Skill Test in India before Conversion of Licence

[tolip111111]

http://www.dgca.nic.in/circular/FCL1_2012.pdf

[superdunkaroos]

Laughable

1. DGCA questioning the authenticity and integrity of flight training abroad, Pot meet kettle.

2. Opens up a new avenue for flying clubs and the babus here to milk more money from the unfortunate.(This used to be done before the fictitious shortage at the beginning of the boom)

Although the Idea itself is commendable but just will not work like they way it should, here in India.

[Intruder101]

Hello,
There are some questions in my mind regarding this notice just put up by the DGCA, hope to get a answer back soon.
1.what is this test all about?Is it a practical, oral or written?
2.are we suppose to do it from the same flight school abroad from where CPL and IR was issued or it has to be done in india only?
3.what is this test all about? i mean what might be the syllabus?
4.If it can be done in the US and duly signed by an FAA inspector will that be good enough...?

Thanks a ton in advance.
God bless.!

[equinox123]

NO TXT SPK - THNX

HWB

[cyrilroy21]

I kind of like saw this coming . All the DGCA officers hinted that this would be made the rule soon all thanks to the FAKE PILOT SCAM :ugh:

Not much of a difference than the old conversion chart .

The primary difference is if you want two types of aircraft ( multi and single ) endorsed on your license atleast one of the aircraft skill checks must be done in India

In Appendix I
(A) Applicants must obtain from foreign for submission along with application

If you look at item number 8 it states that the skill checks can be done abroad .

(B) Applicants need to do in India before submission of application:-

Item number 1 states that Single Engine skill checks has to be done in India .

It also states that if you only want Multi then the skill checks have to be done in India since you are only endorsing one single type of aircraft on your license .

@Intruder101
The multi skill checks and other PIC requirement can be done abroad but single engine skill checks have to be done in India . Contact a flying school ask them about the syllabus and other requirements .

I am guessing you will also need to hold an FRTOL and Student Pilot license prior to doing any recency flying in India


:ugh::ugh::ugh:

[matthewgamm]

@cyrilroy21, could you post the link forthe ATPL license conversion chart from an ICAO state (FAA)?
How much different is it from the current one to convert to the Indian CPL?

Thanks :)

[cyrilroy21]

The DGCA has not exactly published a Flow chart for ATPL

However you can use the application form as a checklist

http://www.dgca.nic.in/forms/crew-d/atpl_aR.pdf

I think the skill check requirement to be done in India will be applicable to ATPL and PPL conversion applicants .

[stiknruddr]

@cyril

I have noticed that you have a keen eye for detail and are always willing to help out on any querries regarding the DGCA.

I have gone through the flowchart and I have one or two main querries.

I have been trying to get Mr Vashist on the phone but no one's answering.

Lets see if we can work out an understanding here on this forum.

here goes....

If I want a single engine endorsement on indian CPL, then the flowchart does not mention any skill test/general test/cross country test to be done abroad but I will need to do them here in india. am i right so far?

Next, if I want only multi endorsement on the Indian CPL, I still have to do the Day test, night test, IR check on the multi at my foriegn school on the DGCA format (as per point no. 8 of the first box, Part A) . Now these day/night test are general test and not skill test correct?
However the last line of point 1 of Part B (second Box) says that the skill test will be carried out in India for multi endorsement. Which test are these? are they diff from the day test/nigh test/ir check mentioned above in part A, point no. 8? do I have to repeat those in india?
What about the cross country checks by day and night? will i need to them in india or abroad if I want only multi on indian CPL because i wont do them abroad as they are not mentioned in part A and I wont do them in india as I am only asking for multi on indian CPL and for that it only says i need multi skill tests here..

So to summarise, I will be getting a multi+IFR from abroad and will want only Multi+IFR here, not single or single+IFR. What do i need to do there and what do i need to do here in terms of flying/skill test?

On a related note, what is the difference between general flight tests by day and night Versus day and night skill test? I cant find the various forms for them on the DGCA site .only found CA 40 for general flight test. which forms are to be used for skill checks and cross country checks?

would be grateful to anyone who can clarify these for me.

[cyrilroy21]

Now these day/night test are general test and not skill test correct?

The Day , Night and IR check are the skill checks / tests . Form CA 40 B is used for the multi aircraft .

However the last line of point 1 of Part B (second Box) says that the skill test will be carried out in India for multi endorsement. Which test are these? are they diff from the day test/nigh test/ir check mentioned above in part A, point no. 8? do I have to repeat those in india?

In case CPL is requested only on Multi engine aircraft then skill tests on
the said type will be carried out in India

It has now been decided by the Competent Authority that all applications for issue
of Indian CPL will be accompanied with skill test reports on at least one aircraft type
required to be endorsed on the Indian licence in accordance with para 4 of the said CAR.

As you can see its clearly mentioned .

If you are getting both multi and single
Then Single to be done in India , Multi can be done abroad

If you are getting only Multi
Then Multi has to be done in India.
But then you will need to do the 1 hr day check ( skill test ) , 1 hr night check , 1 IR check
but also the 250nm VFR XC ( this is also a flying test )by and 120nm VFR XC ( also a flying test) by night also has to be done on multi .

Even though the flow chart does not mention it it clearly states in Schedule II
of the aircraft rules that XC test must be done on every aircraft that you want endorsed on your license ( sometimes the licensing officer skips this rule if you do xc checks on the single sometimes they enforce it for both multi and single , better to be on the safe side )

[aroumika]

this is as ridiculous at it can get :ugh: i'm just glad i got my license before this came into effect and i pity the ones who haven't, i just wish this rule can be overturned in due course of time

[stiknruddr]

"If you are getting both multi and single
Then Single to be done in India , Multi can be done abroad

If you are getting only Multi
Then Multi has to be done in India.
But then you will need to do the 1 hr day check ( skill test ) , 1 hr night check , 1 IR check
but also the 250nm VFR XC ( this is also a flying test )by and 120nm VFR XC ( also a flying test) by night also has to be done on multi ."

I see what you mean and you do make a lot of sense.

If I understand you correctly,
If I want CPL with Multi Endorsement only, I will need to do all these tests here on the said multi engine a/c and no tests on the single engine?
Do i need to do the tests twice for multi (day, night, IR)?
or do I skip them abroad if i'm going to do them here anyways?
What about the cross country tests on multi then, since i will need these too as per this interpretation?
which ones do I do abroad and which ones here.
Why do they need these tests there anyways if they are going to do them here.
These tests are not part of the Multi and IFR syllabus there and will be extra flights which will cost money.
Im sorry to keep going on about this but I just wanna make sure the rules dont force me to duplicate flights and want to be clear what has to be done abroad and what needs to done here.

[Kingmaker500]

i dont think an SPL and FRTOL will be required because its going to be a dual check. Maybe if we are flying solo in India we need one, but thats not the case here

[cyrilroy21]

@stiknruddr

Whenever I say Flying tests / Skill Check It means the following
1hr day check
1hr night check
1hr IR check
250nm VFR XC by day
120nm VFR XC by night


You dont have to do those tests twice . IF you only want CPL multi then the tests HAVE TO BE DONE IN INDIA .
You can do them abroad if you want but they wont recognize it . However you will need to be multi endorsed with IR on multi on your foreign license .



If you want both Single and Multi
SINGLE FLYING TESTS HAS TO BE DONE IN INDIA
Multi can be done abroad .

@Kingmaker
The Flying tests / checks are logged as PIC . They expect you to act as PIC and part of the test means operating the aircraft radio .

I not exactly sure about the SPL part but I am quite sure you need an FRTOL
I guess its best to confirm with one of the flying schools

[80-87]

'Indian Skill Test'. Oxymoron. This country's aviation is an international joke and disaster.

The DGCA Skill Test is: 'How skillfully can one slip a few thousand rupees into the palm of the TRE (who also bought his license), 24, 000 hours, endorsements on 10 high performance jets and has been actively working in aviation (so he says) for 40 years and he is only 35 years old...something doesn't add up.

ICAO needs to get tough with this lot. Soon!

[stiknruddr]

Cyril,

Thanks for the analysis, I am quite clear about it now.

Regarding the SPL and FRTOL, even DGCA is not clear about that yet.
I managed to speak to the erstwhile dy. director of licensing who has now shifted to a diff department.
He was one of the people who drafted this note last year and he explained it much the same way cyril has above.
When i asked him about the SPL and FRTOL reqt, he wasnt sure about it and said he hadnt foreseen that when the note was drafted. I guess they will come up with a work around for it by april or worst case, we end getting them for the skill tests.

[cyrilroy21]

Only 29/43 Flying Schools / Clubs are Functional In India :hmm:

List of Flying Clubs (http://www.dgca.nic.in/licencing/fly-ind.htm)

Please do your research thoroughly before you pay any money upfront to any flying school .

[hawaijahaj]

One Simple Solution: DO YOUR RECENCY FROM INDIA........i know it takes time but it saves you all the trouble......:ok::ok::ok::ok:

[estranged soul]

"Skill test" in Indian aviation ! I could die laughing !!

As someone above rightly said, the only real "skill" needed in India to get a flying license is to be able to pass on some wads of currency notes and a couple of bottles of scotch whiskey to that scumbag of an officer in the DGCA in New Delhi.

[Tango Alpha November]

Hey guys, just saw the amendments on the DGCA website and its got me worried :\.
1) First question, when are these amendments effective from?
2) And also, I have an NZ CPL and am in the process of doing my Multi and Instrument hours. My Dilemma is I intend to do the 40 hrs that DGCA requires, however, NZ doesn't endorse the IR on my CPL till I have sat for their IR exams (written and practical). Does that mean the skill test that is issued for the 40 hours in rendered invalid and would I have to then do an IR skill test/check flight in India. If that be so, can I do my single engine and IR skill test on the same aircraft and at the same time?
3) Lastly, does my application need to be accompanied with an AADHAR/UID number if I submit it before 1st of April?
Thanks heaps guys :)

[Tango Alpha November]

I tried a lot of people, including those sitting in the DGCA office, and I swear to god, I still cannot comprehend how the organization runs when nobody seems to have any idea about anything. Oh and the phones are either never connected or picked up, and if they are, they redirect you back to the first chap, who doesn't even know what his name is!!! Folks you gotta help me out here!

[RP-C000]

Central Vigilance Commission unearths Rs 190 crore flying club fraud - The Times of India (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/CVC-unearths-Rs-190-crore-flying-club-fraud/articleshow/12062643.cms)

NEW DELHI: A large number of flying schools across India are involved in an elaborate fraud, posing as no-profit no-loss operations while raking in crores.

An investigation by the Central Vigilance Commission has found that a majority of flying schools/clubs in India posed as registered societies, operating on no-profit no-loss basis, to avoid paying the government full fee for operations. Resultantly, the government has lost at least Rs 190 crore in revenue, according to the CVC probe.

[stalled_n_in2a_spin]

this is beautiful :D .. the flying clubs here cheat the government so openly :p and they think the skill test provided by them is gona be any genuine :uhoh: ??? :ugh:

the dgca should now atleast have some shame :mad: to blame the authenticity of other icao states licenses and paperwork!!

[flyboy7E7]

Another thing! They wont accept your application without the AADHAR UID CARD from 1st April and even if i apply the card now which takes 4 months to get i will be out of recency by the time i get! Oh god!!:ugh::ugh::ugh:

i wanna die! iam my recency right now and was planning to come to india & submit my application in April!!

[AnilDedha]

Guys, everything is planned. It is DGCA's plan to keep number of un-employed pilots less by not giving us indian license. So that they can show ICAO that most of Indian pilots are employed.
According to this rule, we have to fly in India for recency and as you guys know that it will take atleast 2 months to do recency in India and even quality of flying and condition of aircrafts are very bad. So it will take time.

I am doing my recency here, and told my CFI about this rule. And i will be done with my recency in 3 days. Thats good for me,

I hope you guys can also submit your paper work before April 1st 2012. If you need any help for recency or anything, feel free to pm me.

Regards,
Anil dedha.

[varunjay]

Guys I hold FAA CPL ME only. I do not have SE ad-on on FAA. Now i require SE endorsement only, on DGCA license. i have flown C 152/172 in the U.S. Am i eligible to get SE on DGCA CPL by doin GFT day/night, and all other recency req in India by flying SE here as per new rules? Also do i need to give any tech paper for SE? is FRTOL req to do recency in India? pls help...

[stiknruddr]

Regarding the single engine endorsement on DGCA CPL,
the flowchart and the circular do not mention any skill test or record of ground training required from the foriegn country. nor does it mention the tech paper requirement for that aircraft here.

So if I am doing the skill tests for SE here, I dont need to do any skill tests on the same aircraft abroad and no certificate of ground training required. also, no Tech specific paper required to be cleared here for the aircraft here. Is this correct?

Also, If i have done my flying on DA-40 abroad but do the skill tests on Cessna 172 here, will there be any prob in getting the latter endorsed on indian CPL? will i need to do any recent flying on cessna 172 abroad or just come here and do the skill tests on 172 here and thats it?

[equinox123]

ok i have a few friends who say the following:

irresepctive of the april 01st deadline
they would go to the US for their flight recency somewhere around the 16th of march as they are in the middle of the US visa process (I-20 etc) and they would come back around the 1st week of april......give just the skill test which according to them is just 1 hour day check and 1 hour night check on a single engine...........and they r good to go

on the other hand one guy says he will get all his skill tests done and signed for by a FAA examiner,as DGCA would accept it then


wonder who is right

Is anyone going to delhi for the open house?.....we can throw these questions at them instead......anybody here?????

[flyboy7E7]

i wish i can attend the open house but i am out of the country! somebody needs to go the open house and find out what they really want!

The new flowcharts also says the u should have cleared the papers in the last "30 months" but is'nt the papers supposed to be Valid for 5 years?
It also says u should'nt log PIC even if you have a PPL when u r flying dual but thats not the case with FAA!

Freaking dgca should be burnt to the ground!

[Ellips]

@Flyboy7e7, the papers are still valid for 5yr, check out the link mentioned on the first post, the conversion flow chart that you referred on the DGCA website is outdated.

[equinox123]

Hey Guys,
I called up the Bombay Flying Club and spoke to a guy who manages the paperwork and documents, and he clearly stated, that if you want to fly all your skill tests in India you need to have your FRTOL and your SPL...........
Thank you DGCA ..........I Love You.............Please bring on new rules like these ......we all would love you even more............PROUD to be an INDIAN :ugh:

[flyboy7E7]

How come this bring these rules with so little notification! They should atleast give a few months time to enforce! 1 month notice? really

Guy lets bombard them with phone calls & attend the open house and get this thing sorted out!

