LHR and from LGW whilst there is some competition on domestic - it owns part of one of them - Flybe. As for the near europe - Easyjet covers that cheaper alternative (along with a slew of other airlines ) at LGW and BMI itself tried cheaper product offering at LHR and it didnt work.
Notwithstanding all of this - BMI Regional have the wrong aircraft for any major impact at LHR and WW have the wrong fleet mix for BA at LHR (LGW - maybe!)

If VS did get the slots I am sure they would want brand new aircraft and style it like Virgin America - why bother buying an airline with the wrong setup for the job - although in my honest opinion the limitations of where they can fly to and lack of possibility to easily expand - i can only see this as a big P&L cost to them.

[Kittiwake]

International Airlines Group, the parent company of British Airways, yesterday finalised its £172.5 million purchase of BMI from Lufthansa and confirmed plans to integrate the heavily loss-making airline into BA's operations.

But it said that BMI Regional and low-cost airline bmibaby "are not part of IAG's long-term plans". It added in a statement: "IAG will pursue options to exit these businesses and more details will be provided in due course."

Lufthansa had tried to dispose of both bmibaby and BMI Regional prior to the sale but failed to secure a buyer, prompting union concerns yesterday for the future of around 800 staff at both airlines.

However, a group of investors known as Granite is understood to be close to finalising a deal to buy BMI Regional, which flies from Glasgow, Aberdeen and Edinburgh to a number of UK and European airports.

The consortium nearly reached a deal late last year which fell through after one of the backers pulled out, a source said. "They're about 95% there. There have been hopes raised in the past but there is a new investor in place," the source added.

The consortium is being led by Ian Woodley and Graeme Ross, who founded Business Air before it was sold to British Midland in 1996 and changed its name to BMI Regional. Another key player is Robert Sturman, who was chief executive of British World Airlines for a decade.

Last week, IAG warned that the takeover of BMI was likely to lead to up to 1200 job losses.

[JAR]

This Granite?

Free company financial check on GRANITE INVESTORS (FUND 1) LLP. Free company accounts. Companies House information (http://companycheck.co.uk/company/SO301383)

[Kittiwake]

Don't think so, previous posts mention "Granite Aviation Limited". Company's House show number as 07690154 but that is just trolling, NOT confirmed.

Free company financial check on GRANITE AVIATION LIMITED. Free company accounts. Companies House information (http://companycheck.co.uk/company/07690154)

Same link as yours, different company but the directors are the same as the press release.

[Richard Taylor]

Local press also had the story, again mentioned a new investor in place & hopeful that Messrs Woodley, Ross & Sturman with their backers can conclude by month's end.

[uklad007]

From what I read Granite were struggling to get financing together for whatever price Lufthy were trying to sell Regional for. If I were BA I would just sell it for a nominal price (or a price at least Granite can afford) as this would actual benefit BA - 1) they got a price reduction to take Regional in their BMI deal already 2) it would mean BA can offload quickly and focus it's attention on other matters 3) it means BA has fewer redundancy costs if it's only other plan is to sadly close it 4) it means BA doesn't get bad press this way (or less bad press at least) as jobs will be saved through a deal and the business hopefully could grow under leadership that wants to run a regional airline.
I hope a deal is made for regional and it's employees.

[MaxRange120]

IAG's Walsh 'Not Confident' On bmi Unit Sale


British Airways and Iberia owner IAG will struggle to sell two loss-making subsidiaries it inherited through the acquisition of Lufthansa's UK unit bmi, IAG's chief executive Willie Walsh said on Monday.
IAG last year agreed a GBP£172.5 million (USD$277.6 million) deal to buy bmi but last week said it had received a discount for taking on bmi's loss-making low-cost and regional divisions.
Walsh said IAG was in talks with potential buyers but that a sale was far from certain.
"I'm not confident (about a sale), no. These are airlines that Lufthansa struggled to sell but we are going to make an effort to sell them," Walsh told reporters at London's Heathrow airport.
"We've made clear from the very beginning that regional and bmibaby don't form part of IAG's plans."
Bmi comprises three under-performing businesses: a traditional airline serving Europe, the Middle East and Africa; bmi regional, serving the UK; and low-cost unit bmibaby.
IAG said bmi's mainline operation would be integrated into British Airways, putting some 1,200 jobs at risk, while bmibaby and regional would be sold off or shut down.
Walsh said prized Heathrow take-off and landing slots that came with the acquisition of bmi would help IAG expand further into the Asian market, but warned that integrating the business into British Airways would take time.
"Bmi is a huge loss making company. If you look at the losses that bmi has had, a lot of work is going to need to be done to restructure that business," Walsh said.

(Reuters)

IAG's Walsh 'Not Confident' On bmi Unit Sale (http://news.airwise.com/story/view/1335190857.html)

'BA paid just £20 million for BMI', claims report - www.travelweekly.co.uk (http://www.travelweekly.co.uk/Articles/2012/04/23/40273/ba+paid+just+20+million+for+bmi+claims+report.html)

[LGS6753]

He's busily 'managing expectations'.

Making it look hard to sell Regional, then miraculously doing a deal makes him look good to the public, the Scottish establishment, Regional employees, the City and IAG shareholders.

Standard practice.

[Aero Mad]

Quite possibly although I just don't believe that he got BMI for £20m; even after such sustained and heavy financial losses I'm not sure Lufty would fall for that.

[EastMids]

If I were BA I would just sell it for a nominal price (or a price at least Granite can afford) as this would actual benefit BA

I don't think it's quite as simple as that... Anyone could offer to take Regional off BA's hands for a nominal price, but the men from the ministry (CAA) will require the potential new owners to be suitable to hold an AOC and that they have sufficient funding in place to secure the operation. If Granite can't jump that second hurdle in particular (the former maybe being easier if post holders remain in place) I think any offer they make is unlikely to succeed.

[Van G]

British Airways owner International Consolidated Airlines Group was one of the day's biggest fallers in a market that slumped dramatically after a new front opened in the eurozone crisis.

The airline lost 9.2p to 162.6p on concerns about some of the businesses it acquired with its acquisition of bmi from Lufthansa. It was originally set to pay £172.5m but received a discount as it also took on bmi's loss-making low-cost and regional businesses after Lufthansa failed to sell them separately.

Willie Walsh, the airline's chief executive, said it was in talks with potential buyers of the businesses, but he was not confident of a sale. Analysts at Deutsche Bank said they would have preferred it if the low cost carrier - bmi baby - and the regional business had been sold by Lufthansa as they would now take up BA management time. Deutsche's Geof Collyer said:

Nevertheless we believe the deal price reduction will cover financial costs of shut-down (redundancy payments, existing contract renegotiation and passenger compensation.)

IAG expects this to be completed by the year end and in our view it is crucial these businesses are wound down quickly so as to minimise drag to BA.

British Airways owner IAG drops on bmi concerns, while FTSE slumps on renewed eurozone fears | Business | guardian.co.uk (http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/marketforceslive/2012/apr/23/iag-bmi-ftse-eurozone?newsfeed=true)

[top9un]

Willie Wash.....
while bmibaby and regional would be sold off or shut down.

"I'm not confident (about a sale), no.

hmmm....

[Artie Fufkin]

I don't think it's quite as simple as that... Anyone could offer to take Regional off BA's hands for a nominal price, but the men from the ministry (CAA) will require the potential new owners to be suitable to hold an AOC and that they have sufficient funding in place to secure the operation. If Granite can't jump that second hurdle in particular (the former maybe being easier if post holders remain in place) I think any offer they make is unlikely to succeed.

Succinctly put, and exactly why "Regional for £1" unfortunately can't happen.

Here's hoping Granite can put funding in place to convince CAA.

[davidjohnson6]

Profit (or loss) for a single part of a group of companies is a rather subjective matter. There are all kinds of things an accountant can do to make the figures look better or worse . An example of this might be where aircraft maintenance is performed centrally with the cost recharged to the various subsidiaries - charge too high and the maintenance subsidiary makes an unfair profit and the aircraft operationgs look loss making. Charge too low and the reverse is true.
An alternative way of fiddling the figures is having one company in a group doing all the external leasing, and charging artifically high or low lease rates (call it "management fees") to the other subsidiaries. Perhaps instead the head office cost code charges marketing fees for running the sales operation and handing over only part of the cash to the part of the business doing the flying ? Who's *really* making the profit or loss ? Can all get very murky and difficult to decipher....

Does anyone have some profit / loss figures showing how bmi regional would look if it were operated on a standalone basis ?

[Rougueg]

Thanks to BBC News.

BBC News - BA owner IAG doubts it can sell BMI Baby and Regional (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17817981)


So its now or never for Granite or anyone else.

[frontcheck]

Whilst it is difficult to say if or by how much Regional contributed to the bottom line, Bmi did provide the majority of the behind the scenes functions, which no doubt helped Regional appear to make a profit of break even. It would be interesting to see the figures if they had to stand alone.

[jerboy]

BMI Regional were responsible for 0% of BMI's GBP£172.5 million losses

Ahh, so that's why people are queuing out the door to buy it then...

Profit (or loss) for a single part of a group of companies is a rather subjective matter.

Quite, however no matter how the books are cooked the fact remains that whilst companies have looked at baby and Regional's books, most have simply walked away. There seems to be only one "serious" offer... From a company with less cash in the bank than my cat.

Of course it could all be delaying tactics by LH/IAG (none of us here know what's going on behind the scenes), but it honestly doesn't look bright for WW/Regional :(

[Rivet Joint]

Listen, I don't purport to be an expert but with the greatest will in the World no one can turn a profit using 50 seat RJ's. Even the regionals in America are getting rid of these blackholes.

The bottom line therefore is that whoever takes this on will need to invest in a new fleet sharpish. Something the biggest airline in Europe was not prepared to do, not to mention that 'Granite' evidently don't even have the 2 pennies to rub together that BA would take for it.

Good luck to all the staff though, I hope something comes up :hmm:

[Capt. G L Walker]

Most AOC's have a worth beyond the ability to generate cash in the short term. Mrs Walker :ok: told me an organisation that takes pleasure in dismantling crippled companies, has an excellent track record of asset stripping and can only employ staff who have no where else to turn might find that if it waits long enough the whole thing will fall into its lap..

