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Johnny_Bravo
27th Nov 1999, 01:07
A neighbour of a friend of mine has an extremely keen 'Airline Pilot wannabee' 15 yr old son. He wants advice on how to go about realising his dream. What are the various options open to him in the UK?

corsair
27th Nov 1999, 06:19
Get Santa to buy him 'To Be A Pilot' for Christmas. Or 'Flying the Big Jets' this will give him an insight into the trade.

A trial flight is often a good idea it might encourage him or put him off.
Alternatively beat him until he learns the error of his ways.

StudentInDebt
27th Nov 1999, 15:00
See if there is a branch of the Air Training Corp or if his school has a CCF section. These provide good opportunities for free flying and will also ensure that the young lad is not roaming the streets, can of tennets extra in hand - ah the days of youth :)

If you have a local airport see if they need anyone for washing/moving/refuelling planes. Dunno where you live but some pilot supplies shops like to have a steady supply of parttime labour for the weekends as well.

Stall Inducer
27th Nov 1999, 17:05
Firstly if he has a computer I'd recomend he get MS 2000 to keep him happy for the next few years - it's surprising how much you can learn off it.
Secoundly I would advise him him to continue education until at least A-level and then either look at sponsership / self sponsership /University course. Self sponsership is very expensive about 50K for a CAA/JAA approved school to take him from scratch to a full Commercial licence in about 12-18 months.
In the mean time joining an Air Training Corp or CCF is an excellent way of getting airbourne for free - I did it for a couple of years and enjoyed a few hours flying aerobatics in a Chipmonk. Any other flying activity he can get involved in is good - sponsers often like to see a track record of enthusiasm.
Lastly it is possible - I was in the same position when I was 15 - it looks impossible , but 5 years on I'm about to start my first airline Job. Good Luck to him.

JBeecham
27th Nov 1999, 19:18
He may benefit by writing to some of the airlines such as British Airways regarding their sponsorship schemes for cadet pilots. You will get some helpful and positive responses. I did this when I was about that age and I received a lot of helpful advice.
Also take a trial flying lesson to see if he likes it. This is a good way of deciding whether or not this is the career for him.

Good Luck!

Johnny_Bravo
27th Nov 1999, 22:12
Thanks for the replies so far.

How does the the self-improver system work these days in the UK?

Shanwick Shanwick
27th Nov 1999, 22:43
JB,

As of the 1st Jan 2000 the "self improver" scheme no longer exists.

It's join the military, fork out £60k+ or persuade BA to sponsor which is the best route at the end of the day.

StudentInDebt
27th Nov 1999, 23:08
The self-improver route will still exist under JAR although it will be slightly different.

The Modular route allows you spread out your training as the self-improver route once did although it will be more time consuming and expensive. The major difference is that you will get a full CPL at 200 hours but you're still going to need an IR to excercise most of your CPL priviliges.

David Johnson
28th Nov 1999, 00:36
Hi,
I remember a few years back now when I was in the same situation. Whilst it is important to have a clear idea of what is involved - I think a degree of "get out there and do what you can" is also needed. I will explain. If you sit down and wait, wait and wait nothing will ever happen - you need to be out there doing something. It is only becoming part of the aviation industry in any sense that opportunities will arise - and a good breadth of knowledge be learned.

The most economical way of "getting out and doing something" is to persue gliding. Gliding promotes and indeed enhances a number of qualities that are vital in becoming an airline pilot.

To find the nearest club for your next door neighbour - look at the below link:

http://www.gliding.co.uk/

I will now put below a post by myself - 28th July 1999. I think that it contains a number points - and indeed you may wish to ask questions on certain points mentioned.


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The Air League

I have found as a member of The Air League that it offers people like yourself invaluable information and the opportunity to try and attain a flying scholarship. To be eligible for the flying scholarship and all of the other benefits you must become a member. A very helpful service that the organisation offers is that if you write to them with your current status and aspirations - they will give you advice on how to obtain your goal - plus ideas on how to become more "involved" in the aerospace industry.

