In the know...
30th May 1999, 20:28
It is my belief that a candidate for an airline sponsorship can best represent himself by being relaxed and at ease. As such I have decided to follow WWW’s lead and hereby present my Big Aer Lingus CEP posting, it seems there are a fair few here who may be interested. Oh, do go and read WWW’s work, although its on BA it applies in part to EI too and it’s a good read to boot. Just click on the link at the end of this post.
My aim here is to demystify the process not to provide coaching notes and question answers. If I can help people arrive better prepared then I have achieved my objectives and will only be assisting Aer Lingus in their quest to select the best candidates. If I was to tell you word for word what the interviewers will say (not that I know) I would only reduce the validity of the whole exercise. So here goes:
It seems that the process runs almost annually and at about the same time each year – it is worth noting the absence of an upper age limit, unlike BA old folks are welcome. Things have changed a little in the EI selection procedure since last year (the version detailed in the wannabes section of the main page - still worth reading it carefully though), not much but here is the way it was this year:
The process means visiting Dublin four times then again for IAA medicals if selected. It all starts with a newspaper advert in the broadsheet Irish press (it turned up at the end of March this year) and a low profile entry on the website www.aerlingus.ie (http://www.aerlingus.ie) This gives details of the times that PARC (an aviation recruitment and consultancy firm www.parc.ie (http://www.parc.ie) ) will be manning the phones, they do so only for part of each day for only a few days so act fast. The stress free screening phone call involves giving your details, confirming your flying hours (>150 means bye bye, FACT), academic qualifications and availability for aptitude testing. All those with two arms and two legs who know what an aeroplane is will then get a letter inviting them to aptitude testing in Dublin. Not having any hours at all is not a problem but do expect to be asked why you don’t have any. My advice do two or three and that way you remove the issue because you don’t know enough to get asked tricky questions but you have demonstrated an interest and can plead poverty if asked why you haven’t done more. The candidates that go to the aptitude testing do so at their own expense http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/frown.gif . On a non-informative and vaguely personal note I think this is quite acceptable; why should they pay for several thousand people who they know nothing about to come and say hello - they are more than good enough to candidates later on, once they know that you are worth their time. The letter inviting you to aptitudes also includes an application form (more on that later).
The phone call that starts it off is an indication of how things will continue, it’s all by phone and its all time critical. Notice periods for call-backs are short and the process can start run full course and finish in under two months. On the other hand things can (I have heard) take the guts of a year, if your notice period is short and your start date early you seem to get processed faster btw. Generally be aware of the possibility that you will need to take a lot of time off and even more time to prepare. Its quite a big commitment if you get through a few stages so warn the boss early!
PARC runs the aptitude testing stage for the three thousand odd wannabes who get past the phone call and this year (1999) they took place at the Regency Hotel in Dublin, £10 by taxi or £1 by regular Cityswift bus from the airport (41c?), it takes about 15 minutes. Once there you will find big room full of hopefuls in anything from business suits to tracksuits, the former is recommended. I'm not so sure that the huge number of PARC people around aren’t quietly checking out the candidates and removing the guys in ripped jeans with pink hair - I may be wrong but better safe than sorry. The tests comprise of a 180 question psychological profile, a verbal reasoning test (the same one as BA), a set of maths questions and a set of mechanical and spatial problems. The tests pass very slowly with instructions being laboriously reiterated at every stage. The actual question answering however must be done at great speed as everything is against the clock, in fact the verbal one is the only one you will finish. The psyche profile is not time limited and is done at the end, enough has been said on these before but I will say it again. Just do it and do it as yourself, it’s only there to removes extreme freaks and guide the psychologist at interview – you cannot beat it and will fail it for lying if you try. The session lasts around 5 hours and besides bringing a stopwatch there is little else for me to add to Jonny and WWW’s previous aptitude testing posts (to read them for yourself click on the links at the end of this post!) but do pay heed to the ‘no negative marking’ issue and learn the basics of cogs and pulleys. You can do all the maths questions, just not in the time allowed and practising mental arithmetic without rough paper and without a calculator will make you faster - hint. If the thought of aptitude testing really worries you then go and ask in a high street bookstore for their most popular guides, they won’t increase your IQ but if they remove your fear of the unknown they can make you relax you will do better.
