ACA 'ProPilot'

[U2380]

Hi guys,

First off, I apologise if this is in the wrong place or has been posted before, I'm still finding my way around the forums.

I hope to start a JAA ATPL course later this year and I'm looking for a bit of info on a particular flight school.

The flight school is called Airlines Career Academy (ACA) and the course is called 'ProPilot'.

ACA ProPilot: JAA/EASA ATPL commercial pilot training programme (http://www.acapropilot.com/)

As you can see, the course is extremely well priced when compared to flight schools in the UK, they also ask for a number of smaller payments throughout the course as opposed to a large up front payment.

However, the fact that the course is so much less expensive than it's Uk counterparts worries me somewhat. As does the fact that the ground training and some of the flying hours are completed at the same time.

Does anyone have any information on this course and any potential pitfalls it may have? Would this be a viable course or would I be better off somehow finding the extra money and doing a course in the UK? (OAA/CTC)

I'm particularly 'worried' about links with the airlines after the training is completed. Is it likely that an applicant from this course be disregarded straight away? Especially when up against someone from OAA/CTC?

I appreciate that some of these questions may be neigh on impossible to answer, but any input would be appreciated.

As a side note, I have looked into taking the modular route with Bristol GS, however I can't see the 'blended' course working for me. I would prefer to do a full time ground school course.

Many thanks.

[B2N2]

By the looks of it you do all of your time building VFR which seems a bit of a waste.
There are programs out there with all the timebuilding IFR.

[Twillis]

Hi,

I am in exactly the same position. I have been to a range of FTO seminars and have found ACA to be the most convincing and grounded, with the price being one of the major benefits.

Are there any real drawbacks to this ProPilot Scheme? As it does what sound too good to be true?

Sorry for hijacking the thread :\

[Groundloop]

As does the fact that the ground training and some of the flying hours are completed at the same time.

Nothing wrong with this if properly planned. This is what "Intergrated" courses used to be like - hence why they were called Integrated as ground school was integrated with flight training. FTE still do this so some extent in the second half of groundschool.

[liam548]

To say how much this company and their seminars are publicised there is very little info on the forums regarding them..

[timeforclarity]

They changed their name from Orlando Flight Training. Look for stories about them. Not positive at all.

As for "Pro Pilot" it's not their product, it's a company based at Coventry Airport who offers their iPad app with content to anyone who buys it. Essentially making any school seem like they have a half decent ground school.

Incidentally this is the same setup Cabair were using before they died and who also owned OFT. "ACA" started using the Cabair model when Sheldon England became the guy flogging their courses.

Stay away.

[liam548]

"
Thank you for attending our pilot training seminar at the Holiday Inn. In the end we had a good turnout finishing with 5 new Scholarship assessment applications.

If you want to take advantage of the £10,000 scholarship, ACA are offering towards your airline pilot training, you will need to attend and pass the pre enrolment assessment. To book your assessment, or to arrange a 30 minute private meeting to review your training objectives, we are back at the Holiday Inn, Leeds Garforth all day on Wednesday the 23rd May. Just respond to this email and I will send you your confirmation time.

There has never been a better time train to become an airline pilot. For more information go to:

Video: Demand for airline pilots set to soar - USATODAY.com (http://travel.usatoday.com/flights/story/2011/06/Demand-for-airline-pilots-set-to-soar/48661596/1)
FONT=Arial][/FONT]
Video: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xiqnw5_north-american-aviation-industry-faces-pilot-shortage_news (http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xiqnw5_north-american-aviation-industry-faces-pilot-shortage_news)
Here are the main points concerning the JAA Pro Pilot program

Pro Pilot Program Benefits
· 12 month program Integrating ground training/ Flight Training and airline preparation training – Florida and Spain
· Flight training combined with ground school – Helps learning process
· Multi Crew Cooperation and Jet Orientation (MCC/ JOC) at Pan Am in Miami on Cat-D Type Rating simulators – Excellent prep for Airline interview and Type Rating

