Nimrod project progress at Kinloss

[Oldsarbouy]

NIMROD PRESERVED FOR PLANNED MORAY AEROSPACE CENTRE



Morayvia, which formed in May 2011, successfully purchased HS Nimrod MR.2 XV244, the 8th Nimrod delivered to the RAF at Kinloss, in mid- February 2012. Morayvia is taking forward work originally started by the Nimrod Heritage Group to preserve a Nimrod in Moray. Following submission of its Concept Paper on 31st May 2011, which detailed ambitious plans for an Aerospace Centre at Kinloss, Morayvia has worked to promote the project as a major tourist attraction that would help to diversify Moray’s economy. Morayvia is working with personnel of the Defence Infrastructure Organisation (DIO), RAF Kinloss and 39 Engineer Regiment on storage of the Nimrod whilst the aerospace centre project is developed. XV244 is the last remaining Nimrod MR.2 at Kinloss. It is presently stored in a hangar, however, the cost of keeping it stored inside is currently unaffordable and it will be moved to a hard standing soon, close to the proposed Aerospace Centre site at Kinloss. Whilst in storage it will be looked after by a team of volunteers, most of whom are former engineers, to ensure it is kept in the best condition possible. During the 1980’s XV244 was based at RAF St Mawgan, in Cornwall, and took part in many notable operations. XV244 made its last flight on 31st Jul 2009 having flown just over 18,000hours and was undergoing servicing when it was announced that the Nimrod MR.2 fleet would be withdrawn from service in March 2010, a year earlier than the originally planned date.In addition to the complete XV244, Morayvia has also managed to acquire the cockpit and forward fuselage section of Nimrod MR.2 XV240. This Nimrod had been, until recently, stationed as the gate guardian at RAF Kinloss since 2009. The cockpit and fuselage will become an exhibit in the Morayvia Aerospace Centre. XV240 was first delivered to RAF Kinloss as a MR.1 in July 1970 and converted to MR.2 status in 1983. A variety of membership options can be seen on the Morayvia web site.
For more information on Morayvia and its ambitious future plans please refer to the Morayvia website MORAYVIA | Registered Charity SC042895. A tourism project to help diversify Moray's economy (http://morayvia.org.uk/)

[Duncan D'Sorderlee]

BZ to Stan and the team!

Duncs:ok:

[bluetail]

And here,s the old girl :D

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s174/bluetail228/NIMRODMR2XV24423-2-123.jpg

[1771 DELETE]

Good luck Stan, i hope you can pull it off. Its a real shame that the MOD is charging storage with all those hangers standing empty. There is just too many people up top with blood on their hands trying to wipe the whole Nimrod fiasco under the carpet.

[Kreuger flap]

So you expect the tax payer to pick up the bill for the electricity used in the hangar for a privately owned, defunct former RAF Aircraft?

[A2QFI]

Put in a meter and pay for it. Better than wasting money on sending allowances to the families of immigrants from the EU whose wives and children are not even in this country! At least they are trying to preserve something British and make a tourist attarction for the future.

Way better than this sort of CARP

Taxpayer spends £400,000 on fig trees for MPs
Almost £400,000 of taxpayer money has been lavished on fig trees to decorate the office block of MPs.

[Courtney Mil]

Why am I not surprised that KF would have something negative to say about it. There's really no need to be so down on everything and everybody.

Well done you guys. I wish we could preserve more of our historic and noble aircraft. Although I never flew the mighty hunter, my father was a Maritime man for 37 years so in his memeory I am very happy to see this.

Really good luck!!!

[Thelma Viaduct]

It looks much better in grey than pprune yellow.

[ZOFO]

Nice work, Now in the old Ashes to Ashes style saying lets get her fired up and off out to the Horn of Africa Areas
BZ to all looking after her :)

[Oldsarbouy]

To enable KF to sleep easier I can assure him that no tax payer money or even electricity is being consumed whilst 244 is in the hangar.

