Join BA or RAF ?

[StillTaxying]

If you had the choice (as I do) of starting a career as a pilot with British Airways or the Royal Air Force, Which would you choose ?

Is BA too boring ?
Does the RAF take too much out of you ?
Is BA good for family life ?

I'd love to hear from FJ mates, BA pilots and especially people who have done both.

[AV8-OR]

Mate,do RAF.

1. You'll have a whole world of fun, whether it be FJ, RW, or ME.

2. You won't get to gouge around in a shiny aluminium pursuit ship anywhere else.

3. You can do BA later, but not the other way round.

4. People do gripe, but they do in all walks of life.

You won't regret it,

Regards

AV8-OR

[Tandemrotor]

AV8-OR is absolutely right.

Enjoy probably the best flying available while you are young, with few responsibilities. (But don't forget you are being paid to put your ass on the line should Tony's cronies so decide.)

Leave early, and reap the not insignificant rewards of an airline career.

However, when/if you get to BA, do us all a favour, and don't try to make a case for enhanced seniority due to your military service. It ALWAYS sounds pathetic, and the choice was yours.

Good luck.



[This message has been edited by Tandemrotor (edited 15 September 2000).]

[fifthcolumns]

RAF first then BA or any airline later.
I doubt if any ex RAF types really
regret it.
Military flying is easily the most interesting
flying you will ever do. After several interesting
and even fun years you will become disenchanted
and leave, seeing out the rest of your career
flying shiny jets and nostalgically recounting
your adventures to bored colleagues in the
airline of your choice.
By the way I hate you, imagine having a
choice of the RAF or BA. I am insanely
jealous.
Anyway, good luck, either choice is great.

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

The position you are in is an enviable one....however, I would encourage anyone to have a bash at the military side of things first - purely in flying terms. There is a lot to be said for flying in the Air Force - the attributes are well documented on this forum (as are the disadvantages) but, and this really is a F****ing big but, the commitment has got to be there to succeed. Unless you are prepared to put up with bucketloads of cak to reap the rewards of OLF (Operational Low Flying) or such like, then don't bother. If you do decide to take the Queen's shilling (and that's not such a bad deal, financially) remember that you can always transfer to the airlines later.

I've had 12 years of wonderful flying (with associated ups and downs like any job) and am leaving in the not-too-distant future with no regrets as I feel that I've given as much as I have taken (lots in other words). The Air Force is a fantastic environment to learn and practice your trade, but it is a two way street....one day the country may ask you to do your job for real - will you be able to do it? If so, RAF first, Airbus second - if not, Airbus!

[N2000]

Join BA, we so like it when we shut the engines down, and the whining continues......

[FlyNavy]

The RAF is not the only place you can fly the pointy nosed hadware, don't forget the good old Navy. Flying a fast jet is the best fun you can have and doing it off a ship will test you and reward you beyond your imagination. I've done it for 20 years and I'd start again tomorrow (if I didn't have grey hair!). Go for it!

[MrBernoulli]

Er..........before even considering the Navy you want to square away whether living on a boat is really your thing. It could sure take the gloss off avaiting if you don't like living in cramped quarters.

[Professor Longhair]

I got offered both back in 1989, and took BA, after a very agonising decision-process. I was right on the upper age limit for the RAF (even negotiated an exemption to finish my degree); my decision most probably would have been different had I been in the bright flush of those teenage years.

I don't regret it. It would have been really sweet to have flown something pointy and fast, ( it might have been blunt and slow as well, remember) but I've had a great time in the airline world. BA are a very good employer, despite the grumbling from the pews!

Good luck. Only you can decide, and you are doing the right thing getting opinions.

[Tandemrotor]

Professor Longhair

Why did you decide not to join the RAF (perhaps that would help "Still Taxying") and when you say "it could have been something blunt and slow", do you mean like an Airbus or a Boeing?

[Professor Longhair]

TandemRotor, no problem....

Had there been a cast-iron guarantee that I would have been succesful on fast-jets, that may have tipped the balance; totally impossible to give, of course. It had been pointed out to me at interview, (twice, once with the uni. liason officer, and again at Biggin Hill) that at the relatively ancient age of 23.5 I would have to consider ending up in Transport Command as a strong possibility.