Financial Considerations
· Booking fee return guarantee in the event cadet is not granted either a class 1 medical or US Visa
· Program fee equally divided over 10 monthly instalments – Financial security in a pay as you learn arrangement
· Deposit only £1,000 with the next phased instalment due when cadet arrives at Academy
· 100% money back guarantee within first 20 hours of flying

Investment
· £59,995 divided over 10 equal monthly instalments commencing (see above) one week before program start
· If Cadet passes assessment, ACA will award a training Scholarship reducing program fee to £49,995
· Includes all single room accommodation in gated community, with gym, pool and laundrette

Other facts
· ACA have been training professional pilots since 1995
· ACA performed over 500 JAA and FAA approved skills tests in 2011
· 80% of ACA graduates - over the past three years - are currently working in professional flying roles as commercial pilots, flight instructors and airline FO’s
· ACA has just, this month, expanded its operation having acquired a flight training organisation by the name Elite Flight Academy in Venice Beach. This company will be re branded ACA

Summary
With the ACA Scholarship this structured full time program, in partnership with Pan Am, represents savings of up to 35% when compared to other leading European Integrated FTO’s.

Pro Pilot start dates for ACA Pro Pilot this year
· June 4, 2012
· August 6, 2012
· October 8, 2012
· December 5, 2012

At this point if either you or your sponsors have any questions please either call or email me any "

[liam548]

im not applying at all.

was just posting so others could read..

[zondaracer]

Make sure to read the fine print

Summary
With the ACA Scholarship this structured full time program, in partnership with Pan Am, represents savings of up to 35% when compared to other leading European Integrated FTO’s.But you need to compare with other European Modular FTO's, since ACA is NOT on the integrated approved list.
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/srg_lts_Approved%20Schools%20List_Doc31v107June%2012.pdf (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/srg_lts_Approved%20Schools%20List_Doc31v106.pdf)

Also, that word "scholarship" sounds nice, but in reality they overcharge by 10,000GBP and then give you a discount, call it a scholarship to make it sound nice

[SkilledBoot]

Hi guys.

There are a couple of threads floating around about Airline Career Academy, but this seems to be the more focused one.

I'm very close to attending this FTO; however coming onto this forum it has definitely given me some doubts as I take into account everyone's opinion.
So, I'm looking for some answers to my questions, as I'm sure there are others attending the ACA seminars that are happening in the near future, and I know this will prove beneficial to those in a similar situation as myself or looking for more answers!

Initially, the thing that draws me to this FTO is the price. I know that other FTOs have an approximate price of £100,000. We all know how how airlines have passed the cost of training onto the pilot, which is extremely grim for everyone, particularly chaps like myself who don't have a house to re-mortgage, or an affluent position to fund the training. Banks aren't lending, we all know the score! However, for someone like myself who has managed to get the 'scholarship' (or 'discount'), I have got the one-off chance to where I can just about afford to train for a CPL, at an affordable price in comparison to CTC/OAA/FTE etc.

I'd like to know, is it worth my while?

Bear in mind my financial situation. Having read through all of the itinerary and details of the course it comes across as competent to someone like myself, who has the ambition and desire to gain the CPL through an intensely structured course like this. Is it a waste of money? I don't have a cool £100,000 to spend or source for one of the most popular FTOs. Do people not graduate from there with a respectable JAA ATPL?

I understand that there are other methods of building up to gaining the ATPL; doing the modular route when one can afford it. Personally I'm not in a good enough job to afford that route, and I'd much prefer the integrated route.

Just a side note, I'm looking for serious advice and pointers with some fact behind them. I've scanned this forum for a good couple of years and it is an intimidating place when putting your first post, as some people take pleasure in speaking from the pedestal...so please guys, go easy! I do appreciate that people have already responded to some other queries in this thread, however if you could step out of the box and consider my situation, I'd welcome any pointers and opinions.

Please reply to me here, or a pm. I'd greatly appreciate it as I'm in a difficult situation.

