British Midland - First Round Tests and UAS

[Three-Twenty]

Wedge et al (see earlier BM topic),

Forget UAS. Whatever OATS rep said, having no UAS experience will not put you at a disadvantage. As for having to have a good reason why you didn't join - that smacks of exaggeration. There are guys on this years course (just finished/finishing) who:
a) flew and completed UAS syllabus (MORE explaining to do i.e. WHY didn't the RAF want you?!)
b) flew some of the UAS syllabus (see above and WHY didn't you finish it? were you chopped?)
c) had only civilian flying experience and went to Uni BUT didn't join UAS
d) had No flying experience at all! (although this may be more of a disadvantage nowadays)

The split is fairly even, except for only 1 or 2 with little flight time. If you can make up for it by demonstrating your determination/passion for succeeding in an Airline Career, it shouldn't be a worry. God knows, we did it!
I would suggest that those people who are spreading demoralising and inaccurate rumours about reqts for UAS flying, official or unofficial, are perhaps bitter in their lack of success and seek to find some reason for their failure other than pure British bad luck. The rest of you, stick at it and don't worry - do the best you can and if you're good enough, they'll take you. If not apply next year!

Oxford aren't perfect, but they do NOT hold aptitude tests in order to get your sixty squids. Thats the voice of a REAL cynic. Cheer up!

Good Luck to everyone, and StudentInDebt; what do you mean it's a good cadetship NEXT to BA?! I could tell you a story....

------------------
Knowledge is your enemy...

[Wedge]

{I would suggest that those people who are spreading demoralising and inaccurate rumours about reqts for UAS flying, official or unofficial, are perhaps bitter in their lack of success and seek to find some reason for their failure other than pure British bad luck.}

Apart from the above statement, which is complete and utter rubbish, you make some good points. This IS a rumour network, so that is why I posted what I did. I stand entirely by what I said in the first place because of the source the information came from.

[fatboy slim]

But the BM medical can be a hell of a bother !!

Guess who ?!?!?!

[Three-Twenty]

Pull yourself together, Wubs..

[irelsby]

Yeah, shut up UAS doom mongers. I went to uni and didn't join UAS. Purely for the fact that it is a complete bag of **** full of engineering geekoids. I,in fact,made a consious effort not to join UAS when I saw the type of toff RAF hopefuls that it seemed to attract like flies around---you know!
Why didn't you go out like normal students and party, instead of joining sad university clans such as the UAS. I hate UAS.
For the record I am an eng graduate from Bristol and I have my BM tests on the 7th with no involvement in the UAS and no flying experience either.
Feltz.
Realistic wannabee.

[Bogner]

Right, sorry to respond as judging by the remarks above by irelsby this is an abusive wind-up, but I would like to offer my views.

"Purely for the fact that it is a complete bag of **** full of engineering geekoids. I,in fact,made a consious effort not to join UAS when I saw the type of toff RAF hopefuls that it seemed to attract like flies around---you know!"

Granted, you get _some_ people in the UAS that are 'geekoids', as in any university society, but the majority are definately not. As for the 'toff RAF hopefuls', what is wrong with joining a UAS group if it betters your chances of joining the RAF proper? I don't know where you got the toff idea from either.
Finally, the comments about partying show that you haven't ever been in contact with any UAS group ever.

ALthough I would say that joining the UAS is not vital whilst at university, I would definately say that it helped me get a job in civilian flying. From the interviews I went to I got the impression that it doesn't matter what societies you joined at uni, it was how you you spent your time that mattered. As long as you had a life other than drinking vast quantities of beer and sleeping in they were happy - it was the people who had [dare I say] wasted their time in this manner that didn't get very far.

Good luck with your BM tests on the 7th irelsby!

Bog
(Once again, sorry for responding...)

[This message has been edited by Bogner (edited 11 November 1999).]

[Three-Twenty]

I wonder what the fatboy makes of you, irelsby...Anyway, I thought everyone doing Engineering at Bristol was an OxBridge reject? :)

[StudentInDebt]

Three Twenty:

Best of British luck my **** , the reason I didn't get anywhere near the BM sponsorship was nothing to do with UAS - I wasn't clever enough to pass the aptitude tests!

Christ, stop going on about the UAS thing - Wedge and I were there, the old guy who did the testing and interviews was there - you weren't. It may not be true but it is what he said. If you can speak from your experience of having got through we will listen to you!