[routemargo]

IAG did not pay a discounted price for taking on Regional. The discount was for taking on Baby.:ugh: FACT:

IAG - International Airlines Group - News Release (http://www.iagshares.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=240949&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1642160&highlight=)

[Facelookbovvered]

I think the IAG deal was announced after Lufthansa thought it had sold bmi regional so not sure what if any? the non sale will have on the price IAG paid Lufthansa

I suspect that the Granite deal will be done before month end, all the more so if they got it for nothing.

Where it goes from there will be very interesting, life as an independent airline is bound to be a challenge, my guess would be some shrinkage back to Scotland, can the likes of FRA & BRU work outside of STAR or will they become a STAR partner?

Good luck to all who sail in her

[thebayflyer]

BBC News - BA owner IAG doubts it can sell BMI Baby and Regional (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17817981)

[taxi_driver]

With an expensive to run fleet, a high-ish wage bill, a declining, mostly domestic route network, and stripped of its parents brand, it isn't really worth anything.

Like an old car, it has reached a point when breaking it for component parts, will realise more cash than trying to sell it as a whole. There is some residual value in elements of it - aircraft, spares, route licences etc. But as a whole it is effectively worthless.

[HZ123]

Sadly 'Taxi' has got directly to the heart of the matter. There are a long line of regionals' that have gone bust in the past !

I do hope that the staff fair better than many before. All to often it is to easy to forget them and the stress and heart ache that months of not knowing causes.

One or 2 threaders are a little glib at times, though I am sure that those of us within aviation do care about our colleagues who ever they work for !

[Skipness One Echo]

They will remain trading as BMI Regional? Confusing for the customer with full page BA adverts telling that BMI will be part of BA. This feels like Duo all over again.

[TSR2]

So not quite the gloomy picture some here are proffering although Granite will require a solid business plan to take the company forward from it's present model which is outdated and probably not sustainable as has been correctly pointed out.

I sincerely hope you are right but unfortunately in this day and age, a new owner often means reduced T&C's.

[taxi_driver]

Have a few friends in Regional, better for it not to fail, but a hard commercial reality exists.

It will need circa £150k+ a day just to stand still, fuel, wages, handling, admin, training, landings, route charges, spares, leases etc etc

Its an unwanted ginger stepchild, the fallout from a messy divorce.

Its competitors have lower cost bases, a more diversified business model and made fundamental changes several years ago to stay in shape and fit for the future.

The only people interested can't put together a credible offer. I only hope the delays are a late attempt to aquire it for nothing, taking on its debts, liabilities and a bag of cash from future ticket sales, which might just give it a glimmer of hope. The noises coming out of BA indicate its destined for the scrapyard.

[routemargo]

TAXI

I'm sure you "friends" in Regional appreciate your kind words.

Haven't we seen this Weasel before? Look at his previous posts and you can see he works for Eastern. His agenda then becomes clear.

TDK seems very well informed. My money's on his "wild speculation"

[taxi_driver]

Kind words don't help anyone - No amount of pretending or dreaming changes the harsh commercial realities that bmir finds itself in. Discussing it on here changes nothing, except perhaps helping people to think about where their future lies.

The grim reality is quite probably the dole queue, legal minimum redundancy payments, and some jack the lad ringing you up months later offering you a job flying the same aircraft for a 30% paycut.

I've spent 30 years flying for regional airlines in the uk. The list of startups, takeovers, mergers, buyouts is long, the list of those still in business is short.

When the top man at BA starts to cast doubt, in public, then it really is time to wake up and face reality.

[routemargo]

30 years and you've wound up in Eastern. mmm:hmm:

We've had a few people leave us and end up in Eastern. They didn't leave by choice.;)

[taxi_driver]

You think I have any great loyalty for my current employer, think again, the 30% paycut and phone call from Jack the lad was my own bitter experience when Flightline went under.

My very limited flying for regional was in 146's on the German routes, many years ago. I think that is the same time warp where the Granite mob think they are.

Seriously, management will tell you anything, just to keep you at the controls right up until the last flight runs. They don't want all the crew leaving when they've commited to running the schedule for the next 3 months. Then, kaboom, letters and legal minimum redundancy, bus fare home, mind how you go.

I sincerely hope that things turn out well, but there are too many people running around with a head full of fairy stories, a dose of reality is needed.

[pinhammond]

It seems that all bmi companies were losing fortunes. It seems very unlikely that baby or regional will find buyers because no one will waste the money on such pointless ventures. When LH has a closure fune of £80 million pounds and that still does not attract buyers you know that the for sale items are wrecks.

[crewmeal]

taxi_driver - you're so right. That's exactly what happened at Duo, only the top nob then secured a senior position with Qatar. The rest went round the "aviation job centres" looking for jobs.

[Montezuma]

Apparently IAG are no longer in discussion with Granite!

[Jenson Button]

Montezuma- would you care to elaborate ?

[deecie]

I have a flight booked with bmi Regional booked for early next year, and I got an email today saying my schedule had changed along with the new details.

The only difference I could see is that the flight now shows as "operated by: LUFTHANSA" instead, anybody shed any light on this?

The flight is ABZ-LHR

Cheers.

[Alberville]

deecie -

bmi regional have never operated ABZ-LHR.

[Montezuma]

JB, delighted dear boy.

The 145s will be replaced with A380s: the routes to Germany will be full low cost, whilst the new routes from every where in Scotland will be codeshared with a Mid East carrier and each 380 will be fitted with 100 first class suites, each with their own shower and private sitting room. The routes from airports south of Hadrian's Wall will be transferred to a new carrier, Midland, and run in to the ground.

In a word.....................NO.

Apologies for the sarcasm.

[deecie]

deecie -

bmi regional have never operated ABZ-LHR. My ticket claims it is(was)...

http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums/cc405/theoldbeachend/flight.jpg

[CaptainDoony]

As it says on the ticket regional operate FOR British Midland. Regional don't own any slots at LHR. Instead bmi chooses to have full ERJs of regional running into LHR rather than 1/3 full A319s. Hope this clears things up :)

[Skipness One Echo]

My ticket claims it is(was)...
Operating for BMI mainline, under a "Midland" callsign, Regional's is "Kittiwake" nowadays.

[deecie]

As it says on the ticket regional operate FOR British Midland. Regional don't own any slots at LHR. Instead bmi chooses to have full ERJs of regional running into LHR rather than 1/3 full A319s. Hope this clears things up

Nope, not really :) But I do appreciate the effort :ok:

[Richard Taylor]

To be honest, what appears on a ticket 11mths from now on a route that very likely won't be operated by bmi, Regional or any combination thereof is not very important in the greater scheme of things.

If BA are no longer talking to 'Granite' as is suggested above, then that is worrying - unless there is another game in town.

If not, then what is the point of BA, having said Regional doesn't feature in its plans, not selling it to someone that puts in a reasonable offer to take it off its hands? What has BA got to lose? If Granite has the funding which supposedly it now has with a new investor, then BA should gladly sell & let's see if the Granite team can run & develop Regional...it's not exactly as if BA & Regional would be in direct competition?

Airline politics...don'tcha just love it! :suspect:

[davidjohnson6]

I imagine that BA as a large company with a high public profile will want the sale of both baby and regional to be reasonably above board. Anyone with fifty quid can go to Companies House and form a new Ltd company. Anyone can pay a pound to BA for some assets. This alone will lead to tears in the not too distant future.

The company buying bmir or baby has to be credible - not only to the CAA but also to BA who will wish to ensure employees are not completely shafted by a rogue cowboy who wants only to strip the remaining assets for a fast buck. That means a clear and sensible business plan with an experienced managememt team who have plenty of cash in the bank to staunch initial losses.

It may well be better to be given formal redundancy than work at the risk of not getting paid. Those working for regional and baby now at least know their position clearly and have between 3 and 6 months to do something about it.

Anyone up for retraining into a different career by starting at evening classes at a local college or the Open University ? Gain some transferrable skills and with something on which to fall back, things are likely to be less painful in the future.

[HZ123]

Cost more than a pound as a wedge of pension will need to be payed to the buyer.

[Enecosse]

baby and regional have defined contribution pension plans.

[EastMids]

If BA are no longer talking to 'Granite' as is suggested above, then that is worrying - unless there is another game in town. If not, then what is the point of BA, having said Regional doesn't feature in its plans, not selling it to someone that puts in a reasonable offer to take it off its hands? What has BA got to lose?

Whilst the bmi companies already hold AOCs, a change of ownership will trigger interest from the CAA. The impediments to selling BMIR and/or baby to "anyone who comes along" include the following, from the CAA website:

Finance
Before a Type A Operating Licence is granted, airlines must demonstrate that they have enough funding for the first two years of operation. Once a licence is granted, the CAA will in most cases continue to monitor their finances and may revoke the licence of any licence holder that it considers no longer has sufficient resources to carry on its business. Further details of what is required from different types of air operator after a licence is granted are set out in Licensing Airlines in the UK

Financial Resources
15. Article 5.1 of the Licensing Regulation requires that an applicant for an Operating Licence must be able to demonstrate that it can meet its obligations, established under realistic assumptions, for the first 24 months of its operation; and that it can meet its costs for the first three months of operation without any income. Article 5.2 specifies the information which must be provided for the licensing authority to reach a decision on these criteria. Article 5.3 makes an exception for operators of aircraft with less than 20 seats or 10 tonnes maximum take-off weight, who may instead either demonstrate a minimum capitalisation or supply information to the licensing authority on being requested to do so.

17. For operations using larger aircraft, the CAA requires applicants to provide a business plan for the first two years of operation and considers this to decide how much capital is necessary to meet the criteria set out in Article 5.1. It looks critically at forecast traffic, revenue and costs in the light of information on similar routes or operations, taking into account the existence of contracts and the degree of risk involved. Before reaching a final view, it discusses with the applicant any aspects where it believes the forecasts are optimistic. It then adjusts them if appropriate and indicates a figure for capitalisation which is intended to ensure that there will be a surplus of net assets and sufficient cash resources during the first two years of operation. The CAA will grant an Operating Licence only when the necessary financial arrangements have been executed and the other criteria have been met.