PARC notify successful candidates by phone and ask them to a preliminary interview, also at the Regency and again at your own expense. This interview lasts only about an hour and is with a single PARC employee. The format seems to vary little and is basically a run through the application form followed by technical questions and an Aer Lingus quiz. Think about the basics of things like TV’s and light bulbs, wings and jet engines, the real nitty gritty is what they are after; e.g. light bulbs don’t burn out because of the inert gas surrounding the tungsten filament, Bernoulli noted... etc. Go to the children’s section of a bookshop and find a good technology book, I will try to find the name of the excellent one I found and will add it soon. Learn Aer Lingus’s history, its routes, aircraft types etc., as they explicitly tell you it is one way you can prove to them that you want the job. In summary, you will fail this if you do not learn alot about EI so read the website and in-flight mag if you can get it, know all that and you will breeze it. You shouldn’t worry about failing it for who you are or for your technical knowledge - they don’t want Einstein just someone with a degree of technical common sense. This stage is remember a preliminary one to weed out those who EI would be wasting their time to see. Oh and whatever you do don’t forget to bring what they ask for, passport, academic certificates, photos - in fact bring those at every stage they want loads!
The application form asks for information on your flying experience, academic qualifications, previous employment and past flying experience as a passenger. Far more importantly it asks about your school/college activities, specifically the positions of responsibility you have held and your past achievements. Answer all questions very carefully as this is what you will talk about in every single interview and this form is all they have to jog their memory when you leave and they stay behind to decide your fate! It also asks for evidence of technical aptitude and what you would do if you didn’t get the job – hint even if you would actually go to work in Sainsburys don’t tell them anything other than ‘I will reapply and endeavour to become a pilot through any other means I find available to me!’ Of course it also asks about why you want to be a pilot, why you would be a good one and why you want to fly for EI specifically. The application form gives you a good idea of the sort of questions that will come up again and again, really think about why you want the job and what questions you would ask if you were the interviewer. The questions change but if you have really thought everything through you shouldn’t get stumped.
If you convince the man from PARC that you have a basic understanding of physics and technology, that you know enough about Aer Lingus and that you are a personable fellow they pass your file to EI - hooray. EI then telephone to invite you over for first interview. This time they pay for you to get there, on one of their big shiny planes if necessary :) . This interview takes place in the Forte hotel at the airport, 5 minutes walk from the terminal or a free courtesy bus (special free phone by information on the ground floor). It is a panel affair with two HR types and two pilot types. In essence it follows the same plan as PARC’s interview did but this time each person asks a certain type of question and the whole thing feels more formal and more intense. Just keep calm and focus on one person at a time - it was my experience that the others just scribble and don’t look at you unless it’s their question! It lasts roughly an hour but can be cut short or extended as they wish, successful candidates I spoke to were in there for as little as 35 minutes and as long as an hour and a half. Remember what was in your application from, read everything about EI you can find and relax. If you are not from Ireland don’t worry it is not a disadvantage – this is a highly professional outfit looking for the best candidates, period. That said you are applying to live and work in Ireland so be prepared to demonstrate that you have thought about this eventuality. Don’t let them think you are just there for the training and will bugger off ‘home’ afterwards – in fact if that is the case don’t apply! Be prepared to use your imagination too as they may ask you about hypothetical situations where you are a pilot dealing with... dogmatic captain, nasty cabin crew, PA to a flight delayed 3 hours when its your fault. Someone on PPRuNe said don’t be afraid to say I don’t know. He may be right but I think they may well be looking for thought processes so saying 'I don’t know but I suspect...' may serve you better.