[cyrilroy21]

I found this on face book on the UPWA page

All this information is courtesy Varun
To all fellow aviators...This is the latest update with reg. to the "TRAINING AND LICESING DIRECTORATE" and new flowchart that appeared on DGCA website on 21/02/2012, the below mentioned info is from V.P. Singh, licensing dept of DGCA. You can now safely disregard all my previous posts with reg. to the same.

HERE GOES,

-ALL TESTS VIZ., GFT DAY/NIGHT CHK, IR CHK, 120 NM NIGHT, 250 NM DAY MUST BE MANDATORILY CARRIED OUT IN INDIA IN AT LEAST ONE TYPE OF A/C
(SE OR ME) FOR WHICH ENDORSEMENT ON LICENSE IS REQUESTED. FOR "ME ONLY" ENDORSEMENTS ON DGCA LICENSE CHKS MUST BE DONE IN INDIA. THIS RULE IS WITH EFFECT FROM 1ST APRIL 2012 AND IS APPLICABLE TO ALL CANDITATES WHO WANT TO CONVERT THEIR FOREIGN LICENSES IRRESPECTIVE OF RECENCY.

-DGCA WANTS YOU TO FULFILL ONLY THE ABOVE MENTIONED SKILL CHKS IN INDIA ON AT LEAT ONE A/C TYPE. SO IF U INTEND TO DO ME RECENCY ABROAD, IT IS STILL PERMITTED, PROVIDED YOU UNDERGO SKILL CHKS ON SE BCK IN INDIA. SO THE CHOICE OF SELECTING A/C TYPE FOR DOING SKILL CHKS IN INDIA IS UP TO THE CANDITATE.

- THE OTHER REQUIREMENTS LIKE 15 HRS PIC WITHIN 6 MONTHS, 5 HRS NIGHT PIC, SIGNAL RECEPTION TEST REPORT WITHIN 6 MONTHS, CAN BE STILL DONE ABROAD IF YOU INTEND TO.

DGCA has introduced this new rule to curb fake logging overseas, and to prevent ppl from faking recency - V.P. Singh.

He further added that students must stop going abroad to do get CPL license from foreign countries and instead do it here in India. To make things even miserable DGCA have intentions to make conversion candidates to give technical paper on requested a/c type he added...!

[cyrilroy21]

NEW DELHI: Three senior offcials from the DGCA - the country's aviation regulator- were suspended for issuing licences classifying 28 flying schools as charitable non-profit entities instead of fully commercial entities.

According to sources close to the ministry, Joint Director General A K Sharan and two other officials at the Directorate General of Civil Aviation (DGCA) have been suspended and an FIR has been lodged against the erring flying clubs.

The wrong classification has caused a loss of Rs 190 crore to the Airports Authority of India (AAI). These clubs were registered under the charitable category paid a nominal fee of just 10% of the original fee they owed the government.

This nominal charge is only permitted for those that are registered as educational societies and run on no-profit no-loss basis, and not as profit-making entities. "The subsidised rates were extended to 28 flying clubs without proper examination," the source said.

This was reported in The Times of India, a sister publication of The Economic Times, in its edition dated February 28, 2012. "After a MLA made a complaint about certain flying clubs getting facilities of Category I or charitable flying clubs not fulfilling the required criteria, the Central Vigilance Commission (CVC) made an enquiry and submitted a report to the aviation ministry last month," a highly placed source said.

Based on the recommendations of the CVC, civil aviation minister Ajit Singh took the requisite action against the people involved, the source added.

While, the CVC has called this a case of criminal conspiracy between the DGCA officials and the erring flying clubs, the AAI has been asked to recover its dues of Rs 190 crore by the end of this month.

Last year in October, DGCA's audit of the 40 flying schools of the country revealed that almost all of them were flouting safety norms and were issued notices to comply with rules or else face a shut down.

False logging of flying hours, violation of standard operating procedures and lack of infrastructure were the two main discrepancies that surfaced in this audit :hmm:


DGCA officials suspended for causing loss of Rs 190 cr - The Economic Times (http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/news-by-industry/transportation/airlines-/-aviation/dgca-officials-suspended-for-causing-loss-of-rs-190-cr/articleshow/12116574.cms)

[Johny Boy]

FB UPWA

DGCA has introduced this new rule to curb fake logging overseas, and to prevent ppl from faking recency - V.P. Singh.


This was reported in The Times of India, a sister publication of The Economic Times, in its edition dated February 28, 2012.

Last year in October, DGCA's audit of the 40 flying schools of the country revealed that almost all of them were flouting safety norms and were issued notices to comply with rules or else face a shut down.

False logging of flying hours, violation of standard operating procedures and lack of infrastructure were the two main discrepancies that surfaced in this audit:rolleyes::rolleyes:

DGCA and HUMOR at its best.
Bad times ahead:ouch::ugh::ugh:

[ramkiarchu]

hi, i really need help! i have my faa multi engine instrument cpl, i.e i have given my commercial checkride in PA-34-200! so now what all do i have to do in an indian flying club in order to convert my licence! do i need to all the 6-mth requirements in both ME and SE? or any one type of a/c is ok? also in the flow chart it is mentioned for multi endorsement, we need technical pass result along with ground certificate, from where do we get that? do i need to give technical specific paper in india?

[varunjay]

@cyrilroy21 - Cyril, I hold FAA CPL Multi engine license (only) +IR from U.S.A. I do not hold Single Engine commercial. Now i want to give checks in C 172 along with recency in India (as per new rule) and get initial DGCA CPL on C172 only. I do not want Multi engine on DGCA CPL as i have flown Beech Duchess in U.S.A, which is now not recognised in India.

My flying experience is as follows:

C 172 - 200 hrs (have done PPL, IR, hour building on C 172)
Beech Duchess (BE 76) - 25 hrs (holding CPL Multi engine license FAA, U.S.A)

Pls let me know if it is possible by flying C 172 in India, doing all the checks and recency in C 172 and get DGCA CPL+IR with C 172 rating only?

[anirudh_rao]

Hey everyone! Just stumbled upon this forum while trying to make sense of the new DGCA rules on Google :ugh: Things just keep getting better for Indian pilots! Sorry for the long post, but I'd appreciate any help.

I had a talk (if you can call it that) with A. K. Bharadwaj of the licensing dept. Apart from being extremely rude, what he said was it was better if I did all my recency and time building here in India, otherwise getting my license was doubtful! Talk about being extreme! Not one person is helpful and to top it off they treat you as though you were there to ask THEM money for YOUR training! So I was hoping someone here could help me out.

I take it that it would be safer to do my recency and time building (about 35 hours X-Country) here in India? Also, I have a FAA CPL ME license (ME on the Duchess). As cyril has explained in a very helpful and straigtforward manner, it would mean I would have to get all my skill tests done on the PA34, right? The remaining 5 hours IR time and night time can be done on the 172?

I had a word with the captain at Chimes Aviation and he confirmed that I would have to have a FRTOL and a SPL to fly in India AND I also have to give a technical paper for the Seneca. Kudos to DGCA to mess the whole situation up :D

[coolboy007]

Is it necessary to do recency in India from now on :ugh:, the circular is so badly drafted that am left wondering as to what does dgca really wants.

I have a CPL ME on PA 34 + IR (only) from USA and what i have planned is as follows :
1. Go to US (have to go as recency is due), get the single commercial on Cessna 152 or 172 so that am eligible on opting for one skill test in India if commercial is endorsed on two aircrafts - i think it would be economical as well as easy to find a cessna here compared to PA 34.

2. Do all my recency from USA only as even my recency is due now - i cant seem to understand why getting a license would be impossible if recency is done abroad as dgca officials are saying.

3. If not - then i need to give the multi engine skill test here in India as well as do my recency here - dont know what flight schools charge here so no clue as to what would be a viable option.
This way i can save the single commercial training cost + trip expense to USA.


What to do?

[anirudh_rao]

@coolboy

I might be wrong, but since you have your CPL ME rating on the PA34, its better you just get your skill tests done on it right here in India. Chimes charges around 30k/hour! But as you mentioned, you do save on travel and other expenses. Not to mention, its relatively 'safer' to get your recency done in India given the current state of affairs in DGCA

[ramkiarchu]

even i have the same query! even i have an faa multi commercial on a PA-34-200! so what i am assuming is that i need to do all the x-ctry checks and gft tests in a pa-34-200, so that i get a multi engine cpl, right? all these hours would add upto 10 hours PIC, so we are left with another 5 hours PIC time, which we can do in india as well! luckily i have both spl and frtol! but from where do we get technical pass result from? acc to me, if we have done training from abroad, why do we need to give technical specific exam?

[anirudh_rao]

@Ramkiarchu

As far as the technical examinations go, the post by cyril says that DGCA MIGHT even consider asking the pilots to give technical exams. Maybe one can ask this question during the open house (when is it, btw?)

Also if you could help me out, how exactly does one get his SPL and FRTOL in India?

[Kingmaker500]

chimes charges 40k per hour. Just found out

[cyrilroy21]

As of now I am quite sure you dont have to give the technical exam in India .

That requirement has been there even on the earlier flow chart so its nothing new

However if your flying authority does not have technical specific ( like FAA ) ask your flying school to do the test and make sure you get atleast 70/100 or more .
This test has to be done prior to any flying training .

@varunjay
Yes if you give the skill checks in India the DGCA should issue you a Commercial single on the C172 . I dont think you should face any problems with that .
However be warned that if you dont have ME IR rating on your DGCA license none of the Airbus operators ( including IndiGo ) can hire you . You also wont be allowed to go for an A320 type and get it endorsed on your DGCA license. This is the reason why none of the Airbus operators cant hire you .

[anirudh_rao]

@Cyril

The problem is I got my CPL ME done on a BE76. Never having flown a PA34 before, wouldnt I be required to give the Technical Specific in India before I start with the skill tests?

Also, what is Technical general for?

[coolboy007]

However if your flying authority does not have technical specific ( like FAA ) ask your flying school to do the test and make sure you get atleast 70/100 or more .
This test has to be done prior to any flying training

Bro, can you explain this in detail? I mean, i have done my flight training from USA and got my ME+IR issued from there but never got this test done, i was under the belief that technical is only for those doing training in India. Is this rule introduced now?
Now that am back in India and have no plans on going back to US as dgca is causing problems for those doing their recency abroad, how do i get this test report now :ugh:, i feel like banging my head somewhere....

@Anirudh_rao
I might just do the skill check and recency here only, at present its a safe option seeing how they are causing problems for those doing it from outside.

[Arrow0]

Even my position is exactly same as Coolboy007. Never got this test done, and never knew we had too.
Please help from where and what to do???

Thanks.

[varunjay]

@cyril - Thanks for u r response. Yes I will get ME later on, but first want license issued on any aircraft. Also Do i need to give specific for C 172 in India?

Again I gold FAA CPL ME(only) with no SE commercial. I have 200 hrs on 172 though.

[aditya104]

as a 14000 hr instructor here in NZ and seen some of the standards of these DGCA licence holders, Watch the accident rate only get worse in India, I believe the DGCA inspectors should be brought up to a honest standard

@Three Blader
That's true. The authorities don't have a 'safety first' vision. They have 'pocket first' type narrow vision.

Such rules are against the free trade and open skies policy India adopted. International aviation bodies should have a look at these rules(Licencing & Training) closely as it is in everybody's interest in the long term when more Indian planes take to the skies than ever before.

[teja.aluri]

To the best of my knowledge and a recent discussion with a CFI, All i understood was,

If you fly on a Multi engine (At least 10hr) in US and the same is registered in india (In a flight school), and flyable (A good example is PA 34-200 From CAA) all you need is SPL and FRTOL, and you don't need to clear any tech specific paper, I am still not clear with weather we need a tech specific or not so i shall double check, Probable reason maybe - you are only doing a recency on an aircraft that you are already endorsed by a foreign authority. but for cases like Be-76, you got to sure clear the tech specific paper on a aircraft that you choose to fly in India.

Coming to people with forgein ME endorsement and lookin for a cost saving DGCA CPL, i.e to get a SE CPL, you Sure got to clear a tech specific on SE airplane you choose (C-172 or C-152 or any other) and you shall be prepared to fly around 22-24 hr costing approx 2.5 laks (On C-172) which includes you DGCA recency requirements and as well as SE commercial checks from a CFI.

Personally aiming to have a ME CPL, i suggest getting a SE commercial with the way DGCA wanted and then once you have a SE commercial, all you need is an NOC from DGCA and fly 10 ME in any country of desire fulfilling the requirements as prescribed by DGCA for a ME add-on and submit the paper work to DGCA, no exams nothing to do so (Just like doing a type rating/add on).

Also i personally suggest that we shall make our decision considering the two possible scenarios and breaking the cost figure individually,
(i) flying cost involving 24hr SE flying in India + 10hr ME flying abroad + Personal charges ( travelling + living) + any other cost involved
(ii), Then the other way around i.e flying for 15hr in USA as recency + 3 hr of checks when we get back to India (@ approx 40,000/- an hr) + instructor FEE (@ 5000/- per check) + i am quite not convinced if i approach a Flight and ask him for checks will he do it in prompt 3hr of may need any excess hr(If so busting at 40,000/- hr in excess).

Personally the second option (Though valid in my view) seems risky, as any additional cost may screw up the entire budget since it is around 40,000/hr and you never know when would the respective A/C from the flying school ground's.

Btw either case the DGCA results for the Jan are out, so it shall be a good idea to start paper work for those interested in Tech specific exam.

I Request to please point out any mistakes that i have made here.

Cheerio

[aditya104]

Coming to people with forgein ME endorsement and lookin for a cost saving DGCA CPL, i.e to get a SE CPL, you Sure got to clear a tech specific on SE airplane you choose (C-172 or C-152 or any other) and you shall be prepared to fly around 22-24 hr costing approx 2.5 laks (On C-172) which includes you DGCA recency requirements and as well as SE commercial checks from a CFI.

Personally aiming to have a ME CPL, i suggest getting a SE commercial with the way DGCA wanted and then once you have a SE commercial, all you need is an NOC from DGCA and fly 10 ME in any country of desire fulfilling the requirements as prescribed by DGCA for a ME add-on and submit the paper work to DGCA, no exams nothing to do so (Just like doing a type rating/add on).