Also, I wanted to fly more than I wanted the role of Military Officer, which should also be a consideration, I feel. My backround was in and around the music business, too, which as a commercial pilot I have been able to keep in touch with; the military would have made that impossible.

The reference to blunt and slow was merely intended to point out that it is not all fast jets. :-) No offence intended, if you inferred any.

Sooo, had MY circumstances been different, my decision may have been different. Had I been 17 at the time, or from a Military background, or solely wanted nothing else in life than to fly fast-jets, that would have swayed the balance. Too many variables to give a simple answer, but I'm happy with it, and thoroughly enjoy my job today.

(Would have been nice, however.......)

[This message has been edited by Professor Longhair (edited 16 September 2000).]

[John Farley]

RAF for all the reasons given above and plenty more.

However, I am not absolutely certain if you are trying to choose between two actual job offers or two routes of application for training?

If both have offered to train you than go back to line one above (and many congrats BTW)

BUT just in case you are trying to make your mind up who to apply to for possible training then don’t let the RAF even THINK you would consider an airline career.

So far as the actual flying training content is concerned there can be no real comparison between the two routes. By the time you reach your first squadron the military will probably have spent £2M on you. Whereas it will probably cost BA £150K tops to put you in your first right hand seat with pax.

JF

[MileHi]

The above have made some good points. The question you need to ask yourself is "where do I want to be in 10 years?" Personally, I never had the option you do, but after an Airforce career (not RAF but close) and now flying for a major Airline (not BA, beter) I have realised the following. My best mates, best flying, most fun are all Airforce related. Job security and career wise you can't beat a major Airline.

You will be making a sacrifice one way or the other. If you go RAF you lose on BA seniority, and believe me in an airline seniority is EVERTHING. If you go BA you will lose on the best years of your life.......

Best of luck.

----------

Happiness is low-level 500 kts

[EESDL]

When I got the bug, never even considered airlines as the way to go flying.
I thought, rightly or wrongly, that flying was about freedom, and, despite the many regs, you have a heck load more freedom flying in the military.

Go mil and enjoy.
Good luck and don't mention to anybody that you even considered airlines. You can go airlines when the mil flying has frightened you fartless and you hanker to drive a bus full of Trolly Dollies.

Remember, women are OK, but you can't beat the real thing....

[YakYak]

RAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAF RAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAF RAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAF RAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAF RAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAF RAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAF RAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAFRAF

Hope I made that clear.

Try making a comparison between driving and flying. You can either:

a) Drive a large bus along a pre-determined route, letting the computer do 99% of everything for you, dependant upon a ground crew who fell into their job because they didn't try hard at school - and that hate you for being better than them; or

b) Drive an F1 racing car around a difficult and taxing circuit at stupid speeds, supported by a pit crew made up of the most skilled people in the profession willing you to suceed.

Obviously the bus driver doesn't endanger his life every day, and has a little more job security/seniority. But honestly, which would you prefer?

Plus, imagine the situation in a bar:

"Hi! I work for BA"
"Hi! I'm a fast-jet fighter pilot".

Which one would the girlies flock around?

I was on my way back from Corfu yesterday AM, and saw a pilot and FO in the duty free shop. They looked pissed off and bored, and were buying pointless prezzies for wifeys. At the same time I knew that every military pilot in the UK would still be in the mess in No 5s, burning pianos and downing port in memory of the Battle of Britain.

Once more, which would you prefer???

Yakkers

[Helmut Wisorcover]

Still jet lagged, Yakkers?

[YakYak]

Affirm Wisorcover

[stiknruda]

RAF

then airlines

(and if you still want to flash around the sky in a wee pocket rocket: yoyo-ing on passing bogeys, you'll be able to afford to buy your own and take it out to play at w/e's and days off).


I have never laughed or cried as much as when I was in, and I left 18 years ago!

sNr

[Tonkenna]

I was indeed there Yakkers on Saturday am in No5s drinking, well what ever was left, and it was a supherb nite (thanks PMC if you see this, the official letter is on the way).

RAF first! I am still not convinced that I want to leave, particularly after a night like that. I just don't think the arilines can even begin to match a good mess night. I have not flown fast jets as such (though I did beat three F3s back from Iceland a few years ago, the old Vicky 10 is still pretty quick) and I certainly haven't flown anything new (though that is about to change as well) but I would not change anything I have done so far cause I have had a ball.