Anyway, successful candidates from the first EI interview get telephoned again; beg, borrow or steal a mobile the stress involved in worrying about missing a call just isn’t worth it! This time they want you back for two days, flights and nice hotel provided if they are needed. In any order you have a group interview, a company medical and an interview with a PARC psychologist.
The medical first, it is conducted at the airport medical centre and takes several hours, mainly due to the waiting around. The nurses weigh and measure you so keep out of McDonald’s – no not really, seriously as long as you are not badly overweight don’t worry. They give you a basic eye test, obtaining corrected and uncorrected Snellens scale readings using a clever box device. There is a urine test for drugs, proteins and sugars. There is an ECG, no longer from the dark ages but using unpleasant little suckers all the same. You then have medical history questionnaires to fill out before a brief session with the chief quack. He checks your reflexes, hernia tests you, listens to your innards and sends you off.
The interview with the PARC psychologist is more of a cosy fireside chat at PARC’s offices 10 minutes from the airport. Basically he has your application form (I can't emphasise enough that it really is important 'cos its always there so take your time over it!) and psyche profile results and from these he asks you questions about your family, your aspirations, your reasons for applying, for doing the A levels / leaving cert subjects you did etc. The preamble may go over the 'why do you want to be a pilot?' thing again - AAAARRRGHHH - but that sort of thing isn’t the focus, your personality is! This is genuinely a low stress event that you do not need to worry about or do anything to prepare for, as someone here once said there is no one who knows more about you that you!
The group interview takes place in an EI building and consists of a scenario based discussion followed by a group discussion of how you all did. The task involves spending half an hour prioritising various items after a plane crash in the desert. The important part is the interaction as you decide what to do and prioritise the items accordingly. As has been said before strike a balance between not getting involved and taking over. The most important thing is to be yourself, EI took both the quietest and most vocal members of my group. Best tips I have read on this site for group interviews are to ignore the observers, to maintain eye contact and to use peoples names! Always, always use their names even if it means reading them off the name badge or floor card each time.
The five or so observers then ask each person individually how they think it went. After this they leave to discuss things before returning for a really awkward coffee break when they ‘chat’ to you all. They then leave again before taking each person out individually for a 25 minute individual debrief. This is quite awkward as they really have watched the group exercise carefully and quiz you on the performance of yourself and of the group as a whole. Remember the names of your peers as you will be asked who you felt performed best and worst – nasty huh?
Those who were successful in the groups get a phone call telling them that the training contract is theirs provisional on a successful IAA class 1 medical that takes place at a posh Dublin clinic in the south of the city, Blackrock. Just for interests sake I have put a link at the bottom to a post detailing what goes on, it sounds mean.
After sweating over the results for a while the medically acceptable lucky ones go off to Dublin for induction and then to an approved flight school. Recently it has been OATS or WMU.
As far as EI's attitude to PPRuNe goes they know it exists and they read it (hi guys :) ) but I believe they generally have a balanced view and appreciate that any wannabe in his right mind will do all they can to prepare and if they find PPRuNe they will use it to death. I don’t believe they will object to this post because they never try to surprise you with anything, they explain it all and tell you what to expect if you get to the next stage. With your nerves buzzing its kind of hard to take it in though! They will ask how you prepared for the interview, tell them you read books, talked to people and used the net ;) . I was warned off letting on and didn’t but a guy who got through talked about it openly. Anyway its up to you...
Well that’s about it except to say that it is a highly professional selection procedure with quality organisation – the best I have seen. Oh and any official objections http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/redface.gif , questions, comments, corrections, additions then post them here or mail me. This has no basis more accurate than my own meandering experience and that of a few other PPRuNers who went through it with me!
For those that go for it the very best of luck and I hope you get to join this extremely good airline. For the record the numbers I have heard most often are 3000 ish applicants for 30 odd places.