Teja

Your assessment is very correct and sensible. This way one will have less headaches and save some valuable moolah.

Btw, between 172 and 152 which one is preferable in terms of cost and availability. When is the technical exam for the same?

[anirudh_rao]

@teja

Case1:

Flying 25 hours 172 in india 2.5L
10 Hours ME in the US 1.5L
Travelling, Documentation, Staying and Misc 1L
Total = 5L


Case2:
Doing 15 Hours PIC in India on 172 1.5L
6 hours skill test on PA34 ME 3L
Total 4.5L


If you see I have included extra hours for ME skill test in Case2. So getting everything done in India turns out to be cheaper and safe. Or am I missing something?

Also, since you have a CPL from abroad, wouldnt flying the ME while doing your skill tests be counted as PIC too? If yes, then a couple of hours from the 15Hr PIC can be used for the ME skill test, further bringing down the cost of Case 2. Please correct me if I am wrong.

[anirudh_rao]

Also, heres my situation. Would someone please help me out?

Having got my ME IR on a BE76 duchess, do I have to do a technical specific for the PA34 and 10 hours (including skill tests) on the PA34 to get my ME CPL in India? I dont have a SE CPL.

[equinox123]

i have flown the C 152 all throughout my training and have all my hours as PIC on C152...........i have around 12 Hours on a C 172 and that too Dual and may be 3 Hours as PIC.........Well i want C172 endorsed on my DGCA Commercial Licence.Can i do Skill Test in India on a C172 and have it endorsed on my Indian CPL.............Please help.

[teja.aluri]

@equinox123

The information i guess you provided is insufficient for people to help,

Since you say you flown in C-152 through out you training, i Presume you have a SE FAA CPL on C-152, and getting endorsed on a C-172 shall not be a problem, since if you are doing your recency, which is about 15hr, and you do all of that in C-172, and give a check with a respective CFI the you shall be good to go.

On the other hand if you have a FAA ME CPL, and you shall prefer to Take a SE CPL then also you have fly for 20-24hr in India to complete recency and related flying so still you shall be good.

I think the whole idea behind DGCA endorsing you on a C-172 or any new type of airplane is that they wanted to make see that you have at least flown for 10hr on that specific aircraft.

@anirudh_rao
in case 2 don't forget that the 6hr flying for skill test on a PA 34-200 is only applicable if you have already flown for at least 10hr on that particular aircraft (Endorsed on your FAA/forgein licence), they(DGCA) actually made it clear on this http://dgca.nic.in/circular/FCL1_2012.pdf under Appendix 1 8th point.
And in case 2 the 15hr is also not possible, since when you approach a flight school, he shall first do some dual checks and also 4 hr of instrument will be dual, in order for you to be released a solo for PIC time building. so don't forget the cost involved for that as well.

[flylikeaBE76]

Does anyone here know positively if the April 1 deadline would apply to cases of re-submission in terms of skill tests to be done in India, and, if the recency requirements would have to be met on the day on re-submission?

[teja.aluri]

@aditya104
Apologies for replying lately, but i have misplaced a brochure which i found now
well purely your discretion of choice both C-152 and C-172 are equally now available and i shall say for 20 odd hr, even flight school or it's CFI usually prioritize you, for the fact that you know all of flying and you here for experience and not for training. the cost on C-152 is around Rs.2,15,000/- and Rs.2,50,000/- on C-172 and this cost is flying only. there are certain common cost namely, SPL and FRTOL issue charges (around Rs 10,000) and CFI check charges(Roughly Rs 5000 per check)
total flight time they say is 24hr (9hr dual and 15hr PIC) which includes

1. 15hr Solo (CPL checks - Day-Night-IR, 250/120 Nm Night X-C)
2. 5hr instrument dual time
3. IR issue check dual time
4. FEM checks before solo, Dual time

Coming to the tech specific paper, i am not quite sure since now a days it all online exam fuzz and i was only used to the conventional method, so i am still searching and finding out the date.

Btw for student appearing for tech specific paper, i highly suggest make some contacts with local flight schools and students in there, well before you actually submit application for the exam, which could help you make a better choice of which A/C to choose and they can share a few more points (Eg: C-172R instead of C-172, Though both are accepted by DGCA you may regret, though i couldn't justify here but you shall figure out with some students presently undergoing training at any Indian flight schools)

Cheerio

[anirudh_rao]

@teja

As usual, you continue to provide info that is extremely helpful. Thank you!

As the mentioned in the Appendix I, couldnt I combine the 6 hours of skill test in the requisite 10 hours for the PA34? Making the total time on multi 10 hours?

Yes, I see what you mean by extra time taken on the SE too for checkouts and whatnot. Your way of getting the SE CPL seems to make more sense now. Would you happen to know how hard it is to pass the SE CPL Indian check ride?

[teja.aluri]

@anirudh_rao I think you can, but check this post http://www.pprune.org/south-asia-far-east/478887-aircraft-select-skill-test.html#post7061267
you can know what to expect in those 10hr.

Coming to checks for SE CPL, they are comparatively very easy. should be no problem at all, and i have observed most CFI's are as well helpful.

[indgirl]

Hi, I have been following this post for a while now and am thoroughly confused about all the new requirements. I am looking to complete my recency flying soon as I have got the conversion papers and Indian medicals out of the way. I did my flying in Australia and now need to convert the license.
I hold a CASA CPL+a MECIR but I have done all my multi flying on the twin commanche.This was done over a year and a half ago and now the twin Commanche is not valid in india.I have to return to Australia in order to renew my instrument rating as well as complete my recency for conversion.I want to get my Indian Cpl with a multi endorsed on it. I am required to complete 10 hours of training on a twin for this.I was planning on completing this on the partinavia(PA 68).
If I Complete my 10 hrs day on the C-152+5hrs night(c-152)+ 10 hrs of training on the new multi(including all the tests)+all the skills test in India on a C152.Will I be eligible for conversion to an Indian license with single and multi endorsements according to the new rules? And can the signal reception test be done abroad still?
I meet all the other requirements of cross country hours plus total time…ect...
I would be very great full for any help in this regard. Thanks.

[Najmussaquib]

Hello everyone, I have my FAA CPL in ME (BE-76) and SE. I am planning to go to US and do only the skill test (10 hrs) on piper Seneca, come back and do the SE test in india. I do have Inidan RT and cleared conversion papers and will do something about Indian spl.
will I be good to go after these two test or do i need anything else?
How many hours, generally it will take to do skill test on c172 in India?
Am i missing something?
regards....

[blue_ingle]

for spl you need to take result of your conversion paper it will be issued in day or two charge is around `2000
according to some cfi i spoke with you can give checks if you have rtr but other says u need to have frtol to fly in India.
i went to dgca but no one gives a clear answer from them . on safe side apply for FRTOL.

it will take around 9-10 hours in c172 including all checks

GFT DAY 1HR
GFT NGT 1HR
250 NM 4 HRS
120 NM 2 HRS
IR CHECK 1 HR

you have to pay around 7000-8500 for aircraft rental and 5000/hr separately to check pilot. few flying clubs have extra 2000 for night flying.

[aviator86]

Hi, some one please answer my questions

1) If plan to get only Multi Engine Endorsement with IFR on my Indian CPL, can I skip all single and multi engine Flight tests in abroad and do the Flight test on multi engine in India?

or

2) If I plan to get both Single and Multi with IFR on my Indian CPL can I do the Multi Flight test in abroad and Single engine Flight test in India?
when both multi and single engine endorsement is required which one should be done in India?

Thank you

[blue_ingle]

according to rule u need to give skill test on one airplane either single or multi in india.

if you have commercial license only on multi engine ,you need to give test on multi engine.

if you got single and multi both , you can give test on single engine in india and carry out multi skill test abroad.

carrying out test in single engine is cheap and easily available .
multi is available in few flying school and just 1 or2 in number and it will cost you around 30k+ 5000/hr check pilot fees.

make sure u have all pic requirement listed in flow chart with ir time.

[cyrilroy21]

@blue_ingle

I have a different opinion about your statement above .

Assuming you are only endorsed with a multi commercial on your foreign license and you pass the single engine skill checks in India . I dont see any reason why the DGCA should not endorse the single engine aircraft on your DGCA license .
The skill checks are the equivalent of the FAA checkrides .

If you pass the single engine Indian checkride ( i.e skill checks ) then you should have it endorsed on your Indian license irrespective of whether you have it endorsed on the foreign license or not .

This is same reason why the DGCA asks for the IR check to be done in India when you dont have an IR endorsed on your foreign license .

What I am trying to say is even if you only have a multi commercial on your foreign license .
Do the Single Engine skill checks in India and get that endorsed on your DGCA license .
Go back abroad and finish of the multi and other recency requirements ( like 5 hours instrument etc )

[anirudh_rao]

Cyril,

I and a couple of other people spoke with Vashisht in DGCA and he said unless you have a SE CPL on your FAA license, theres no way you will get one here in India. This might be asking too much, but can you confirm this with someone if it really is possible to do it the way you say?

Also, anyone here, I don't have any hours on the Seneca (did my ME CPL on the Duchess). If I were to go abroad and get a checkout on the Seneca, would I be able to skip appearing for the technical examination here in India?

[blue_ingle]

@cyril
that might be possible.
but as mentioned by anriduh ,dgca will give what exactly is on your foreign license.
and with IR its a rating not a license.to carry out single commercial still you are private on foreign license ,need to give specific exam.

i spoke with few of CFI , they mentioned skill test can't be carried beforehand meeting other requirements of pic and ir flying. skill test are carried out at end, you first build up pic hours get proficient and carry out tests.


if you haven't flown any hours within last six months , you cant just carry out test.
you have to go through familiarization flights day , night before carrying out test.

carrying out skill test first and pic later abroad might not be accepted by dgca .

[blue_ingle]

@anriduh
"In case, conversion is sought in respect of license of the contracting state who do not conduct technical specific examination for each aircraft and foreign license is for all single and multi engine below 5700kgs, then on Indian CPL only one single and one multi engine aircraft rating (for which he has submitted skill test reports) will be granted. Further, extension of ratings would be done as per the provisions of schedule-II, Section-J."

above has been mentioned by dgca.
according to it you get ground school certificate and pass of technical specific exam from flying school. you should be good to go

[anirudh_rao]

Blue_Ingle

But the problem is FAA (or rather the schools in US) don't have a technical specific exam or ground schooling for one particular model of a plane. The instructor asks you to read up on the Senenca manual (POH), takes you up in the air, checks if you have all the basic maneuvers down and gives you a checkout on the logbook. Thats it. The question is will this be sufficient for me to not give my tech specific back here in India and directly go ahead and get my skill tests done.

I have the ground school certificate from the old school, but the new school where i'll go to get my seneca checkout, i am sure, won't be giving a ground school certificate, coz I haven't done any schooling with them.

[blue_ingle]

its just matter of printing . you can talk to school its a DGCA requirement .
you can download Seneca checkout test available on web.
ask your instructor to conduct exam for you and provide you with pass 70 and above.

you can also get it inside envelope sealed with school stamp and sign of CFI on it.

if your arent still convinced you can apply for specific exam . its easiest of exam according to my friends who are doing it from india.

i am also going to do multi this April from USA.
mine school is providing sealed in envelope .

[ramkiarchu]

hey guys, my faa cpl says AIRPLANE MULTIENGINE LAND, INSTRUMENT AIRPLANE PRIVATE PRIVELAGES, AIRPLANE SINGLE ENGINE LAND, AND LIMITATIONS: ENGLISH PROFICIENT. what does it mean? what all do i have to in the US and in indian flying club, which all checks do i have to do? i did my commercial checkride in pa-34-200? i definately want a multi commercial instrument rating, do i have to give specific paper also?

[aditya104]

Procedure for undergoing Endorsement Training on Single engine & Multi Engine Non - Jet aircrafts with All Up Weight not exceeding 5700 kg (http://dgca.nic.in/misc/draft%20cars/D7B-B18%20_Draft%20CAR-Endorsement%20Training-NonJet_.pdf).

Comments required by 26th April 2012 Please address comments to: Lalit Gupta, Deputy Director General, Office of the Director General of Civil Aviation, Opp. Safdarjung Airport, Aurobindo Marg, New Delhi – 110 003 Email: [email protected]

[Najmussaquib]

give a skill test on pa-34-200 in India, which includes...
at-least 10 hrs in last 5 years
pass the technical exam in India
in last six months...
skill test day - 1.5 hrs
skill test night - 1.5 hrs
if IR desired - 2 approaches.
Also in last six months you need to have...
15hrs PIC
5 hrs IF on actual a/c
5 hrs night SOLO with 10 T/O and land..
250 x-c
120 x-c
signal reception test....
you will need FRTOL and spl too
do all these and you are good to go....:D

[Najmussaquib]

sub - Procedure for undergoing Endorsement Training on Single engine & Multi Engine Non - Jet aircrafts with All Up Weight not exceeding 5700 kg.

Hey Adi, no matter how many time i read this, it says you can do both (SE & ME) skill test if desired, from an approved flight school in any ICAO contracting state:suspect:

Am i understanding correct, does that mean you can do the recency from any approved flight school from USA too?? :confused::confused::confused::ugh:

[ronak.akik2k]

Guys I have almost Understood what the new rule is, just have a few questions...

1. Is the new rule already applicable? Or is it still in discussion? I saw the date 26 April in before comments.

2. I have a FAA CPL and ME with IR. I am planning to go to Canada and do my recency. Is this the right time to go? Or should I wait for few more days to make sure the new rule doesn't have any more changes??

3. Lastly, if I do go to Canada and the new rule is in effect, is it ok if I do ME checks there and do all the SE flying here in India?? Or should I do all the recency hours, around 15, in SE and again give skill tests here in India? How many hours of SE should I do in Canada?

I am holding on for visa applications since a month!!! Please let me know when is the best time to go, so that I can get this over it before it gets any more worse!!!

Thanks.

[ramkiarchu]

u mean i have to give specific paper also? i do have spl and frtol and i am planning to get canadian rt and cpl! what i was thinking is that i will do the SE checks in usa and multi checks in india, so in that way i will have 20 hours pic, i donnt have to do seperate 15 hours pic right?

[Kingmaker500]

^^ if you are doing multi checks in india you dont have to do single test abroad!

