GA job hunting

[Sagit89]

Hello everyone,

So the situation is that I am on my final year at University after which I am aiming to get my "frozen" ATPL in OAA or FTE (almost done with FTE selection, but the last news about their management made me consider OAA). However, as I can see, the situation with first jobs is not the best and even with all the ATPL exams passed 90+ it takes months or even years to get a job. So I was looking for some possibilities to work in GA, while applying and waiting for the responses.

Surfing through the internet all was found is Airline jobs for usually experienced FO's. Although, no matter what I type in in Google, I simply can't find any GA jobs except for Instructor ones.

Is there any site where those could be found, or is the only way to find GA jobs in Europe is to call aero clubs and question them?

[4015]

Allow me to answer using your own words and a slight change of punctuation:

The only way to find GA jobs in Europe is to call aero clubs and question them.

You will not find these jobs on the internet because there are easier ways for the employer to find people - they recruit people they know.

These people get known by networking. I really can't oversell the amount that networking is important in this game. Sitting at a computer screen isn't the way forward, get out there and talk to people. Go and clean planes, go chat to people in airport cafes/bars/ops rooms/tea rooms...

[CookPassBabtridge]

Also be aware that a fresh CPL/IR doesn't necessarily put you in a position to be eligible for these GA jobs (of which there aren't many in the first place!)...

I have some part-time GA work as a result of a useful contact and some intense networking(!), but even so, it's cost me around £3k to make myself eligible to do it in terms of hours and experience on type.

My experience is that if you don't know someone already, you're going to have a really tough time getting "in".

Good luck!

[MIKECR]

Define 'GA' jobs. If we're talking the likes of parachute dropping, glider towing etc then generally these are not jobs per say. These positions are filled by club members who are also glider pilots, parachutists etc. Its certainly not paid either. Maybe 1 or 2 of the big parachute clubs will pay a Pilot some weekend beer money but you'll need to have lots of hours under your belt, probably turboprop time too. But certainly speak to your smaller local gliding/para clubs and enquire about any flying as you might just strike lucky. It wont be anything paid though.

As for air taxi flying, forget it unless you have hundreds of multi engine piston hours, including IFR time. Air taxi work is not for the inexperienced as its single pilot IFR which is hard work in an old twin.

Anything else in the GA scene that actually pays any money such as flying biz turboprops(eg Kingair) single pilot etc is way out of reach for a 200 hour frozen atpl'er. For insurance reasons if nothing else. Private owners employ experienced pilots to fly them around. Even in multicrew biz jet ops you'll usually find the FO is reasonably experienced. Again, owners pay good money for an experienced crew up front. Theres always exceptions of course but few and far between. The other problem in the biz jet side of things is you need contacts. Unlike the airlines, its all about who you know. Most jobs are filled by word of mouth.

Best bet - try and get on one of the airline partner schemes, as theres more chance of winning the lottery than getting a decent paid 'job' in GA!

[Jerry Lee]

Then how to make it? Instruct?

I'm interested in this thread just because I live in the southern region of Italy and the closest operating airfield is LIRN/NAP (Napoli Capodichino).
I'm starting flight training on August in America and I don't know what I will do afterwards. Probably I will spend another year, two if possible, to instruct and raise the number of hours. Thinking of instructing in Europe too.
But... I know nobody! How can I make it?
If a carrier does not take, nor Ryanair does what would be my best move? I'd really like to avoid P2F just to make my CV... nicer?

[Sagit89]

I know one instructor in UK, who after finishing OAA got his instructor license and started teaching, after pretty much a year (never asked him though how long it took him) he got airliner job. Also I was told by another instructor, that after he got his license the same day he got invited to work for the FTO he was taught by.

[MIKECR]

Instructors earn sod all....its slave labour. The way into an airline just now is either via an airline scheme through an FTO, or Pay to Fly and hope you get kept on, or join the Irish Lot. The current market in Europe has little or no alternative route into the airlines unless you have multicrew time. The markets in the Far East and Middle East are growing but you still need Airbus or Boeing TR's and hours on type.

Yes, there are still the GA self improver types(instructors, air taxi pilots) who get into small Regional airline type jobs.....but they are few and far between. Competition is stiff. Typically 50 to 60 CV's per day for approximately 2 positions per month.

As I said, best bet is via an FTO/airline scheme.

Thats the reality just now. Things may change of course in 2 or 3 years but the industry is still clawing itself out of recession.

[Jerry Lee]

Oh, I just noticed I didn't write my post properly, not in the way I would to.

I want to say that I am not looking at airlines or regionals, well not only at them. I would be deeply happy if I could have a flying job even in any kind of aircraft. My dream aircraft is not a Boeing or an Airbus, but mind you, a Bombardier Learjet, Challenger and maybe one day a Global Express:8
Yeah, it will probably be harder to secure a job in the bizjet industry than the airline industry...

I just want a flying job that allows me not only to live in a decent way, but also to build a family one day. Yes, I'm nearly 20, but I already know that one day I'll want a family... :ugh::ugh:

[WX Man]

MIKECR is spot on. You might find a 200h CPL/IR sitting in the RHS of a King Air, but they usually won't be type rated, and will be employed as something like an "operations assistant", or "cargo monitor", or some other BS job title like that. In reality, they will fulfil the role of a F/O, but because it's a single pilot a/c, there's no legal requirement to have the RHS occupied. It's simply the way that most operators like to operate their a/c.

Also, unless you are TR'd, you can't log the hours.

You will, however, be in the front running for a job when that operator is looking for a pilot. If you do the proverbial "sweeping the hangar floor" for someone like Saxonair or Tag, and they know you are looking for a pilot job, they'll hopefully remember that the next time they're looking for someone to train.

Problem is though that most GA jobs that aren't "operations assistant" or "cargo monitor" (i.e. F/O on a Citation) usually call for someone with 2-500h on type.

(as an aside, I saw an ad the other day whose minimum requirements were:

- CPL/IR
- 200h total time
- First time passes in all ATPL subjects
- Right to live & work in the EU

(alright so far, isn't it...?)

- Citation type rating

(OK, not necessarily a problem)

- 500 hours on type

.... I don't know many guys with 200 hours total time who've also got 500 hours on a citation!!!! :}