Yeah, life is s***e sometimes and the jets keep breaking, but mil flying is fun challenging and always different. The training is second to none (at the moment, lets hope they don't civilianise anymore) and the people are generaly fantastic.

So go for it! :) :)

[This message has been edited by Tonkenna (edited 17 September 2000).]

[Ivor Fynn]

Do the Mil flying first. Even though we bitch and moan constantly, I'm quite sure that everybody has a ball doing the Mil flying. Especially the licensed hooliganism down in the weed-osphere.

KTTLTF

[MileHi]

Yak,

100% correct on the advise and Bus/F1 comparison.....
However, got to burst your bubble, the girls flock around the guy with the fatest wallet buying them drinks.......

--------
Mach 2 and counting!

[jet jones]

I would say Mil...the flying if that is what you enjoy is bound to be brilliant..I just want to fly low and twisted..you cant do that in the airlines..I missed out on the RAF chasing sponsorships..Now on the wrong side of twenty five I am off to sandhurst (fingers crossed)...to fly helos..instead of doing some boring job and going modular..Airlines can wait..I can do that in my forties and at retirement pace...I know the dangers of Mil life but it excites me..I guess it would if you've been a bean counter

------------------
live to fly

[attackattackattack]

I know the link below has an Army flavour and you've asked about the RAF, but to underline the fun aspects of mil flying the caption to the linked picture reads:

"You didn't learn this from BA, did you."

http://www.deltaweb.co.uk/eagles/flip_7.jpg

[This message has been edited by attackattackattack (edited 19 September 2000).]

[Lucifer]

It all depends on whether you consider the RAF to be another job or not, and if it is worth doing it for all the positive side of the flying, in light of the negative sides eg. further reductions in strength and postings far away from home, when, bear in mind, that partners now are probably less willing to follow you if they have their own careers.

To answer the main questions, (1) NO, BA and the other airlines are definitely not boring. Considering that you may end up on Multi-Engine in RAF, this is totally wrong to say. The difference lies between fast jet and airlines, and the environment in the latter is much more that of an operating one, and FJ is hands-on, and very stressful in a different way. Airlines are not boring: just say that to a BA pilot who has to think about very similar things to the RAF pilot: flight planning, fuel etc. Not to mention some of the approaches eg Mauritius, new Hong Kong with terrain and windshear, and the backward African destinations eg. Lagos and Abuja.

RAF can take a lot out of you, but so can airlines: both require extremely hard work, and although RAF has a habit of putting bases in the most remote places in the UK, you would be overseas for more nights in BA. Remember how hard low costs work their pilots as well: even though you can be home every night, the days are long.

For family life, Brize for 16 years could be more stable than BA starting at regional, then moving to Heathrow later. Temptation for affairs etc has more opportunity in BA, such that it can be just as unstable for family life, but in general, RAF can muck you about just at the moment when you least want it.

You will have a whole load of fun socially wherever you go. Squadron=very good friends but can get insular; BA=variety each time you fly, and more easy to be low profile in large organisation.

True you can do BA later, but what about pension, seniority, and there are BA jobs at the moment due to vast swathes retiring at the same time. What about in 16 years, there may be a recession, and no jobs for Flt Lt X, who has been a Flt Lt since he was 23. 16 years is a long time: a lot can change with successive governments, and its a pity that short service no longer operates.

Scarlet Pimpernel says it well, but what will the future bring: nobody can tell. Perhaps even BA will go down the pan, and the government will realise they need to buy some decent aircraft for real money, if they want RAF to operate well. Stranger things have happened, but with the current setbacks in the training system, Tucano, Hawk getting old, Jag old, Eurofighter late, and JSF coming in probably after you have retired, things do on the face of it seem bad. Tech problems must be sorted and things will get worse before they get better, but chances are we will end up with a small RAF, still overtasked in the future. You also have to deal with the problem of secondary duties, and of course, if you are brilliant and get promoted, and stay on, you get promoted out of the aircraft to a desk: so much for an incentive to stay after 16/38.

RAF can be extremely 'jockish' in a way, if you're not into destroying things every time you get pissed, but worse stories have come from downroute in BA.

Misleading perhaps that RAF spend 2m. on training, when that is considered as covering all costs of running OCU squadrons etc. More is done in simulators and for cheaper in a more cost-conscious environment in BA, and you spend 5-15 years under supervision of a Captain in BA before you get command, whereas in RAF, you are trained right up to commander in FJ world, requiring more training. It is all different training, and neither should be judged better as it has a different end goal.