[A2QFI]

Then what is OP refering to when it is stated that

It is presently stored in a hangar, however, the cost of keeping it stored inside is currently unaffordable and it will be moved to a hard standing soon, close to the proposed Aerospace Centre site at Kinloss. ?

[Scruffy Fanny]

I suppose you think spending £24 million on a fountain in Bradford city centre is value for money - the hangars are there - you can turn the lights off and the cost is zero - bit like yourself

[Avtur]

I flew that fantastic beast when I was on 42 (TB) Sqn and 236 OCU in the mid/late 80s, and at Kinloss after I was forcably ejected up there when the St Mawgan 9000 x 300 ft newly-resurfaced runway was handed over to Sea King helecopters.

To avoid the abuse from those that don't get get these issues on this site, I would be most grateful if you would please PM me with the plan of action or intentions for the old girl.

Best wishes.

[Courtney Mil]

Avtur,

I think and I hope that the idjuts that don't get it are in enough of a minority not to make any difference to those that do get it. I take your point, but don't let the ill informed drive the conversation underground, please.

With best intentions,

Courtney

[Avtur]

Roger; lets have it then...

[Donna K Babbs]

Excellent work. Congratulations to Stan and the team.

[Scuttled]

KF

It s modern, no nonsense, fiscally responsible thinking such as yours that has resulted in only two Lancasters left flying in the world today. And only one of those in the Mother country. Compare this to the equivalent US aircraft of the same era.

I know you love fishing, but just be nice and let those that care have this one little thing. Thanks. Appreciate it.

;)

[Adam Nams]

St Mawgan 9000 x 300 ft newly-resurfaced runway was handed over to Sea King helecopters

"Crikey, that's a short runway"
"But look how wide it is..."

Big enough for any helecoptore. :E

[BTW Well done chaps :ok: ]

[Oldsarbouy]

XV244 is in an unheated hangar for the very short term as the group cannot afford the rent proposed by DIO. During the time it is under cover it is only visited during daylight so no electricity is used at any time. In the very near future 244 will be towed to a temporary location at Kinloss pending the clearance of the caravan site at which time it will be moved there. The long term plan of Morayvia is to provide a purpose-built Aviation Heritage Centre to celebrate the involvement of the Moray Firth airfields through the years and XV244 will form the centrepiece. The centre will include the nose section of XV240, so as to provide wheel chair access, a cafeteria and an Imax Theatre so scope for lots of local employment.

[1771 DELETE]

Oldsarboy
Knowing that you are using no government money to keep the old girl in a hanger (the new paint job looks great) why, if the hangers are not yet required by the army, are you being thrown out? Is there no one in light blue that can make a decision up there, or is the MOD calling the shots at Kinloss?
As other contributors have already said with the exception of KF, this is our heritage and history that is being squandered for very little if any cost saving.

[A2QFI]

Who/what are DIO please? Is there no Officer Commanding RAF Kinloss, with discretion to waive or reduce the charges? As if you haven't thought of that!"

[bluetail]

DIO are the Defence Infrastructure Organisation and in effect now own the closed buildings within the boundaries of Kinloss. It would be part of the draw down of the base to hand them over to DIO.
The Station hand over buildings to DIO as they are vacated so the maintenance responsibility is transferred . XV244 is currently in No 11 Hangar (The old NMSU) which has now been formally handed over to DIO.
Because the Station do not "own" the hangars they now have no input (or desire to have any input) in rental agreements et al for their use.

If you wish to be part of Morayvia, you can join via me at
[email protected]

I would be happy to send you an application form

[Oldsarbouy]

I suppose I should clarify part of my last post. The nose section of XV240 is obviously not big enough to include a cafeteria much less an Imax Theatre although the front end has probably seen a few cream sponges in it's time!

[Jimlad1]

From my dealings with DIO and DE in a previous incarnation, my view is that they are stuck in the unfortunate position of being perceived as 'nasty people' despite often having hugely passionate people working for them.

