Qantas to reduce heavy maintenance labour by 60%

[QF94]

think you will find "till the 747's are gone".....here we go again more redundancy's on offer all over ...hope its the case so no one gets tapped...the rim

Unfortunately, all those that went in the recent redundancies are all the ones that wanted to go, as the company struggled to get the numbers. Next lot of redundancies will be "taps on the shoulders".

[Roger that.]

To the guy's & gal's at Tulla. If only the senior knob's could come out with a business decision of the same quality that you guy's can produce when you push an aircraft out the door, this airline would be in a much better postion.
But while our CEO has discarded you like ..... a used prophylactic, (on a Saturday night, after 2 too many Gin and Tonic's) remember this. In two year's time you'll be able to hear the faint echo's from mission control saying "Why in God's earth did we close Melbourne?".
Steve, I think black arm band's should be sent out ASAP.

[ACT Crusader]

Media Release was out before anyone told anything at Avalon .What a way to deal with Staff.:mad:

Would probably have to tell ASX before letting it out of the bag.

[Ngineer]

dont think aussies are the only ones who know anything about aircraft and maint.We are not the only ones who know how to fix them....the rim

I've seen few people make the comment that only us Aussies know how to fix aircraft. I don't understand why you (and some others) constantly raise this issue.

My main issue is when oversea's MRO's have 1 LAE looking after, and certifying for, up to 3 aircarft in a hangar which are being worked on by other staff. (Except when CASA arrives to do their audit, of course). I have once seen a situation where there was no LAE on shift. This is not how we do things in OZ.:ok:

[VBPCGUY]

Stop avoiding the question Fedsellout...........................Of all QF aircraft that arrive (on chocks) how many require the attention of a LAME?

Remember I perform this role so think carefully before you answer

Fedsellout dont get all high and mighty..................you FAILED.......... you FAILED QF staff in negotiating any sort of respectable EBA and most of all you FAILED to protect their jobs................you took their union dues and FAILED.

[airsupport]

There are other issues here too, sure it is so sad to see more Aussies lose their jobs, and although many of them may be happy to retire early or find another career what of the future.

Okay Qantas say they do NOT need all this expertise, and are happy to get what work is needed done offshore cheaper, but where does this leave the Industry, future Workers and Apprentices etc.

I have posted this before, however I think it is VERY relevant........

Way back when I was an Apprentice (late 1960s sometime), Ansett arranged for one of our Carvairs to go to Hong Kong for overhaul purely to save money, the then Australian Government stepped in, they allowed that one to go but banned future ones planned in the National Interest, they would NOT allow all the expertise and experience to be lost to Australia in case of any future Wars or Conflicts when we then would NOT want to be in a situation where we did not have the skills here to look after our own Aircraft and were relying on some other Country.

Surely this is even more relevant today, after all the Terrorism and Wars going on. :ugh:

Obviously neither the current Government or Qantas give a you know what about our safety and security. :(

[SpannerTwister]

Of all QF aircraft that arrive (on chocks) how many require the attention of a LAME?

Straw man - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man)

You're setting up a straw man argument either deliberately, through ignorance or trolling.

1) How many B767 and (20+ years) B734 does Virgin operate, these aircraft require a higher level of maintenance then "newer" aircraft.

2) Do you put oil in your cars engine EVERY time you check it, or would you say that you check your cars oil level "just in case" ? Is doing the pre-flight on an aircraft that turns out to be perfectly serviceable not unlike checking your cars oil level when it too turns out to be OK ?

3) Have you ever found a defect during a preflight ?

ST

(Gentleman's rules...I've got another point to make, but I forget what it is :D :D ....Going to bed now after night-shift (doing a check on an aircraft that refused to check or fix itself :sad:, will get back to you in a few hours !!)

[magic8]

There are still LAMEs at other bases still waiting to be offered VR from previous culls.Before LAMEs are forced to leave will all LAMEs from all bases be offered VR to minimise the pain of those poor Tulla engineers.Maybe the thought is that they will get numbers without forcing people out through Tulla VR and transfers to BNE.By the sounds of it hopefully not too many taps on the shoulders as first feared.

[ampclamp]

What would YOU do faced with the intransigent management at QF who don't care what you offer as they are going to outsource and offshore jobs regardless?