Financial Monitoring and Regulation
24. Article 8 of the Licensing Regulation requires operators to notify licensing authorities of changes to their operation and, if requested to do so, to supply revised business plans. Article 9 gives licensing authorities the power to suspend or revoke a licence if they are no longer satisfied that the holder can meet its financial obligations for the next 12 months. In the UK, decisions by the CAA are subject to published procedures and to appeal to the Secretary of State, as set out in the CAA Regulations7 [7].

25. The Licensing Regulation leaves it to the discretion of licensing authorities how far they should regulate an operator’s finances after an Operating Licence has been granted, and the extent to which the CAA intervenes in the finances of licensed airlines varies according to the category of business. It does so chiefly where there is a consumer protection issue, and where it has the ability to influence events so as to benefit the operator’s customers; there is also an issue of materiality, with the potential benefits set against the costs of monitoring.

27. The CAA monitors the financial performance and position of most other operators, and may in certain circumstances take action to revoke an Operating Licence. Its objective in doing so is primarily to secure a better outcome for the travelling public, and revocation will in many cases not have this effect: revoking a licence will turn a potential failure into an actual failure and may lead to losses on the part of ticket holders and disruption to passengers’ travel plans. However, revocation or suspension may still achieve a benefit if it minimises the effects of an inevitable failure, and this may happen where a charter operator’s licence is revoked outside the peak season or a scheduled operator’s licence is revoked so as to prevent planned expansion. These principles are behind the extent to which the CAA may require more detailed information from certain types of operator at particular times, such as prior to major expansions.

[Van G]

So a business plan and finance required for 2 years. The first 3 months financed assuming no income. The longer time goes on the less convinced I am this will be met by granite.

Also willy's latest mumblings are less than encouraging. I'm afraid I see the positive talk about a buyout of regional as nothing more than management spin. Good luck to all my fantastic colleagues, it's been a pleasure. Shame we have to rely on the bbc for information about our future.

[Deep and fast]

Shame we have to rely on the bbc for information about our future.

it was never any different! :ugh:

good luck to all the troops :uhoh:

D and F :8

[EastMids]

So a business plan and finance required for 2 years. The first 3 months financed assuming no income.

BMIR already holds an AOC, so rather than that I suspect the following is more likely to be what the CAA will be looking for in any new owner of the airline:

24. Article 8 of the Licensing Regulation requires operators to notify licensing authorities of changes to their operation and, if requested to do so, to supply revised business plans. Article 9 gives licensing authorities the power to suspend or revoke a licence if they are no longer satisfied that the holder can meet its financial obligations for the next 12 months.

So any new owner is likely to have to not only find the price BA is asking, but also satisfy the CAA that the airline will be financially sound for at least a year.

Andy

[The Cleaner]

Quote from WW reported in Belfast telegraph today.

"There has been one interested party in talks and two expressions of interest so far in bmi Regional and there are three interested parties in bmibaby, with one new party coming on board for talks in the last few days.



Read more: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/business-news/ba-boss-flights-tax-could-put-belfast-to-heathrow-at-risk-16150742.html#ixzz1tE74zHcr

[Granite City Express]

What I am hearing is that Granite have virtually completed the deal and that by early next week they will be taking control.

Graham Ross has been in the offices alot recently as well.

[Van G]

I've heard that the deal has been on the verge of completion for months....:hmm:

Lets see what next week brings...(repeat next friday)

May I ask your source?

[GAXLN]

BBC News - BMI Regional sale talks advance (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-17867408)

[nef]

....could keep the BMI brand.....

Sounds like a recipe for confusion imo. Why keep a potentially damaged brand that many pax will presume no longer exists after the IAG takeover?

I'm sure it's better that the Granite deal goes through, but there must still be questions over what they plan to do with bmir. When they first got involved there were claims in the press of "Scottish" branding and expansion in cooperation with other unnamed N European airlines. Now we're hearing that they want to call themselves bmi!

What are they going to do at the end of the summer when they no longer have to do any flying for mainline? What about the flights for SN and others? It would seem that at the end of the summer season they're going to have a lot of aircraft with nothing to do. I wonder if under Granite, instead of expansion we could see the airline shrink dramatically to a handful of routes out of ABZ subsidised by the oil industry?

[Granite City Express]

May I ask your source?
It's a rumour network, but corridor conversations with managers can be revealing. Sometimes for the things they DON'T say!!!

[Van G]

Thanks. Well we'll see in the next couple of weeks. Forgive my pessimism only I've heard that before :bored:

[Granite City Express]

VanG, I know exactly what you mean. The "announcement on Friday" mantra has been appalling. The lack of information from Donington Hall incredible, even management levels have been mushroomed.

I only hope that the Granite team get the hint and actually start talking to the troops. It would be a novel approach after the past years of being kept in the dark.

[FANS]

I only hope that the Granite team get the hint and actually start talking to the troops.

I understand your frustrations, but it would be better if they actually got themselves in a position to be able the sign the deal. BA/IAG are unlikely to allow them to speak to the workforce until the deal is signed or very close.

[Skipness One Echo]

This is surely heart over head stuff. Mr Woodley sold his baby years ago and now is getting involved to try and stop it being closed down and not for primary commercial reasons that a.n. other investor would look at. The airline world has moved a long way from the mid 90s.
I know Scott Grier did something similar with Loganair when it was merged into British Regional but Loganair is pretty much where is always has been in a world that hasn't changed all that much.

[Enecosse]

Think you are right, anyone who gets involved in running an airline is essentially a romantic......how to make a small fortune, start with a big one, stand in a strong wind ripping up 50 quid notes spring to mind.
If Granite take on regional it will be very interesting to see how they plan on developing it.
In the Biz Air days they had Saab's flying 15 hours a day and I am not sure they ever made a meaningful profit if at all. Mail bags in an EMB isn't going to work, the regional airline model has (for the moment at least) been definitively defined by FlyBe.

[Enecosse]

I know IW and GR (not the other fella), they are competent and decent people. I don't know anything about running an airline, however even for a lay person it is difficult to see how regional can continue to run and make enough money to survive in its present format. Carrying half a dozen people down to Norwich a couple of times a day doesn't work.
It is going to be interesting to see what they have in mind. I agree with the previous poster, while I am no expert, they should look at alot more wet/damp lease work and cherry pick the present scheduled routes.
Just as an absurd aside (this is rumourville), I wonder why there is talk on keeping the bmi name, perhaps SMB just can't stay away (the aviation draw) and needs to spend some of his millions.
The main thing is that it all doesn't go down the pan....good luck

[macdo]

You are quite right that FlyBe have defined how a regional airline should operate, but,a) their own finances are pretty poor at the moment, and b) the T&C's for the crews are pretty poor even by regional airline standards. It would seem an easier option to let BR fold and start again from scratch if Mr W et al. wish to be in the Scottish regional airline game again. Unless, of course, there is any incentive from the Scottish government to save the existing outfit.
I suspect that Lord Glendonbrook will have other fish to fry by now:ooh:

[buildaburger]

Bmi is over
blow out the candles and lock the door behind you.

ps
Don't forget to post the keys through the letterbox:p

[JimNich]

macdo

a) True, the regional game is a tough one and I think anyone struggles to make money out of it.

b) Not true. Just looked at PPJN, Flybe's Ts & Cs are just a little under BMIRs for the turboprop and about the same if not a little better on the Ejits. Pension contribution from the company is better. Duty pay the same and leave entitlement about the same.

Why the dig?:confused:

[Van G]

BA calls on adviser to step down - FT.com (http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/45407dc4-9065-11e1-8cdc-00144feab49a.html#axzz1tTAOw9F3)

BA calls on adviser to step down

British Airways has asked Lord Jones of Birmingham to step down from his advisory role at the company after joining the board of regional airline Flybe, because of potential conflicts of interest.

The UK flag-carrier’s concerns highlight its increased exposure to short- and medium-haul routes following its purchase of BMI. BA had originally assured Lord Jones, a former trade minister and CBI director-general, that a directorship at the Exeter-based regional airline on top of his role as chairman of BA’s international business advisory board would not constitute a conflict of interest.

But it changed that position last week, days after its parent company International Airlines Group completed a deal to buy lossmaking BMI and its constituent regional and low-cost airlines – both of which IAG had hoped would be sold separately.

“While there is no particular conflict, they just think it’s too close for comfort,” said Lord Jones. His position at the company was unpaid and due to finish at the end of this year.

IAG holds 14 per cent of Flybe shares. But the concerns appear to have less to do with that stake than with possible overlapping markets, and suggest IAG holds little hope of selling both BMIbaby and BMI Regional in the immediate future. It is expected to close them if it cannot find buyers.

The company’s main interest in BMI, which made pre-tax losses of €181m under Lufthansa last year, was its take-off and landing slots at Heathrow airport, many of which BA hopes to use for high-margin long-haul routes to emerging markets, particularly in Asia. Still, BA is integrating BMI’s mainline operations, including about 1,500 workers, and intends to continue flying some BMI routes for the long term.

“We’re keen to strengthen our regional network in the UK,” said a BA spokesman last week, referring to routes between London and the regions. While Flybe has some slots at Gatwick airport, it overlaps little with BA and BMI mainline flights. But it does compete with BMI’s smaller regional and budget airlines.

Analysts at Liberum estimate that a BMIbaby closure would add £37m to Flybe’s top line and £6m of incremental earnings before interest, tax, depreciation, amortisation and aircraft rent.

Lord Jones said on Friday that “BA is a great airline and I fly them a hell of a lot and I’m sure we’ll stay very much in touch”.

Andrew Crawley, BA’s commercial director, said: “Digby [Jones] has been a great supporter of British Airways and a formidable chairman of our International Business Advisory Board. I’d like to thank him for his valuable contribution and wish him every success.”




