Poor EK A380 F/O's

[sanddune 1]

A380 F/O's - what are they to do? Quite a few of them were "forced" over to this fleet with the opportunity of being able to upgrade back on the A330. This policy is now cancelled. You will not be allowed to go. Not even if you have passed your interview and are waiting on a course date. You can however, upgrade on the 380 once meeting the requirements - 2500 hrs on type, and pass a "special" review board. Do we have this on our other fleets? So,... at an average of 600hr/Yr if your lucky - you'll maybe get an upgrade in a few years. No wise "cracks" please! We have enough of these on the 380 already!!!:{

[Payscale]

I dont see the problem. They are offering upgrades directly on the worlds heaviest jet and sure enough some dude will complain about it :ugh::ugh:

[GoreTex]

I am sure a few guys hate to be upgraded on the most advanced, biggest and most comfortable airplane in the world.

[Iver]

Going back to the A330, even in the left seat, would be somewhat of a let-down (more night turns to India and few good Euro layovers) after experiencing the A380 and the better rostering/layovers it entails. Don't you think? Perhaps a bit of an over-statement, but it would be like returning to the left seat of a 737-200 after flying the Concorde as FO for BA. A bit of a let down... From very good/unique to acceptable. :E:\:8 Don't get me wrong, I'd still fly the A330 for EK if you would hire me!!!

Obviously we would all love to be Captain sooner, but becoming Captain on the A380 would be quite an achievement as well. :ok::D:}:cool::cool: Taking a longer-term view might help.

[SloppyJoe]

I dont see the problem. They are offering upgrades directly on the worlds heaviest jet and sure enough some dude will complain about it

Do you get paid more to fly the 380 at EK? If not I see the problem, it is pretty obvious.

I bet you would pay to fly it from the left seat. What is wrong with some people and flying, it is about terms and conditions, upholding ones contract. Who gives a :mad: what plane it is. Only reason to want a specific fleet would be lifestyle, anyone who is desperate to fly it just because it is big must be compensating for something.

[GoreTex]

and dont forget, once you go back to the 330 you'll stay there forever and are screwed, maybe the 350 if it ever comes will change something but I wouldn't count on it.

[ironbutt57]

Biggest and most comfortable maybe, advanced??? Have a read of "FLYING" magazine April edition, think the latest Cirrus has us all beat....:}:ok:

[145qrh]

Most guys want the command, or to be more precise the money.

777,330,380 - who cares "show me the money"

[etops777]

Great! This is what EK wants. Conquered and divide.

[sanddune 1]

Point Clarification:

All of the F/O's who were "forced" over to the A380 had already been in EK for 2 to 3 yrs (actually it was a requirement). Many of them were already approaching the upgrade eligibility requirements for command on the A330.

They were now "seat locked" on the "Super" for 2 years, but with the hope/prospect of upgrading back on the main fleet after their time was up.

So, to be told now that "THERE WILL BE NO UPGRADE FOR ANY 380 F/O BACK ON TO THE 330" is just mildly upsetting!!??

You can, however - upgrade on the 380 (when EK eventually get approval and set up a command course for this fleet) if you meet the requirements.
Well, with the requirements being for a start, 2500 hrs on type, - it means that an upgrade will now take guys who were ready now, an additional 2 to 3 yrs to achieve on the "Super."

Meanwhile, back on the main 330/340 fleet, our colleagues (who were not deemed "experienced enough" to come to the 380), will all have upgraded already!

Now, don't get me wrong. I never thought that fairness and equality would come into play for us, when economy, operational requirements, $$$, and the bottom line are the driving factors. - But it still doesn't make it an easier pill to swallow.

So, the upgrade (and subsequent gain in financial well being, travel benefit, etc..) that should have taken 4 to 5 yrs (on average), will now take 6 to 7 yrs.

Did I mention already that there is no current RHS to LHS upgrade course. Just checking!:ugh:

[GoreTex]

its a well known fact for over 10 years that EK changes policies every 5 minutes and there is never a logic behind it except saving money, everybody has been warned on pprune a zillion times, if you don't read pprune you should have asked somebody who was here a few years already, not the 3 month honeymooners.

[fatbus]

EK is a business. EK is not here for you ,you are here for EK( to use as they see fit). Everyone needs to understand that before they come, things change as well as the business changes.