What would YOU do faced with management that shut down an entire airline to prevent legitimate PIA occurring?

What would YOU do faced with legal action from FWA backed by the Government requiring the halt to said PIA immediately?

If I were the vbpcbuy I'd post anonymous strawman criticisms on the net and..... oh wait..:ooh:

[Long Bay Mauler]

We've all seen the result of Virgin adopting no preflight checks.

I seem to remember a wheel departing a taxying aircraft on a relatively new aircraft. Yep,these machines are highly self diagnostic, aren't they?

Perhaps if Virgin insisted on LAMEs at least meeting and walking around the aircraft, that flying wheel may have been avoided, but for the time being, Qantas will have that safety net.

But time is running out..........and the net is unraveling

[porch monkey]

Perhaps you should read the whole investigation and report before you start slinging **** bugalugs. Engineer or no, made no difference.

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

Of all QF aircraft that arrive (on chocks) how many require the attention of a LAME?



About 20%. You need to establish which 20% first though and your chances of finding the problems on ground rapidly reduce when Engineers aren't present.

[VBPCGUY]

So my eyes are not as good as a LAME's eyes?

[AWB_Clerk]

So my eyes are not as good as a LAME's eyes?


I suspect it's got less to do with visual acuity and more to do with how much experience and knowledge held in your brain that interprets what your eyes see.:rolleyes:

AWBC

[VBPCGUY]

Well I will be performing the receipt and dispatch function this afternoon..................I will inform you of the outcome:ok:

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

So my eyes are not as good as a LAME's eyes?


I don't even know what you are. The checks have nothing to do with ones eyes, it's about their knowledge.

[600ft-lb]

PC is Pit Crew

He's a rampy. Full of knowledge too, or something.

[Jethro Gibbs]

No Qantas staff going at Avalon all going will be Forstaff just what they need more managers.

[going postal]

Maybe once Vbpcguy does his type course he'll understand what we are getting at. But I wouldn't hold my breath. :p

[IFOT]

I have witnessed many rampys doing walk arounds. Firstly I have no idea why on earth they assume they should be doing one.
Secondly, any rampy arrogant enough to undermine the procedures and processes already in use have no place working airside.
I have also witnessed rampys slamming a belt loader into the side of an aircraft's fuselage. They went and got the chief rampy who inspected the aircraft and gave a thumbs up to his workmates. At no time did they inform the crew or the engineers. It wasn't untill my colleague informed the engineers that the aircraft was inspected by a qualified engineer.
Arrogant rampys need to know their place and this is another example why engineers should be present on tarmac.

[AWB_Clerk]

VBPCGUY Well I will be performing the receipt and dispatch function this afternoon..................I will inform you of the outcome


Any numpty can plug a David Clark into an aircraft and feel special because he/she has memorized a sequence of instructions to say to the pilot upstairs in a deep serious tone of voice.

It takes quite a bit more for someone to know what they are doing when the poo minces through the fan and something goes wrong or the pilot wants to know something when faced with a problem that isn't covered in your sheet of memorized instructions.

AWBC

[airsupport]

So my eyes are not as good as a LAME's eyes?

This has absolutely nothing to do with it. :rolleyes:

It is about training and experience. :ok:

I was a fully Licenced LAME for some 40 years, Licenced Airframes and Engines on many Aircraft from F27s and Viscounts, DC9s, B727s, B737s, MD80s through to B767s and A300 and A310s, and have done quite a few preflights on all of those types.

However I was never Licenced on B747s for example, so there is NO WAY despite my decades of training and experience as a LAME that I would ever pretend that I could preflight a B747 properly, yet someone with little or no training thinks they can. :ugh:

[Bagus]

I heard Forstaff redundancy is not as good as qantas,and under constant review,why would u work for them,I would not one to get transfer there ,

[UPPERLOBE]

Sort of on topic...

What training is given to those PC people?

I'm old school but it would seem to me that plenty can go wrong during start & shutdown sequences, hung & wet starts or tailpipe fires to name a few hiccups.

Do these people carry out manual starts? get em up to open #4 pylon valve on a 747, reckon you wouldn't hear a deep voice then, lol. :ok:

[SpannerTwister]

I was a fully Licenced LAME for some 40 years, Licenced Airframes and Engines on many Aircraft from F27s and Viscounts, DC9s, B727s, B737s, MD80s through to B767s and A300 and A310s, and have done quite a few preflights on all of those types.