Wonder why BA would bother asking for this advisor to step down due to a conflict of interest (also working for Flybe) if they were going to dispatch of bmi regional in the next few weeks?

[macdo]

No dig intended, just observation. My impression is that FlyBe had embraced the race to the bottom, my personal experience was that working for BMR was a better experience than being at FlyBe, backed up by multiple threads on PPRUNE complaining about the working conditions at FlyBe and the amount of people trying to leave. The main point was that if you want to run a Scottish Regional airline successfully, it would probably be as well to take the most successful business plan and start from scratch, without carrying any baggage from the past. This, of course, will suit the 'suits' and accountants, but will be to the detriment of the staff. Finally, a question mark hangs heavily over whether or not a Scottish Regional carrier is viable at all in the economic climate that we now enjoy. History is littered with failed regional airlines.
Once again, no dig is intended at anyone, I spent some of the best years of my career working up in the Highlands and wish all the staff the best of luck.

[Set 1013]

Van G you read my mind.

Is BMIR about to be palmed off to BE with a golden handshake just the same as BaCon was?

This is the rumour I hear in BE at the moment.

[Van G]

I saw a Flybe aircraft today in Brussels Airlines colours...

Also, Flybe seem to be making a move on baby routes. Maybe this is why this advisor was asked to step down. Though its a fairly obvious coordinated 'attack' by IAG/Flybe.

[G-AWZK]

IAG in it's various forms and stakeholdings will eventually have a complete stranglehold on British aviation. In some ways we should be thankful that BA let GO drift off into the Orange sunset, otherwise they would probably have dominated the Lo Co market as well.

It is probably much more difficult now, to start a UK based airline than it was in the era of BA being a state run enterprise...

[Deep and fast]

Brussels airlines have given notice on bmir's two wet leased aircraft serving bru from Bristol and Newcastle. That means they finish at the end of the summer schedule unless they do a last minute u turn.

D and F :8

[Spitfire boy]

To lure pax away from bmir and bmibaby :ugh:

Travelmole (http://www.travelmole.com/news_feature.php?m_id=~AvT_dbT_&w_id=7789&news_id=2001327)

03 May 2012
Flybe offers alternative to Heathrow
Flybe will offer five new routes from East Midlands next winter, flying to Amsterdam, Paris CDG, Edinburgh, Glasgow and Jersey and basing two aircraft at the airport for the first time.
It said today it was still finalising schedules and frequencies with the airport for travel from October 28 to March 30.
Flybe said the new routes to Amsterdam and Paris CDG would plug into international flights from the major hubs, providing passengers based in the East Midlands with an alternative to London Heathrow.

[stormin norman]

If Flybe can pick up the pieces it will.

IAG still has a foot hold in Flybe so will offload if the finances make sense keeping the price reduction for the BMI purchase in the IAG coffers.

[Granite City Express]

Strikes me that the whole sales process of Baby & Regional has stitch up written all over it.

There was an article in the Sunday Times that said that flyBE would benefit significantly if both baby and regional were to disappear. Is Willy Walsh that machevallian? Ultimately the benfit would flow back into IAG through their shareholding.

IAG really have managed to get the deal of the century in this, but at the cost of how many jobs?

[Little Blue]

GCE...

I think the term 'hit the nail on the head' has never been more apt...

Leaving hundreds of baby/bmir staff high and dry. :ugh:

[JimNich]

I understand the strength of feeling that must be prevalent at both Baby and Regional, so its not surprising that some feel the need to lash out. However. a few points to note:

The Sunday Times chappie was probably quite right in his analysis, but of course this would be true for any airline in the regional sector. Whatever happens to one of your competitors will have a direct result on those remaining, that goes without saying. The fact that he reported it as unique to this case goes a long way to describing the sort of inflammatory journalism we see these days.

Flybe will have had absolutely zero do to with whether Baby is sold or not. The truth remains that Lufty couldn't sell it, even when it was positively in their very best interest to do so. BA/IAG inherited it, and as someone else on these forums quite rightly pointed out, are not known for sympathetic business solutions. They will have looked at the best option FOR THEM and put it into action, harsh, but common business practice. Call it a stitch-up if you like but I believe that's a gross over-simplification. I can't even guess what went on behind closed doors, stranger than fiction probably.

This has nothing to do with Regional, that particular scenario is still to play out (as has Baby's), I have no knowledge or insight as to possible outcomes. I see no reason why it could not thrive as a stand alone enterprise.

Anyway, the very best of luck to all involved.

[Van G]

OK so what's the latest?

Everytime there's negative news from Willie it's responded to by some positive spin which I'm sure is leaked from Aberdeen. Who do we believe?

The deal hasn't been completed by the end of April which was the latest carrot dangled.

Are Flybe involved in this rather than Granite? Wouldn't it be better for BA to let a competitor to Flybe/their shorthaul network get shut down?

Conversely, wouldn't it be better for Granite to let us get shut down and then just pick up the (desirable) pieces for free?

Has another investor pulled out? (latest RUMOUR I've heard)

In the absence of any solid information and with recent events the rumours are going to snowball...

My deepest sympathies to the baby guys and gals, I hope they can at least start planning their futures based on more certain details of their present position. Just wonder when the news will hit our doorsteps, whatever it is.

[Granite City Express]

Have heard that things are moving in the right direction for Granite and that they are talking to the CC. The CC are keen work with Granite to keep things going to make sure there are no job losses.

The SN Brussels contract has not got management to phased so they must have something up their sleeve to replace it.

[Van G]

Ok well that's two planes that need work. What about the 5 that will leave heathrow. And what about the airbus contract...

They better have a very very good plan to utilise all those aircraft on routes that hitherto havent been discovered and saturated.

I hope we don't lose our jobs obviously. But I also take any news from Aberdeen with a fistful of salt. They are obviously, and understandably, pushing granite like there's no tomorrow. It would secure their jobs at their base. But determined wishful thinking doesn't mean secure jobs.

Hope I'm proved wrong.

[Van G]

Incidentally there is a BA/IAG shareholders update due next Friday. I just wonder if they would like to have made a decision on regional by then so they can tell the shareholders what the plan is...

[Kittiwake]

From the BBC

"
In addition, FlyBe is set for a role in the possible takeover of the BMI Regional division, based in Aberdeen.
Sources close to the negotiations have told BBC Scotland that the division, which flies more than 15 commuter jets between smaller city airports, is close to a sale by IAG to a consortium known as Granite Aviation.
But whereas it had planned to create a new Scottish airline, or to take over the BMI brand, it is understood the talks have shifted towards a plan that would see the new firm flying as part of the FlyBe network.
That would bring the advantage of FlyBe's marketing and ticketing arrangements, with links into the IAG network."

Comments.......

[Artic Monkey]

Do you have a link Kittywake?

That's great for regional, we don't want any more people losing their jobs. I wonder what will happen to the seniority list should we "merge" with regional? A combining will cause alot of hate, that much I know.

[PAXboy]

Independent regional airlines are last century. It's alliances and franchises that will help them through and linking with Flybe is a fast way to get started.

[Skipness One Echo]

In addition, FlyBe is set for a role in the possible takeover of the BMI Regional division, based in Aberdeen.
Sources close to the negotiations have told BBC Scotland that the division, which flies more than 15 commuter jets between smaller city airports, is close to a sale by IAG to a consortium known as Granite Aviation.
But whereas it had planned to create a new Scottish airline, or to take over the BMI brand, it is understood the talks have shifted towards a plan that would see the new firm flying as part of the FlyBe network.
That would bring the advantage of FlyBe's marketing and ticketing arrangements, with links into the IAG network."

They're being flogged to Loganair?

[Cyrano]

They're being flogged to Loganair?

No, the way I read that is that they are going to become a flyBE franchisee in the same way that Loganair is, not that there is any ownership link to Loganair.

[Van G]

I've heard this rumour knocking about. If we're going to become a Flybe franchise, why/how is granite involved?

Just wondering what the catch is.

[Cloud1]

2 Franchises based in Scotland? Not sure about that one

[Cactus99]

Flybe? really? Clutching at straws springs to mind.

Would be rather ironic to have to repaint the ex Flybe 145's back into Flybe colours.

With 14 or so aircraft, that is a very big 'take on' as a franchise!

[Aircrew101]

BBC News - FlyBe to take on BmiBaby routes (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-17959889)

Part about regional at the end of the article.

[LGS6753]

The FlyBe idea does make some sense.
Whatever routes Regional (owned by Granite) operate on their own account would be marketed by FlyBe. That gives FlyBe a slice of someone else's revenue for not doing much, and it gives Granite a better-known brand and distribution system, hopefully attracting more passengers than they would as a stand-alone. It also reduces the amount they need to spend on marketing, because there would be no need to expensively promote a new brand.

All FlyBe need to be careful about is clearly determining which routes can be flown by Granite/Regional and which by Loganair.

[Skipness One Echo]

Theres not a whole lot that Regional would add that's not covered by flybe already......
The DHC8-Q400 is better suited to domestics from Scotland than the ERJ-145/135 flown by BMI Regional and flybe seem to have some spares as the new ERJ-175s arrive. Why not do what they did with bmi baby at EMA, it makes more commercial sense than taking on a load of jets they said were unsuitable when they got BA Connect,

[Van G]

Loganair starting Glasgow to Leeds from 8th May. Replacing Bmir service.

Here we go...

I'm off to lube up.

[rutankrd]

Some of bmiR special contracts may have value notably their BAe/Airbus contracts and their oil/gas related flights to Groningen and Esbjerg.
And between ABZ-NWI

Suitable for a Suckling 328?

As for the trans boarder services
ABZ- MAN duplicated by Flybe
EDI- MAN duplicated as above

The flights from Glasgow and Edinburgh to Copenhagen have long been operated for SAS and could well be handed back for their direct ops with a Canadair.

bmiR have already lost their hold on SN Brussels connecting flight to well you know FLYBE !

That pretty much leaves just one route as as usual with the bmi group as was - a very random MAN- Lyon flight . That would fit very nicely into Flybes' existing and extensive French network.

Then there are/were a few rotations for LH to Hanover from LHR - well that will go to another LH group either Eurowings or Germanwings for sure.

