CTC icp

[pdn83]

Hi everyone, I have just been accepted through phase 1 and been invited to an assessment day at CTC for the icp route. I do have a fair bit of info on CTC and the industry as im currently cabin crew with easyJet but just wondered if anybody has gone the icp route or trained with anybody now online that went that way, is it a safe bet as you still have to apply for the ATP scheme at the end?! Thanks.

[PrestonPilot]

Is the icp just a more expensive version of the wings scheme for people not deemed up to standard for that?

Then once you finish you have to pay more for the AQC?

Was just trying to make sense of it on CTC's website.

[vikdream]

Through the ICP route the course is a bit cheaper, but it does not include the advanced phase and, of course, is fully self-sponsored. If you want to do the advanced training, you have to qualify for the AQC, and of course pay for it on top of the course if you pass.

[PrestonPilot]

But wings includes the AQC in the 69,000 plus the PPL cost doesn't it?
So which is cheaper overall if you want to do everything? I can't see a cost for the ATP.

and what about if i can self fund the wings programme instead of ICP? Am I allowed to do that?

[vikdream]

As far as I am concerned, the ICP does NOT include the AQC. In fact, you don't even have a place in the AQC after your basic training. If you want to do it, you might have to pass the pilapt and the interviews as any other ATP candidate (that's what we were told during our assessment), and of course pay for it.

I personally don't see what's the benefit of the ICP compared to the Wings Scheme. The ICP is a self-sponsored ATPL which MIGHT offer you the possiblity of landing a job in an airline. The Wings Scheme is a sponsored programme in which, if you perform well, you will be offered a job.

The ICP might be a good option for those that don't qualify for a sponsored cadet programme (and could be compared with the ATPL courses offered by Oxford, FTE or other training centres). However, if you have the option for one of them (CTC, BA FPP, Flybe, Aer Lingus...), I don't see why you would self-sponsor a ATPL.

[PrestonPilot]

Yeah, that's exactly what I'm trying to work out.

You say CTC is a sponsored course and so does it's website, but you still have to deposit a £69,000 security bond.
What I'm asking is, does it make any difference to CTC if that £69,000 comes from self funded money or the loan offer that BBVA provide?

If I can put down my own £69,000 then it is a self funded course is it not, and it's exactly the same as ICP but cheaper and you get placed in a holding pool?

[vikdream]

The ICP course is around 71K pounds, + the AQC (around 7K), so it's more or less the same price as the Wings Scheme (69K of Security Bond + 8K).

Regarding the Security Bond, it's true that, nowadays, it seems that the trainee never gets that back. However, it might change for the near future and, at the end of the day, it's still your money (hold by a third party, but still your money).

Remember that, as the Wings Programme is the sponsored one, you will be offered a job at the end and you will have the highest priority in the holding pool. Take into account as well that, through the ICP route, you might start your training and don't have the skills to qualify for the AQC afterwards. Even if you do, take into account that the ICP trainees are often those who haven't met the standards for the Wings Scheme, so their pass rates and their "quality" are lower.

As I said before, I don't think many people would choose the ICP route before the Wings Scheme, but anyway it's up to you. I imagine you will have to go to Dibden Manor for the last stage. There they will tell you everything you need to know.

[Bealzebub]

Regarding the Security Bond, it's true that, nowadays, it seems that the trainee never gets that back. However, it might change for the near future and, at the end of the day, it's still your money (hold by a third party, but still your money).

That is a misunderstanding. The "bond" is the core sum that is used to pay for your training course. The "third party" you refer to is a a subsidiary of the same organisation. It is not your money. However, once you succesfully complete the wings course the "bond" might depending on the placement offered, be transferred (purchased) to an airline, who might in turn return it to you over a number of years. Different airlines have different contractual arrangements, so the terms and conditions of these placements may vary from airline to airline. One thing is for sure though, the training organisation will be paid for the training provided and the "bond" is the core vehicle for ensuring that.
You say CTC is a sponsored course and so does it's website, but you still have to deposit a £69,000 security bond.
What I'm asking is, does it make any difference to CTC if that £69,000 comes from self funded money or the loan offer that BBVA provide?