The problem is twofold - firstly it is the issue that DIO has to be seen to either put the buildings to defence use (i.e. part of the MOD) or show how it is diversting itself of them, either to Govt or private sector. This means having to be absolute b@stards, and insisting on charging for things used by non MOD assets, because HMT has to see things done properly.

This is because in the good old days it was possible to turn a blind eye, but nowadays the media (self annointed guardians of moral justice) would hit the roof if they saw public buildings being used in a manner outside that laid down by the rules - no matter how worthy the cause is.

From DIO perspective, if they make an exception for one, then they are going to have to make an exception for all - would you like to see a charity supporting hugely dubious causes insisting on its right to free access to MOD facilities including power, maintenance and the like, because the real fear is that a cause we like gets a break, then plenty of others we may be less supportive of may get a good claim on these sort of facilities too.

There is the wider issue though as well of the defence budget being used indirectly to support private enterprise or charity, which raises all manner of issues over the use of public funds innapropriately.

Let me be clear - I think the Nimrod charity is a great idea, I hope it does really well and when I'm up that way later this year I'd love to put some money in their pockets if they are open. BUT I equally feel that once a plane is struck off charge, or a ship off our books, then it is no longer the responsibility of the public to provide funding indirectly for private charities - no matter how worthy they may be. The budget is squeezed to breaking point, and I'd rather we spent every scarce penny on inservice people, and not those charities showing out of service kit. I also don't want precedents set which means charities or causes that I would have real issues with using lawyers to find loopholes or exploits enabling them to use our facilities for free.

Ultimately its not the people at DIO to blame (both civil and military)- talk to them and you'll see the passion for defence in what they do. Someon though has to implement rules, no matter how distasteful people think they may be - it doesnt mean that they dont give a damn though.

[glojo]

It s modern, no nonsense, fiscally responsible thinking such as yours that has resulted in only two Lancasters left flying in the world today. And only one of those in the Mother country. Compare this to the equivalent US aircraft of the same era.

I know you love fishing, but just be nice and let those that care have this one little thing. Thanks. Appreciate it. Well said and I would love to see more monuments to our past.

Some folks enjoy life to the full and would never dream of insulting their fellow man, others however seem to take satisfaction out of being rude.

I have visions of our resident complainer being the one and only.......

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/today/reports/archive/features/images/victor_meldrew220.jpg

[500N]

Question re payment of crew et al. I may be missing something so if someone could explain, that would be good.

Why do they pay the crew to fly the Vulcan ?

I would have thought plenty of qualified ex Vulcan pilots would love to get behind the controls of a Vulcan again.

Who else gets paid and why ?

[Courtney Mil]

Oldsarbouy,

I'd hate to that comment quoted out of context. Oh, what the hell...

although the front end has probably seen a few cream sponges in it's time!

:ok:

Glojo, now that is funny!!!!!!!

[Courtney Mil]

500N,

I was surprised by that too. Maybe if they're running as their business it's OK. But it's important that people know where their donations are going.

[500N]

Courtney

Even if they are running it as a business,


Use you as an Example. If some organisation said they were setting up
a display unit of previous UK based FJ's including F16's, F15's, F4's etc and we need qualified pilots available to fly them to demonstrate at airshows, no pay but everything else paid for (fuel etc) how many volunteers would they get ?


Anyway, hope someone can clarify.

[Courtney Mil]

Indeed, 500. I and hunderds of others would be there like a shot. For free. In fact, I'm off to the sim in a month or so - see what I can remember.

I do agree with the point, I was highlighting the fact that, on top of that, it seems a bit low to get people donating without knowing that they're not just keeping a wonderful old girl flying, they're also paying the crew.

[glojo]

Am I alone in suspecting the SNP of trying to get their Maritime Defence Force on the cheap?:bored:;)

[vee-tail-1]

Not sure if this is relevant, but thought I would share this letter I sent to the IWM at Duxford. They have a Shack MKIII under conservation there ... perhaps they might like a Nimrod?

Before joining BOAC / BA as flight crew, I served as RAF aircrew on Shackletons. Operating as a Flight Engineer (air eng) on 201 & 203 squadrons and ASWDU from 1960 to 1970.