Those slot sitters on off peak LHR- MAN/Scotland well those are now redundant. The slots are either transferred to IAG/BA or retained by the LH group (A significant number of slots have been retained by LH Group)

As said apart from paragraph one and those contracts that would certainly suit Loganair subsidiary Sucking and FLYBE franchisee , there isn't much left of value that i can see.

[frontcheck]

EDI & GLA/CPH is not operated for SAS, however they do code-share the route.
There is also EDI/BRU AND EDI/ZRH.
All the routes do very well and if they were marketed properly I am sure they
would remain successful.

[Skipness One Echo]

ZRH, CPH and BRU are all STAR hubs with, I would imagine connectivity. So would BMI Regional code share as flybe? If not, surely SAS, Brussels Airlines and Swiss would have their own metal or partners in pretty quick to maintain feed?

GLA-CPH used to be a DC9-41......

[rutankrd]

Agreed thats their problem isn't it? Apart from those previously mentioned oil/gas/aerospace contracts they are nothing more than a LH group feeder !

The GLA_CPH was indeed transferred from SAS when they got rid of the super hot DC9-21 because they didn't have a small enough aircraft to continue.

I am pretty sure SAS WILL return to one of the lowland ports very soon.

[Skipness One Echo]

Actually GLA-SVG was on the hot rod Series 21, Copenhagen was on the larger Series 41. It is currently operated by a bmi Regional ERJ-135.

[The Cleaner]

Hmmmm, all quiet yet again. No doubt be told that take over is happening in 'two weeks' for the umpteenth time :-(

[Van G]

Yep. Well last Thursday a certain P.A said the deal should go through this week. So by tomorrow...

Might get some more useful and reliable information on Friday with the IAG shareholders update.

[Granite City Express]

The IAG shareholder statement will probably be the date they will announce anything.

This has been a slow and painful process. :ugh:

[Van G]

It certainly has! Well lets hope this Friday is The Friday.

Good luck all. Whatever the outcome, any news about what is going on would be better than the current void.

Time for a gin.

[bornfree]

IAG Printer Friendly Version - News Release (http://www.iagshares.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=240949&p=irol-rnsArticle_Print&ID=1694268&highlight)=

[Jonty]

Good news for the regional guys. Lets hope they can now find a buyer for Baby.

[NGPoler]

At last some positive news. Good luck to all in bmir.

[SWBKCB]

BMI Regional sold by IAG - www.travelweekly.co.uk (http://www.travelweekly.co.uk/Articles/2012/05/10/40450/bmi-regional-sold-by-iag.html)

[1013.25mb]

IAG - International Airlines Group - News Release (http://www.iairgroup.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=240949&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1694268&highlight=)

bmi Regional sale


RNS Number : 0646D
International Cons Airlines Group
10 May 2012

BMI REGIONAL SALE
International Airlines Group (IAG) has signed a binding agreement to sell bmi Regional to Sector Aviation Holdings Ltd (SAH) for a total consideration of £8 million in cash. The sale includes all bmi Regional's fixed assets and long-term liabilities, including owned and operating lease aircraft.
bmi Regional operates a fleet of 18 Embraer regional jets on scheduled services throughout the UK and Northern Europe.
The sale is conditional upon CAA approval and it is anticipated that ownership will be transferred to SAH within two weeks.
IAG chief executive Willie Walsh said: "This deal provides a future for bmi Regional and should secure around 330 jobs".
Sector Aviation is a consortium of businessmen with considerable aviation experience including the team previously referred to as Granite Aviation, led by Ian Woodley. The business is being funded by Stephen and Peter Bond who are also investors in Loganair.
ends
May 10, 2012 IAG 04
Notes to Editors
IAG's purchase of bmi from Lufthansa was completed on April 20, 2012
bmi Regional is based in Aberdeen and flies to 14 destinations from UK regional airports

Certain information included in these statements is forward-looking and involves risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from those expressed or implied by the forward-looking statements.

Forward-looking statements include, without limitation, projections relating to results of operations and financial conditions and the Company's plans and objectives for future operations, including, without limitation, discussions of the Company's Business Plan, expected future revenues, financing plans and expected expenditures and divestments. All forward-looking statements in this report are based upon information known to the Company on the date of this report. The Company undertakes no obligation to publicly update or revise any forward-looking statement, whether as a result of new information, future events or otherwise.
It is not reasonably possible to itemise all of the many factors and specific events that could cause the Company's forward-looking statements to be incorrect or that could otherwise have a material adverse effect on the future operations or results of an airline operating in the global economy. Further information on the primary risks of the business and the risk management process of the group is given in the Annual Report and Accounts 2011; this document is available on IAG - International Airlines Group - Investor Relations (http://www.iagshares.com).




This information is provided by RNS
The company news service from the London Stock Exchange

END

[Flying Wild]

IAG Press Release (http://www.iagshares.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=240949&p=irol-rnsArticle_Print&ID=1694268&highlight)

Good luck to them. Sadly I don't think the same outcome will be found for Baby, what with routes already having been poached by Flybe and Monarch.

[Rougueg]

BBC News - BMI Regional sold to Aberdeen consortium (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-18017863)

Finally the news we have all been hoping for.

[stormin norman]

Good news and good business by IAG.

Lets hope they get the long term future they deserve.

[giblets]

Great news for all involved at Regional, I understand the BMI name will live on, and they will keep flybmi.com


Seems a bit of a result for BA, £8m, and, as I understand it, they were paid to take it off Lufthansa (please correct me if this is wrong).

[Rougueg]

When do you think information will start coming out regarding the plans fro BMI Regional?

Prior to the CAA clearing the deal?

I do hope that is now just a formality!

[fjencl]

Well Done

:ok: :D :ok:

[LBIA]

Well good look to bmi regional's new Scottish owners and to all the crews that have been kept in a job. You deserve it after all that's been said lately.

Its good to see the airlines winter 2012/2013 scheduled has also just been released for sale again. As flights had not been bookable while the future of the airline was still undecided.

I just hope somebody will come along and keep bmibaby flying and save all them jobs that will be lost if it's forced to close September by it's owners IAG.

[davidjohnson6]

Many of those working for regional today deserve to be happy. Buy a bottle of champers at the off licence and drink it with your family - it is well earned.

However please think carefully about SAH's business plan. Even if the CAA signs off on the deal doesn't mean you are made for life. Airlines can and do go bust or make staff redundant. The deep pockets of parent Lufty are no more.

Granite needs to restructure quickly and will not find it easy against Eastern and Flybe. What worked in the 90s doesn't necessarily work now.

Use your own judgment and be prepared to act based on your gut instincts.

[AirGuru]

Well done guys, you lot at BMIr deserve it all, and as david said, treat yourself this evening !
With regard to some new routes, my thoughts are pondering many since BMIr needs a massive route restructure that actually allows them to be profitable. They need to move away from the places that have high lo-co influences i think, and focus more on those airports that need european and UK links. Take CWL for example, has hardly any links to basic EU destinations such as Berlin, Frankfurt, Brussels, Copenhagen etc. so there could be some market there for BMIr.

[BAladdy]

It's excellent news about BMI Regional. It will be interesting to see what they have planned. Quite a few of BMI Regionals routes link *A hubs and are used by passengers to connect to international services with *A members. It will be interesting to see if those routes can be successful now the airline is not part of *A.

I think to make the business a success they will need to make the following changes to there routes, fleet and bases.

Routes

1. Expand the current BD Regional partnership with SN. They could paint a handful of there ER4's into SN livery, have there crew wear SN uniform and onboard offer a SN product. With the aircraft being used to operate on the current routes that BD op independently from EDI, EMA, LBA to BRU as well as the routes to BRU from BRS and NCL that BD currently op on behalf of SN

2. Starts talks with VS and if VS are serious about bidding for the slots released by IAG for flights to ABZ and EDI from LHR. They could operate the flights on behalf of VS and be branded as VS express or Regional operated by BMI Regional. This could also lead to opening a VS route to MAN from LHR

I think the current BD Regional routes from Aberdeen to Groningen, Manchester and Norwich as well as the routes from Manchester to Edinburgh and Lyon will be closed. The future of there other routes will depend on a number of factorrs. The remaining routes and factors are:

ABZ to EBJ & NWI - The future of these routes will depend upon securing a contract with a major oil company to transport employees from ESJ to ABZ

EDI & GLA to CPH - These routes will continue to operate if they can continue to operate under the SK codeshare.

EDI to ZRH - Possibility of surviving if they can op under code share with LX.

EMA to FRA - Possibility of surviving if they can op under code share with LH.

Bases

BD Regional currently have crew based at ABZ, EDI, EMA, GLA, LBA and MAN. I can see BD cutting these bases back to just two, those being ABZ and EDI.

If the SN agreement does happen, then the crew for those flights would probably be all EDI based and aircraft and crews could be rotated at BRU.

Fleet

The regional fleet of 19 aircraft will probably drop to 15 with the 4 37 seater ER3's being removed from the fleet

[sealink]

Congratulations to all at Regional.... lets hope its onwards and upwards with secure jobs for you guys and gals...... well done !!

[Mungo Man]

BAladdy, you just make yourself look daft writing tosh like that. You clearly don't know much about bmi Regional or its routes and bases so you aren't very well placed to speculate on how to improve it. You missed 3 bases out for a start...

[Richard Taylor]

"I think the current BD Regional routes from Aberdeen to Groningen, Manchester and Norwich as well as the routes from Manchester to Edinburgh and Lyon will be closed. The future of there other routes will depend on a number of factorrs. The remaining routes and factors are:

ABZ to EBJ & NWI - The future of these routes will depend upon securing a contract with a major oil company to transport employees from ESJ to ABZ"

Really? Esbjerg has been a route from ABZ since 1988 - the Business Air days.

[SWBKCB]

Routes

1. Expand the current BD Regional partnership with SN. They could paint a handful of there ER4's into SN livery, have there crew wear SN uniform and onboard offer a SN product. With the aircraft being used to operate on the current routes that BD op independently from EDI, EMA, LBA to BRU as well as the routes to BRU from BRS and NCL that BD currently op on behalf of SN

Aren't NCL and BRS going back to SN metal from the winter?