No it doesn't make any difference at all. BBVA is a commercial bank that in small part specializes in this type of finance. There is no assumption that an offer will be made as the lending criteria are very strict. This type of finance through this particular bank, is only offered (subject to status) through a couple of the principal flight training providers.

The "bond" is financed in stages over a period of around 14 months, so the payment schedule doesn't get too far ahead of the training delivery schedule.

Remember that, as the Wings Programme is the sponsored one, you will be offered a job at the end and you will have the highest priority in the holding pool.

You should be clear on this point. The intention is, that provided you successfully complete the course under the "wings" programme, a placement will be sought with a partner airline (usually for a period of 6 months or so.) Obviously this depends on the airlines requirements at that point. At the moment things are very good on that score, but depending on the economic realities at the point of graduation and the seasonal distortions to the recruitment market, that might not be a seamless transition. It is also a placement that comprises part of your advanced training rather than a "job" in the sense that a contract of employment is offered at that point. It is hoped that contracts of employment would dovetail from these placements, but there is absolutely no guarantee of that. Nevertheless, an individual completing such a placement, should have experience that makes them far more attractive and marketable in the wider employment market should a contract of employment not follow on.

Some airlines (certainly not all) also allow for monies from the "bond" to be returned to the candidate over the placement period in order to support the lack of a core salary during this period.

The wings course in the current marketplace certainly has a very good track record, however it requires pre-selection and the maintainance of a standard. If that standard isn't maintained, an individual can be withdrawn from the programme and may be offered one of the other training programmes on the terms and conditions applicable to those programmes.

As I understand it, the other programmes (ATP and iCP) provide an opportunity for a place in the AQC scheme with the possibility of airline "placement" subject to requirements at that point in time. That depends on the candidates performance and is subject to additional costs.

If an individual decides on this route, it is important to have a good understanding of the courses and the many different types of placement that may (or may not) be offered upon succesful completion.

If you can get on it, the "wings" programme is undoubtably the best way to go. The other courses provide an opportunity to parallel many of the advantages of this course, but they place more risk on the individual.

[Ricson]

I know the wing programme would be the best choice, but as far as I did not have an EU passport (Non-European), iCP would be the only possibility.

I applied their Flybe Cadet programme and they put me in iCP. They said I need to have a EU passport so that they can transfer me to Cadet Programme. Sigh...... I am from Hong Kong and I owned an useless British Nationals (Overseas) Passport, which is not recognized in EU......And because of that, I can only go iCP which I can barely finance myself.

They kindly gave me financial advise, loans from BBVA, but it only takes props in UK or Spain into account.

I am still thinking of going the interview or not. But if it is self-finance, what is the purpose of having the interview? What's the difference between CTC and other Flight Schools? That's what I dun understand.

[LPVL]

and what about CTC Takeoff scheme?

[future-pilot]

The CTC takeoff scheme is the modular training. However the best choice remain the CTC wings cadet scheme for those who wants to join an airline as soon as possible.

[Ricson]

But it only opens to European only~

For those who are international students, that would be gambling their money...

Jobs are not guarantee, for sure and reasonable, but all people should share the same opportunity in internship. For graduates, flight hours are crucial in further job hunting.

[future-pilot]

Ricson, you should try for the Cathay pacific cadet program.

[fa2fi]

What about the internal part sponsored scheme? I've heard it's happening this year too.

[future-pilot]

What is the "internal part sponsored scheme"???

[Ricson]

Ya, I tried KA and CX as well. But CX announced they would not take any flight crews this year (claimed not including pilots) and my application has processed for almost a year already.

For KA, unfortunately I failed their tests. And I still have to wait a few days to re-apply the same post.