Leadership - A Different View

[Edmund Blackadder]

Having just slated a thread on this very topic I will try to explain myself a little clearer.

As officers and SNCOs in the armed forces we are all supposed to be able to demonstrate leadership skills and qualities. In todays RAF there is also a need for managers (or if not a need then there is at least a place for them). It is easy to criticise others for not demonstrating these leadership qualities as well as being true that all too often management gets mistaken for leadership.

I challenge all of us to define leadership, (not the bulls**t that is spouted in books)and within that definition think about the last time we actually demonstrated any of it ourselves. This may all sound very sanctimonious but until we do this i don't think we are in aposition to criticise others.

For my two-penneth;

Leaders can not be taught but can learn. Managers on the otherhand must be taught. A leader is an inspirational character that that can prioritise when the individual is more important than job and vice versa. Managers must get results.

Its not for me to say whether I have displayed any of these characteristics recently but I have been fortuneate to have worked with some people who have. Leaders are still around in todays RAF but admittedly you sometimes have to look a little harder for them.

Ed

[Adastral]

Ed

Agree with you to some extent mate. What pisses everyone off lower down the chain is that our leadership seems determined 'not to rock the boat'.

From flts, to sqns, to stns, to gps, all the way up the chain there seems to be an unwillingness to say it how it really is - why else does a forum like this generate so much interest?

I once heard a great discription of the RAF as being like a tree full of Koala Bears. At the top, looking down, all you can see is smiley faces. At the bottom, looking up, all you can see is arseholes!!

It's very cynical but we are ultimately all bound by our political masters. Remember the general exaltation when Sir Michael Graydon rebelled against the politicians? Here was a senior RAF Officer displaying Leadership and we were all behind him. What happened? He was forced to make an embarrassing climbdown and the RAF has been under the thumb ever since.

Noone wants to rock the boat. We are all trying to get by and look towards the next goal, whether it be promotion or the posting we want. We are having to be managers because that is the only way we can display our effectiveness. True military leaders only emerge in times of conflict. In peacetime they are an inconvenience.

[This message has been edited by Adastral (edited 30 November 2000).]

[oldbeefer]

All started going downhill when boss of PTC started calling himself the 'Chief Executive', for Ch****'s sake. With "leadership" like that, what chance for the rest of us, he seems to think we are just a business!!

[1.3VStall]

Oldbeefer,

You are absolutely right. When I joined we were led by "Commanders". One of the main reasons I left after 25 years+ was that I was fed up with being (mis)managed by officers who styled themselves "Executives" and "Directors".

Still, y'know, these grey men fit in nice and cosily with Tony's crony culture!

[Buffhoon]

I think you could all do worse than follow the fine example of Air Chief Marshal Wrotton. There! I've said it. Now will you inexperienced chaps just settle down and do as you are told!

[Jackonicko]

As an outsider looking in, I must say that I'm surprised at how much excellent leadership there is at ranks up to and including One Star - above that my evidence tends to be anecdotal, since I don't personally rub shoulders with Air Marshals much. I know a score of chaps with scrambled egg on their hats who would meet with your approval, though the management structure of the RAF means that by necessity, their views may not be crystal to those below them, even as they fight for the issues which all of you would doubtless deem to be important. Equally, I'm fairly sure that there are AVMs and above who are just as energetic in promoting the interests of the service (and not just in their own upward progression up the promotion ladder), though there are also doubtless some self-serving careerists, Whitehall Warriors and timid administrative mice.

The problem seems to be one of a steady politicisation of the Civil Service and of Government Departments which, in the case of the MoD, may also have spread to some parts of the top echelons of the Services themselves. As soon as it becomes difficult to ascertain any difference between the aims and interests of Government and the aims and interests of the Services, there is a problem, because the two may not always coincide.

Refresh my memory regarding Graydon, some-one. Did he speak out any more than Pete S already has?

[Jensen]

During an off-duty discussion with 2 fast-rising Wg Cdr friends of mine, they admitted that they had often debated where the invisible glass ceiling was. We all agreed that it lay between Air Cdre and AVM, as previously sensible 1-stars lose the plot completely when they become a 2*

I was at a Sqn dining-in shortly before Mike Graydon retired. He was guest of honour, and in his speech he spoke quite movingly I thought about the pressures on RAF personnel (in particular he emphasised 1st line engineers and AT/AAR aircrew). He went on to talk about his own job - and said that, yes, it really was very difficult with all the constant cutbacks etc. He asked rhetorically, whether he should have resigned in protest. He admitted that he had considered resignation very seriously, but he concluded that the cuts would have happen regardless of who was CAS. So he had decided to stay and make the best of it.