RAF Flying Scholarship

The RAF Flying Scholarship is worth applying for when you are 16 years of age. With a RAF Flying Scholarship, you could receive 20 hours of free flying at a civilian flying club. The scheme allows young men and women who are keen on a career in the RAF to discover the excitement of flying without having to make any commitment for the future. The training is in light aircraft at an approved civilian flying club, and normally includes about 8 to 10 hours' solo flying, plus full instruction in ground subjects.

Gliding

It is important to realise that no-matter what you fly - the same professionalism is needed. Gliding is a superb introduction to flying and the same key skills are present as in other forms of flying. You will learn how to work as part of a team,trust,professionalism and the ability to make well judged decisions in less than perfect circumstances.

I will just do a quote here from "Flyer-Learn to Fly Guide 1999/2000"

"If I ruled the world every fixed wing aviator would be required to do at least a dozen trips in a glider before going anywhere near a powered aircraft. Why? Well, I suppose a good analogy is that it's a bit like the difference between riding a motorbike and driving a car. Obviously, bikes, like gliders, are a lot more fun but it's also about being in touch with the elements. The skilled biker is very much more aware of the medium he is travelling on - the surface of the road, the curve of the bend-and this remains when he gets back in his car. In a similar fashion the glider pilot is much more in tune with the sky and this can be extremely useful, even for pilots of large jet aircraft.

I've always thought that to be really good at flying you have to be able to see the wind, and even a relatively small amount of glider training can be of tremendous value here. The ability to be able to clearly visualise the fluid mass you are flying is,in my opinion, absolutely fundemental if one aspires to be a truly proficient airman.

Quite apart from teaching the importance of accurate flying and providing a fundamental grounding in the basics of good stick and rudder co-ordination it will also help considerably with your ability to cope should the motor fail. Finally, not only will you learn a tremendous amount about how the sky works, soaring also offers greater understanding of why the sky works."

As I am sure you are aware - gliding is a labour intensive sport. Unlike powered flying you cannot just book your hour lesson - turn up and go. In reality you have to be at the airfield for the whole day. Again, you will learn more important qualities from this fact. Patience, willingness to help others etc..

More about Flying Scholarships

If you decide to try and get the Flying Scholarship from either The Air League or RAF - or both..make sure that you photocopy your application form. I have sent both my application forms off - however I have copies of both. At an interview you will more than likely be asked on certain things that you have written on your application form - to check that what you say at interview - and what you have put on your application form both concur. Both the RAF and The Air League forms ask for any flying experience - so you can put your gliding time down.

Another reason why it is important to take advantage of the scholarship schemes is that it will give you invaluable experience of interviews. Very few people now have had interview experience. Many people who have just finished a degree may not have even have had one for their university place, and often even if they had - it was an informal interview. I know that the RAF will debrief you after an interview - this is a really valuable exercise - and you should listen very carefully to what they say. It is my view that - yes - it is great if you can get the flying scholarship - but the opportunity to have formal interviews - and then being told how to improve will be superb advice and thus you can act on this advice and hence when you go for formal airline interviews - it will not be such an initial shock.

I think that I will conclude my post by saying this - "If you get refused the first time - just carry on and do it again." I have been monitoring and contributing to PPRuNe now for 2 years - and over that time I have seen certain individuals get "knocked back" - only to persevere and eventually achieve ther goal. The younger you can experience this fact of life the better in my opinion. It will make you aware that there is stiff competition for all jobs in the aerospace industry. It doesn't matter whether it is an Air League interview or a BA interview - the simple fact is that you have been turned down - and naturally that will demoralize you. This character building will only serve you well for later interviews and experiences.

I think that I have put a few of my opinions in the above post. It is likely that some poeple - even yourself - may disagree with some of them. The point is though - is that you should try and get as many different opinions about a subject as you can get - then make a choice.

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It is my opinion - and I would imagine other people's as well that the purchase of an Airband Radio would be productive. By sitting down and listening to the RT you will learn a lot about procedures - and indeed the method of communication between pilots and ATC that can often seem so alienating.