So on my first visit to Duxford on Sat last, I was surprised and delighted to see the very aircraft in which I last flew nearly 50 years ago. Like me it looks a little worn and has its wings clipped … but only temporarily I hope?

The Viper jets were installed in the outboard Griffon nacelles, and the controls were placed under the Flight Engineer’s desk drawer lid. This upset some Engs since that drawer had been used for spare pens, Dalton computer, and sandwiches (or Cornish pasties if operating out of St Mawgan!)

On take-off the pilots wound up the Griffons to 2750 rpm and max boost, and the Eng set his Vipers to full power in one co-ordinated action. … the resulting acceleration was brisk, but the noise and vibration was awe inspiring to both crew and outside onlookers. With four turning and two burning we took to the sky in a maelstrom of noise.

In those days the Griffon engines had become unreliable, especially when operated at max power with water meth injection. Rolls Royce passed Griffon engine overhaul to another firm, and engine failures became more and more frequent. Crews therefore saw the Viper jets as a ‘Get you home’ device rather than an assist for take-off. My expectation of at least one Griffon failure on every mission came true when on patrol far out in the N Atlantic. Having successfully feathered an outboard engine we were unable to maintain height on the other three, so I lit up the corresponding Viper jet. We then climbed slowly to a respectable(for a Shackleton) altitude of 3000 feet. At this stage I realised that the high fuel consumption of the jet engine meant we would run out of fuel before reaching home. So for the next few hours I would shut down the Viper, the Shackleton would slowly descend to below 1000 feet, whereupon I would restart the Viper and we would ascend … we made it home and a beer in the Sgts Mess bar never tasted so good.

A notable trip for my squadron was a goodwill mission to the SAAF base at Ysterplaat in S Africa. We flew a Viper equipped MK III Shack down through Africa at an unprecedented 8000 feet altitude. It was the only time I ever used the two speed superchargers on the Griffon engines. We carried two crews on the aircraft for that trip, and when off watch my favourite position was right down in the tail looking out of the Perspex cone at the African scenery passing slowly (150 knots!)below. Looking at your aeroplane brings it all back quite vividly.

Another special moment for me occurred at Duxford on the same Saturday. Having retired from BA I fly a little vee tail Robin ATL, and always intended to fly into Duxford with my teenage son. To my surprise there in front of the control tower was a French registered Robin ATL identical to mine … the owner turned out to be just as enthusiastic about her aeroplane and the contact really put the cream on a splendid day for me.

Very many thanks … and can I please climb up the parachute hatch ladder into the Shackleton flight deck once again next time I visit Duxford?

[fincastle84]

I last flew in XV244 in May 1983. We were deployed to KSS flying Survops & used it as valuable training for the Aird Whyte later in the month. I'm too modest to say who won, but as it was a Mk 1 we weren't allowed to participate in the Fincastle later in the year. Thanks George!!:ugh:

Instead we had to do a Royal SAR to Cyprus, Nairobi & Bombay. B*gger!:ok:

Good luck with the preservation you guys. Keep her airworthy, you never know..................................!

[Duncan D'Sorderlee]

V-tail,

I believe that Duxford was 'offered' one of the last MR2s. They didn't want it. Not sure why.

Duncs:ok:

[TorqueOfTheDevil]

Might DIO be persuaded to sell said hangar to Morayvia for a modest sum? Let's face it, they won't be flooded with offers for an elderly hangar in deepest Moray, so they might be keen to dispose of it (the Arrse-mongers won't need every building at Findhorn Barracks, surely?).

[aw ditor]

The Mk 3 Phase 3 Shack. at Duxford stood "outside" for many years. Lots of pressure' from the Association and the advent of the big hangar got it "inside" at last. The then (?) aircraft curator was an ex RN helicopter-orientated person which may explain why the Mk 2 was refused. The Griffon 57 was "somewhat unreliable" on the Phase 2 aircraft, hence "Pop" GLadstone's AFC.