[flyboy7E7]

Has anyone done this after the new rule came in to effect? Plz share your experience, this is very confusing & frustrating. Dgca loves screwing up things

[ronak.akik2k]

Guys I have almost Understood what the new rule is, just have a few questions...

1. Is the new rule already applicable? Or is it still in discussion? I saw the date 26 April in before comments.

2. I have a FAA CPL and ME with IR. I am planning to go to Canada and do my recency. Is this the right time to go? Or should I wait for few more days to make sure the new rule doesn't have any more changes??

3. Lastly, if I do go to Canada and the new rule is in effect, is it ok if I do ME checks there and do all the SE flying here in India?? Or should I do all the recency hours, around 15, in SE and again give skill tests here in India? How many hours of SE should I do in Canada?

I am holding on for visa applications since a month!!! Please let me know when is the best time to go, so that I can get this over it before it gets any more worse!!!

Thanks.

[MileHi480B]

OK, my friend got the job after months of submittals, etc. He'll be flying Caravans for a regional commuter airlines. They told him to "bone up" on the CARs for his tests.

While he is quite experienced, skilled and knowledgeable (by FAA standards), he is quite concerned that he can't find out any info on the exact things he'll be tested on.

This thread alluded to a "skills test". That does not concern him much. However, is there going to be a written and oral exam? If so, is there a good study guide?

When we go to the DGCA website the CARs are broken into so many downloads -- it seems impractical to try to capture them all. Are there particular sections he needs for regional air transport? (For example, here in the states there is Part 91, Part 135, etc. ... each one for the type of flying you'll be doing).

Or is there a place to download one complete set of regs pertinent to the job? Or a study guide?

Any help is much appreciated. He leaves in one week!

[anirudh_rao]

I spoke to a person at MP Flying Club and according to her if one does not have a SE CPL (I just have ME CPL IR on the Duchess) one cannot get a SPL in India. So she suggested that I should go back and get my SE CPL done from the US! Is this true?

[teja.aluri]

Dear all,

Long time i have been reading about people puzzled on how to get on with the written exam on tech specific and get a CPL on SE with those having a ME CPL,

Now that you remembered, you have take a FAA SE PPL, Why not convert that ppl into an DGCA PPL first, then based on the ppl issued by DGCA, get a DGCA CPL "addon", because AS per DGCA, tech specific exam is same for any category of licence, and that you have an A/C endorsed on your PPL, they may just used the same A/C for CPL. There are know cases where in people have taken ppl and in future applied for CPL on the same A/c base on the concept that he has a ppl and didn't wrote a tech specific again.

All we need to request DGCA is to issue a PPL and simultaneously issue CPL based on it & all in one go,

I am quite not sure if the CPL checks that you will Do with your CFI here in India would be valid for ppl, if not you shall be prepared for a 1 PPL check from your CFI. and an additional 5000/- DD to DGCA.


So in this way we never have to bother about writing a tech specif paper as per DGCA.

@ronak.akik2k the new rule that we are talking here is applicable from 1st April, i wouldn't recommend going to Canada, either do recency in US and give checks in India or do your entire recency in India. and for the 3rd point i am not sure for Canada, but if were planning for US then i think you could do your recency mixing both ME and SE and then come to India and give checks on either SE or ME. you should better check the recency requirements from DGCA website and see for your self with the type of A/C you were trained on and it's valid COA and what not...., but either case i would recommend figuring out your clarifications with DGCA(Mr. A. Vashisth).

[vinz2406]

hey i have got a FAA ME rating with SE add on and planning to do recency but if I do checks ME abroad and SE checks here in india, will I get DGCA ME CPL?? I went to DGCA office and they confused me more. Mr. Vashisht said that i can do me checks abroad and se checks in India. But, Bharadwaj Sir said dat you need to do the whole recency here in India. pls hellllppppppp..... :ugh:

[cyrilroy21]

@vinz2406

Simple question , what does the flow chart say you have to do ?

http://www.dgca.nic.in/circular/FCL1_2012.pdf

[cyrilroy21]

If you look at Appendix 1 its divided into two section

A) Applicants must obtain from foreign for submission along with application

This clearly states what all you have to do abroad

B) Applicants need to do in India before submission of application

This section clearly states what you have to do in India

Now read it once again and I think you will find out whether Vashisht or Bhardwaj was right .

[flyboy7E7]

Is it true that u cannot get the SPL with a foreign ME CPL like the above user said? This is getting more & more confusing!

[cyrilroy21]

@flyboy 7E7

I think what the user meant to say was that one cannot get SE CPL

How else do you think someone learns to fly at an Indian flight school ?

They get a Student Pilot License first which I believe is obtained by an oral exam . However you dont have to give the oral exam if you have cleared your DGCA written exams . You can apply for it directly .
Contact one of the flying clubs for more info

[anirudh_rao]

@cyrilroy

Do you mean the tech specific examination or the composite and regular papers? (for obtaining the SPL)?

[Ankit Kotecha]

is this circular already applicable ? did anybody here apply for conversion on or after 1st april ?

[stiknruddr]

^^ I would like to know the same

While we can all spend days discussing the new process/rules. things will become clear only after people go through it and post their experiences.

DGCA seems to be making a sincere effort to change in the last year or so but still a long way to go in terms of transparency.

[anirudh_rao]

Agreed! We need more people to post their experiences with the new rule. A recent visit to DGCA revealed that even Vashisht and S P Singh aren't clear about the rules. And Mr. Bharadwaj, as usual, is extremely non- cooperative.

I have just a ME CPL on the Duchess (sigh!!). The schools here say they won't be able to give me an SPL, and even if they do, then what? My CPL hours aren't counted. And I don't believe its possible to just do the SE Skill checks and get a SE CPL from India, coz I don't have a SE CPL on my FAA License. Is anyone else in the same situation? Maybe we could collectively think about a way to get this done ASAP. Any suggestions from the veterans?

[blue_ingle]

anriudh
as i said earlier goto usa get a se cpl multi is damn exp here now its 35 k around with service taxes and all . i can suggest u a school get u done with all in week

[flyboy7E7]

anirudh, can you please tell me the schools name?

So u are saying there is no way to give single skill tests in India without a single CPL?

I looked at the flow chart & it doesn't say anything like that. And many people in the past have got Single CPL with just their Multi-commercial.

May be its the flying schools trying to extract more money by making you fly multi tests

[anirudh_rao]

@flyboy

I don't remember exactly which ones, but MPFC for sure and a couple of others. The rest weren't clear as to how do I go about getting my license.

Here's the thing. There is no way I get a ME CPL rating right now coz my ME isn't valid in India. So the priority would be to get a SE CPL rating first. To all who are in the same situation, maybe if anyone stays near a flying club can go ask them if its possible to get a SPL based on our PPL (FAA) here in India, give the skill tests on a SE and get a SE CPL? That would be the best way. And make sure you talk to the Senior Flight Instructor there. They are impossible to get to over the phone.

[flyboy7E7]

Has anyone done the skill tests yet & submitted the license for coversion? I haven't come across any! is the rule being enforced yet?

[KARAN23]

Respected Aviators,
All skill tests GFT DAY/NIGHT/IR on both multi and single have to be done in India now n u gotta do 250by day and 120 by night in India.(Nothing would work not even attested copies from FAA,TCCA OR CASA)

Moreover they might ask you to appear for Technical Specific exam on PA-34.

Now the trick here is don't have to get solo released frm the flying school just ask the CFI to send some student who is more experienced for x-co's or else u'll have to shell out some more frm ur pocket.

I recently got my CPL issued couple of days back and they told me to write Technical Specific for PA-34 even though i had a rating on my foreign CPL basically what I understand is that they (DGCA) want FAA/TCCA/CASA to conduct the Tech SPC. exam and your mark sheet on FAA/TC/CASA Letterhead.
Karan Sinha

[KARAN23]

MileHi480B,
In case he is not an Indian National he could ask the other pilots working in the company.
(SKILL TESTS are something like Flight Tests done abroad, in India its called SKILL TEST except the fact that they are done in a completely different manner and does not include a written exam)
There is a book called BARE ACT which has all the rules and regulations regarding flying in India. Its a small blue coloured booklet. You can get that at ENGLISH BOOK STORE at CANAUGHT PLACE, NEW DELHI. Even if u get ur hands on an older version say 2009,2010 u still should be good for the exam.
Regards
Karan Sinha

[stiknruddr]

@Karan23

Sofar you are the only person who has posted experience about conversion under the new rules. thanks for your contribution.
Request more ppl to tell us how its being handled at DGCA.

It makes absolutley no sense that u have to do all skill test and tech specific exams in india.
The circular clearly said skill test for at least one type, so whats their problem if i do multi checks abroad and single in india. and what is this new BS about tech-spec exams.
most foriegn regulators give open rating on license and dont even conduct type exams. its the school's job to do the exam in-house and keep it on record for audit purposes.
I swear for every step forward, DGCA takes 2 steps back.

[flyboy7E7]

@Karan23 Did you do your recency in india? do u think its better to do it in india? i mean anyways u have to fly all the skill tests in india

[fly hi]

Hey guys im a new member
Want to share this with you...since I cleared all my papers Im now left with Recency
I was all confused about where to do my recency so today 11/6/2012 I went to DGCA
and met Mr Bhardwaj and Mr Vashisht and asked them about this new rule and how to go about, he is like
* You have to do your single and multi training IN INDIA
* Now since you going to fly the multi in India you have to give technical(specific)
paper also
* You cant do your recency abroad anymore
* You dont need to have a UID card at the time of document submission its not
required anymore.
I told them all this is not there on your dgca website, they are like yes we know but this is what its going to be.

This is what they told me

Some guys told me that if one does his multi abroad and single engine in India then he/she will only be granted single engine endorsement on his/her license not the multi
In some cases if you did your multi abroad you will be delayed to get your license

Well im not sure how far thats true

Now that its clear we have to do the recency in India, I think its better to get SE CPL for Indian License and we already have Multi Endorsement in our foreign license. so no big deal if we dont have it on Indian license too. Im sure Airlines when hiring wont make a big fuss out of it like dgca...
and we now need to find a good flying school in India where we can do our flying and finish it in time.

Do lemme know what you guys think about getting SE CPL only on the Indian License.

Cheers!

[equinox123]

I have already finished my recency flights in India and did all my Skill tests on a PA-34........i submitted my application for the issue last week..now as per the new rule they wont issue me the licence unless i clear my PA-34 paper correct?............but does that mean i can clear my paper in the next attempt and im good to go? or do i have to do the entire recency again.............

[vishwas_ddn]

@ equinox,
any flying or esp the skill test stands valid once u pass a technical specific, to be more clear no examiner will ever endorse ur logbook or even consider you for a skill test unti you pass your type tech, its india and its flamboyant rules that there is no standard procedure....its a pity we are forced to be associated with DGCA

[B73NG]

I HAD A DOUBT..WILL B THANKFUL IF U CAN HELP ME..i did my recency frm us ..came back n applied for my rtr(a) on 30th of march..just got it few days back. I was told by somebody that i dont need to do skill test in india(since i applied for rtr b4 1st april) n that i can show the receiving doc.of rtr application at the time of submission of docs. at dgca.is it so??

[stiknruddr]

i know this is a professional forum but i cant help it
Vashisht, Bhardwaj n co. are a bunch of F***ing A*****les

they keep changing the rules and have no idea what they want from applicants.

indian schools are nowhere near the standards and exposure of us or canada but still they insist on making life hell for those who train abroad rather than fixing the mess at home. senecca or diamond twin star are my options here but they are available in less than half dozen schools in india and even those are mostly in maintenance :ugh:

Their new flowchart from Feb end clearly said u need to do skill test for one type in india, not both. u need to have multi+IR from abroad as well. but ir not compulsory if u do ir check in india.
it did not mention tech specific anywhere. u needed to get certi of aircraft technical exam from ur school abroad thats all.
now they think that wasnt dificult enuff.

as i understand it from the latest posts,
now i have to do multi + ir abroad,
come home, write tech specific for both single and multi, then do skill tests + recency in india on both, besides conversion papers.

what abt if i have conversion papers (nav, met, regs seprate not composite+regs) already done, and come home after completing CPL with multi recency n ir checks from abroad and only do single checks in inda? do i still have to give single tech specific? will my multi checks be recognised if they are less than 6 months old?

this is turning into a joke. next they'll say cross countries abroad are not recognised.

[anirudh_rao]

Does anyone know if you don't have a SE CPL endorsed on your FAA license, can you just give SE skill tests here in India to get a SE CPL? Or do you have to do SE CPL from abroad first?

It is clear now that doing ME skill tests here is not an option due to the high rates and most aircrafts being in maintenance perpetually. The best way IMO would be to just get a SE CPL and then get the multi 10 hours from abroad and get it as an add on on the Indian SE CPL.

[Ankit Kotecha]

i met mr.vashisht on monday and he has confirmed me that skill tests are mandatory prior to conversion, and to do that we need an indian FRTOL and indian SPL first.

I have applied for COP at sanchar bhawan. that is going to take a minimum of 45 days.
then, to get FRTOL it is going to take another 30 days.

i have a single eng foreign cpl. now to convert it to single eng dgca cpl do we need to pass technical also????????

this one's the latest of my doubts.

[vinz2406]

guys i need some help in here, if anyone knows about the CAR rules where it states that when you submit your papers for cpl license, the rules applied to that submission will not the current, but the rules applied will be the one which were active at the time of submission.
because i think such rule exists, its just that i dont know exactly where in CAR it is, so if anyone can find it or know where it is then that will be great help for me:ok:

[fly hi]

Guys I did my initial training on C-172 and PA-44(Seminole) in USA got done in 2010
Seminole is not recognized in India I know..I had no option that time...Its been 2yrs since I have flown.
Im left with recency
now its either going to PA-34 OR DA-42 on the multi
But can ANYONE tell me how to go about with this...I need your advice
I need to get a total of 15 hours
now how much time should I fly on Multi and
how much time should I fly on SE

[thegrapevine]

have the guys at DGCA gone bonkers???? a frnd of mine submitted all his docs in feb after his recency from abroad. He got a letter today from the DGCA saying tht he has not signed the letter with which he had submitted with all the documents (the letter on which you list all the documents submitted) and on that letter by mistake he has put a date which is not possible, so now they have rejected his documents and he has to do his recency once again in India!!

Can someone please advise as what is to be done..