However I was never Licenced on B747s for example, so there is NO WAY despite my decades of training and experience as a LAME that I would ever pretend that I could preflight a B747 properly, yet someone with little or no training thinks they can. :ugh:

Are there my friend, is the nub of the problem :D

With those decades of experience we've learnt not only what we can do, but what we cannot do.

Ironically I'd feel perfectly safe flying in the 747 that you pre-flighted, that you wouldn't pre-flight, precisely because you know what you do not know.

Anyone who thinks they have a handle on aircraft maintenance after doing a "tick-and-flick" course is deluding only themselves.

Talk to me when you've done a four-year apprenticeship, got a licence and then five years experience as a LAME under your belt.

FFS, trades such as motor mechanic, plumber, house painter or hairdresser are 3 - 4 year apprentiships (or equivalent), how does the media, CASA, Qantas Management or anyone with half a brain think that aircraft maintenance is a two-week "tick-and-flick" course ?

ST

[Tidbinbilla]

Okay gents. We've drifted far enough off topic.

Qantas reducing HM labour by 60% is the topic. :)

[QF94]

According to our lovable AJ, aircraft don't require as much maintenance as they once did. Painting a house or doing hair has not changed over the centuries. That's why a two week tick'n'flick course is now appropriate. Aircraft are being brought into line with new car maintenence.

[airsupport]

Okay gents. We've drifted far enough off topic.

Qantas reducing HM labour by 60% is the topic.

Sorry, I was just trying to clarify something for someone who does not seem to understand the duties etc of an LAME. :ok:

On topic though, that may be part of the problem too, I wish I had a dollar for every time over those 40 years that while doing a routine preflight I found something that while NOT needing immediate action was something that needed further investigation later, and these items were referrred through the system for the next check or for investigation/action during heavy maintenance.

Now with LAMEs not doing regular preflights, sometimes not even attending an Aircraft if there are no reported problems and the people doing these turnrounds not being very trained and experienced, maybe this is one reason Qantas CAN reduce HM costs by 60%, because they are not aware of 60% or more of the impending problems.

[aveng]

Unfortunately VBPCGUY is just the sort of 'can do' numpty that will be issued with an A licence.:ugh:

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

How's this for a bunch of Wally's. We meet with them yesterday and say, ok so you have announced that 227 positions will be available in Bne for people to transfer to. How many of them will be LAME positions? IR replied by saying that they don't even know anything about 227 (the Bne blokes were told this by the EGM of Engineering).

So we said to IR, ok maybe you aren't sure. We turn to the head of Qantas Heavy Maintenance and say to him. "You've made this decision, how many LAMEs will you need in Bne to cater for the 738 aircraft you will maintain there?". Answer -

We're not sure yet.

VBPC guy. Would you consider a job running Qantas Engineering? I think you may be more qualified, I suspect you are more capable and you certainly have the right attitude to deal with those pesky unions.

[Jethro Gibbs]

FFS his company really is run by a Pack of over paid Tools :mad:

[The Golden Rivet]

As a va tech ame, I'm appalled at the behavior of vbpcguy his rants do not reflect the guys I work with at all:mad: We all either have mates with, did our apprenticeships with or worked with the guys from qf that now find themselves unemployed. I hope that everyone sees the bulltish that spews from his crusty keyboard as those that reflect a madman..... Shut the f$&)@ up, we know who you are...

To the qf guys , having gone through this 10 years ago things do get better and as someone who has worked at qf heavy in brissy before, it's really not that bad.

[Bagus]

Who knows in the next few years when they retire all 767 ,there could be another bout of redundancy,787 is not going to be maintain there.

[empire4]

I remember approx. in 2005 a JAL 747-300 at S.I.T that was pushed back and have the Wing Gear Trunnion snap in half. The sound was apparently not that loud. The only reason the it was picked up was the fact the LAME went to investigate on a gut feeling saving the A/C from a certain massive incident.

VBPCGUY, I hope you remember this thread for the unfortunate souls that are aboard the aircraft when it happens to you and you let it fly! Clown.