Definitely do not consider telling RAF about airlines, but go to UAS first if you are at uni, so you know what you are getting yourself into exactly before you make any decision. The big mistake comes when you look purely at one path, without knowing the faintest thing about how the other operates.

Bus along pre-determined route? No way: ever tried trying to get people on HF, looking out for emergency airfields on ETOPS, for what could be extremely challenging landings, sorting fuel, FMC, and admittedly the Telegraph crossword a bit! Destination arrival routing at airfields, that you have never before visited is hardly akin to driving a bus. True, the computers help more now, but they halp more on GR4 now, Typhoon etc. Autopilot out though is more fun, along the valley bottoms at night (but you can do that in autopilot as well!)

It also depends what you want to make of your career: you caould be a manager in BA, or a trainer (getting paid for the extra work!), or you can climb up the RAF to CAS perhaps!

Whatever you do, you will have fun flying, and the more to bitch about in RAF will be made up for in great friendships and laughs. BA is good as well, with the greater pay, and more stability. I wouldn't like to tell you to go one way or the other however, until you have experienced BOTH yourself. Only you can decide, as what others experienced in the past may have changed by now.

[This message has been edited by Lucifer (edited 19 September 2000).]

[fobotcso]

Well this is a nice simple question, ST, but the answer isn’t! And, BTW, how did you manage to cock up the screen width of this thread on my monitor?

Most opinions here are biased. We tend to justify the choices we have made or that have been forced on us, and we form strong loyalties on irrational grounds. (eg Who, normally, would otherwise in their right mind, support Southampton Football Club?) You can only get an informed opinion from someone who has done both and there would appear to be only one of those here so far; he has not given you a firm answer! But the Prof reveals a hankering for a lost opportunity. As he says, you have to take into account the other factors in your life.

We need to hear from more identifiably “Dual Qualified” pilots.

All flying has the potential for variety and challenge; that’s at the heart of why we do it. My guess is that you will prefer Military Flying if you can accept with equanimity being buggered about more than the average. There are many tin gods with little empires claiming insight into the “big picture” and justifying frequent changes of policy on the grounds of expediency and the exigencies of the service. I’m not referring there to National Defence Policy, but you must also accept that your whole life can change dramatically when there is a change of political situation, government and/or defence policy – as mine did in 1957. The “Plus” is responsibility earlier (see “Tin Gods” above) and all the other opportunities described by the others here. Since retiring to Geriatrica I have met a good number of Commercial pilots and have found it easy to identify with them – especially after several glasses of wine. But they give the impression that their lives are less confused than I remember in the RAF. All right, I’ll get flak with stories about frequent roster changes, unequal struggles to get up the seniority ladders etc, but there is not the pressure of structured professional development that there is in the Services.

I’m searching for the heart of this matter because the answer to your question could help others as well as you. And if you really have got firm offer from both the RAF and BA, I too hate you! (Only joking; very well done.)

Choose carefully and have a good life.

[Floppy Link]

can you see a pattern here?

RAF first, doesn't matter whether FJ, heli or Group 2..I did helicopters (Grp3) and now "fly" 757/767.

Miss my helicopters, miss the RAF, and that's 6 years later.

FL:

[fobotcso]

Me too FL. Funny thing is that, although I flew some quick pointy stuff, its the tactical RW flying I daydream most about; but then I'm a very long way from all my operational flying. It seems such a long time ago... :)

[Akwah_Plain]

If President Blair gets his way, there won't be any option! Seriously, (and having done both RAF & commercial flying) the BA option would probably tempt me more now than the RAF. However, it all depends on your ambitions - if you are young (I suppose you must be, to make the application criteria!), free & single, then the RAF can be a fantastic environment. If you have plans for more stability in your life, then BA would be better; also, you would be "x" years ahead on seniority & pension, and WELL ahead on salary!! Married life is not the best in the RAF at present, with "over-stretch" in many areas, especially the 100+ shortage of FJ pilots. Consequently, lots of time away, and every time Robin Cook sticks his oar in, off go the boys to some other unhealthy part of the world for a while.