As for the relative merits of BA vs BM yes I'm sure we could go on all day about whose got the better shorthaul fleet, lifestyle, pay, managers.....yawn. But at the end of the day BM costs you money and BA doesn't.

[fatboy slim]

irelsby - silly silly boy, amatuers like you need to be careful on PPRune!

How many recent no hours Bristol B.Aero Eng guys are going to be at oats on the 7th Dec with your sort of attitude.

You really really think that the BM selectors don't read this? And to think you missed the oppurtunity for all those free hours at BUAS ....

Best of luck old boy
Hope it goes better than BA

[Humpback]

To Mr. Irelsby

Personally I am close to finishing my flying training here in England. I started with no flying experience whatsoever, and must say that I find you a bit quick to judge the UAS people. Any form of experience is good and from what I have seen UAS experience is really good. While I am at it I can kill any rumor that they do not drink in the squadrons... THEY ARE ALL P...HEADS (in a good sort of way)!!!

Another piece of advice to Irelsby and any others who are interested. The world of aviation might seem large, but in reality you will get suprised about how small it actually is. You meet people who know someone who heard that he did... And so on. And once you have created a bad name for yourself it is extremely difficult to get rid of, not mentioning how the stories about you tend to get better. It is better to lie than to be boring...

Good luck at your interviews.

[Ewan Hoosarmy]

In the last two years, seventeen people from my UAS have been accepted into BA (self included). Need I say more about the value of UAS experience. As for those of you who didn't even apply because we're all engineering geekoids, I bet you don't feel so self righteous now!

[Tom Oliver]

It is normally the case that anyone who decries anything or anybody is either jealous or upset. Don't put the UAS down - it is very selective and has the same standards as basic RAF wings standards - of course the airlines are impressed by this. Most civilian pilots these days choose themselves and when the first selection comes along (ie trying to get the first job)
they start whingeing! If you wanted to be a doctor you would go through the selection process before training not afterwards as is the curent situation as a prospective airline pilot. The flight schools will obviously tell you you are suitable and eventually everyone gets the 'IR' - quite a few of these people will NEVER get jobs as airline pilots.

Think about it!!

[3Greens]

Irelsby

I doubt you have done your chances of getting sponsored much good with comments like those above. I'm pretty certain that the BM selectors read this and from the info you gave away you won't be that hard to spot.

If you are fortunate enough to be selected then i suggest you keep your views to yourself whilst at OATS, as there are likely to be quite a few ex-UAS on your course.

Anyway best of British!

[raymond]

I am too joining the ranks of UAS haters. Well done IRE for your correct opinion of the prat factory that is UAS.
And who are the uneducated idiots who suggest that comments on the RUMOUR page could possibly affect chances of airline sponsorship. You are indeed very, very silly, young or just naive. These spiteful comments made in response to a critisim of an out of date institution are a poor reflection of your communication skills. If you had any knowledge of rules and regulations regarding these pages, the official stance in all aviation industry sectors is of "having no knowledge" of their existance. The Police Force has a similar page which of course is used by all including Senior Police Officers but officially not known in legal terms. No individual would be rejected for comment made on a page that "does not exist"

[ELUASNAP1]

IRELSBY, RAYMOND,

IN RESPONSE TO YOUR OUTRAGOUS AND INACCURATE COMMENTS ABOUT THE UAS I THOUGHT I'D GIVE YOU THE VIEWS OF A SERVING THIRD YEAR UAS STUDENT. THE UAS IS A HIGHLY SELECTIVE ORGANISATION THAT NOW COMES UNDER THE COMMAND OF EFT AT CRANWELL AND THEREFORE APPLICANTS HAVE TO SATISFY THE REQUIREMENTS IN EDUCATION, APPTITUDE, INTERVIEW, MEDICAL AND LEADERSHIP. THIS YEAR IN MY SQN 400 APPLICATIONS WERE RECEIVED FOR ONLY 30 PLACES. THE FLYING SYLLABUS IS NO LONGER A "FREEBIE", AFTER FHT STUDENTS ARE STREAMED, FAST JET, ROTARY OR MULTI'S THEREFORE THE FLYING INCLUDING AEROS, FORMATION,LL NAV AND IF ALL SOLO IS EXTREMELY DEMANDING AND EVERY SORTIE IS GRADED-OH AND ITS ALL FREE!!!!
IN FACT THE RAF NOW PAYS ALL STUDENTS!!!!
IN MY THREE YEARS I'VE SPENT WEEKS ON THE SUNSHINE ISLANDS OF ASCENSION, CYPRUS, AS WELL AS SKIING EXPEDS ETC-AGAIN ALL FREE!!!!
AS FOR THE SOCIAL SIDE MY SQN HAS ITS OWN SEVENTEEN CENTURY TOWN HQ WITH V.CHEAP BAR AND I FLY FROM A FAST JET STATION WITH AN EXTREMELY CUSHY OFFICERS MESS, THE FRIENDS I HAVE MADE ARE MORE LIKE BROTHERS. DID I MENTION THE EXTRAVERGANT DINING IN NIGHTS!!!! EVERYTHING YOU CAN IMAGINE IS AVAILABLE THROUGH THE UAS INCUDING FAST JET FLIGHTS---LOOKS LIKE YOU MISSED OUT BIG TIME AT UNI!!!!