[aditya104]

guys i need some help in here, if anyone knows about the CAR rules where it states that when you submit your papers for cpl license, the rules applied to that submission will not the current, but the rules applied will be the one which were active at the time of submission.
because i think such rule exists, its just that i dont know exactly where in CAR it is, so if anyone can find it or know where it is then that will be great help for me

Rules applicable are always the ones current at the time of submission. Moreover, The date of application, shall be the date of receipt of application in the office of the Director-General.

For more information, see Schedule II, Sec-A, 8(e) (http://dgca.nic.in/schedules/sched2.pdf). Also, see FCL 2 of 2009 (http://dgca.nic.in/circular/fcl2_2009.pdf).

[razzy]

With all this talk of conversion, I'm curious to understand something -
If I finish my CPL from, say, the US, and have done a single engine CPL with IR, with a multi add-on, will the DGCA recognize that with no complications?
Of course, to convert that licence I would have to give skill checks on a single in India, but how would the multi rating be handled? Just a skill check on the same multi in India, or getting multi-training again in India to get it endorsed on the Indian CPL (after it is issued, or can the two be done together)?

[aditya104]

If I finish my CPL from, say, the US, and have done a single engine CPL with IR, with a multi add-on, will the DGCA recognize that with no complications?
That's fine, won't be a problem.

to convert that licence I would have to give skill checks on a single in India, but how would the multi rating be handled? Just a skill check on the same multi in India, or getting multi-training again in India to get it endorsed on the Indian CPL (after it is issued, or can the two be done together)?

Apply to DGCA with skill checks on SE done in India and the same checks done on ME in USA, both within last 6 months. You don't need to do multi flying in India. If all your paperwork is good, you will get your licence in 8 weeks. :ok:

[fly hi]

I think im gonaa do what aditya just said
SE in India and ME in US
thanks bud

[razzy]

Aditya, thanks for your response. What you're saying concurs with the circular that DGCA released, specifying skill checks for at least one a/c in India. However, if we look at posts on page 4 of this thread, a couple of people mention that Mr. Vashisht and Bhardwaj seem to now be saying that skill checks for all aircraft required to be endorsed on the licence need to be done in India. That's where all my confusion lies.

I think I'm going to call up the DGCA tomorrow and see what they say (if they pick up the phone!)

[indgirl]

Hi ,
I have been following this thread for a while and have decided to do all of my recency flying in India itself to be on the safe side.I did my initial flight training in australia.My doubt now is what letters i need to get from my australian school when i do submit my papers.I am applying for a SE CPL with IR in India.As far as i know the letters i will require are listed out in the DGCA conversion chart but for the cross country i will reuire a letter that id attested from there as well as one that is attested from the flying school in India to make up the 50 hrs of cross country required.I was wondering if DGCA would fing some problem in this.

Another doubt i have is the new classification of cross country as bieng beyong a 100 nm radius rather than just over 100nm when i was doing my training.Any Idea how strict they are about this 100nm radius rule.I have some of my cross country flights that are 2hrs 40 min long but that are only 195 nm and not beyond a 100nm radius...do you think they will accept these hours or will i have to do extra flights.?

[indgirl]

I had also submitted all the original documents required for the issue of FRTOL to dgca i got the FRTOL issued and sent to me but my original class 1 medical was not returned.I am not aware of how to get it back.I have sent them letters and called but that is of no use.Its been over 3 weeks since and ntn has happened.Any help on how to go about this.?I am waiting on this before i start my flying and it is the only thing holding me back currently..

[Ankit Kotecha]

i have been working on this new rule for a couple of months now.
@ind girl - i have heard that the dgca has become strict than ever before on this 100Nm radius part. better make sure all your pic-xc logs are of 100Nm legs(radius).
a friend told me that they check with maps and plotters the exact distance of each flight log of every candidate.
cant help you with the certificates part. no idea how it goes in australia.

@all. the hardest part was to get my RTR(P) issued from the ministry of Com (sanchar bhawan). took me about 2months of time and lot of pain.
Now I have submitted for FRTOL(R) (submitted yesterday), after the issuance of which I could fly the skill checks.
My foreign CPL is expiring, yet again, by August 20. So I barely have enough time to get the FRTOL issued, fly the checks, arrange the docs, and submit for conversion.

any idea how long it takes for the FRTOL to be issued?
how can one get this process expedited?
any school which has very cheap C172 rates, and from where a couple of guys have already flown the skill checks?
thanks in advance for your kind replies. !!

[Three.Green]

Hello. Can someone post the link for the DGCA FRTOL application. I have only been able to find FRTOL examination form CA 9F on DGCA website http://dgca.nic.in/forms/crew-d/frtol.PDF

So if anyone knows where the application for issue of FRTOL is then please reply

Thanks

[Ankit Kotecha]

there is no form required for frtol application. just make a simple request letter.

anybody here who has done or is doing the the CONVERSION CHECKS / SKILL TESTS for FOREIGN CPL CONVERSION in India?
please respond.


I have a small doubt with the number of checks we need to perform.
My flying is RECENT and I have all the tests - GFT day and night, IR check, 120NM check and 250NM check, all are current, i.e. has been done with in last six months.

Do I have to perform those checks all over again in India? one of my friends says that if all these checks are valid, I just need to fly a GFT day and a GFT night and the IR check in India. there is no need to fly the 120nm and 250nm check again.

Please advice.

[Three.Green]

@Ankit Kotecha, Yes, DGCA has now made it mandatory to complete the GFT day/night 120nm and 250nm in India. Unfortunately if you have done these tests abroad then you will have to re-do them in India. However, if you have done these tests in a multi engine abroad(within 6months of planned submission of papers) then you will only have to do single engine checks in India... vice versa.. Point is one of the checks has to be in India.

[aviator86]

@ Three.Green and others

1) What exactly are these General Flying Test Day/Night? are they similar to the the flight test/check ride we do abroad?
what are the maneuvers we need to demonstrate on these GFT?
is it whats mentioned on Form CA40 for single engine and
Form CA40B for a multi engine

2) Whats an IR check? again does it include all those items mentioned on Form PILOT PROFICIENCY CHECK/ IR CHECK


3) What are the requirements for an IR on Indian License?
just 2 approaches with instrument and x country hours or do they require an actual IR endorsement on our foreign license?

thank you

[Three.Green]

1) What exactly are these General Flying Test Day/Night? are they similar to the the flight test/check ride we do abroad?
what are the maneuvers we need to demonstrate on these GFT?
is it whats mentioned on Form CA40 for single engine and
Form CA40B for a multi engine

GFT are Form CA40 and CA40B for multi engine. I wouldnt be too worried about performing up to flight test standard.

2) Whats an IR check? again does it include all those items mentioned on Form PILOT PROFICIENCY CHECK/ IR CHECK

IR check is instrument check. Now if you already hold an instrument rating on your foreign license then you will NOT be required to undergo IR check in India.

3) What are the requirements for an IR on Indian License?
just 2 approaches with instrument and x country hours or do they require an actual IR endorsement on our foreign license?

To get IR you require 50hrs (100nm) x-country flights. 40hrs instrument, Max 20 on sim. Also, within 6 months 5hrs instrument on acft. IR Check should include atleast 2 approaches with one precision an one non precision. You do NOT require IR on foreign license, however then you will have to get IR check in India to issue IR rating on Indian License.

[anirudh_rao]

Reviving an old thread here. Hope someone can help me out or point me in the right direction.

Here's the situation. I have a ME IR CPL on the BE76 (No SE CPL). Say I just needed a ME CPL Indian, how many hours would I have to do on the multi (like a PA34) here in India?

[Three.Green]

You will be required to complete 5hrs on Seneca. Which will include your day/night/ IR 120nm and 250nm. It may take more than 5 hrs. Maybe... Pant Nagar has Seneca for I think 40,000/hr Goodluck!

[anirudh_rao]

@three_green

Thank you for the help! So it would be just 5 hours? Someone mentioned that I need to do all the 10 hours as mentioned in one of the CARs for a multi engine endorsement.

[Three.Green]

oh wait. u did it in duchess.. so yeah my bad.. u gotta do all the 10hrs in seneca.

[anirudh_rao]

So it would go something like this?

1. Get FRTOL and SPL
2. Pass Tech Spec. on the PA34
3. Do 10 hours (including skill tests and whatnot as mentioned in the CAR on the PA 34)
4. Do 15 hours on the C172/C152 (as part of the recency)
5. Submit all documents
6. Pray!!!

Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong

[stiknruddr]

@anirudh

the steps seem correct as you have mentioned them (as per the flowchart)

I am currently in Canada, Finishing my multi IFR.
I will count the last few hrs of Seneca flight time for recency and do the multi checks here itself.
plus will do some 172 flying here for the recency.

Now for the single engine Skill tests in India,
1. What is the process for getting FRTOL and SPL

2. Will it matter if i have flown 172N or 172P here and have to fly 172R or 172S in india. (will DGCA make an issue of the variant if i enter it all as 172 in my logbook and documents and not mention the variants anywhere.)

3. Somebody who has done their recency recntly please recomend a good school that has Cessna 172 available. (by good i mean they shud be able to get it done fast for me)

[anirudh_rao]

@stiknruddr

I am assuming you have your SE CPL from Canada too?

To get an FRTOL, you need to first get an RTR from Ministry of Communication here in Delhi. You will need to submit your CPL and RT from Canada and fill out a form and a DD. Time taken is 15-30 days. Once you get that, you will need to submit the RTR and another application along with another DD to DGCA to get a FRTOL. Time taken 1 week to forever!

SPL is a relatively simple process and the schools here say they can get it done within a few days.

I don't believe particular models of 172 should cause any trouble. It would be wise to ask around though.

[anirudh_rao]

Oh btw, I believe you will need to have passed all the necessary papers in order to apply for a SPL. Just something to keep in mind.

[stiknruddr]

well canada's system is diff from US
se cpl is the default to which u add multi night ifr and any other ratings

i have cleared met, nav n regs already, so spl will be direct for me?
will it be issued by the school or by dgca?

for frtol once i have rtr, will there be any exam?

[Three.Green]

This might help. You can actually do everything in the recency from abroad expect for the skill tests. A lot of people and this is all valid.. are doing the ME checks, night 5hrs and 15hrs pic abroad.. that way you just have to do the checks in India. Also you can get a in house seneca type exam from your school, and avoid taking the techinical exam in India. I know this cause I spoke with a licensing officer in DGCA

[stiknruddr]

thanks 3 green.i know abt all that n thats my plan.
still need spl and frtol as the skill checks need to be pic/us right?
or can i do them as dual n get it over with?

[Three.Green]

you will need FRTOL and SPL. I gave my application for FRTOL last week they say its gonna be another 3 weeks before I get it. SPL, your school will issue. Checks have to be PIC

[cyrilroy21]

You also have to do the 250nm VFR ( dont long instrument time )XC test by day and the 120nm VFR XC test by night on the PA-34 .

The skill tests 1 hour Day Check , 1 Hour Night Check , IR check and the above mentioned cross country tests will also count towards your 15 hours PIC requirement .
So there is no need to do another 15 hours PIC on a single engine aircraft .

Also please remember that any instrument time should be logged as DUAL and not PIC ( except for IR check ) . So you will have to fly this in addition to the 15 hours PIC requirement .

Also get a document saying you had undergone atleast 20 hours of ground training on the particular aircraft .

[aviator86]

Gday

----> PIC by Night - 5 Hrs (with atleast 10 take off & 10 landings) in last 6months.

Can those 10take offs & 10landings be spread out on several different flights on different dates or should they all be done on a single flight ( touch and gos )?

Can they include take offs & landings performed at departure and destination aerodrome on x country flights?

---->General flying test by day with three solo take off and landings each
General flying test Night with three solo take off and landings each

Can we count those flights towards our 15 hours of PIC?

----> Conversion Flow Chart, point 8 says "please produce at least 10 hrs (4 day + 3 night + 1hrday test + 1hr night test + 1hr IR test )of flight training on that multi engine aircraft"

Can those 3hours of night time include 120nm x country flight?

[Three.Green]

----> PIC by Night - 5 Hrs (with atleast 10 take off & 10 landings) in last 6months.

Can those 10take offs & 10landings be spread out on several different flights on different dates or should they all be done on a single flight ( touch and gos )?
They can be spread out over different dates.
Can they include take offs & landings performed at departure and destination aerodrome on x country flights?
Yes
---->General flying test by day with three solo take off and landings each
General flying test Night with three solo take off and landings each

Can we count those flights towards our 15 hours of PIC?
Yes
----> Conversion Flow Chart, point 8 says "please produce at least 10 hrs (4 day + 3 night + 1hrday test + 1hr night test + 1hr IR test )of flight training on that multi engine aircraft"

Can those 3hours of night time include 120nm x country flight?
Not Sure.. maybe not cause 120 has to be pic. and i'm guessing that the initial 10hrs on ME is dual....

[cyrilroy21]

The 3 hours of night time cannot include the 120nm XC test because its supposed to be logged as DUAL

What they mean by 4 hours Day and 3 hours Night is DUAL training .

So a total of 7 hours of DUAL training before undergoing 1 hour Day test and 1 Hours Night test followed by 1 Hour IR Check .

The 250nm and 120nm can only be done after undergoing the Day test and Night test .

Also remember that the person who taught you to fly cannot take the skill tests for you

[aviator86]

@ Three.Green & Cyrilroy21 thanks for the wonderful and a speedy reply.

I will be starting my recency flights next month, this is what i have planned.
My multi engine checks in abroad and single engine checks in India (single engine GFT day/night, 250nm & 120nm x countries in India) . Please let me know if this would work.

I am quite confused with the forms, I understand that I have to use From CA-40B for multi GFT, but however the forms says it should be signed by a DGCA approved examiner and countered signed by the aerodrome officer, how do I go about this? Should I just draft another form or ignore the part where it says DGCA examiner since i would be doing multi check in abroad.

Also should I be bothered about form CA-40A co-pilot test? if yes what should be done in terms of flight?

Thanks once again!

[cyrilroy21]

@aviator86

You will need a multi IR endorsed on your foreign license for the DGCA to endorse it on your Indian license . Otherwise you will have to give the IR skill test in India .

If its been more than one year since you flew make sure you undergo atleast 1 hour of familiarisation flying which will have to be logged as DUAL before undergoing the skill tests

For the CA 40 forms just type it into microsoft word and change it as your local examiner . No need for aerodrome officer .

Remember the person who undertakes the skill test should sign in your logbook as well as on all the skill test paperwork forms .
Some guys just took the Signature of the Chief Flight Instructor even though he did not conduct the skill test and then the DGCA would not recognise it .