Best of luck for which ever option you choose...... and don't forget, you could take your partner on BA, anywhere in the world, quite cheaply. Of course, the other option is to indulge with the RAF - not very far, and, in antiquated VC10s or Tri*, with no guarantee of getting back home on time!! YakYak needs to do some more market research!!

By all means, send me an e-mail if you want more information.

[Pickled]

A good friend of mine managed to postpone BA for 1 year. He joined the RAF to see if it was for him (he had already done 3 years on the UAS).

He told everyone in the RAF that he would only stay in the Service if he was treated "like an officer and gentleman". Not surprisingly he left the RAF after one year and joined BA. He could not cope with poor treatment. He is now extremely well placed and very happy in BA.

The RAF would certainly allow you to do real flying, but there is quite a price to pay. If I were you I would try to copy my friend and see if you feel the price is really worth paying for you.

I have no regrets whatsoever that I flew with the RAF first. A lifetime of pure civilian flying would not appeal to me.

[YakYak]

I consent that the RAF is not a bed of roses - but if you're young (very much so in my case), single, out for a good time, and quite look forward to seeing those hairy places Robin Cook always interferes with - it's great (so I've been told).

Perhaps it is safe to say that the RAF is good until you've passed through the 'life fast, die young' phase, and then it's a good idea to move onto the airlines to support the family like a good chap.

But then, there's we women who (traditionally) don't have to support the family. No secure sensible job for me then - Wuuhheeey!!!

[EESDL]

Floppy-Link
You should have signed-up for 16!!
Are you still commuting from Fife?

[yoyonow]

Going back to the original point. I was lucky enough to fly pointy jets for 16 years. I spent this time with a fantastic group of guys and girls, visited numerous countries and had a £20 million go cart to use with like minded people. Pay was on the good side of OK and the social life was second to none. But its a sport for young players and the RAF changed as much as I did. I therefore left and now have a thoroughly enjoyable job flying an airliner for a major UK company. The people are just as interesting and from a wide range of backgrounds, I enjoy going to work, but for understandable different reasons than I did when I was twenty. Lets not kid ourselves, there is no buzz from civilian flying, its operating an office but its rewarding when you do it well. Overall, if you want to have a great time and feel you need a real story for the grandchildren then join the military first and then grow up to do a real job. As for the poor soul who wasn't treated as an officer in his first year stupid *rse.

[whizzjet]

I have done both, RAF first and BA (eventually after the hold pool).

Would I change it NO, but thats me.

Interesting back in 1986 I had to make the same choice that you have now. After 10+ years in a green bag I left and met a mate who went to BA, he was by then a Captain and earning 3 times my manx salary but seemed to think I`d had the better time.

Now I`m going 757 LHR with 20 years to go with BA, I won`t approach his money but boy have I got some good mates and memories.

------------------
Whizzjet

All leave is cancelled until morale improves.

Never confuse experience with competence

[Cattivo]

Its got to be RAF.
I can't believe somebody is paying me for this.
Yes, there's crap to put up with but its heavily outweighed by all good stuff and not everybody gets the chance to be a military pilot so take it. You can fly the fanny bowser later on.

I think its evident from all the ex-RAF geezer Posts what your choice should be.Once you get the old buggers started they never stop.

Good Luck

[Alpha]

What your choice should be!!!!!!!! What is good for you is more appropriate! Don't go just as it is a good piss up and the colleagues are 'good blokes'. Join if you really want to, and that is your type of flying. Airlines may be different, but they are not fanny jets. I know ex-RAF who struggle in them as it is so different: as in CRM! Listen to nobody who is biased one way or the other: get as much experience of both as you can. Even consider joining the city crowd and keeping it as a hobby: no one person but yourself can make the right decision for you!

[BEagle]

Perhaps this thread should be entitled 'Join Civil or Military' rather than 'BA or RAF'?