[Three-Twenty]

StudentInDebt:
As for going on about the "UAS Thing", this topic was started in a response to comments on another topic which were inaccurate and discouraging. As for being there -
a) I completed three years on a UAS
b) I have been to BM sponsorship selection,
c) I was selected,
d) I did complete FrATPL/IR at OATS
e) Now A320 F/O uT

Advice I give on this Forum is intended to be encouraging and helpful, but most importantly accurate and based on MY EXPERIENCE.

I don't understand why so many wannabes have such a problem with University Air Squadrons...Raymond, whilst clearly passionate about his opinions, has been misinformed or upset by a UAS or UAS members or someone. Here's the REAL story...

1. Guy/girl goes to Uni, likes flying, quite fancies idea of flying fast jets/RAF.
2. Said wannabe works through quite tough selection process to be offered opportunity to start RAF flying training, commitment to the RAF or not.
3. They WORK to get through the flying syllabus (it is NOT easy, just ask those who didn't make it)
4. If offered RAF Pilot, great. If not, they want to continue flying, and so go for things like BA, BM etc.
5. Having been already selected for quite a small group on the strength of their flying aptitude, IS IT ANY WONDER THAT QUITE A FEW END UP WITH SPONSORSHIP?!

I really hope that if some of the replies on this thread are wind-ups, it doesn't affect the decisions of those who otherwise might get a start in aviation through the UAS or
BA,BM etc. Those still interested in advice, e-mail me, but Wedge, raymond and SID - don't bother.

PS SID, I wished you the BoB luck because I thought you were still in the process of selection - it was not an attempt at sarcasm.

------------------
...It's in ya BINA!

[Wedge]

Well this is all getting a bit out of hand. When I posted my original comments I did not want to start a slanging match about the UAS. Those of you who have decided to take this opportunity to 'have a go' at the UAS should be very careful what you say on a public forum like this. Yes, the BM selectors do read these pages - in fact it was them who first brought PPRuNe to my attention two years ago! They will be reading this and if you are going for the BM sponsorship.......

Raymond - {If you had any knowledge of rules and regulations regarding these pages, the official stance in all aviation industry sectors is of "having no knowledge" of their existance.}............well exactly, they do have no knowledge of these pages.....officially. ;)

[StudentInDebt]

320 - you obviously missed the smiley face in the header of my post! I didn't take your remarks as being sarcastic and my reply was meant in a light hearted way - I'm far too stupid to take myself seriously :).

I'm sorry you don't think you have any advice to offer me, although you are probably correct (in any case I can't ask for any because you don't include your email address) - I never ever got all the way through an airline sponsorship selection and I am now firmly settled on the self-improver route - and enjoying it (xcept for the cash flow problems, FOs pay could come in useful at the moment!).

Before I get accused of being bitter about rejection I'm like my Murphy's - I came frighteningly close with one airline and never really wanted to suffer that sort of disappointment again. I wasn't getting anywhere with the CABAIR tests and BA didn't want to know because, as I said, I'm a thickie! Sponsorship tests were money down the drain for me I'm afraid. Unlike Mr Nelson of Dorset I am doing something about it but would recommend that all Wannabes spend at least a few years trying for a sponsorship scheme.

I never had the opportunity to join a UAS, University didn't have one and I wear glasses anyway so it very much looks as if you have been much luckier than I (as well as being in the OATS 85th percentile thingamy :)). Everone I know who did join the UAS agrees with you though and not irelsby and raymond who are probably HND students and thus not eligible to join ;)!