As for the Co-Pilot part.....not needed as long as you are getting it endorsed as PIC .

[aadiprasan]

Hey,
To get just the FRTOL, do you need 10th and 12th mark sheet verification from the respective exam boards ? I understand you need it for issue of CPL.
Anyone who has applied and received just the FRTOL in the recent past, do you remember ?
I've got the other documents required for the FRTOL. This specific information is not on the website and the person who picked up the phone at DGCA was of no use.
Thanks.

[cyrilroy21]

Yes you do need the verification of 10th and 12th for the DGCA to issue you an FRTOL .

For those you who are facing issues in getting 10th and 12th verification sent to your home ( for eg some CBSE offices will only send it to the DGCA )

Write a written request for the same . Make copy and get a received stamp on it when you submit the written request at your respective regional office .

In the written request ask them to send to the below mentioned address.

To
Director Training & Licensing,
For File Number 9999/2012 (eg )
Directorate General of Civil Aviation, Technical Centre,
Opp. Safdarjang Airport,
Aurbindo Marg, New Delhi 110003

By mentioning your file number this should ensure that the verification letter is put into your file at the DGCA .
Many times the verifications are sent but once it reaches the DGCA most of the time it wont be there in your file .


Alternatively if your board does not give it to you , you can also ask the flight school in India where you will be doing your recency to request it for you .

[suppu]

hey where are the rules about recency are mentioned on dgca site..??

[kanz]

Hey just had a question for multi engine endorsement....do we only have to do the checks or entire 10 hours in India

[cyrilroy21]

You dont have to do recency in India . Only the skill tests .
Same for the multi only the checks and not the basic training .

The link is given on the first page of this thread . But i have posted it again for your convenience.

http://www.dgca.nic.in/circular/FCL1_2012.pdf

Now as far as rumours go........

The DGCA soon will make it mandatory for all those converting their licenses to give the technical specific exam in India especially for those candidates who come from countries where the test is not conducted ( eg FAA )

So to be on the safe side I would recommend everyone to clear the tech specific on the aircraft you want endorsed on your DGCA license . Otherwise you should apply for your license next month .

The rule is expected to come into force somewhere around Jan 2013.....dont be surprised if it comes earlier though.......

[flyhigh07]

Hi guys, i got this letter FROM DGCA ,I got faa medical,logbook and 10,12 certificates..i SUBMITTED MY DOCUMENTS FOR CONVERSION OF FAA CPL ALONG WITH ALL THE REQUIRED REPORTS ON MARCH 30/2012

Sir
reference is made to your letter no nil dated 30/3/12 on the conversion of foreign cpl-reg matter.

Your request has been examined and same has not been acceded to.

Your documents are returned herewith.you are required to comply requirements as stipulated in flight crew licencing circular no. 1/2012 and aircraft rules 1937 on next date of submission of documents for issue of cpl/ir


what does this mean..i havent got the faa cpl too`

[equinox123]

does it mention anything else on the observation letter?...i'm sure it would specify something more than what you have just mentioned.........

[flylikeaBE76]

Can someone answer this from personal experience or being absolutely certain:

Can the multi checks(day,night, IR) be done outside India and all the single checks done in India(day, night, IR, XC day and XCnight), if I am applying for both ratings. I have all ratings endorsed on the foreign license.
Or do I have to do any multi flying in India(which is what I am trying to avoid!)?

[equinox123]

Yes flylikeaBE76, you can do multi checks abraod on the aircraft that has a CoA in India (Pa 34 etc etc) and do all the other checks on the single engine like you mentioned.You can only do this only and only if you have a single and multi both on your foreign license. I'm telling you this by personal experience.....cheers

[flylikeaBE76]

Thanks for the info. I have all said ratings on my foreign license including 3 instructor ratings.
So, to do just the day, night, IR, XC day and night on a 172, I gather that you need an FRTOL(I have an Indian RTR) + SPL? Can I get this done in under a week at the MPFC?

[equinox123]

you will get the SPL at MPFC in a days time.But if you already have a valid SPL then great.......for the FRTOL you need to apply it with the DGCA first.......they will issue you a FRTOL based on your indian RTR.Application is on a plain piece of paper.For details please check this forum on FRTOL issuance

[stiknruddr]

does anyone know if we can do the multi skill checks abroad and only ir chek on multi in india. of corse i would be doing all single checks in india.
i have multi engine from canada but not ir endorsement.

[kanz]

Well you can do all your multi checks in Canada, no problem . According to the new rules you need to do one set of checks in India( Single or Multi). It is advisable to do multi abroad much cheaper.As far as IR check is concerned yes you need to do an IR check in Canada (atleast 45mins). As far your IR is concerned the multi flight in canada will do ....provide proper dgca authorised documents of the skill test it should be good enough, no need to do the same flight in India.A friend of mine had the same case , so I can confirm you on this

[DeanWinchester]

2. Further, the current ‘Guidelines for Conversion of Professional Pilot’s Licenses
issued in ICAO Contracting States into Indian Professional Pilot’s License (Commercial
Pilot’s License)’ allow for acceptance of skill test done abroad provided the test reports are
duly authenticated by a representative of the Regulatory Authority of the State where the
tests have been performed. It is seen that most State Authorities do not authenticate the
skill reports to meet the procedure laid down in the guidelines.

7. All applications received on or after 1st April 2012 shall be accompanied with skill test report carried out in India.

Well, So I guess with the FAA or CAA not authenticating your test reports! & DGCA making it mandatory for Skill tests to be conducted in India, You dont have much of an Option!

[kanz]

Like I have mentioned in my last post...skill test done abroad are accepted if done on proper DGCA authorised documents and attested by the country where you are doing your checks....for that you need to go to your regional FAA office and get the Chief officer sign ....a lot of people from abroad just get their Instructors or CFI sign that is not accepted now, if done that... then no need required to do skill checks in India and also get a letter from the regional office stating the checks done and the CO signature....dont give DGCA a reason to raise a objection

[ronak.akik2k]

Hi guys,

I have gone through the previous posts and I am a bit confused.
I have a FAA cpl with ME IR and I recently went to Canada and got a Canadian CPL and RTR. I receievd the RTR still waiting for the Canadian cpl to be issued.

So now to get an Indian RTR, if I am not getting it wrong, first I have to send my Canadian cpl to the wpc head office in Delhi to get an Indian RT?

Then have to send that to DGCA to get an FRTOL?

After that do the checks on SE as i already did the Me checks in canada and then submit for the Indian cpl right?

Please correct me if I am wrong.

Also what documents to send at the WPC office for RT? Canadian CPL and RTR is good? And then what to send for FRTOL? Indian RT and 10+2 verifications right?

It's just I am confused between Indian RT and FRTOL.

Thanks.

[Three.Green]

Below is link for RTR conversion form. Instructions are included in the document. Sorry about the big link but thats all I found. It took me 2 months to get RTR. Goodluck!.... Remember WPC issues RTR and DGCA issues FRTOL. To get FRTOL you need RTR. So yes, you are correct you need RTR then you can apply for FRTOL with DGCA. Be careful of your multi checks from Canada as they're only valid for 6 month! F#%K Me... I've been waiting for over a month to get FRTOL.

http://www.google.co.in/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&ved=0CCYQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wpc.dot.gov.in%2FDocFiles%2FNew%2520gui delines%2520for%2520conversion%2520of%2520Foreign%2520FRTOLs .doc&ei=0BZHUIKbNM3qrQfJ9oHoCA&usg=AFQjCNGrNTDxhH_1C3trqrG31-dJkTN_NA

[ronak.akik2k]

Thanks a ton!

Just to confirm, It says

6. (Ref Sl. 9 of the application)
() The applicant is required to submit the duly attested xerox copies of the following documents/papers: (I) Foreign FRTOL and Pilot/FE license (all the pages); (ii) Passport (only those pages

Does it mean I have to submit the CPL as well? Because I am still waiting to get the Canadian cpl issued and posted to me here in India?

And important thing about the draft? It says 50 Rs draft? I am not sure about the amount? I heard it some 5k or 20k right?

And this needs to be sent to WPC HQ Delhi right?

Thanks

[Three.Green]

I forgot what the fee was... but if it says 50 then thats what it is.
And I went to sanchar bhawan right next Patel chowk metro station in Delhi to submit this application. Now when you get there at the main gate there's this small room adjacent to it and you gotta go there and hopefully someone will help you out.

[ronak.akik2k]

When did you applied for your RT? Because I don't stay in Delhi, so will have to courier this at the office...that's why just wanna be sure about the fees before sending the application!

Thanks.

[anirudh_rao]

It is favoring PAO, DOT right? I have a copy of the DD. I can confirm it is 5000 to Sanchaar Bhavan and then 5000 to PAO, DGCA for FRTOL. At least thats what is was a few months ago.

You could call them up during the visiting hours. Guys over at Sanchaar Bhavan are helpful if you talk politely.

[ronak.akik2k]

Ok thanks.

I tried calling them, the guy at the information desk picks p and transfers me to a dep. but no one picks up!! :zzz:

Anyways I am still waiting for my Canadian CPL.

So has anyone Applied recently for a conversion?

The Mumbai office is also of no use. Went there and they have no idea what documents or anything...told me to contact the Delhi office!!

[kanz]

Hey Guys can anyone tell me when do we need an FSD approval from DGCA, In what context??

[aviator86]

Hey guys,

Can we do the Multi rating and IFR on aircrafts like Piper Seminole or Travel air and do the DGCA checks on a Piper Seneca for the issue Indian license with Multi IFR endorsement? Will DGCA accept it?

I am currently in canada and having a hard time in finding schools that have Seneca and offer decent training. My school had one until yesterday, they have found cracks in wing spars and are planning to sell it for scarp.

some one kindly please advise.

[cyrilroy21]

@aviator86

You will need atleast 7 hours of DUAL training on the PA-34 before undergoing the skill tests . The rest 3 hours can be done as skill tests . Its clearly mentioned in the flow chart .

[aviator86]

@ cyrilroy21

Thanks alot.

Do we need to do the 250nm x-country day and 120nm x-country night as well or is it just the General Flying Test by Day and Night we need to do on a Seneca.

[cyrilroy21]

If you are also applying for a Single Engine commercial then the 250nm and 120 can be done on the single only .

However if you are only applying for the multi then 250 and 120 should be done on the multi .

To be on the safe side its best to do it on the multi just in case the licensing officer changes his mind

[aviator86]

@cyrilroy21

I will be applying for a single engine commercial in Indian with a Multi and IFR endorsement on the license. Can I do away with out 250 and 120 on a Seneca.

[cyrilroy21]

Do you have both multi engine and single engine commercial license with instrument rating on your Canadian License ?

if you do then you can get away with it . Even candidates from IGRUA and NFTI dont do the 250 and 120 on the multi because they already do it on the Single .

Since you are applying for both you can do your multi skill test in Canada and the single engine skill test in India .

For the multi you have to log
4hours Dual by day
3 hours Dual by night ( within the 7 hours log some instrument hood time also with practice instrument approaches )
1 hour skill test by day with 3 t/o & ldg
1 hour skill test by night with 3 t/o & ldg
1 hour IR check with 2 approaches ( 1 hour under the hood . So total flight time will be 1.2 or more )

Before you do any of the training you need to undergo atleast 20 hours of ground school on the particular aircraft type( make sure you get a certificate that says specifically 20 hours ) . Then you have to undergo a specific exam on type conducted by the Civil Aviation Authority or by the flight school ( in case of countries like FAA or TC where open rating is given for aircraft below 5700kg )
You have to obtain 70% or more in the written exam . Ask the flight school to preserve the original answer sheet as the DGCA might want to take a look at it .

[stiknruddr]

@cyrilroy, others..

thanks all for your patient answers on this topic.

I am now pretty clear about
1. multi-IFR rating + multi skill tests abroad.
2. RTR, FRTOL, SPL process in India.
3. Skill tests in india on single and then submission for conversion.

MY question is regarding the documents to be submitted at the end?
Does anyone have the updated list of what they want?

Also, what is your advice if i have done my training from multiple schools?
Just get the certificates with details of Cross country, hood times etc from each school for the flying done with them and attach them all? any other way to do it? what does dgca want in such a situation?

[cyrilroy21]

@stiknruddr

I suggest you get the RTR FRTOL and SPL prior to any flying for recency . This is because it can be time consuming process and you can expect a few hiccups ( You are dealing with the Indian DGCA :} )

For FRTOL you will need your 10+2 verification

If one flight school is willing to certify all the paperwork then that would be the best case .
The skill tests and all the other paperwork for recency the flight school in India should take care of it .

[cyrilroy21]

Please diregard my previous message .

You need to get the respective paperwork from the respective flight schools especially the accident and incident free certificates . Only if you are unable to obtain it ( eg school shut down ) should you do it from another flight school or from Transport Canada if possible .

[Tango Alpha November]

hey, do any of you guys know which one is the correct e-mail ID for sending verifications from NZCAA - [email protected] or [email protected] :confused::confused:?? Thanx fellas

[cyrilroy21]

Its the second one same as the one given on the flow chart

[email protected]

[Tango Alpha November]

Thanx Cyril, I got in touch earlier with NZCAA and they told me they had been using the former ID for previous student requests. Was confused so just wanted to double check

[aviator86]

Hey Cyrilroy21,

Its mentioned in the flow chat that " allow for acceptance of skill test done abroad provided the test reports are duly authenticated by a representative of the Regulatory Authority of the State where the tests have been performed. " I am doing my training in Canada am assuming its going to be Transport Canada who should authenticate it along with my flight school CFI right ?.

How should it be authenticated, is there a particular format/form? do we have to get the reports of GFT by day and night stamped and signed by them or can they just print a letter saying everything is done as DGCA want us to?

Thank you

[cyrilroy21]

The TC examiner who takes the skill tests should sign the paperwork ( CA 40 Day / Night and IR Checks ) . These documents should also be stamped from the flight school

The examiner should also sign the logbook entries .

I am sure you are aware of the skill test in India rule.......

[aviator86]

Hey, thanks

Can't we do the CA40 day and night with an instructor or the school CFI?? Should it only be done by a TC examiner??

Yes am aware of the checks that needs to be done in India. I will do the multi checks in Canada and single engine checks in India.