[zondaracer]

Good point G-RICH. ACA does not have any JAA authority. It just appears that they are teamed up with other schools, Space Coast aviation, ProPilot, and I don't know who they are teamed with in Spain. Who do they deal with, if anybody, for JAA PPL? Standards document 31 definitely doesn't list any "Airline Career Academy" nor "Orlando Flight Training".

I googled Airline Career Academy and found this interesting article...
Airline Career Academy launches ProPilot programme | Pilot Career News (http://www.pilotcareernews.com/airline-career-academy-launches-propilot-programme/)

Notice that the guy likes to use the word "integrated."
The Programme offers a new take on the traditional “Integrated” course as Sheldon England, ACA’s European Director, explains
A bit misleading if you ask me.

[SkilledBoot]

Thanks guys, I appreciate your input! Any more is still welcome. :ok:

Anunaki, I've read your earlier posts. What would you recommend me do? Are you able to shoot me some personal advice with regards to training? I'd be most greatful.

[Alex Whittingham]

For comparison, there are other structured modular courses available, a couple are:

Multiflight (http://www.multiflight.com/flight-training-centre/fixed-wing-courses/ab-initio-atpl.php) quote £37950 for the specified training but say you should budget for £50K overall

BCFT (http://www.bcft.org.uk/jetline2009.shtml) are currently quoting £52150 all in, except accommodation.

Multiflight do their basic training in the US, BCFT in the UK, hence, probably, the price difference. It does indicate that about £50K is the correct price for a structured modular course. Outside the UK

Egnatia (http://www.egnatia-aviation.aero/?page_id=648) quote €54400, about the same, all flying in Greece.

Choose carefully, pay as you fly is a better option than pay to a schedule, because these courses can sometimes stretch out beyond the predicted timescale and pay to a schedule can have you fully paid up with six or eight months to go. In this case I would have thought that 18 months to complete is nearer the mark than 12, although it could be done in 12 with a good weather factor and efficient planning. Egnatia tell me it takes them about 13 months, all their facilities are on site and they rarely over run on time, Multiflight say 15 months with some training outsourced in the States, but it sometimes stretches to 18.

[SkilledBoot]

Thank you guys! I'm now looking right away into other schools that have been recommended, although I do remain a little anxious about taking a modular route as I’ve wanted to do my training in one big swoop….but, life is never simple hey?


Since reading the replies I’ve been focused on research, research, research. I’ve been scanning all of the UK schools and some European that have been given, and I hope to speak to a member of staff from a couple of places who can hopefully talk me through the realistic timescales of taking a modular route within their school. I understand that when you commence ATPL ground school exams, you have a time period in order to complete them, and same with the CPL. I’ve taken particular interest in Multiflight at Leeds/Bradford, BCFT, Aerolink, and Egnatia.


The general vibe I've received is that it isn't as good to flight train/build hours in Florida. I know this will have opinions from both sides.

With regards to ACA, are they not classed as 'Integrated' because they do not appear on the CAA JAR-FCL document posted earlier in the thread?

Again, I really appreciate all of the feedback that I've received from everyone in this thread and through private messages. It’s good to know that we with the same interests look out for each other! Hopefully I'll get there. :ok:

[liam548]

you have 18 months to complete all exams from taking your first one. You then have 3 years to complete your CPL.

Someone else will confirm if its also required to complete your MEIR or if that can be done at any time...?

[B737900er]

Liam after your final ATPL exam you have 36 calendar months to complete the CPL/IR.

With the current market right now I would recommend completing the CPL some time in the second year and the IR as late as possible.

[liam548]

thanks for the replies. Although ive not started this thread nor am i in a position to go down the aca route if i was it would be very tempting.

Everything ive seen from the seminar, brochures and contact suggests a professional company.

It will be interesting to hear from students as they progress if they are on these forums.


Whos actually signed up?

[timeforclarity]

So long as people are aware they're not a new company. They've just changed the name from Orlando Flight Training to that of the parent company who bought it back from Cabair.. to deflect from all the bad **** happening there in the last year or so.