[Dilligas]

it seems to me that there are only a few posts with some integrity. Sanddune 1. being the best. All the others don't care, because it does not affect them. You Join a company, expecting upgrade in say 4 to 5 years, you are on Fleet 1, your mates join at the same time and after you and are on Fleet 2. They get upgrades and you have some 5th grade clerk phone you and say no upgrade and all. No explanation, just policy change, this when you are already half way through the upgrade process. I know Emirates does not give a SSSS about its people, but really this is beyond belief. I would have thought that some of the senior training guys would have had the decency to tell those affected.

[captjns]

Its the same airline, but different paint job round the world for pilots without an honored seniority list and no representation for disputes.

Individuals who accept employment at carriers outside Euroland and the North America, where unions and associations exist, know the facts and quality of life with carriers in foreign lands.

I hope there will be resolution for those concerned... good luck to all.

[Payscale]

We are not talking about if you are loosing your job, because the fleet you are on is being retired, are we? In that case I could understand.
We are talking about you making a world record in quick A380 command. From not employed in EK to A380 skipper in 6-7 years. Sorry I doubt anyone will cry very long for your suffering..

[Cowtown]

Payscale,

Indeed 6-7 years to a 380 command would be an achievement. But the reality is 10, 15 or even 20 years. We have a number of managers who have gone from zero time in EK to their current positions. EK of course considered their previous careers.

So after 7 years I may get a 380 command, then what. I would happily swap that command with someone on the 777. Why? Because we all would like to move on eventually and a 380 command leaves us fairly limited.

Most are here for one thing, to pay the bills. As an f/o with a family and a homeland miles away it is a stretch. As a captain, I can hit the mortgage and start saving.

None of what has happened has come as a big surprise, after 3 years I have come to expect nothing.

We can only ask ourselves if EK is worth the 7-8 year wait or bite the bullet and move on.

We all have different targets. I wish you all the best in reaching yours.

[GoreTex]

Cowtown,
if 6-7 years is too long to wait for a 380 command then you should look for a quicker command in the US, OZ or Europe, if you dont get it there try another solar system.

[Cowtown]

Goretex,

Thanks for the stella advice.

I have one simple question, why can't a 380 f/o who meets the requirements be given a shot at a command on the 330?

EK has decided that this is how things will be and tough luck.

Anybody joining on the 777 fleet can expect great prospects, put the work in and reap the rewards. Join on the bus fleet then it's a guessing game. In the future no doubt the scenario may well flip.

Most of the captains I fly with find the current situation a disgrace and wrong.

I am doing the maths and considering my options. I know where the door is...

This site is the only voice we have, for now anyway......

[thehulk]

Hey Gore, there really is no need for that kind of sarcasm.

And, I happen to agree with Cowtown. Experienced First Officers who met all the qualifications and requirements for upgrade on their main (A330) fleet, should never have been drafted ("forced") over to the 380 fleet in the first place. This is just another cock-up by our blameless EK manpower and planning department, who it seems has no accountability to anyone.

These F/O's have done their part, and went to the A380, even though they knew it would delay their upgrade by the minimum 2 yr seat lock.
To be delayed even further now for what will likely be another 2 to 3 yrs, is a shame for their sacrifice.

It may not be helped, but it is also not the most pleasant experience to watch colleagues that joined in your batch (who were "spared" from being moved to the 380 because they lacked the necessary experience) now upgrade on the fleet that you joined on.

After all, we come for the "command," Who cares what it's on.

[GoreTex]

Because the managers screw up all the time and now they screwed up so bad that they dont have the capacity to train, they have to outsource training and go for DEC's.

It has been like this before you joined, is it fair? No.
You signed a pact with the Devil, thats a fact.

EK hired probably 100 FO's the last 3 month, guess what, in a year or less they will complain and be pissed off like you, like the guys before you and the guys before them.

History repeats itself

[sanddune 1]

Well Sitting, I'm not sure I'd go as far as saying the profession is a disaster, I would say though, that certain companies make it feel that way!!!!!!!!!!! It sure ain't what it used to be - And That's For Sure!!!

What we have to remind ourselves of from time-to-time here in the ME, is that we are all INDEPENDANT CONTRACTORS! Offering up our "wares" for hire.

As captjns said earlier, we have no collective body out here,.....................
No representation, No one looking out for what is right, legal, honorable, fair, ---Except Ourselves.

Maybe the next time we are "forced," "drafted," "made" to take a move that doesn't fit with the model we have pictured for ourselves, we will excercise that other right that our "independent contract" gives us......
say NO!!! After all, what's the worst that can happen??...... I take my independent contract somewhere else.;)