[Edmund Blackadder]

Gents,

Thanks for starting the ball rolling.

Jacko

This story is all rumour and may or may not be true, but it is a good yarn.

The encumbent SoS for Defence was in the middle of sweeping defence reform (cuts) which was culminating in RAF station closures. CAS gave a public speech after a dinner in which he condemned the government policy on force reduction etc and was very critical in particular to the SoS for Defence. This speech was reported in the press. Here is what may have followed on the next day.

CAS ordered to the Ministers office, or so the story goes (allegedly and all that)and was given the choice of signing one of two letters. the first was a total retraction of the previous nights speech the second a resignation letter. CAS asked for time to think it over. On returning to his office he contacted the other defence chiefs to see if anyone else would consider resigning over the issue. All bar one agreed. The one not willing to go was allegedly a political animal and realised that this was his chance for advancement with all the others being out of the way. CAS came to the conclusion that this was an all or nothing deal and with him out of the way who would replace him? Hence the following days retraction.

This could be complete and utter bo!!ocks. I don't know, its just what I heard at the time.

Its a shame that many of the senior posts are by there very nature these days political appointments. The people who fill these posts have not forgotten hoe to be leaders, they are sometimes prevented from showing it.

We need a cunning plan.

Ed

[bluntie]

This is definately a thought provoking thread. Most of the officers I've worked for were 'yes' men, as they saw that as the way to advance their careers and sod everyone under them. But is there another way to get on in the officer corps?. The ones who stand up and argue the toss get sh*t on and they become professional Flt Lts.

So which is the good leader?. The yes man who pleases his bosses and p*sses off the troops or the one who stands up and says no and then takes the (negative) consequences?.

[This message has been edited by bluntie (edited 01 December 2000).]

[JimNich]

Good thread, so here's my ten penn'th:

1) I disagree that good leaders can only really be effective in times of conflict. If ever we were in dire need of some of the "right stuff" then I guess now would be it.
2) I agree that the majority of senior officers could be very good leaders given half a chance. However, with the top heavy, over managed mess that the services have become they're just not going to get the opportunity to display any.
3) Anther important facet of leadership, there can be only one!

[Dan Winterland]

One of the most poignant moments of my RAF career was watching a mate of mine being dined out of the RAF recently. Harry Staish did the Staish thing and gave a speil on all the departing guests, and bantered said mate that it was a good thing that he was leaving for an airline, because he would never be promoted due to the quality of his staff work. He then went on to mention that said mate was awarded a medal for his leadership of a det during a war.

A sad, but becoming a depressingly familiar state of affairs.

[Edmund Blackadder]

Gents,

What defines a good leader in todays RAF. I agree with just about all points up to now however heres a thought. If someone just keeps bucking the system, even if it is for all the right reasons, but because of this is un-promotable (rightly or wrongly) he will never be in a position to be able to change the system that obviously needs changing. Its a difficult balance.

(edited cause my typings cr*p)

Wibble

Ed

[This message has been edited by Edmund Blackadder (edited 02 December 2000).]

[JimNich]

Very true but the ideal person would be able to manage the balance. The secret is to be able to play the political animal whilst maintaining your individuality and not compromising any of the standards you set out with.
I for one would fall at the first hurdle, not being able to keep my big mouth shut.

[Adastral]

JimNich's hit the nail on the head - on all counts! If only we could keep quiet long enough to be in a position to do something!

Unfortunately, and controversially, not even CAS or CDS is in a position to do that. I'm going to leave at 38, sell my soul and become a politician; work my way to Downing Street and then forget every good intention I ever had!

[smooth approach]

We reposing especial Trust and Confidence in your Loyalty, Courage, and good Conduct, do by these Presents Constitute and Appoint you to be an Officer in Our Royal Air Force from the **** day of *** 1986. You are therefore carefully and diligently to discharge your Duty as such in the Rank of Acting Pilot Officer or in such other Rank as We may from time to time hereafter be pleased to promote or appoint you to and you are in such manner and on such occasions as may be prescribed by Us to exercise and well discipline in their duties such Officers, Airmen and Airwomen as may be placed under your orders from time to time and use your best endeavours to keep them in good Order and Discipline. And We do hereby Command them to Obey you as their superior Officer and you to Observe and follow such Orders and Directions as from time to time you shall recieve from Us, or any superior Officer, according to the Rules and Discipline of War, in pursuance of the Trust hereby reposed in you.