Accidents, deaths.. plus fleecing of students and their money, general ineptitude and bad planning with poor planes and a worse maintenance record.

On their literature and websites... Note the poorly photoshopped ACA logo on the terminal building at Kissimmee after the Cabair one was taken down.

[tarom]

I'm usualy a reader and not a poster when it comes to online forums but i feel compelled to write a few words about OFT in Kissimmee or whatever they call themselves now ACA.

Although i got my JAA PPL with them, passed all my exams first time, the experience was terrible to put it mildly.

They will stress you, try to rob you and suck all the love for aviation you have in you.

Went back last year for a routine BFR. Was belittled by the chief for ruining his weekend (was friday and he wanted to leave the office at 14.00), heard instructors yelling at their students in the lounge area, etc.

Subsequently went to Sunstate acroos the field and took my CPL and IR. Best decision i ever made.

[themagicman00]

ABOUT FLY ACA
Two add my 2 cents. These guys run a perfect scam, they sweet talk these south american students into joining their school at $45,000 each.They promise them that there is no need for them to speak english, they live in some small houses where they share all amenities. There was a student who had over 70 hours waiting for his PPL and since he didn't speak english, they would have to schedule the check-ride with their FAA Examiner friend who didn't care if the pilot spoke english or not, but since most students didn't speak english, they would have to wait months to do a private pilot license. They fly antiquated aircraft, the maintenance is by far subpar....many incidents in my short time there. One aircraft ran out of real state in Everglades, almost completely destroyed aircraft and one destroyed aircraft in Opa Locka during an engine fire during start....two PPL had no idea of the Emergency procedures.
Chose wisely, these guys run a sweet scam....what goes around, comes around. Don't sell your self short, these guys will sell you gum for gold, pretty website, airlines logos, they talk about ATP....all BS.
BE CAREFUL WITH FLY ACA

[portos8]

Eastern Europe has good options for modular training. I went to Bartolini (www.flyinpoland) which gets overall good marks from students but I am sure there are more if you look for them.

Going modular saves you so much cash that at the end you will have money left to live off when you are jobless:}

[Lightning Mate]

iPad app

Beware that.

I was was supposed to teach the ATPL syllabus from it and couldn't.

I ignored it and did it my way.

[Becketts]

As with any flight school (or any business) the people with bad experiences are much more likely to post than the people with good experiences.

Just to add a few facts to some of the above posts...The students (no instructor) who over shot the runway at the Everglades were in violation of school policy by being there (2400ft runway is well under the company mins), they also botched the landing and failed to go around - you can hardly blame the school for that.

The accident in 2010 mentioned by Arunaki (above) was not in an OFT/ACA aircraft, but did involve students and an instructor from the school.

The engine fire - I know for a fact that engine fire drills are hammered into the students throughout the entire training regime, so again - schools fault that the students didn't follow procedures?

I wholeheartedly agree that the command of the english language is somewhat lacking amongst some of the students at the school, and I can't comment on the package they're sold. However, any proactive student browsing these forums will do their homework before spending thousands of dollars on a course. It will be obvious to anybody that they will need to speak english, and if they don't already then they should learn to. Even if you speak enough just to get by, it's going to extend your training by a fair amount of hours. I have seen people take 70-80 hours to get a PPL (Isn't 60-70 the US average?) but then I've also seen others (at this school!) pass well with less than 50.

Many of the problems come from the attitude (that some of!) the students seem to have - get by with as little effort as possible. Every pilot here will have done some sort of solo hour building to gain experience, much of that cross country. It's designed to be a learning experience, however it's treated as an inconvenience. The amount of pilots that I have seen hour building by following the GPS on an iPad (rather than map and compass) was disappointing. This level of effort spills across into their instrument training and subsequently their commercial training - and then they complain that the course has cost $$$'s more than it should have.

I'm not saying any of this to defend the school, just to demonstrate that it's not just the school at fault, it's also the students mentality.