[AP1995]

how is LBA a base with them operating 1 route? surely expansion?

[johnnychips]

BAladdy, you just make yourself look daft writing tosh like that. You clearly don't know much about bmi Regional or its routes and bases so you aren't very well placed to speculate on how to improve it. You missed 3 bases out for a start...

What are the other three bases?

[Hotel Uniform Yankee]

CEG,LHR,NCL,BRS

[johnnychips]

Quick reply, thanks.

[Enecosse]

The Groningen route is subsidised by Shell.

By the way I learnt something....sciolist....impressed TDK, are you a pilot?

[Artie Fufkin]

enecosse, oh the irony, just look to the very bottom of this page...

[Skipness One Echo]

The bmi name in the public mind is toast so they will be going to market with a brand the market thinks is history. The non LHR routes are all over the place with no focus or hub, adhoc here, crew base there. On the current operation on that scale without LHR I cannot see a future. They operate an aircraft type that is no longer competitive on a sporadic route network on behalf of BMI which is disappearing and STAR of which they are not a member. This takeover is classic heart over ruling head. They will most likely be the next Duo as was said above, and I cannot see how the new owners can re-fleet, consolidate a disparate network, downsize, refocus AND absorb losses to survive. Indeed GLA-LBA has already been gifted to Loganair.

[giblets]

I disagree about the BMI name being toast, certainly it holds a good deal of value, there are a great deal of people outside the industry who are probably unaware of what is going on, and will know the brand, and certainly more than any 'new name' that may come out.

[Enecosse]

Artie I am impressed again. Someone actually scrolled to the bottom of the page, now there are two of us. Do you think thats where TDK got it from, that would make 3.
Regardless its a great word. Now I just have to get it into a conversation, but wait I work with pilots should be a easy.
Now I better use an emoticon just so you know I am not serious...:)

[Trossie]

Good to see that the people at BMI Regional have an answer at last. How long has it dragged on? Good that they have now been broken free from 'dinosaur' airlines. It also seems totally fair that the only part of the BMI 'empire' that was able to hold its head above the water still keeps the 'brand' going.

(And people like BALaddy, who seem to understand very little outside LHR, should keep quiet with their uninformed tosh, stay put in their 'Heathrow village' and leave the BMIR staff to enjoy their news!)

Good Luck!!

[Skipness One Echo]

There's two parts here, flying for BMI and flying for STAR partners. BMI flying is ending soon, regional flying to CPH, ZRH and BRU is not. If they are to continue serving these destinations, they cannot afford to have SAS, Swiss and Brussels Airlines come in on their own metal. If they get into a flybe franchise, their former partners in STAR become the enemy surely?

Nor can they keep one aircraft at GLA alone to fly GLA-CPH, now that GLA-LBA has gone, there's only one rotation per day for the aircraft.

[JimNich]

Can I ask a daft question? Alright, two then.

I know nothing about the Star Alliance set up but it seems everyone has taken it for granted that BMIRs participation within it is is coming to an end. Why exactly is this, can they not just apply to stay on?

Okay, so its three.:confused:

[EI-BUD]

everyone has taken it for granted that BMIRs participation within it is is
coming to an end. Why exactly is this, can they not just apply to stay
on?




JimNich,

Good question, if bmir is going to be run and owned by 2 of Loganair management, and by accounts on here one would sense they are inextricably linked, though I am sure I will promptly be corrected!

Leading from that I would suggest that since bmi name will disappear the major challenge is identity so I would say if they want a future and a marketing or cost effective advertising platform they should follow Loganair into Flybe franchise that is of course they have a new business strategy e.g. going into say charters, wet leases etc. We are all assuming that the airline network will remain as it currently is, maybe it will, but maybe when the new owners get to look at the all the route stats changes may occur.

Sorry I was off point, so if one progresses the ideas from above, one would ask why doesnt flybe join Star or OneWorld? I would suggest mainly because of cost, secondly BE do have interlining deals with airlines at different airports and therefore can largely bypass the 'benefits' of joining an alliance.

I would also guess that most of Bmir's ops are point to point in the main (excluding services previously operated to LHR) therefore not sure they would see a value in the interlining benefits and the other airlines may see little added value from having this new small airline in the alliance.

Just my views of course.

EI-BUD

[routemargo]

If they get into a flybe franchise, their former partners in STAR become the enemy surely?

Flybe - part owned by Oneworld BA, are already flying wet leases for Star Alliance- Brussels Airlines. In SN livery - BHX for example.

No issue with that. Business is business...;)

[davidjohnson6]

Forgive me if I've missed something, but I thought that bmi as a group ended its Star Alliance membership just before it was sold by Lufthansa to IAG last month. Thus regional's relationship with Brussels, SAS and Swiss is that of codesharing rather than full airline alliance membership.

As such, Brussels, SAS and Swiss will feel rather less obligation in the future to continue being buddies with regional if they don't think it's in their interest, particularly as Brussels+Swiss's parent in the form of Lufthansa group no longer has an equity stake in regional.

[frontcheck]

Whilst being in any alliance would be good for Bmir, it is not always as good as it is made out to be. The larger carriers may well codeshare but it also means any tickets (assuming Bmir keep the current bmi interline agreements) will be on the issuing carrier's tickets, therefore Bmir would not get any revenue for seats sold until after the passenger has travelled. So , yes, they would get a good number of seats sold by the other alliance carriers but would not have immediate access to the revenue....something which I think they will need :hmm:

[bananamanuk]

I have just come across an article that is in Danish (I read it under google translate) stating that BMI and BMI Regional are no longer working with SAS. I am adding this contribution purely because I thought it was relevant to the current debate.


SAS cuts ties with bmi
11-05-2012
SAS recently chose to terminate the commercial agreement with British Airways. Now is the turn of British Midland (bmi), where they åregamle codeshare agreements will be executed as a result of Lufthansa's sales of the company..... From Denmark, this means that no longer can be booked tickets on SK-route number on bmi Regionals routes from Copenhagen to Edinburgh and Glasgow

SOURCE Nyt om rejser og luftfart (http://www.check-in.dk/)

The story is located under the photo of the BMI A330.

[nef]

Just searched for flights on the SAS website and it is still coming up with BD Reg GLA-CPH with an SK code. This seemed to be available on dates throughout the summer. Who knows what the story is?!

EDIT: It would appear that this does not come into effect until the end of the summer timetable.

[DomyDom]

I must say that in my view dumping Manchester as a regional base because its not Aberdeen or in Scotland would be very short sighted. I would say that keeping MAN as a BMI Regional base would be extremely valuable. Regardless of existing routes by keeping MAN BMI regional would have direct access as connections to Virgin Atlantic, Middle Eastern, Flybe's continental routes, as well as Easyjet, Ryanair, Jet2, Thomsonfly and Thomas Cook Airlines extensive route network, as well as 10 and 4 flights a day to LHR and LGW respectively. Also by expanding at MAN BMI regional woudl have the potentila to be a major player in Europe.

Scotland and the new owners will want to engage with Europe and the rest of the world not retract 'BMIbaby' style. Although Aberdeen may have direct connections with London, given the relative strength of the economy in Manchester and its' highly developed engineering/ technology base in energy/pharma/ chemicals etc, I would would advise cuation before putting all eggs in the ABZ-LHR market. Keep the MAN base and routes is my advice.

[Van G]

Well I'm glad we have some news. Though I think the real news will come in the next few weeks (I hope) with the union consultations. I'm very intrigued as to what they will do with the 5 aircraft to come out of LHR. The 2 not doing brussels work anymore. The routes we will cover once LHR slots are taken away by IAG...

And how on earth did they get the airline for £8 million. Call me a sceptic, but something doesn't add up.

BA now look like heros 'saving our jobs'. But the truth is we know nothing of our futures still. Let's hope this business plan really is all its cracked up to be and IAG haven't just let someone else do their dirty work.

Hate to be so down but I dont think we're fully out the woods just yet.

[Alberville]

Van G,

I'm sure there are concerns amongst some of the staff. But I have not seen such a positive vibe in ABZ HQ in a long time!

You're right, we don't know the full extent of the plans the new owners have. But given the years of experience and expertise they have in running airlines, surely people are feeling better about the whole situation?

I am very much looking forward to what will happen over the next few weeks, months, years!!:)

[jabird]

DD,

Keep the MAN base and routes is my advice.

Unfortunately, your advice ends up being self-contradicting, even if that was not your intention.

For Regional to have a place in the market, it needs to operate routes where there is (a) enough demand to put bums on seats and generate good yields, and (b) not so much demand that another operator can come onto the route and sell said seats at a lower cost, as they have larger aircraft.

Now I don't doubt for one minute that MAN has the advantages you mention, but I think that comes under satisfying (a) more than it does (b). ABZ on the other hand is a much smaller market in terms of population, but it can generate good yields to the right destinations.

The sale, which was reportedly worth £8 million, is said to have included the regional carrier’s fleet of 18 Embraer jets.

Thought regional was the more profitable side of the group? surely these jets are worth a few million squids each - suggests regional were liability like baby?

[Rivet Joint]

The guys involved in the purchase obviously know what they are doing and the important thing is that 300 or so people are kept in work.

However, the question remains on how the hell they expect to have such an operation with such equipment (50 seater RJ's) and turn a profit. There is no big parent company to pick up the cheque any more. Surely they need to get new metal A.S.A.P?

[Merchant Banker]

Change the record. You armchair industrialists/ doom and gloom merchants keep on speculating, why not phone the new owners and let them in on what you know? I'm sure they need the help. Fact of the matter is that regional has avoided being flushed down the pan by the slot grabbing IAG, unlike the despicably dealt with Bmi baby.

[acbus1]

I don't see why Regional shouldn't do well. Not sure Embraer jets are ideal, although I don't have all of the facts or intentions. It'll come out in the wash if the 'new' management are even slightly competent.