[cyrilroy21]

While technically speaking you can do the checks with an Instructor or the Chief Flight Instructor as per what DGCA has written on its forms what they actually mean is that you have to do it with a TC examiner . In India the Chief Flight Instructors are also usually a DGCA qualified examiner .

I know people have done it with Instructors and got their DGCA CPL issued .

Also finish off the rest of your recency requirments in Canada itself on the single engine so that when you come back to India all you have to do is the skill tests .
Also dont log any instrument time ( under the hood ) as PIC ,
only DUAL ( 5 hours )

Do you have an Indian SPL and FRTOL ?

[aviator86]

Thanks alot.

I havent got an Indian SPL and FRTOL yet, but I have cleared the technical exam for the Seneca.

Yes, as you said I will finish all my recency in Canada ( 15hours PIC , 5hours Night PIC with 10 take off and landings, 5hours instrument on a single engine, GFT by day and night on a Seneca), I will do only the single engine checks in India ( GFT by day and night, 250nm day x-country and 120nm night x-county on a C-172 )

Will this work for me? I want both single and multi endorsement on my Indian CPL and i will be getting the same on my Canadian License.

[aviator86]

One more clarification, Can those 15hours of PIC include GFT by day and night as we would log them as solo?

And can those 15hours done on several different aircrafts like 152 and 172?

[cyrilroy21]

Yup your plan works perfect on paper including the part that you cleared the tech specific on the seneca :D
The DGCA is going to make it official soon......

You should have gotten the SPL and FRTOL first as this could take some time ( around 1 month usually )
You will need the 10+2 verification in order to apply for FRTOL

yes the 15 hours can include the flying tests but for some reason the flight schools in India refuse to entertain the same .
It does not matter on which aicraft the recency requirement are flown as long as the skill tests are done on aircraft registered in India and valid CoA etc

[huricane16]

Recently i received letter from dgca regarding licen conversion.They mention accordingly FCL 02/2012 i did not meet those requirment infact i didnt do any.Also i submited my application to DGCA after 1st of April.now the question is do i need to do skill test on both single n multi???If so than which skill should done on which aircraft??? because I would like both endrossment on my licen C-172 & PA-34.As i already flown in USA with all skill test report on C-172 & PA-34.Kindly suggest the school those hving valid C of A for C-172 & PA-34.I have to do re-submission. Thank you

[sachinshets]

Hey guys, feels stressed looking at the way DGCA is bringing up rules,,:ugh:

Im currently doing my CPL in Canada, Im doing all the requirement for the IR issue (thats 40hrs instrument time & 50hrs xcountry).. Then I wish to do multi for PA34.

As mentioned in the new rules, If i do 1 hour IR skill test here in Canada, and not have the IR rating on my canadian licence, then once i come back to india will I have to so skill test for Indian IR rating on single engine or on multi engine?

Is it like if I have all the requirements for multi IR rating, then I do all the tests in india on singlr engine and still get Multi IR rating on Indian license??

[flyboy7E7]

Hi guys,

I am about to do my skill test in India. What is the procedure to get Indian FRTOL, what are the documents i need to sumbit? is there any form?

Plz help me out guys, i am stuck with out any information regarding this

[equinox123]

@flyboy7E7........for FRTOL there is no application form.All you have to do is apply on a plain piece of paper and attach the following documents after making a covering letter for the same:

1. Original RTR (C) Permit number:-RTR(C)xxxxxxxx-COP along with 2 photocopies.
2. Original UK FRTOL with licence number RT/xxxxxx and vaidity of xxxxxx and 2 photocopies.
3. Original Verified Class 1 Medical Assessment (Valid until xxxx) along with 2 photocopies.
4. Original Verified Class 10th and 12th Marksheets and Certificates with 1 verified photocopy each.
5. Original verification certificate from xxxxxxx board along with 2 photocopies.
6. Photocopy of the FAA licence.
7. Photocopy of First and Last page of the logbook.
8. 2 photographs.
9. Demand Draft of Rs 5,000 issued by xxxx bank and demand draft number…………………………
Issued from ……………………………………………………………………………………branch.



go and drop it atthe DGCA office and then wait for a few days to have them issue you an FRTOL online first and then the hardcopy to your home address in 1 month...........hope this helps.....

[cyrilroy21]

@hurricane 16

Could you explain your situation a little bit more clearly .

Are you saying that you submitted after April 1 without doing the skill test in India ? Why would you do that when FCL 1 / 2012 was published in Feb 2012

You can do the skill tests at Chimes Aviation Academy . They have both C172 and PA 34 .

@sachinshets

If you dont have multi IR on your Canadian License then the DGCA wont issue you one unless you do a multi IR skill test in India .

[sachinshets]

thanks for the replyy...

n i ve done my PPL flight test and commercial flt test on 152.. n i ve done 300NM xcountry on a 172.. is it necessary for me to do 300NM on 152 again or 172 will work..

If it doesnt then i would ve to do in 152 again..

previously i heard from one guy, he did IFR requirement in canada and just multi rating.. he went to india n just did a skill test on singlr for IR and got Multi IR on his license..!!:rolleyes: confused..!!

[sachinshets]

guys 1 more question, i read a lot about the techical paper on the aircrafts..

i ve done all my checks in cessna 152.. n now going to do my multi on PA34... does it mean i ve ask my school to conduct a technical exam on both 152 and PA34??

n ya people here ask y do u need technical paper.. lol... they dont know its DGCA,..!!

[K.O.]

Hey Guys,

I wrote a letter to the DGCA a couple days ago to clarify some of the topics we have been discussing here. I find that although we all get replies to the questions we ask here, they aren't necessarily always the best or most informed answers. I have gone out on a limb to seek answers from the "horses mouth" as it were. This way, we will all be able to proceed without needing a second opinion or sifting though 5 separate PM's which have conflicting information. One answer, one question, no doubt. If you have any additional questions, I encourage you to write to the Training and Licensing or CEO Departments of the DGCA as I have done, and post both your questions and their replies on this thread. I will post their reply when I get it. Remember, there are always people who have the same questions as you and need answers just as badly. Persistance is the key to getting the DGCA to reply; an email every 3 days from me has worked well in the past. :ok: Here's the email I wrote them.

October 26th, 2012

To the Official in Charge at the Office of Training and Licensing,
DGCA, New Delhi



Dear Sir,

I would like to take this opportunity to ask a few questions to which I have been unable to find the answer to on either of the DGCA websites or the Internet. I hope you will be willing and able to help me resolve these matters.

1.) I would like to enquire whether it would be possible for your department to look through my logbook and inform me how many of my previous flying hours count toward the conversion of my foreign CPL to the Indian DGCA CPL. I would like to do this now rather than at the time of final submission of all my documents, so that there are no delays in the process later. I could very easily send you, via speed post, a copy of my logbook. I could send a copy of each page, or just the first and last pages, whichever you require. I also find it difficult to interpret correctly the “Guidelines for Conversion of Professional Pilot’s Licenses issued in ICAO contracting States into Indian Professional Pilot’s License (Commercial Pilots License)”, as they are quite different than those I have been trained on previously.


2.) In an attempt to clear up my confusion about the “Guidelines for Conversion of Professional Pilot’s Licenses issued in ICAO contracting States into Indian Professional Pilot’s License (Commercial Pilots License)” previously mentioned, I have copied parts of the PDF herein with my questions listed below each item number; please refer to part (A) and (B) of FCL1_2012.pdf on the DGCA website, "dgca.nic.in/circular/FCL1_2012.pdf".


Part (A) Questions

a) “Valid foreign Professional Pilot’s License + get verification of license and ratings endorsed on license released to DGCA on e-mail [email protected] from issuing State.”

Question: I have a valid foreign Professional Pilot’s License but could you please inform by what method I am to get verification released to the DGCA? The term “issuing State” is used often; does this refer to the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA)?

b) “Valid foreign Class-I Medical Assessment from State of issue”.


Question: I have a valid FAA Class 1 medical, but it was not issued with additional paperwork. What does “Assessment” mean? Does this imply blood tests, eye exam results, ENT results etc? Is verification required from the FAA? I could easily get a letter issued by my AME from Florida stating the date of the exam and the “Fit” result.

c) “Authenticated Log book of a period of at least preceding 5 years, which must include information regarding dates, aircraft type (single/Multi) and registration, crew status (PIC, dual etc.), total time, Sectors, Departure-arrival times, day & Nights, X-country flights, instrument time (actual, simulated in aircraft), simulator flying (separately logged). All the entries must be verified by the appropriate authority in the State of Issue of foreign license”.

Question: I have a logbook that has been authenticated on the last page by the Chief Pilot of my University; Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University. Is my Chief Pilot an “appropriate authority in the State of Issue of foreign license” according to the DGCA? Secondly, in this item, Part (A) Item 3, of the PDF document the words used in reference to logbook authentication is “a period of at least preceding 5 years”, whereas on the third page (flow chart) the words used in reference to flying requirements under the first sub-header are “Within 5 years”. My question is whether the DGCA considers legitimate the flying hours earned more than five years before the application date? Additionally, sectors and departure-arrival times are not recorded in my logbook, only the airports I flew to in sequence and the date of the flight.

d) “Statement of 20 Hrs of PIC Cross-country flights / 50 Hrs PIC cross-country flights if IR is also requested. (a flight to a point beyond a radius of one hundred nautical miles from the aerodrome of departure)”.

Question: The term “Statement of…” is used often as well. What does this mean? Is an entry made in my logbook sufficient, or would the DGCA require a letter from my flight school verifying all the flying hours in my logbook?

e) “For Multi endorsement on CPL at the time of issue: Please ensure you possess same multi on foreign license and the which is available with valid C of A in India. Please produce at least 10 hrs (4 day + 3 night + 1hr day test + 1hr night test + 1hr IR test) of flight training on that multi engine aircraft -and within 6 months General flying test by day and Night with three PIC take off and landings each, and for IR on multi, IR test report with two approaches on that aircraft for which multi -endorsement on license is requested”.

Question: The terms “test”, “flying test” and “skill test” are used in several cases. Is there any difference between them? Could you please define them for me?


Part (B) Questions

a) “Applicants need to do in India before submission of application:-

(iv) A cross-country flying test by night consisting of a flight of not less than one hundred twenty nautical miles returning to the place of departure without landing elsewhere and Instrument Rating test (if IR desired) from an approved Flying training institute in India. In case CPL is requested only on Multi engine aircraft then skill tests on the said type will be carried out in India”.

Question: I would like to clarify whether the 120NM cross country flight must have only one landing, at the airport of departure, or only two landings, one at the airport not less than 120NM away and one at the departure airport.

b) “Fees Rs. 5000 for each issue and Rs 5000 for each aircraft endorsements/ rating to be submitted in the form of Bank Draft Payable to PAO, DGCA, Ministry of Civil Aviation, New Delhi”.

Question: Could you please break down the fee structure for me? As far as I understand, it is Rs. 5000 for issue of Indian CPL, Rs. 5000 for issue of Single Engine rating, Rs. 5000 for issue of Instrument rating - Single Engine, Rs. 5000 for issue of Instrument rating- Multiengine, and Rs. 5000 for issue of Multi-Engine, which equals Rs. 25,000 in total. Is that correct?

3.) I have earned my CPL/Multi-Engine/IR from the USA, and I would like to do my recency (within 6 months) flying hours in a privately owned aircraft, licensed and registered in Canada. Would this be possible? If not, what endorsements for the aircraft do I need to obtain? Please note this aircraft has been used and insured by Transport Canada for flight training purposes. It is my understanding that I am able to do my multi engine flight checkride outside India, but that I must do my single engine checkride at a flight school in India; is this correct?

4.) My final question is what documentation will I be required to submit as proof of my PIC flying hours if I am a CFI flying solo or with a student pilot providing “dual” time to the student? Is my logbook sufficient?

I would like to thank you for your help in resolving these questions. Your team of dedicated individuals has been especially helpful to me thus far and I look forward to working effectively with your department. I also look forward to your informative email.

Thank you once again,

Yours Sincerely.

[flyboy7E7]

Hi, i am applying for SINGLE Engine CPL. I have my recency done.
What skill tests should be done in india?

According to the flow chart on dgca website, it says:

"General Flying Test report by day, night and Instrument Rating test (if IR desired) from an approved Flying training institute in India, if not carried out in a flying training institute approved by the regulatory authority of the ICAO Contracting State within the preceding six months of the date of application in DGCA"

it doesnt mention the cross country tests? does that mean we can finish off the cross country tests abroad?

[aviator86]

Hi , Can anyone let me know which form should be used for the Multi Engine General Flight Test by Day / Night with three take off and landings?

is it CA40 or CA40B
I am assuming its CA40B as the name of the form itself specifies " CA 40B(J) - PILOT IN COMMAND TEST ( DAY/ NIGHT) (for Jet aeroplanes above 1500Kgs) (http://dgca.nic.in/forms/crew-d/CA40B%28J%29.pdf) "
but I have come across many guys using CA40 for their multi engine GFT day / night, isnt CA40 used for single engine GFT?

[mikebravo05]

can anyone suggest me a good flying school in India where I can get my skill tests/recency done ? PA-34 and C-172 should both be available.

[cyrilroy21]

Chimes Aviation Academy has both aircraft available

[santabarbara]

Hello, I have a question here, Hope someone could help...!!!

I recently cleared all my exams(RT, Composite, Reg) and hold an FAA CPL with multi endorsed. I am planning to do recency and skill tests as i am free from my exams now. I am in the dilemma of whether to do my recency from India or do it abroad and then come back to India and do the skill tests in PA-34 in any of the flight schools?

What do you suggest?

[equinox123]

But keep in mind Chimes will rip you off till you bleed.

[aviator86]

@equinox123: can you elaborate please. I need to do my checks too, I will be able to proceed with some caution. Thanks

[Ellips]

A friend of mine recently did his checks from there totaling to 03:30min costing around 1.78lakhs, he had a rough experience with the instructor and claims that the logging and pricing isn't transparent but he finally got his work done.

They may use you and your flight time(In the name of checks) to ferry or pick up new students from Bhopal and may ask you to pay for entry pass or other miscellaneous.

Be sure to conform your flight schedule well before, their ME slots are usually booked in advance.

@K.O.

Nice questions, much awaited to see reply from officers. i would like to suggest RTI(no harm in filing) if your questions weren't answered promptly by the officials.

[K.O.]