Given at Our Court, at Saint James's

the Third day of June 1986 in the Thirty Fifth Year of Our Reign.

Elizabeth R


OK, it's a little 'off-at-a-tangent', but it's the only true TORs I've ever been given. I believe a good leader is someone who can meet those terms whilst still being loyal to his subordinates - a very difficult balance!

(Edited for lots of reasons!)

[This message has been edited by smooth approach (edited 03 December 2000).]

[Edmund Blackadder]

The problem with that is Smoothie is that Politicians count as superior officers and with all the best will in the world their jobs are far more public opinion dependant than ours. They work by reading public opinion and trying to form some sort of cohesive policy. This is not condusive to being the type of leader that is required by the military. That's why we have defence chiefs. However if they become too much of a political animal then we can be in real trouble.

Wibble

Ed

[smooth approach]

Eddie, I think I know where you're coming from but it's not helped by a bottle of Chablis and a couple of Whiskeys.

Wibble in unison


Smoothie

[R O Tiree]

Seems to me looking back on the last <harrumph, mumble, mumble> "lots" of years, that those that play the political game in order to get on (in the hope that they might be able to change things) become political animals by default, thus we end up in no better position than we were before.

Just my 2p worth....

[offshoreigor]

Since I'm not active duty, I'll not dispute any of the above comments. I've been out since 88, but the following may add to the original thread:

Character

* Understand how to balance the urgent and the truly important.
* Value and respect the contributions that others make
* Are loyal in their dedication and hardworking to do their best
* Recognize the value of relationships, both inside the unit and in the service

Vision

* Constantly strategize to be world leaders in the military community
* Communicate that purpose effectively but not excessively
* Strive for a team effort and a family mentality at all levels

Influence

* Lead by example (they follow someone above them)
* Provide covering for the workers under them by taking responsibility well
* Demonstrate respect for individuals and trustworthiness in details
* Are not afraid to call others to follow the standard

Just a few thoughts.

Cheers, OffshoreIgor http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/eek.gif

[Carpass]

Lead by example, and do as I do, not as I say.

[JimNich]

Ed,

Just to go of at a tangent for a sec (and I do agree with your last post). If politicians are so influenced by public opinion why then have they just lowered the homosexual consent age when it was quite clearly against the majority opinion.
I raise this because our current government seem quite fond of this sort of stunt (did you want homosexuality legalised in the armed forces?)

[The Mistress]

Albert Schweitzer said:

"Example is not the main thing in influencing others, it's the only thing."

Unfortunately I've seen some pretty crud "examples" in the RAF - Bill Wratten (Chinook), Sandy Wilson (curtains) and Peter Harding (Bienv. Buck) to name but 3!!!!! Wratten is being covered at the mo on other threads. Wilson was making people redundant at the time he was feathering his nest with public money and Harding was caught shortly after he had re-issued "thou shalt not commit adultery" type orders.

I much prefer Samuel Goldwyn's words:

"I don't want 'yes men' around me. I want everybody to tell me the truth ... even if it costs them their jobs."

Nil and I have always practised this. We have both been threatened with loss of our jobs on more than one occasion. Two fingers to the lot of them. I despise those who are scared of rocking the boat - where the hell is their backbone. How can those in the armed forces think of themselves as 'professional' if all that matters is back-stabbing your way to the next stripe.

That's not why any of the services exist, is it chaps.

[This message has been edited by The Mistress (edited 05 December 2000).]

[This message has been edited by The Mistress (edited 05 December 2000).]

[1.3VStall]

Bloody hell Mistress, you've clearly got more balls than the whole of the Air Force Board!

[misterploppy]

My Lord Blackadder

Myself, Mrs Ploppy and young Ploppy McPlop of the Clan McPlop suggest you could do far worse than 'hae a wee lookie' at Capt Mick O'Leary's:

<A HREF="http://members.tripod.com/RegimentalRogue/" TARGET="_blank">http://members.tripod.com/RegimentalRogue/</A>

Look at the articles "Tigers can't live in a box" and "Where have all the tigers gone?"

[Vortex_Generator]

This pretty well sums it up:
<A HREF="http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/Forum4/HTML/003212.html" TARGET="_blank">http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/Forum4/HTML/003212.html</A>