Business Aviation Asia (BAA)

[IDpilot]

Hello,

Is there someone on this board who flys for BAA, has interviewed or knows anything about this company? If you could post on this thread or PM me all or any information you know about the company I would appreciate it.

Thanks

IDpilot

[IDpilot]

This must be good news if nobody is talking bad about them!

[bizjetbus]

I have also been looking for information on the company and two of the agencies, Smile and WASINC, that are recruiting for BAA, but so far very little info on any of them....

[junkyardfreightdog]

I spoke with some guys at wasinc about BAA. They said it is a full time job where you live in china, not a rotation where you could airline home every X amount of weeks etc..Also they said it takes about 6 months to get your chinese validation after you are hired. The numbers for pay for a guy that isn't current and qualified in a specific type are on the low side in my opinion. But alas that is their justification, lower pay since they have to pay for training. I also believe it is a 3 year training agreement again if you don't show up with your own training.

[IDpilot]

Thanks for the info freightdog.

[FrankR]

Since pilots here will talk S&^% about getting a free ,,,, (use your imagination) and no one has a single bad thing to say, it should speak volumes about BAA.

My only caveat is that you should NOT use the agencies. They add nothing. Send me a new $20 and I'll give you the email for the BAA guy doing all the hiring.

oops, maybe they have one of those web-sites things... All the hiring is done out of Shenzhen.. Call and ask for Caleb.

One big plus is that at BAA, when you go out for dinner, you don't have to say "Hey, lets go have Chinese food" you just say "Hey, lets go have food"

[FrankR]

A few more comments about China,

Getting a China license is like ordering pork fried rice. Sometimes you get it in 5 minutes, sometimes half an hour.

Study the FAA ATP 121 written!!!

Finally, what is the going pay rate "for a guy that isn't current and qualified in a specific type"?

[Chalidriver]

May June, around 30 pilots left BAA.......

[Klimax]

30 pilots left BAA.

Where did they go to?

[Chalidriver]

Mostly to HK, several operators, also managed aircrafts are leaving now...

Be very careful where you step inn, specially as for the contract and tax issues...

[pjevs]

why is all Screening cancelled in china from CAAC??

[777Efoh]

Hi,

I've just been contacted for a possible job on the ACJ for BAA. Would appreciate any info on the company, base, roster and the usual T&Cs for a Captain position.

PM me if you wish.

Thanks!

[FrankR]

I hear that BAA has 3 ACJ's (?). The crews (Pilots and inflight) are easy to get along with.

Most ACJ guys are Chinese, as opposed to the biz jet crews, who tend to be mostly westerners. I hear it's old school, the Captains get waited on hand and foot by the FAs, and some crews smoke whilst in flight (I can't confirm this).

All the ACJ's are B reg, so you will have to get your B license.

Hope this helps

FR

[777Efoh]

Thanks FR. Any idea why the turnover is so high with BAA or is it due to expansion? Seems like they are the only one always putting up job ads.

Pampered by the FAs?! That part of old school I like! As for crew smoking inflight, as a Captain, surely you can tell the F/O to not do it?

I think one of the biggest problems with flying jobs in China are always going to be contractual issues and tax. Salary paid off-shore will alleviate some wrt tax.

[FrankR]

Not sure where the post about the number of pilots leaving got their info from. This summer, there were two managed aircraft from Hong Kong who left for HK management companies, a few guys who left for positions at management companies in HK, and a few guys who got postings in the states, but the number I hear is around 10 guys left in 3 months, not 30 in one month...

BAA gets far more aircraft than the rest of the HK guys put together. They and Deerjet are the big players. Your position is very secure at either, as long as you are not a huge jerk who openly rants on about things. On one hand, you will need to learn to do things the Chinese way, and on the other, you avoid the reactionary tantrums and drama you so often find being served up by the expat managers in Hong Kong.

Take your pick, and enjoy the flying. The pay is about the same!

- and it's the old school Chinese Captains who are first to whip out the cancer sticks, not the expats or the FO's or FA's.

FR

[Hoggin]

It would appear that there is some misinformation going on here. As I understand it, there is no smoking in BAA planes. 121 planes yes but not BAA.

Wasinc is terrible. There are several options available to someone looking to get on with BAA. Direct is certainly an option. Caleb, at BAA, is a rough one but thats about it. The rest of the company is good.

BAA is stable and probably will be for a long time. Whoever posted about A/C leaving for Hong Kong was right and its pretty insignificant. Deerjet and BAA are probably the biggest in China. Deerjet is a little ghetto so if you had the choice you would be better off going with BAA.

I would avoid WASINC at all costs.

[FrankR]

Hoggin is spot on here, at least according to everything I've heard and seen.

For all you gents looking to move to China, here are a few current observations seen by me and my mates who fly in the region in the last month:

All the companies have some quirky recruiter. They ask for the same thing over and over, and ignore you for a month, then email you to come to China tomorrow night to take the CAAC written. Just smile be nice, and it will work out. Recruitment is your first big test!!!

But you should ONLY deal direct, avoid ALL the middle men staffing companies at ALL costs, as I've seen guys who were in a tight spot get tossed directly under the bus by their procuring company.

BAA just fired one of their intermediary companies as the guy was withholding pay from pilots for several weeks each month.

Bill Z just screwed a 605 guy who was in a tight spot with Donghai jet concerning some issues that could have been worked out easily.

Another guy named "Universal something" just hired some guys to crew an airplane and is paying them about 60% of what the management company pays other pilots on type... (Yes, all management companies everywhere pay you less than they charge the client).

To review:
Recruitment company = Typical snake oil salesman shyster
AOC holder = Awkward, frustrating, much better once in the door.

Hope this helps,

FR

[Dash 7 Rider]

Send me a PM with your questions and I do my best to answer them.