Good luck with the line training



[This message has been edited by StudentInDebt (edited 17 November 1999).]

[Alfie_Midnight]

ELUASNAP1,

FIRST OF ALL STOP SHOUTING.

Second of all, evidence of an education? Learn to use a PC without the CAPS LOCK on, and learn how to spell.

Extravergant??

The few, the proud, the illiterate......

[Glidepath]

Why does every mention of the UAS system on Wannabes degenerate into a pointless shouting match between those that did and those that didn't?

It's getting boring.

[judge jules]

Irelsby, tut, tut, tut!

This brings back memories of last year. I put a little gripe on these pages mentioning that I thought that it was a bit of a pain that in the final BM interview, just a week before my finals, I had to prepare three 10min presentations and be asked to actually present only one of them. Not a major gripe, and definately not a slag off, but the interviewing chaps interogated one of the guys from the same university as me about who had posted it.

Oh, and I did not get selected.

Draw you own conclusions, personally I'd say think before you speak and start applying to other airlines!

[Captain PA28]

I'm afraid I've got to leap (well, lurch slowly...) to the defence of the UAS.

It is a great scheme and produces many good pilots - it is a shame though that so few ever seem to get RAF sponsorship (I don't here BA or BM complaining though :> )

As with every organisation there are good guys and total twats, don't assume because you meet a total **** (and you are more likely to because he/she will be mouthing off about how crap the UAS is/was) that all other UAS people are twats.

[212man]

"Empty vessels make most noise"

I am amazed by the strength of venom being spouted on this and other forums about UASs. Most who oppose them obviously don't have the first idea about the quality and standard of flying that is available, and why that might be attractive to a sponsor.

They also look for an element of maturity too, which seems sadly lacking amongst some of the remarks. Whoever mentioned the aviation world is small, is quite right. Astonishingly small.

"Don't knock it unless you tried it"

[Three-Twenty]

SID - smiley face noted, e-mail address replaced, now reading you fives...no hard feelings, I hope?!

------------------
...It's in ya BINA!

[3Greens]

ZZZZZZ - another arguement between those who did join the UAs and those who didn't.
There is however one point i'd like to make though (are you sitting comfortably Raymond?). Maybe i am young, silly and naive as you so kindly pointed out Raymond, but i enjoyed 3 fantastic years as a member of Liverpool UAS. This no doubt provided an excellent stepping stone into the commercial world and i now occupy the RHS of an A320 for a large British carrier.
True the UAS might not be everyones cup of tea but why slag something off that you have obviously never been apart of and probably don't know much about? Anyway the bottom line is we are all interested in flying and the UAS provides this for free.
Best of luck to all those (UAS and non-UAS) in the search for employment/sponsorship - hang on in there.

[Silver Tongued Cavalier]

I must agree with Judge Jules, if you think that having a minor gripe about an airline selection on Pprune will have no consequences whatsover then you are very silly indeed. People will track you down if they are determined enough.

I too went for BM last year and got interrogated about a post not written by myself, regarding the preparation for the 10 minute talks at the final board, and needless to say, none of us with that university email address got in. Not saying that was definately a factor in my rejection of course! But it didn't really help create too good an atmosphere in the interview!

As for my opinion on UAS's, my personal experiences included:

1) 110hrs Bulldog (LL Nav and Formation)
2) Great flights in loads of types of RAF Aircraft
3) Met loads of great mates for life
4) Got paid for it!

And 15 hours in the back of a Hawk!!

In my opinion thats not too bad was it. If I hadn't been in a UAS I'm sure my Uni life would not have been half as fun and rewarding, and I'm sure I wouldn't be here at OATS on a Sponsorship scheme if I hadn't UAS on my C.V.

I feel really sorry for the people who missed out, and their posts on this thread bring a smile to my face, they are full of bitterness and envy....

Guys get a reality check.....You couldn't see a good thing if it smacked you in the face!!!

See Ya
S.T.C.

[Pete Tong got power]

Hi Silver Tongued Cavalier, see you at OATS tomorrow...

Have to agree with everything you said there, UAS whooped ass!

Petey

[WX Man]

Silver Tongue- what was the offending post and/ or University? Please explain!

[Gary Lager]

Hello my friend...long time no C :)