The RAF of today is not the organisation I joined; see, for example, Mowgli's highly pertinent thread concerning the article in Flight International. The balance between quality of life and exciting flying is one that individuals need to decide for themselves; however in the Services we suffer from ever-moving goalposts, equipment which is years out of date, needless cutbacks and pinpricks, the constant bleating about 'there's no money for that' - yet we can afford to build a gin palace for future staff officers at Shrivenham?
My advice for those seeking a career in flying would be to join the RAF for only the shortest period of commissioned service that is on offer for GD(P), fly a fast-jet or multi-engine aircraft for your time BUT then to leave for a second career in the airlines. Unlike the airlines, the RAF has yet to treat its long serving pilots with any more priority or respect than virtual newcomers - you end up being just a pawn in an impossible manning situation no matter what your experience or qualifications are.
People have criticised 'airline bean-counters' and 'management' - but their layers of management are as nothing compared to the Services'. At the end of the day, airlines have to make a profit to remain in business, they have to comply with changing regulations and they have to compete with others. Whereas the Services have to discharge Government policies with whatever budget they are allowed, they don't have to compete with anyone else except to kill them, their aircraft are frequently operated with inadequate equipment under a vague 'military exemption' clause and their employees have no say in their pay, terms or conditions.
Whilst it used to be fun whether you were a student in a JP doing aeros above the clouds, chasing 104s around RAFG in an adequate fighter, crossing the pond in a reasonably modern airliner, chasing submarines around the ocean with the best kit there was, or whatever else, the reality now is that you'll be learning to fly in a contractor's aeroplane that isn't even allowed to fly at 250', doing basic flying either on another contractor's aeroplane or, if it isn't still grounded, another propeller-driven aeroplane with less performance than the jet it replaced. Then AFTS in a clapped-out Hawk or an even more clapped-out Jetstream. Then onto the front-line which is doing more and more with less and less - and there's no money to improve existing aircraft or to replace them as all available funding disappears into the black hole of the Euro-buffHoon.
Everyone is noticing their 'BUGGERATION EXCEED' caption flickering on and off more and more these days - I'm finding it increasingly difficult to cancel mine as well. Compare this with the feedback from those who've left to join the airlines - which is universally "If I'd known that it was going to be this good, I'd have left years ago".

[This message has been edited by BEagle in deference to our German friends - I had spelled 'flickering' as 'fickering'. Perhaps a Freudian slip? (edited 01 October 2000).]


[This message has been edited by BEagle (edited 01 October 2000).]

[Nil nos tremefacit]

Et tu BEagle?

[BEagle]

Et ego! Oh - and StillTaxying, I would suggest you JOIN BA if you wish to work for a caring employer!!

[This message has been edited by BEagle (edited 01 October 2000).]

[Vasco1]

Right, tuppenceworth acoming...

Yakkers, sounds like you'll fit in just fine with the crabs. Absolutely tip top appraisal of groundies abilities there. And you just a nav (well, you're not even that yet are you?). I know you think you're absolutely f*****g amazing at the moment cos you've managed to get in, albeit in your second choice role, and the chat is flowing like that of an inebriated Jagmate, but if I were you I'd wind your neck in. IOT to come eh. You think you're not going to meet any lowly NCOs at Cranwell? Ah, suppose you had thought of that, but then the un-educated drop out masses can't operate PC's can they? Have to say 10W pretty much summed up everything I wanted to say about your outburst so I'll leave that there.

Onto the proper topic. How's this for a plan. (It's mine actually, but it aint copyrighted and I'm sure you'll agree it's pretty cunning)

Turn down the offer to join Liz's finest (that's the RN before anyone gets uppity) and take the offered place at BA. Do the training, get posted and start earning a wedge and actually be 'front line' before either retirement or PVR cos you're so pissed off with the company.

This brings lots of travel opportunities to lovely places with great people (and I admit, sometimes not so great people) who if they like you will invite you out for drinks with them. Gorgeous lot this lot, some of them not so gorgeous, but the proportions are somewhat better your average rock ape. And by lovely places I mean the Carribean, the States, Middle East etc. etc. Not windswept South Atlantic rocks or other exotic places.

Spend some of your wedge on a gucci pad, fit it in style. Beats condemned anyday. Live a life, a good life. Impress your mates and other people (who will like you so much more because you don't introduce yourself as Gobby ****, Tuccano wannabe, Royal Air Force. When it comes out in the conversation what you actually do, rather than ramming it down their throats they'll be even more impressed.

Andd then, as everyone seems to be so pissed off that if they'd gone in they'd have got FJ (hmmm, Yakkers, the Chinook?), here comes the best bit. Go do a few aeros in a Firefly at weekends with your SHAR mate, getting approximately more flying done in one weekend than he does in several months. Then, you and a few mates thin out to the states and purchase an F86 for, I'm told, about 60K. Then nip over there every now and then, when not flying 'boring stuff' and have your fill.

How's about that then?