WWW’s Big BA CEP posting http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/Forum2/HTML/000865.html
WWW’s Aptitude testing infomercial
http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/Forum2/HTML/001092.html
Jonny’s day in life of EI aptitude tests
http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/Forum2/HTML/000203.html
Fascinating, Captain’s Class One story
http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/Forum2/HTML/001274.html
[This message has been edited by In the know... (edited 31 May 1999).]
My aim here is to demystify the process not to provide coaching notes and question answers. If I can help people arrive better prepared then I have achieved my objectives and will only be assisting Aer Lingus in their quest to select the best candidates. If I was to tell you word for word what the interviewers will say (not that I know) I would only reduce the validity of the whole exercise. So here goes:
It seems that the process runs almost annually and at about the same time each year – it is worth noting the absence of an upper age limit, unlike BA old folks are welcome. Things have changed a little in the EI selection procedure since last year (the version detailed in the wannabes section of the main page - still worth reading it carefully though), not much but here is the way it was this year:
The process means visiting Dublin four times then again for IAA medicals if selected. It all starts with a newspaper advert in the broadsheet Irish press (it turned up at the end of March this year) and a low profile entry on the website www.aerlingus.ie (http://www.aerlingus.ie) This gives details of the times that PARC (an aviation recruitment and consultancy firm www.parc.ie (http://www.parc.ie) ) will be manning the phones, they do so only for part of each day for only a few days so act fast. The stress free screening phone call involves giving your details, confirming your flying hours (>150 means bye bye, FACT), academic qualifications and availability for aptitude testing. All those with two arms and two legs who know what an aeroplane is will then get a letter inviting them to aptitude testing in Dublin. Not having any hours at all is not a problem but do expect to be asked why you don’t have any. My advice do two or three and that way you remove the issue because you don’t know enough to get asked tricky questions but you have demonstrated an interest and can plead poverty if asked why you haven’t done more. The candidates that go to the aptitude testing do so at their own expense http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/frown.gif . On a non-informative and vaguely personal note I think this is quite acceptable; why should they pay for several thousand people who they know nothing about to come and say hello - they are more than good enough to candidates later on, once they know that you are worth their time. The letter inviting you to aptitudes also includes an application form (more on that later).
The phone call that starts it off is an indication of how things will continue, it’s all by phone and its all time critical. Notice periods for call-backs are short and the process can start run full course and finish in under two months. On the other hand things can (I have heard) take the guts of a year, if your notice period is short and your start date early you seem to get processed faster btw. Generally be aware of the possibility that you will need to take a lot of time off and even more time to prepare. Its quite a big commitment if you get through a few stages so warn the boss early!
PARC runs the aptitude testing stage for the three thousand odd wannabes who get past the phone call and this year (1999) they took place at the Regency Hotel in Dublin, £10 by taxi or £1 by regular Cityswift bus from the airport (41c?), it takes about 15 minutes. Once there you will find big room full of hopefuls in anything from business suits to tracksuits, the former is recommended. I'm not so sure that the huge number of PARC people around aren’t quietly checking out the candidates and removing the guys in ripped jeans with pink hair - I may be wrong but better safe than sorry. The tests comprise of a 180 question psychological profile, a verbal reasoning test (the same one as BA), a set of maths questions and a set of mechanical and spatial problems. The tests pass very slowly with instructions being laboriously reiterated at every stage. The actual question answering however must be done at great speed as everything is against the clock, in fact the verbal one is the only one you will finish. The psyche profile is not time limited and is done at the end, enough has been said on these before but I will say it again. Just do it and do it as yourself, it’s only there to removes extreme freaks and guide the psychologist at interview – you cannot beat it and will fail it for lying if you try. The session lasts around 5 hours and besides bringing a stopwatch there is little else for me to add to Jonny and WWW’s previous aptitude testing posts (to read them for yourself click on the links at the end of this post!) but do pay heed to the ‘no negative marking’ issue and learn the basics of cogs and pulleys. You can do all the maths questions, just not in the time allowed and practising mental arithmetic without rough paper and without a calculator will make you faster - hint. If the thought of aptitude testing really worries you then go and ask in a high street bookstore for their most popular guides, they won’t increase your IQ but if they remove your fear of the unknown they can make you relax you will do better.