Sadly, bmibaby is and always was a totally different story. Tiny minnow amongst big sharks in a small pond. What did bmi so-called 'management', not to mention anyone who joined, or were scandalously press-ganged on threat of redundancy or rebasing, ever expect?

Good luck to all you Regional guys and gals. :ok:

[Mushton]

Because of the flooding of the market with American Eagle ditching it's 135/140/145s the value of them has plummeted. You'd be lucky to get £1million per aircraft. Especially with BMR's high hour/high cycle aircraft.
M

[Van G]

MB

If you're tired of speculation may I suggest you don't visit a rumour network.

I'm not a doom and gloom merchant I'm someone with genuine and justifiable concerns for my job.

I'd love to talk to the new owners, please do inbox me their details because we have been told the square root of :mad: all which is of course why people speculate. Why have a go at people worried about their jobs.

Living up to your name.

P.s. If the embraers were sold for £1 million each (think you'd get more like £5 million) they would still double their money.

[Merchant Banker]

Calm down...

[BCALBOY]

I juat had a thought.

The sale of BMIR was announced shortly before the announcement that BA would start services to RTM ,LBA and ZAG.

Would RTM and LBA not be good routes for the EMBs ?

Maybe as part of sale deal , BA will guarantee flying for 3-4 EMBs on these new routes .Anyone else thought of that ?

[AirGuru]

Personally, i think that they should create new routes to CWL, as it has a clearly proven regional market, that has been highlighted with the KLM, Aer Lingus Regional, and the past BMIBaby regional routes. Not forgetting Flybe ! So, yes BMIr need to get down to Cardiff !

[Rivet Joint]

Can't help but notice you're from South Wales..... :rolleyes:

[SWBKCB]

as it has a clearly proven regional market, that has been highlighted with the KLM, Aer Lingus Regional, and the past BMIBaby regional routes

clearly proven by the fact that none of them are still operating?

[TwinAisle]

I keep saying this - and I speak from experience as someone who does this sort of research and commissions it - if Cardiff had such a clearly proven market, it would have more operators exploiting them. Airlines are there to make money. They will exploit opportunities to make money. They won't just connect places for fun - they need proof that a commercial opportunity exists. If they can't see that market, and can't prove it's there - they won't go there.

The fact that Cardiff is NOT getting loads of new routes says one thing loudly and clearly - A SUFFICIENT MARKET IS NOT THERE.

I am quite sure the new owners of Regional know this, and will be focusing their efforts on routes that give them more chances of success.

TA

[Granite City Express]

Whats the fascination for CWL? I thought Bruce Dickinson's new mob were going to dominate the place?

[AirGuru]

Bruce Dickinson is taking over St. Athan with the new MRO facility, which is to provide upto 1300 jobs for South Wales. CWL is a good place to operate from, i do not understand why others always put CWL to bed !

[Aero Mad]

Probably because of the number of carriers which CWL has managed to put to bed.

[Granite City Express]

Air Guru, there is thread for Cardiff.

This isn't it. :hmm:

[Rougueg]

All,

Any information to confirm that the sale will be completed within 2 weeks?

Without starting 500 posts of speculation it would be great to know the immediate plans of SAH. Even if it were merely expand, contract or consolidate.

Back into the information vacuum!

[Granite City Express]

I havent heard anything from my usual sources. It is even quieter than DLH!!

[dpconlan2011]

With reference to the value of the bmi brand name being kept- i'm not so sure. You only have to look at people complaining on bmi mainline social media sites about early closure of bmibaby and vice versa about bmi closure to see that many don't recognise the difference, which I believe has, in part, led to the damage the brand has incurred. SAH would have to be very careful about how they market their 'new' airline.

[Fairdealfrank]

bmi brand
perhaps "British Midland" would be a good name, as opposed to "BMI", which may be associated with closure or associated with BA takeover?

[The Cleaner]

I can't see us getting any idea what plans are till they've got the nod from the CAA and the the ownership transfer is 100% done. As frustrating as it is I can see the merit in this.

After that happens I do hope there will be more open comms from management than has previously beeen the case during the past 12 months.

[Deep and fast]

Perhaps you should all learn Doric!

[Aero Mad]

Thinking of Doric, what's happening to Donnington Hall?

[Tisme]

Todays stand up informed us that at the moment they don't know what is going to happen with the Hall.

And the new owners of bmir are planning on operating and having there hq at east midlands.

[The Cleaner]

Todays stand up informed us that at the moment they don't know what is going to happen with the Hall.

And the new owners of bmir are planning on operating and having there hq at east midlands.

Is the bit about BMIR a wind up??? Surely cheaper just to let HQ remain in ABZ?????

[Rougueg]

Aviation services - Met Office (http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/aviation)

Nice picture of an EMB on the Met Office website

[The Cleaner]

Any word on the CAA approval anyone???

[Van G]

Nada. Would be nice to hear any form of update from abz...

Any truth to the rumour aircraft to all be on uk soil for the announcement? I heard that in the rumour mill. Bit concerning. Probably not correct...

[Rougueg]

Excuse my ignorance, but where is the benefit of having all the aircraft in the UK for the announcement? I can only see 2 purposes to that,

1. So that all crews can be present at any announcement.
2. For winding up of the company and grounding of all assets.


But like you say, it was only a rumor anyway.

[The Cleaner]

But if the sale is blocked by CAA, then BA still own them and they still need to operate the summer season as they've said and be wound up at the end of summer? Getting all aircraft on the ground in UK makes no sense even if it is bad news.

[le grand fromage]

Formalities for transfers of ownership of aircraft generally require them to be in UK at completion so that will be why the rumour is around. All aircraft were either owned by or leased to British Midland Airways Limited and will therefore need to be transferred to Regional or Granite when the deal completes.

[Rougueg]

well thats positive news... it presumes that the time is nearing when the deal is signed off.

Any date with that rumor?

[Flypuppy]

I understand from my impeccable sources that the deal will be completed this evening or very early tomorrow morning.

[Van G]

Yes that was confidential until today I believe. So not so impeccable :)

FLASH: bmi Regional sale completed | 1 June 2012 | Stock Market Wire (http://www.stockmarketwire.com/article/4381145/FLASH-bmi-Regional-sale-completed.html)

Sale of BMI Regional completed (http://m.travelweekly.co.uk/Article.aspx?cat=news&id=40660)

Deal is done. Still no real news on the plan.

[The Cleaner]

Travelweekly reporting the completion too.
Good news at last but still concerned about taking on the BMi brand,Unless it is a temporary measure I believe it is now unfortunately damaged, maybe beyond economic repair? As far as 99.9% of the general public are concerned BMi is now BA, I have heard friends say they have shied away from booking BMi recently due to uncertainty. In the general publics view there is pretty much NO differentiation between BMi and BMiR, in their minds eye its one and the same. All the major press stories have been about BMi being taken over and BMiBaby potentially shutting down. I think it would take A LOT of money spent on advertising to redress the publics view if it is even possible???

[MaxRange120]

300 jobs secured with sale of Bmi division to Aberdeen consortium

THE sale of the regional airline division of Bmi to a consortium of Aberdeen businessman has been completed in a deal that will secure more than 300 jobs in the area.

Sector Aviation Holdings has now secured the takeover of the loss-making carrier from the International Airlines Group following final approval from the Civil Aviation Authority.

A spokeswoman for the consortium said: “Future plans including the likely strengthening of the head office function at East Midlands Airport with the creation of up to forty new jobs in sales, customer service and finance as well as maintaining the operating centre in Scotland, located in Aberdeen.”

Ian Woodley, who becomes chairman of Bmi Regional under the new regime, said: “We are continuing with the existing route network while BA will provide support during the transitional phase of the operation and we will be working closely with them to ensure as seamless a transfer as possible

“I would also like to reassure our many customers, who will have naturally been wondering what the future holds during what has been a very uncertain period, that it is very much business as usual including the retention of the Bmi brand and existing services.

“This is a great company with fantastic people and my colleagues and I are immensely proud to have concluded the acquisition of an organisation that is held in such high regard throughout the United Kingdom and beyond.”

Derek Provan, the managing director of Aberdeen Airport, welcomed the announcement. He said: “I am pleased to hear that the sale of Bmi Regional has gone smoothly, news which will give great comfort to the staff in particular. Their future has been secured and we are now looking forward to working with the company moving forward to help develop their offering from Aberdeen Airport.”

Cabinet Secretary for Infrastructure and Capital Investment Alex Neil said: “This is fantastic news for Aberdeen and for the north-east. It safeguards a number of popular routes from Aberdeen Airport and, crucially, the jobs based there to support the service.

“Employees and passengers of Bmi Regional will also be pleased that this is happening with a team with a strong background in Scottish aviation. Efficient, convenient services from Scottish airports to destinations across Europe and beyond are key to the Scottish Government’s overarching aim of sustainable economic growth and I welcome the potential for future growth at Aberdeen Airport which this development presents.”

300 jobs secured with sale of Bmi division to Aberdeen consortium - News - Scotsman.com (http://www.scotsman.com/news/300-jobs-secured-with-sale-of-bmi-division-to-aberdeen-consortium-1-2332574)

[The Cleaner]

This copied from another forum. from the MD of BMi

Following my update to you on 10 May regarding the sale of bmi Regional, the deal between IAG and Sector Aviation Holdings Ltd to sell bmi Regional has been completed today.

The ownership of bmi Regional has now transferred to Sector Aviation Holdings Ltd (SAH) and from 1 June 2012, bmi Regional will no longer be part of the bmi group. I thank the bmi Regional team for their hard work, patience and commitment to the business and wish them well for the future.

We will provide elements of support to bmi Regional for an agreed period of time, yet please be mindful that bmi Regional is now a competitor and should be treated as such. If you are required to maintain a working relationship with bmi Regional, your manager will provide advice on how to conduct business going forward.

I realise that staff in both companies have worked side by side for many years, and for some of you, you will continue to come into regular contact with bmi Regional staff within the business environment or socially. Please just keep in mind that business matters should not be discussed.

For customers, the change of ownership will have no visible impact. The airline will continue to use the same airport locations and facilities and its summer schedule remains as planned. The bmi Regional logo and branding, the current aircraft liveries, BD and 236 airline codes will all continue until 27 October 2012.