I got a reply from one official at the DGCA. He gave me his number and told me to call him in the morning. I did so, he rushed through his answers to my questions but skipped the ones that were the most important. Have any of you thought of writing to Ajit Singh and letting him know whats going on in his DGCA? I was thinking of starting a petition. I was going to draw up a list of points we want to see changed at the DGCA and then file it depending how well our collective efforts were received by mr. singh. Best not to prod the hornets nest without due cause. I will have to find my hand scribbled notes during our phone conversation.

have you had much luck with the DGCA?

[mikebravo1901]

Guys can anyone of you let me know that in what case are we supposed to go through the written exam for PA-34 ? I mean if we have a multi engine endorsed on foreign CPL do we still need to appear in a PA-34 technical exam ?

[lonelypilot]

hello everyone
i would be really greatfull if smeone can clear this doubt which i hav in me from many days.

: initialy i did my training from usa and got ME/IR(a/c flew da-20 and da-42)

: after clearing indian conversion xams i did my recency from canada. i did convert my faa licence to canada by conversion xam and gave my rt too.here for my recency i flew c-152 which i newver flew earlier for 10hrs and for multi i flew PA-34 which i never flew this earlier too for 10hrs.took my check out on both c-152 and PA 34 and completed my recency in canada. Nw my question is wht will be the endorsement on my canadian license as i had only ME/IR from usa.

: i wat to give my skill test here in india on c-152.Nw here my question is will i be getting a MULTI ADD ON onmy indian licence if i submit te documents of PA-34 which i flew in canada during my recency(10hrs including day night ir check and 4hrs day 3hrs night)

i hope smone will clear this mess from my head plz

thnx in advance

[Three.Green]

If you want to do only single engine checks in India then first you:
1. must ensure your canadian CPL says SMEL (single engine multi engine land).
2. You have 6 months from the date of your 1st check flight (day/night/ir) on multi engine to submit your documents for conversion with DGCA.
3. You need RTR and FRTOL prior to check flights in India.

*for IR issue on ME you need to have group1 on your canada cpl. else you can do IR check in India.

[lonelypilot]

three.green ok,so if i get SMEL in my canadian cpl den i give IR check on single here in india,will IR be endorsed on my DGCA licence,if so i would be reaaly happy but

in order to give IR check in india do i need to hav IR already endorsed on my foreign licence(canadian).if yes will my IR from usa be automatically get converted to canadian cpl, by me giving the conversion xam,infact i havt given any IR written in canada? waiting for your reply three green thnx

[Three.Green]

If u do ur IR check in India then u will get IR on that plane. If want IR on multi then u have to do IR check on multi as well, unless u already hold foreign IR on same acft. No you don't need IR on foreign licence to do IR check in India.

[lonelypilot]

three green one last doubt,"wht will be endorsed on my canadian licence if i give an conversion xam frm faa while holing ME/IR frm usa" will it be just MEL/SEMEL?

[aviator86]

lonelypilot, you will get SMEL in your Canadian Aviation Booklet, to get an IR endorsement you'll have to do a Flight Test.

[lonelypilot]

hey dude thnx for d reply,i wish i could get d same endorsement as u said but i had a word wid tc govt they said i will be gettin only SEL if i had PAID xtra 30$ i would hav got d SEMEL endorsement

[aviator86]

Can we do part of the 15hours recency in India? I had done my 15hours in Canada but around 5hours (including some Instrument time) has lapsed due to RTR and FRTOL which took longer than I had thought. Would DGCA create an issue on this?

Thanks

[aviator86]

Is it too late to pay them those $30 now? Where did you apply for your license? which province?

[lonelypilot]

yup without any worries as long as u hav INDIAN RT and FRTOL u can do all ur checks and all ur recurrency flights in india,bdw dude hw much time did it take u to get ur RTR(P) and FRTOL coz am gonna apply for it soon JUST waiting for my CANADIAN CPL licence to come.

[lonelypilot]

pecific regoin abbotsford

[aviator86]

Thanks Bud, My RTR(P) took little more than 2months, still waiting for FRTOL tho. If you can go to Delhi make frequent visits to WPC you can get it sooner, phone calls doesn't really help much they still end up taking their sweet time.

[lonelypilot]

aviator86 thnx for the info cheers:ok:

[aviator86]

Dont wait for your Canadian CPL, apply for your RTR(P) if you have your Canadian RT and other relevant documents. You can mail them your canada cpl once you have it, WPC wont reject your application they will just list it as a shortfall.

PS - TC sends your booklet in a regular mail so it will take a while.

[lonelypilot]

aviator86 yeh but can u tell me wht difference would dat be by me submitting nw without CPL and later wid only CPL,isnt it going to be d same?

[aviator86]

You might save some time, they will scrutinize your other documents by the time you send your canadian CPL.

[lonelypilot]

aaahhhh man i wish i could get this info bit earlier:ugh:,am like almost to get my cpl licence and its been 2months since am waiting for it,so i guess i should wait for it and submit in one shot,

[lonelypilot]

Hello everyone can anybody help me here i hav a question abt do i hav to give specific paper in india,

my initial training training was dne in usa and for commercial i flew DA42

my recency was dne in canada i converted my usa licence to canada and flew C152 and PA34 and took chek out. these two ac i never flew earlier in usa.

here in india i want to do my skill test in c152.so my question is do i hav to give c152 specific paper and also for pa34 if i want to endorse it on my indian licence

[cyrilroy21]

A warning to those converting their licenses

On 17th Sept 2013 the DGCA had come out with a seemingly innocuous circular regarding the issue of Student Pilot Licenses

http://www.dgca.nic.in/circular/ftlc3_2013.pdf

Prior to giving skill test in India you need to get an SPL issued on the basis of which you are allowed to fly an aircraft in India in order to do the skill tests

An important point in this circular is that if you want to do skill test on an aircraft that is not endorsed on your foreign license then you need to first pass the DGCA tech specific exam for the same

For FAA license holders this is interpreted as saying if you did your Commercial Checkride on one particular aircraft ( the Beech Duchess for eg ) and now you want the PA 34 on the DGCA license then you need to first pass the PA 34 tech specific exam conducted by the DGCA

Same way if you only have a multi commercial on the foreign license but want single commercial on the DGCA one then you need to first pass the tech specific for the same

Please keep this mind before applying for or doing any skill test in India or abroad


P.S : There is a new school in India for those looking to do skill test on the PA 34 or C152
FAA :: (http://www.falconaviation.in/)

[LOC-D]

I always thought it went without saying that one needed to possess an SPL before being allowed to do their checks in India. The SPL can be issued by the Chief Instructor of the school, but you need to have your FRTOL and passed your DGCA theory papers before they can issue you one(for guys converting their licenses)

@lonelypilot

With regards to your scenario, you can avoid having to take the Technical Specific exam in India for the PA-34 if you have done a technical test in Canada. You just need to show them proof that you have taken a tech test and achieved a score greater than 70%. I don't know how exactly tech tests are done in Canada, but for eg in the US, all tech tests were done in school. It is not as big a deal over there as it is in India. All we had to do was do one of those tests, get it corrected by an instructor, put it in a sealed envelope and submit it to the DGCA. This way would be way more convenient than having to take the tech specific exam in India. I'm not sure how it would work for single engine rating. You may be able to do the same thing(i.e get the tech test done in Canada for the C152).

With regards to your recency requirements, your PA-34 requirements should be fine since you've done the 10 hours and split it in the way the DGCA requires you to. My only query is if you have only done your 6 month recency in the C152, that is the plane you want endorsed on your license. But have you done your 300 NM cross country(5 year requirement) on the DA-20? If I'm not mistaken, I think the 300NM, 250NM, 120Nm, day, night and IR checks have to be done on the same model of airplane. So if you have done your 300 XC on the DA-20 and the rest of your currency flights on the C152, then it might be an issue. Anybody may feel free to correct me, but this is what I understand of the conversion process.

[LOC-D]

Oh wow. I just saw the date on some of the earlier posts. Looks like I'm WAY late in sharing my opinion. Disregard if it doesn't apply to you guys anymore :)

[cyrilroy21]

All we had to do was do one of those tests, get it corrected by an instructor, put it in a sealed envelope and submit it to the DGCA. This way would be way more convenient than having to take the tech specific exam in India

@LOC-D

That was the whole point of my previous post

This method you mentioned is not acceptable to the DGCA anymore unless you had the FAA Commercial Checkride as well on the same aircraft

For eg : Someone who had the commercial multi checkride on the BE 76 and now wants the PA 34 on the DGCA license HAS TO PASS THE DGCA TECH SPECIFIC FIRST

A paper saying you passed the tech specific conducted by the school wont be accepted by the DGCA anymore

[akhil]

hey

I have a CPL/ME/IR on my foreign license but when i did my conversion in india I did my flight checks in India (G.F.T day/night, IR, 250/120 X cty, P.I.C) and got a SE/IR DGCA license...

now that I want to get the multi endorsed I can do my flying abroad right? Since I'll be applying fresh for just a multi endorsement I hope they dont create a problem and say that I need to get the G.F.T day/night and IR flights done in India???

@cyrilroy you'd said on a previous post its better to give the technical specific even if you have the ground training records from the foreign academy..it says next session for pilots is in april for pilots...when exactly can you start applying for this bcoz thats not mentioned anywhere

thanks :ok:

[cyrilroy21]

@akhil

You can only apply for the DGCA exam when they open the application window

The only way to know when the application window will open is to read the DGCA website every day and look for the public announcement

I hope you got the new photo and admit card form uploaded and accepted by the dgca in order to write future DGCA exams ( they sent emails to everyone a month back regarding this )

Please read this CAR thoroughly before going anywhere for a multi endorsement
http://dgca.nic.in/cars/D7B-B18.pdf

[akhil]

Yeah my photo and signature are uploaded on the udaan website..got that updated about a month back.

will keep a lookout on DGCA website

I've read these CARs but my question was since I already have an Indian SE/IR license with my check rides done in India(when I was doing my conversion) can I do my multi engine flying abroad and get it endorsed on my indian license (as I already have a ME rating on my foreign license)

thanks:ok:

[cyrilroy21]

@akhil

If you read the above mentioned CAR it clearly does not ask that the skill test be done in India

That being said I wouldnt be surprised if the DGCA did ask you to do so ( they like enforcing their own rules )

So i would suggest you choose multi thats easily available in India for skill test should the worst case scenario happen ( eg PA 34 or P68 ) .

The DA 42 is only available at NFTI and IGRUA . NFTI wont give it to students from outside and IGRUA charges 50,000 an hour and availability can be question
The new flight school in Hyderabad APFT will get a DA 42 but not sure when they will induct it

[garima]

i have ME IR endorsed on my FAA CPL, however i have done only 11hrs on the ME. i.e min no. of hrs in order to hold the ME CPL.

now my question is: are the day, night and IR checks on a ME DONE ONLY AFTER U PASS THE ME CPL CHECKRIDE or the hours before the checkride can also be considered as 'checks'?

plz help me clear this confusion.
thanks

[cyrilroy21]

The DGCA is not very clear about this . But if the hours before the checkride were training flights then obviously you cannot count them as checks

My suggestion would be to do the checks after the checkride as this would be a safer method

[garima]

alright! ill take that.

well, another thing is... i am told by a flight school in india that i am not required to sent the copy of my log book's 1st n last page along with other docs while applying for FRTOL.
whereas when i asked someone at sanchar bhavan.. i was told to submit the log book pages too.
so, is it just that dgca guys want us to do unnecessary extra paper work or this flight school doesnt know the real thing?

[cyrilroy21]

The FRTOL ( full ) is issued by the DGCA on the basis of the WPC RTR (A/P/C) license normally valid for 5 years

I dont think someone sitting in Sanchar Bhavan would be an expert on what the DGCA wants

If the flight school says no need then no need ( although i have a feeling they do need it because an FRTOL Full is normally only issued to someone who has flying experience )

There is something called an FRTOL R(estricted ) . This is issued by the dgca to students of the flight schools in India so that they can start flying before passing/obtaining an RT license
The FRTOLR is enough to do skill test in India and does not need the logbook copy
You will have to visit a local flight school and will need their help to obtain one

[LOC-D]

I was asked to submit a copy of my entire logbook along with an attested copy of my flying license when I applied for my FRTOL. Even though it's not in their list of required supporting docs(since a person who applies for an FRTOL need not have any prior flying experience), they still asked me to submit all of this, along with my marksheets, RTR(A) license. They informed me about having to submit a copy of my logbook and flying license via an objection letter. And that takes some time for them to process from the day your file reaches them. So to be on the safer side as well as to save some time, I'd suggest you be extra thorough and submit a copy of your logbook and flying license(CPL copy attested by a gazzetted officer).

[akhil]

@cyrilroy
I'm doing my flying from my academy only..taking the risk :sad:
Basically all I need is the G.F.T day/night and IR test report..

I wanted to ask if there is a particular form for these G.F.T and IR tests that will have to submitted or is it enough if my academy uses their own forms for these G.F.T's. And if these forms are there where exactly are they on the DGCA website. I found the single engine non jet G.F.T forms but nothing for multi engine non jet..

And also do I need to submit all my documents again like I did for my conversion like the TRTO from my academy and my medical certificates and license copies etc?? They haven't really specified what all documents exactly need to be submitted just for the ME rating conversion

[keyur]

Does anyone know if I can use my hours as an instructor for the 100 Hr PIC requirements for DGCA conversion of CPL

Thanks

[windcutter]

I have foreign PPL and I since we cannot get jobs outside India, I am thinking to join IGRUA or NFTI and get campus or contract of Air India/Indigo respectively. Both the institutes said I have to start from scratch and get my Indian PPL and then CPL and go on with the course from day 1 just like everyone else. From rules perspective it seems right but from money and experience perspective I am at the loosing end. I have few options/questions, I would like to know if they are feasible?-

1) Should I study on my own from one of the Indian flying clubs and save money and try through open market with self sponsored type rating?
2) If IGRUA/NFTI then can i at least maintain my own log book so that I can start with Indian PPL afresh but don't loose my hours from old PPL? Is it even possible/legit/legal to keep foreign license details and again get a new one afresh? Or conversion is compulsary?
3) Would I loose all those PPL hours completely if institutes disagree to maintain my own logbook?
4) It will surely create hassles while creating computer number for theory papers. Since it asks for flying exp hours and license details till today, I am confused what to put.
5) I recently got my Indian class 2 medical done. If you get into any of these institutes what would be the ideal period to get your class 1 done so as not to waste any months of class 1 validity while preparing for theory.