PARC notify successful candidates by phone and ask them to a preliminary interview, also at the Regency and again at your own expense. This interview lasts only about an hour and is with a single PARC employee. The format seems to vary little and is basically a run through the application form followed by technical questions and an Aer Lingus quiz. Think about the basics of things like TV’s and light bulbs, wings and jet engines, the real nitty gritty is what they are after; e.g. light bulbs don’t burn out because of the inert gas surrounding the tungsten filament, Bernoulli noted... etc. Go to the children’s section of a bookshop and find a good technology book, I will try to find the name of the excellent one I found and will add it soon. Learn Aer Lingus’s history, its routes, aircraft types etc., as they explicitly tell you it is one way you can prove to them that you want the job. In summary, you will fail this if you do not learn alot about EI so read the website and in-flight mag if you can get it, know all that and you will breeze it. You shouldn’t worry about failing it for who you are or for your technical knowledge - they don’t want Einstein just someone with a degree of technical common sense. This stage is remember a preliminary one to weed out those who EI would be wasting their time to see. Oh and whatever you do don’t forget to bring what they ask for, passport, academic certificates, photos - in fact bring those at every stage they want loads!
The application form asks for information on your flying experience, academic qualifications, previous employment and past flying experience as a passenger. Far more importantly it asks about your school/college activities, specifically the positions of responsibility you have held and your past achievements. Answer all questions very carefully as this is what you will talk about in every single interview and this form is all they have to jog their memory when you leave and they stay behind to decide your fate! It also asks for evidence of technical aptitude and what you would do if you didn’t get the job – hint even if you would actually go to work in Sainsburys don’t tell them anything other than ‘I will reapply and endeavour to become a pilot through any other means I find available to me!’ Of course it also asks about why you want to be a pilot, why you would be a good one and why you want to fly for EI specifically. The application form gives you a good idea of the sort of questions that will come up again and again, really think about why you want the job and what questions you would ask if you were the interviewer. The questions change but if you have really thought everything through you shouldn’t get stumped.
If you convince the man from PARC that you have a basic understanding of physics and technology, that you know enough about Aer Lingus and that you are a personable fellow they pass your file to EI - hooray. EI then telephone to invite you over for first interview. This time they pay for you to get there, on one of their big shiny planes if necessary :) . This interview takes place in the Forte hotel at the airport, 5 minutes walk from the terminal or a free courtesy bus (special free phone by information on the ground floor). It is a panel affair with two HR types and two pilot types. In essence it follows the same plan as PARC’s interview did but this time each person asks a certain type of question and the whole thing feels more formal and more intense. Just keep calm and focus on one person at a time - it was my experience that the others just scribble and don’t look at you unless it’s their question! It lasts roughly an hour but can be cut short or extended as they wish, successful candidates I spoke to were in there for as little as 35 minutes and as long as an hour and a half. Remember what was in your application from, read everything about EI you can find and relax. If you are not from Ireland don’t worry it is not a disadvantage – this is a highly professional outfit looking for the best candidates, period. That said you are applying to live and work in Ireland so be prepared to demonstrate that you have thought about this eventuality. Don’t let them think you are just there for the training and will bugger off ‘home’ afterwards – in fact if that is the case don’t apply! Be prepared to use your imagination too as they may ask you about hypothetical situations where you are a pilot dealing with... dogmatic captain, nasty cabin crew, PA to a flight delayed 3 hours when its your fault. Someone on PPRuNe said don’t be afraid to say I don’t know. He may be right but I think they may well be looking for thought processes so saying 'I don’t know but I suspect...' may serve you better.
Anyway, successful candidates from the first EI interview get telephoned again; beg, borrow or steal a mobile the stress involved in worrying about missing a call just isn’t worth it! This time they want you back for two days, flights and nice hotel provided if they are needed. In any order you have a group interview, a company medical and an interview with a PARC psychologist.