Members of bmi’s Diamond Club will also see no immediate changes and will continue to earn and redeem miles, book reward flights and enjoy status benefits on all bmi Regional flights.

In the absence of its own website and booking functions, bmi Regional will continue to utilise flybmi.com to enable its customers to book and service their flights until 27 October. bmi’s call centres will also provide support until October.

The five Embraer aircraft currently wetleased to bmi mainline will continue to fly for us during the Summer timetable as planned. This agreement will cease at the end of the summer timetable and the aircraft will return to bmi Regional.

For bmi mainline, good progress is being made in all areas to integrate the airline into British Airways before the end of the summer timetable. The first group of routes transferred on 23 May and now operate as BA flights. These nine routes still operate into Heathrow Terminal 1 and with the same schedules, they just have BA flight numbers. Over time all mainline aircraft will also start to take on the BA style inside and out. The first bmi A319 to undergo rebranding took to the skies on 28 May in its new Olympic Dove livery.

Regarding bmibaby, following the start of the consultation process, which began on 3 May 2012, proposals have been reviewed regarding future options for bmibaby. After in-depth analysis of the different options, we can confirm that we will now be working to the proposal to close the business on 10 September 2012.

Please note that even at this very late stage, if a new and credible offer was received to acquire the bmibaby business, either in whole or part, IAG would readily enter discussions. However, we do not realistically anticipate this happening. In the meantime, consultation with union and employee representatives continues.

Following the changes to the flying programme announced earlier this month, the bmibaby team worked tirelessly to make sure customers affected by flight changes were refunded quickly and within seven days of the announcement. An advertising campaign was launched last weekend in the Midlands to serve as a reminder that bmibaby continue to fly and customers can still book flights for the summer with confidence.

I recognise that it remains a difficult time for staff at bmibaby and bmi mainline, yet I remain impressed with your professionalism in managing the day to day business and continuing to deliver an excellent service to our customers.

I will continue to keep you up to date with any developments and share information with you

Thank you for your continuing support.

Peter

[Skipness One Echo]

“Future plans including the likely strengthening of the head office function at East Midlands Airport with the creation of up to forty new jobs in sales, customer service and finance as well as maintaining the operating centre in Scotland, located in Aberdeen.”
So, HQ functions at both EMA and ABZ? I agree about the branding, we have a Catch 22 situation. BMI is now known to be an ex airline as far as the market is concerned and the ongoing closure of BMI Baby will further re-inforce that in the public mind. That story will drag out into September. Also worth recalling that when BMI Baby dropped Teesside, the market thought mainline had also departed and the existing LHR route suffered as a result.

[Fairdealfrank]

Maybe reverting to "British Midland" would be better as many may well belive that "BMI" is defunct, and forget any reference to "regional" and "international". Would make sense to keep the BD code after 27 october 2012 as the former mainline will have the BA code by then.

[Granite City Express]

So they want to take on a damaged brand and have a two HQ concept?

Sounds like a complete rebuilding of bmi, is this a good idea?

[Fairdealfrank]

Quote: "Sounds like a complete rebuilding of bmi, is this a good idea? "

Rebuilding the old "British Midland", with some tweaks to account for changed circumstances, maybe. Rebuilding the recently-defunct "BMI", no.

[SWBKCB]

So five aircraft returned from mainline at the end of the summer as well as the two released from BRU-NCL and BRU-BRS, what are they going to do with them all?

[Van G]

Could have misread, but that memo makes it sound like the bmi brand and website etc will only be used until October 27th? I thought the intention was to retain it.

I think it certainly is a catch 22 as mentioned above. Starting out with an unknown brand in the current climate, not a good idea. Keeping the bmi brand - well it will be recognised but maybe as an airline to NOT book your travel with. I don't know which is best. Maybe a case of taking the lesser of two evils.

And sounds like the embraers are out of heathrow after the summer. Thats now 7 embraers and counting that need work for the winter. I really hope these guys let us in on the master plan a little bit to share a little of the confidence and enthusiasm they seem to have. The information vacuum is starting to take its toll.

[nef]

Are We sure that the NCL/BRS-BRU routes are going back to SN metal? I have memories of previous instances of the timetables/booking engines showing SN metal doing these routes a few months before the start of the new timetable season, but closer to the time it reverted to BD 145s.

At those times people were posting here and elsewhere that SN were going back onto NCL/BRS-BRU and it proved to be misinformed. It may well be true this time, but we should bear in mind past experiences.

If the routes are going back to SN, it does raise huge questions about what they plan to do with the 7 aircraft releasrd from these routes and LHR.

[Fairdealfrank]

Quote: "If the routes are going back to SN, it does raise huge questions about what they plan to do with the 7 aircraft releasrd from these routes and LHR."

Domestic routes on behalf of VS (if they get the gig)? Or would VS use larger aircraft?

[Skipness One Echo]

several new routes have been identified by the new owners for returning aircraft, a permanent c-check spare aircraft and who knows about routes from Scotland to London yet?

If they want to survive the winter, I suspect they need to lose about a third of that capacity. New routes need start up costs and lose money for an unknown period, coupled with going into the winter season, added to no longer being a STAR Alliance affiliate, running a company with a brand that's just been buried in the mind of the market. A ruthless focus on costs and revenue will be essential in that first period. Unless Virgin are going to guarantee them a subsidy on Scotland -London, I can't see it, particularly as the numbers never add up using the ERJ-145.

[Buster the Bear]

Brussels to Lift Capacity to Bristol and Newcastle :: Routesonline (http://www.routesonline.com/news/29/breaking-news/152094/brussels-to-lift-capacity-to-bristol-and-newcastle/)

[The Cleaner]

So, now that the long weekend is over I wonder if we'll hear any time soon at least an indication of Sector's plans for BmiR???? Am hoping they've got something up their sleeves!

[dc9-32]

I can see in the not so distant future, a possible commercial link with BMiR and Virgin.

[Rougueg]

The biggest question still is on what new work has been lined up to use the aircraft.

I refuse to believe that the new owners took on BMIr without having a very detailed and serious plan to drive the business forwards. Furthermore the CAA would not have signed off the sale if their business plan was not well prepared.

Therefore at some point the plan will be revealed. But I would be amazed if Virgin factored in to it!

[Van G]

If crews do come out of heathrow October 27th that leaves little over 4 months to setup these untapped routes, advertise, sell tickets, relocate heathrow crews if their domicile base doesn't match up with operational requirements. Etc

We're being told heathrow crews will remain beyond October. I just wonder what the plan is if that isn't the case. It's not really in SAH's control so hope there's a contingency plan in place that doesn't involve P45s.

Also, when we lost the Brussels contract message from abz was not particularly concerned about it. Struck me as a little naive. Then the next line was that we may get it back and now can reapply. I don't believe that if 7 embraers suddenly have no work over the winter that things will be as rosey as the gaffers would have us believe. Just keeping it real. :ouch:

[Van G]

As for keeping the BMI name the press aren't really helping...

BBC News - BMIBaby to end some routes from East Midlands Airport (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-18391856)

[The Cleaner]

Still no news on future plans then I take it!

[Rougueg]

News black hole.

[nef]

I see on the BE thread that SN are taking on 2 more BE Dash-8s "to replace" the BD 145s. So it looks like 7 aircraft to find gainful employment for from the start of the winter season. What on earth have the new owners got planned.:confused:

[Yeadon Dam]

Has anything been said about the LBA-BRU route yet?

[MidlandDeltic]

When the Newcastle - Brussels goes over to SN Brussels in October as per post #241 above, will BMIR have any other work at that airport? Is there a base at Newcastle, or is it provided from elsewhere?

Cheers

MD

[SWBKCB]

The BMIR EMB is based at NCL but only operates the SN BRU service, nothing else. Understand it's the same case for the a/c at BRS.

[MidlandDeltic]

Thanks for that.

MD

[Bristol_Traveller]

I'm not best pleased that BRS-BRU is heading to Dash-8. I've rather enjoyed the pocket-rocket over the years.

LH (boo hiss) did say that they wanted to strengthen their presence in the UK regions, with more connections to *A hubs. Places like BRS, NCL, GLA, BFS aren't well served into the *A network. That might be an opportunity that BD-R might be used to work on. (Mind you, LH say a lot that turns out to be vapour).

From what I've been told, the 145's are profitable on BRS-BRU because they're low capacity and drive high yield. Having just paid GBP525 for BRS-BRU-BER and back, I can see what they mean. :hmm:

[Van G]

Good to see the new owners are communicating as effectively as ever. Would be nice to know plans to survive the winter. Just any non commercially sensitive bits of info. Anything! There may be an exodus soon...

[egnxema]

Certainly form a trade persepctive, there is no shortage of BA communication on the integration of bmi and Diamond Club etc.

But next to nothing on BD (regional) and its intention.

Former bmi account managers all seem to have transfered to BA.

Regional currently has no voice at all in the market place.

[Cyrano]

I believe a new Chief Commercial Officer is due to start at bmir in the next week or so.

[Van G]

Surely the new owners/old management will be in touch this week...

Let us know what's to happen to crews at Newcastle and Bristol come October. And the crews at heathrow.

Sorry but the communication has been terrible. Significant dates pass and events such as flybe allocating planes to the brussels contract occur and it's met with deafening silence from abz.

People have resigned and theres been no further recruitment. Why is that?

[Granite City Express]

How confident are we that we will see the other side of winter?

A rumour I heard was that all the owned aircraft had been put into a new company in the Isle of Man which would keep them safe should things go pear-shaped.

7 aircraft will be left kicking their heels from the end of October onwards, from LHR, NCL and BRS. Then the Airbus contract is up for renewal soon, which if history is anything to go by that will free up another 2 aircraft.

The lack of communication from management - actually where is the management center these days? Still EMA or ABZ? - is even worse than under bmi.

My CV is in the post. :{

[Rougueg]

Recrutiment starts again soon. Fact.
No further information.

[The Cleaner]

In regards the previous post, have heard the same on good authority, NFDA.