Verbal Reasoning

[SHIMMY]

Does anyone know where you can get any books/sample questions for the type of verbal reasoning paragrahps etc that BA do
I've looked in the library and they have good books on the maths/other psychometric stuff but nothing remotely similar to the verbal reasononing stuff
Any help gratefully received

[pitchlink]

VERBAL REASONING!!!!!!! When I went for BA (quite a while ago)!! the only people who seemed to get through were those who woke one morning, saw the advert in the paper for sponsorship and thought "That looks like a good job!" The likes of you and me, we've wanted to fly all our lives and we don't get a look in. Does verbal reasoning really equate to whether you can manage to fly an aircraft or not. I would say not! The thing that does is the fact that you are motivated enough to learn and put yourself through the process.
I was lucky and got into the industry through sponsorship with a company who looked at your motivation, and general aptitude to the specific job, not whether you could analise a sentence. Sorry this is not the info you require but it does annoy me that companies can reject someone out of hand without even talking to them and establishing the motivation behind the dream!

[This message has been edited by pitchlink (edited 28 November 1999).]

[StudentInDebt]

Funny, on my feedback from BA they said I had aced the verbal reasoning paper, and I've wanted to fly since I was 5! Pity about my maths though http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/frown.gif

Anyway back to the original question, the type of test that you sit for the verbal reasoning is no different to the Nuffield or Longmann type tests I sat at school during English Language lessons. I bought a book called The Guide to GMAT testing for about £12 and it was stuffed full of examples and practise questions that will get you in the right frame of mind.

[RoosterBooster]

Hi Pitchlink

I agree with your point. I am keen to know who you were sponsored by, and any other details about them you may have at hand.

Ta

[TipTop]

Pretty soon the Airline interview will incorporate a DNA test to see if you are a 'Valid' or a 'Non-Valid'.

Ummmm

[Weasel]

My position was the same as Student's last year, creamed the verbal, and messed up the maths...

To qualify the test... I believe that verbal reasoning is important for flying. Essentially it is a test of your ability to think logically and quickly, whilst only considering the facts given. If that's not important then I don't know what is.

I used a variety of 'Kogan Page' books. They're the glossy paper backs found in the reference or careers section of good book shops, they all have a picture of a graduate in mortar board and a gown on the front. I found them quite good practice for verbal and maths.

[Pontius]

Hey guys, give me a clue here.

Is the cadet scheme's (or whatever we're calling it this week) tests the same as the DEP tests? I hope for the sake of some of the contributors here they're not.

The verbal reasoning I have sympathy for those failing, but if the CEP maths tests are the same as the DEPs' you really have no excuses. 10 minutes and do as many of the 30 questions as possible is fairly standard, but we're not talking rocket science are we. Let's face it a bit of adding, subtracting and multiplying is hardly unrealistic stuff to expect an airline pilot to perform. A drill bit rortates at 2400rpm - how many times does it rotate per second? Like I say, almost primary school stuff. It would surprise me if you guys really failed the maths test!

If the CEP tests are different, point me on the right trail.

Cheers,

Pontius

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Treat Your Women Like Your Kites. Hurrah !!


[This message has been edited by Pontius (edited 28 November 1999).]

[Weasel]

Hi Pontius,

They probably are the same tests, but remember that they pass on an 'upper quartile' type method, and so only a certain percentage will pass, no matter how good or bad they are.

Having said that it wasn't anything that a little practise wouldn't have sorted out...and second time around I was OK...You just gotta be better than the rest.

Practise...practise...practise...

[corsair]

It's my understanding that there is a cut off point in these tests. If you do well in all except one, even if by only by a small margin.You're out. With maths you can practice, practice and it will help. Verbal reasoning on the other hand, is more ephermal. If you're naturally inclined that way it's easy.That's the case with me, however I need to work on my maths which is a lot weaker. Frankly I'm dubious about learning to be good at Verbal reasoning. It's like learning to be a footballer or a singer, you either have it or you don't. But as a consolation I would say the cut off point would be lower for verbal reasoning than for maths. Having said that a bit of practice for wouldn't do any harm.

I read somewhere that most pilots were found to 'left brained' ie practical, logical and good at maths. 'Right brained' people on the other hand are artistic, good at verbal reasoning and presumably illogical or should that be lateral thinkers. Has anyone else any info on this?

[A320 SFO]

Verbal Reasoning.
Quite a simple exercise, if you know how to attack the problem. My tip for you guys, go out to your local newsagent and purchase a couple of "real" newspapers. ie Times, Telegraph etc, read an article, prefably one which has no interest what so ever. Once you have read it intensly, re-write the article the way "you" have understood it and interpretted the subject in question.
This is quite a boaring scenario. However, it really does work in increasing your "verbal apptitude" quite substantially.

It worked for me years ago, and verbal reasoning hasn't changed one bit.

Good Luck to all..

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Low Energy..Low Profile




[This message has been edited by A320 SFO (edited 29 November 1999).]

[Superfly]

SudentInDebt,

Do you have the ISBN number for the book you were talking about. I would be very interested about working with this one as my last failed attempt with BA was because of Verbal reasoning >>>> It's hard to be French sometimes !!!!!!

Cheers,

Superfly

[StudentInDebt]

Here's the book I bought
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0446396389/qid=943890180/sr=1-64/026-9017303-5068827

nb this post is not an endorsement of amazon.co.uk - other online bookstores are avaliable :)

[Superfly]

Hey SID, COOL !!!!
Thanks for the tip mate.
I'll rush for that one and prepare seriously for the next selection !!

Superfly

[rookie#1]

Corsair, don't write off those who found the verbal reasonong difficult - there will be many people who failed by only a slight margin, incl. myself, but I truly believe practice will bump me over that pass line. Top footballers don't become "top" without practising 5 days a week.

[no sponsor]

Pontius,

You are correct in thinking the Maths test is the same one. 30 simple questions in 10 mins. The pass mark is 15 correct questions.

Unfortunately I only answered 15, and I know I got one wrong.

So I am guilty of being a thicko.

Too bad we won't get to fly together is all I can say - unless you come to Booker.

[isobar]

Yes, still the same qestions in the maths test but only 26 of them and 12 minutes time now. Also you will be allowed using a calculator.
Verbal stuff is 52 questions in 25 minutes.

good luck

Iso

[Uplinker]

Corsair,

Picking up on your left/right brained comment in your posting;
My understanding was that Pilots, Engineers, and Air Trafficers, as well as Artists, are predominantly right brained. This enables us to think laterally, and imagine things in 3 dimensions amongst other skills. Left brained people are better with figures and language etc, and so people who work with lots of data in list or figure form are more likely to be left brained.
I would guess that most of us are mixtures of left and right to differing degrees; with say an Artist being almost totally right brained, and an Accountant being mostly left brained.
Any Psychologists out there who could enlighten us ?

[StudentInDebt]

I have it on good authority that the pass mark on the CEP maths test is more like 20, not 15. Do not be complacent