Western Europen Jobs

[22k]

Hi guys, sorry of this has been covered elsewhere, searched and found not much.

What is the situation in western Europe? (The Netherlands, Belgium, France etc) with regard to foreign pilots? I am an Aussie ATPL holder with 737 classic time and a total of nearly 3000 hrs. I have no euro passport and no way of getting one unless I get lucky with a nice Euro lady and marry her but my Mrs might not like that!! :(

Do any of these euro operators take o/s guys? I understand I'd need to get a JAA lic etc but im wondering about sponsorship!

Any ideas?

[Jerry Lee]

Stay in Australia, I would love living there!!!

Anyway, the situation is very bad and you need the right to live and work in EU.

[22k]

Good thought that Alister! Hell, I'd swap house and all for an exchange for a few years!!

[elmetal]

what's the western europe scene looking like for a EU Citizen? I'm currently in Brazil but I plan on trying Africa, Australia or the EU after this. I have Brazilian CPL and FAA CPL as well.

I couldn't find the appropriate subforum for just europe though I found them for australia and africa, etc.


My main countried of concern are Portugal (as I speak portuguese), Spain (as I speak spanish), Italy, France Germany and Sweden, but any country that an EU citizen is allowed to work is ok with me as long as the language isn't a requirement! (Unless that language is Spanish Portuguese or english!)


In any case, I appreciate your time gents

[Denti]

Very bad. Several smaller airlines closed down recently and there is a huge surplus of low experienced CPLs fresh out of flight school (in some cases for years) and quite a few very experienced pilots. Added to that the economic situation is getting worse with greece firmly in a deep recession and spain and portugal either beeing there or heading there as well. IATA just changed their market outlook for european airlines in 2012 to a loss just shy of a billion euros for all of them. Several major airlines are either stopping growth or even actively reduce their fleet seize. One has to see what happens with Iberia Express and the labour dispute about it.

Growth can be found in the low cost sector with easyjet, wizzair and probably to some extent ryan air. Those usually only take inexperienced pilots from selected flight schools that have to pay their own type rating. There is limited hiring at other airlines who often pay type ratings, but that is very limited indeed, if they run a cadetship program they always take their own cadets first and those are often enough to fill the open spots.

As for a pilot exchange program, we have something close to it. Every winter when we have a surplus of pilots a few of those will be send over to canadian airlines that are in need of pilots during the high season and have the opportunity to fly there for 6 months, something that is very much in demand over here. So far it is only a oneway street, but who knows what will chance.

[elmetal]

thanks for the reply! I'm just trying to figure out where to go from here and seeing how the scene is around the world, thanks!

[redsnail]

22k I am afraid with no visa/passport then the chances of being hired by a European airline are extremely slim.
Occasionally, some operators will hire non Europeans (i.e. without ancestral rights etc) but the last time that happened was well over 10 years ago.
The exams are a right pain and very expensive...

The Boeing 737 classic is a "dinosaur" here. Hardly any one uses them and with CPCLD coming in, most will probably sold off. You're better off with Airbus.

If you're getting itchy feet and you're worried about Qantas (quite frankly, I don't blame you) then I would head to Dragonair, Cathay, any of the Japanese airlines and so on.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but it's better than being sold a false dream.

[22k]

There goes my dream of strutting around Amsterdam in my KLM outfit!! :)

I thought as much but wasn't sure if there was some back door I was missing. Not too keen on Asia as I'd be spending the rest of my life trying to get home. At least in Europe I'd be somewhere I'd be happy to live for the rest of my years!!

Might just have to get myself one of them EU passport equipped Mrs' ;)

[skyhigher]

CPCLD? What might that be?

[Denti]

It is actually CPDLC or Controller Pilot Data Link Communications. Something which is actually absolutely usable in 737 classics. Not that many airlines still fly them apart from Lufthansa and Air Baltic (and a few old one at Norwegian).

[MartinCh]

22k,
If you're seriously going to find and marry a lady, I suggest Italian, French or a national of Norway. These, AFAIK, are the easiest for quick permanent residence or nationality (ie work rights in EU). By the way, the so-called EEA2 registration card is for common-law/long term partners or spouses of EU/EEA nationals, even living in other EEA country. Meaning you can sort paperwork having Spanish lady and living in the UK. Do your research online as no point detailing it here.
The problem may be the passport initially, even if you have right to work through EEA2, some companies may be biased due to 'unrestricted movement' or 'EU passport' stipulations.