I wish your neighbour the very best of luck, and if you need any additional information, don't hesitate to contact me if you wish.

Regards




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[email protected]
ICQ41344326

Nishko
29th Nov 1999, 14:04
You've hit the nail on the head regarding gliding. I came from a gliding background and have seen many powered pilots turn thier noses up at it as if it were a lesser form of flying. Gliding teaches a pilot how to be 'in tune' with flying as well as developing a more finely honed finesse when it comes to smooth and accurate airmanship. Any powered pilot that simply dismisses gliding as being boring or too easy is more than likely lacking these highly desirable skills to some degree.......? Don't get me wrong, I prefer flying powered aircraft..:-)

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Clear Prop!


[This message has been edited by Nishko (edited 29 November 1999).]

MALIK, UH
29th Nov 1999, 16:22
I completely agree with DJ. The flying scholarships are definitely something every budding pilot shpuld go for. I have been fortunate in getting a fair bit of flying experience without spending a penny! Gliding is always a good start ( I did a couple of gliding courses with the ATC ) and the next thing to do is go for the RAF/Airleague flying scholarships, get them both and you'll nearly have a PPL. Good luck to you DJ, I have been there myself and its worth all the hassle, at the end of the day its the flying that matters!

StudentInDebt
29th Nov 1999, 17:46
Another good post from DJ

Don't forget that GAPAN offer several sponsorships as well - www.gapan.org (http://www.gapan.org)

[This message has been edited by StudentInDebt (edited 29 November 1999).]

WX Man
29th Nov 1999, 18:41
An excellent and informative post by DJ there. I definately second the advice about getting into CCF/ ATC (although try for the CCF, it's infinately better and they're more relaxed!).

Then he should get himself on the RAF Cadet's gliding courses run by those excellent blokes and blokesses of the RAF(VR)at the RAF's VGS schools. I was lucky enough to be one of those- the only one from our CCF. I met some excellent people on my course, but best of all actually learnt to fly. And for free, too! So, tell him not to shun gliding. Every instructor I've flown with comments on the fact that I actually use the rudders... remnants of my gliding training I'm afraid! Honestly, I firmly believe that gliding is excellent preparation for flying training. On that note, if he's not that keen on the RAF, he could try and get himself involved with the local gliding club.

Grandad Flyer
29th Nov 1999, 23:31
Just to add a point - many of the larger gliding clubs now offer Cadetships - in return for helping at the airfield, much reduced or free gliding. Can be very good value, with flights costing in the region of £5-£10 for an aerotow flight.
Contact the British Gliding Association on 01162 531051.

Capt Pit Bull
30th Nov 1999, 02:16
My advice to all wannabees would be to hang out in this forum for a few months so as to be sure they understand what they are letting themselves in for.

The guy needs a balanced view, not a 'rose tinted spectacles' picture of the career.

CPB

JBeecham
30th Nov 1999, 14:48
The information provided here is excellent. Definately get gliding or flying as soon as possible, it's the only way. It might be an idea to join the ATC as a cadet. This way you will gain free gliding and flying and it is something to talk about at an interview - it also shows you have some enthusiasm for what you want to do. At the end of the day, should you apply for sponsorships you will be competing against all sorts of people and therefore it is important to stand out from the crowd. This will be a good example to the selection board that you are keen.
Also, why not try and get a job at the local flying club? I would advise you to go and have a chat with the chief flying instructor or similar person about working at weekends for them, maybe washing aircraft or just generally helping out. This way you are in the right environment, will probably get free or even discounted flying, and you get to know the right sorts of people. It's certainly worth a try.

Best of Luck!

Alt Cap
1st Dec 1999, 00:34
Join local Air Training Core, go for gliding & flying scholarships, if considering university, then think about joining University Air Squadron, all these hours will also enable you to take dispensation towards your CPL, hence reducing your training cost's.

Wee Weasley Welshman
1st Dec 1999, 01:18
Sound advice here. DJ - you after my job?!?

Best of luck. Hard hard work but what else are you going to do with your life? Go for it.

WWW