[Becketts]

I don't like wrong...maybe differently informed? :)

Simply put - you get what you pay for. The course is very competitively priced, but you're not paying Oxford sums, so don't expect brand new shiny aircraft. That being said, the Kissimmee base has 5 newish (<13yrs old, 2 G1000 equipped) Cessna's available for those that don't like the cadets - just expect to pay a little more.

All the incidents you list can be attributed (for the most part) to pilot error - Runway overshoots (poor planning/decision making), Engine fire's (improper start procedure...yes that's right!). The very sad accident that involved the Scottish Brother AND Sister was not the result of mechanical failure or any other shortcomings in the schools aircraft. Like I said, I'm not saying the maintenance is A+, just remember the PA-28's are getting on a bit, things are bound to break. I happen to know two of the mechanics there very well, and I know for an absolute fact that there is nothing that they wouldn't do to ensure that the aircraft are airworthy and in fit condition for flight. If they were not happy with it, they would not sign it off.

There is no high horse, I'm just a firm believer in taking charge of your own training rather than expecting to be spoon fed by your instructor/ground instructor. Everything you are supposed to know is in those books you are given in the beginning, and that is made pretty clear - yet the books don't get read and the ground school gets blamed for the students lack of knowledge. Maybe he did use his phone the whole time - I'd ask for a refund if you're paying for it - but ultimately it's down to the student to take control of their own training.

I know some very excellent students at that school that will go far in this industry, but I also know many more lazy ones that are wasting their money. I understand that you want to let others know about your poor experience, but I'm mindful that this doesn't turn into another "Bash OFT/ACA" thread, because based on MY experience with the school, it's really not deserved

[B2N2]

I really do not understand how you can defend any of that.

the people with bad experiences are much more likely to post than the people with good experiences.



No they are not, the opposite is true that is why so many of the *cough* JAA/EASA certified schools in Florida still manage to find students.
And then mystery posters come sing the praise......:rolleyes:

taking charge of your own training
Uh..no you don't because you have no idea.
That is why you need to listen to the school and listen to the Instructor as far as how and when to study certain topics.

Books don't read themselves, there we agree :ok:

[Becketts]

Ofcourse you need direction from the instructor, what I meant was if you're not happy with the depth of a lesson on a subject (for example) - then ask for more detail, ask someone else to explain it (another instructor maybe) or read up on it. People are all too happy to be spoon fed the information rather than seeking it out themselves. By take charge I mean get involved.

I guess I am the mystery poster singing their praises! I just came on to correct a few non facts that were posted above, not sell a pro pilot course

[pilotnmech]

What about the in-flight prop. loss in June?

[Becketts]

Not even the prop manufacturer could explain that one. The instructor had just changed aircraft (A solo student had damaged the prop on an airport light and not told anyone) to the aircraft in question - the instructor is also an A&P so you can bet the prop on the new aircraft was heavily scrutinised. Yet these things happen and are (in the absence of a crystal ball) unavoidable

[fiffer]

Knew some people that went there and did not have 1 good thing to say. Anyone considering to go I would avoid at all costs after what they told me. Unsafe planes, costs more than advertised & a complete scam of a place. Buy cheap pay double - remembert that!

[pilotnmech]

The manufacturer said from what they remember the prop. was at least 3X past the recommended overhaul date, and the crack started at the trailing edge. The student had inspected another aircraft first that had a prop. strike in Lake Whales after a student went off of the end of the runway there. The instructor, and I believe 2 students jumped back in the airplane, and flew it back, damaged prop. and all. That was highly illegal, and dangerous. The place is now Pan Am academy. If the same owners, and management are still involved, it's the same operation.

[BigGrecian]

Just noticed whilst replying to http://www.pprune.org/professional-pilot-training-includes-ground-studies/522727-sevis-approved-schools-advice-miami-schools.html

That Orlando Flight Training / Space Coast Aviation / Pan Am for Orlando and Space coast locations are not on the SEVIS approved list anymore....which means they can't accept international students.