All of this above is on top of the :mad: theory and not ideal job market as mentioned already. Oh, and if you have PIC time on heavier airliners, you may be exempt from the formal ground school racket, but still having to sit exams and the CPL LST could be in your sim, something like that. Or ATPL directly, since you got multicrew time.

You'd have to live in Europe long enough to know the only reason the grass is green is due to too much bureacratic :mad: and lots of rain (UK/Eire).

[truckflyer]

I would swap at once, you can come and live in UK, get an apartment of approx. 60 square meters, pay £1400 a month, or buy it for close to £280.000!

Pretty sure with that money, I would live as a king in Australia! This just outskirts of London, OUTSKIRTS!

At least we had 3 days of sun this month! :ok:

[zondaracer]

If you're seriously going to find and marry a lady, I suggest Italian, French or a national of Norway. These, AFAIK, are the easiest for quick permanent residence or nationality (ie work rights in EU).

Or find a spanish one... If married to a Spaniard and residing in Spain, you only need to live here for one year to be eligible for spanish citizenship

[captain.weird]

Try something like Virgin Blue or so.. Flying the tripple..

[Jerry Lee]

As far as I know, here in Italy you need at least 10 years to obtain the italian citizenship.

[zondaracer]

In Italy, it is ten years of legal residence for naturalization...
If it is through marriage of an Italian, it is two years of legal residence in Italy
:)

[truckflyer]

UK is 2 years for residency, 3 years for citizenship, however British women are not exactly the most attractive or classy women in the world, never mind Europe!

But of course you could find an Italian that lives in the UK, that would solve that problem! Paperwork will probably cost you the same as maintaining current!

Still for the life of me, I don't understand who would voluntary want to change Australian life for life in the UK!

[Jerry Lee]

Can anyone find me a nice attractive ozzie or kiwi girl? An American would be nice too:}

[22k]

Haha, this is awesome, it's now turning into a pilot dating service!

Yeah thanks for all the replies guys. I guess the grass is always greener (literally is in Britain!) but you always have your reasons and I know how the English would like to live here but for some reason a lot of us want to live there, even with the wx!! I was in London for the 3 days of sunlight, maybe that's why I'm so biased!!

[MartinCh]

Well, being married to Italian national living in the UK, you'd not have to spend any money on paperwork. Just file EEA2 family member residence 'card' paperwork, which is FREE (as mandated by EU) although dealt with by UK Home Office. HO'
No need for FLR(M) paperwork and the hefty fees.

Grass is green around here. My first time going North of Edinburgh towards Inverness, I was amazed at the almost neon green of the hills. So much rainfall.

Aussies/Kiwis go to UK on Working Holiday Visa and because of the fact/convenience of using English. Some to save up, some to enjoy themselves. They don't escape to UK like South Africans. Which doesn't have WHV anymore as the UK HO required the Tier whaever number, as WHV equivalent, to be reciprocical, so SA's take on things cancelled it for Saffas on WHV. Anyway, digressing.

You know, London is nice to visit for tourist, so are few other cities/areas. That doesn't mean that you'd like living here. This winter/spring weather has been very gracious to us, with the warmth and sunshine, but it's not normal.

I also suffer from 'seasonal depression' due to weather. Nothing serious, but it does get one down. People growing up/raised in the UK take it more easily. Continental Europeans or Aussies, hmm.

[wingreencard]

however British women are not exactly the most attractive or classy women in the world

try US ladies, it's ok, as long you don't take them on a boat, see what 's happened to the Titanic?:p.

[22k]

Ok guys,

Time to dust off this thread!

I have another question, say i was able to get a passport.

I have the time as I have detailed in the opening post (2600tt, 600ish 737, about 1800 command), to get the jaa done, would I have to do a course or can I do the 14 exams by distance then do a sim ride in Europe?

Just wondering, I'm aware that I would have to do all 14 but just not sure if I have to attend a course at a school!!

[Pittslover]

I think there is a certain experience level required for an exemption from having a groundschool involved which you probably meet.

Have fun with clicking then question bank:)

[Rui Dias]

22k, you have two options: you can apply for a licence validation or convert your licence to JAA. Licence validation is valid for 1 year and you can only fly 737's registered in the country where you made the application (example: if you apply in the UK, you can only fly UK registered 737's). If you want to convert your licence you have to do the 14 ATPL exams and you also have to do a multi engine rating and multi engine instrument rating.