The medical first, it is conducted at the airport medical centre and takes several hours, mainly due to the waiting around. The nurses weigh and measure you so keep out of McDonald’s – no not really, seriously as long as you are not badly overweight don’t worry. They give you a basic eye test, obtaining corrected and uncorrected Snellens scale readings using a clever box device. There is a urine test for drugs, proteins and sugars. There is an ECG, no longer from the dark ages but using unpleasant little suckers all the same. You then have medical history questionnaires to fill out before a brief session with the chief quack. He checks your reflexes, hernia tests you, listens to your innards and sends you off.
The interview with the PARC psychologist is more of a cosy fireside chat at PARC’s offices 10 minutes from the airport. Basically he has your application form (I can't emphasise enough that it really is important 'cos its always there so take your time over it!) and psyche profile results and from these he asks you questions about your family, your aspirations, your reasons for applying, for doing the A levels / leaving cert subjects you did etc. The preamble may go over the 'why do you want to be a pilot?' thing again - AAAARRRGHHH - but that sort of thing isn’t the focus, your personality is! This is genuinely a low stress event that you do not need to worry about or do anything to prepare for, as someone here once said there is no one who knows more about you that you!
The group interview takes place in an EI building and consists of a scenario based discussion followed by a group discussion of how you all did. The task involves spending half an hour prioritising various items after a plane crash in the desert. The important part is the interaction as you decide what to do and prioritise the items accordingly. As has been said before strike a balance between not getting involved and taking over. The most important thing is to be yourself, EI took both the quietest and most vocal members of my group. Best tips I have read on this site for group interviews are to ignore the observers, to maintain eye contact and to use peoples names! Always, always use their names even if it means reading them off the name badge or floor card each time.
The five or so observers then ask each person individually how they think it went. After this they leave to discuss things before returning for a really awkward coffee break when they ‘chat’ to you all. They then leave again before taking each person out individually for a 25 minute individual debrief. This is quite awkward as they really have watched the group exercise carefully and quiz you on the performance of yourself and of the group as a whole. Remember the names of your peers as you will be asked who you felt performed best and worst – nasty huh?
Those who were successful in the groups get a phone call telling them that the training contract is theirs provisional on a successful IAA class 1 medical that takes place at a posh Dublin clinic in the south of the city, Blackrock. Just for interests sake I have put a link at the bottom to a post detailing what goes on, it sounds mean.
After sweating over the results for a while the medically acceptable lucky ones go off to Dublin for induction and then to an approved flight school. Recently it has been OATS or WMU.
As far as EI's attitude to PPRuNe goes they know it exists and they read it (hi guys :) ) but I believe they generally have a balanced view and appreciate that any wannabe in his right mind will do all they can to prepare and if they find PPRuNe they will use it to death. I don’t believe they will object to this post because they never try to surprise you with anything, they explain it all and tell you what to expect if you get to the next stage. With your nerves buzzing its kind of hard to take it in though! They will ask how you prepared for the interview, tell them you read books, talked to people and used the net ;) . I was warned off letting on and didn’t but a guy who got through talked about it openly. Anyway its up to you...
Well that’s about it except to say that it is a highly professional selection procedure with quality organisation – the best I have seen. Oh and any official objections http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/redface.gif , questions, comments, corrections, additions then post them here or mail me. This has no basis more accurate than my own meandering experience and that of a few other PPRuNers who went through it with me!
For those that go for it the very best of luck and I hope you get to join this extremely good airline. For the record the numbers I have heard most often are 3000 ish applicants for 30 odd places.
WWW’s Big BA CEP posting http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/Forum2/HTML/000865.html
WWW’s Aptitude testing infomercial
http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/Forum2/HTML/001092.html
Jonny’s day in life of EI aptitude tests
http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/Forum2/HTML/000203.html
Fascinating, Captain’s Class One story
http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/Forum2/HTML/001274.html
[This message has been edited by In the know... (edited 31 May 1999).]