[Springbok614]

I tried to apply to BAA a while ago through WASINC but was told that CAAC will not validate my license due to my passport and thus my country, South Africa, not having diplomatic relations with China! They have had diplomatic relations since 94. Confused.

[ivapilot]

I m going next week to HKG to interview BAA and to do the medical examination and writen test with CCAC

I will appreciate any information about it...

Thanks a lot!!

[FrankR]

Hey IVA,

I reread the thread, nothing has changed much.

High blood pressure, failing the written or the SIM ride seems to be the three reasons for most unsuccessful interviews.

What aircraft are you current on or interviewing for?

FR

[bourgeois101]

Hi IVA,

Just found out I will be going through the same process, ATP written, medical and sim ride.

Would appreciate your feedback/comments and suggestions upon your return.

In the meantime, could anyone tell me what reference material is best in order to prepare for the exam?

I am current on the Challenger 605

Many thanks...

[FrankR]

The CAAC written is 100 questions, 70-80 are straight out of the FAA 121 ATP test, with a strong preference for airbus performance questions (but a few guys get Boeing). Your remainder are written by CAAC hacks , and frankly, you will read these questions and say "what the ,,,, are they asking me here???"

Send me your email (anyone) and I'll email you the study guide, which is current as of this months test.

If you are interviewing for a 605 slot, the correct answer to the question "Where would you prefer to live" would be a resounding "I want to live in Beijing most of all" (seriously, if you say "HK would be nice", you go to the bottom of the list))

For the sim ride, please repeat after me: I LOVE raw data, I LOVE raw data...

FR

[Road Rash]

Rumor has it BAA is offering up better contracts in the next month or so.
Also, I agree with some of the others... Stay the F away from Wasinc.

[duxone]

Just curious.....whats wrong with wasinc?

[Road Rash]

I (and a few others) had a bad experience with them, Wasinc that is, in China, I'm sure some people are happy with them, but they left me high and dry on one of my contracts.
Just my experience.

[FrankR]

WASINC?? Typical total BS kind of guys. I remember an old Chinese expression that seems most applicable here, "They would lie to your face, but they can't look you in the eye".... If you've been in the biz jet biz for long, you've seen a G550 load of these guys.

Avoid ALL contractors, email BAA directly!!!!
Avoid ALL contractors, email BAA directly!!!!

The new BAA contracts are in place, the boys have had a hangover for a few weeks now (they drunk dial me like clockwork)... and 3 guys who left BAA to go to HK last year have been back begging. If you know anyone at the US regionals, check the Air Wisconsin boards, they have a lot of bandwidth on BAA. BAA 850 guys are the highest paid by hour or month of any in the world.

[Road Rash]

FrankR is correct.. Contact BAA directly
Welcome to BAA Ltd. (http://www.baasia.com)
Good luck

[FrankR]

well, the BAA web site is not their best foot forward,,,

Try this if you like, it worked a few months back

[email protected]

FR

[ivapilot]

I am type rated of CL850...

Do you have any information about how are the interviews?

Thanks !!

[duxone]

:uhoh:
a lot of ads about hiring falcon 900easy pilots....
i contact them and the answer is "sorry...do not need pilot at the moment!":sad:

[mattf2]

How did your interview go ?

I have one coming up now too !!!
Can you give me any information on gouges, study material, technical, HR questions. Also what does the sim profile incorporate ?


I hope your interview was successful

[zawillif]

Now you guys have me worried about WASINC. I have already applied for the contract through them. Is it something I should be worried about? Should I consider not interviewing because of them? This would be my first contract and first expat experience.

[PavoAfghanistan]

actually heard that they are one of the best of best in China, with all aspects

[Oceanic815Pilot]

Now you guys have me worried about WASINC. I have already applied for the contract through them. Is it something I should be worried about? Should I consider not interviewing because of them? This would be my first contract and first expat experience.

FWIW I spent four years under contract with them and I was happy. They aren't perfect but some of the guys there actually care in my opinion.
I would sign with them again given the right opportunity.

[Calas]

Hello. I travell next week to Hong kong for the interview with BAA. I go with WASINC. Is it so bad?
I am rated at CL850. Anybody knows how much time to start flying since they hire you?

[RjAgCR]

Hi everyone, just saw an add at wasinc that BAS was hiring Non Rated Captains but didn't see anything on the BAA site (where only rated positions are available) can anyone comment on this please?! :ok:

I am type rated on the E190 flying for an airline, and was also wondering what the executive flying experience is like...duty and flight times, days away from home ...etc, etc...!!

Thanks for your replies..!!

Rj

[CaptainProp]

Rj, you FAA licensed? Macau based outfit advertising for Lineage crew.

[Hoggin]

I think shanghai and shenzhen.

[SebastianDesoto]

I talked to a recruiter from BAA. Hiring into legacy right now. A 10 day interview next month!! Any input would be greatly appreciated ;)

[azpilot]

I too have been talking to a recruiter about interviewing in the very near future. Trying to get some information on pay/schedules for the Legacy. Can't find much...

[medriver2008]

I have been in Corporate Aviation for 30 years and worked for companies in the Middle East and Asia. So I have worked for heavy hitters privately and large management companies of different cultural background.

As a Training Captain, I can say that I address issues that some companies prefer to cut corners on the grounds of costs. BAA are totally opposite. The rule are there to be followed and all aircraft irrespective of registration are run to the Chinese regulations. Meaning, even part 91 aircraft have flight and duty time limitations.

During my contract with BAA I never witnessed a hassle with regulations, payment of expenses, staying in hotels less than excellent and I never experienced management with an competitive controlling attitude that is so common in other companies today.

BAA is run as an airline, meaning it doesn't have a personality that changes everyday like that of other companies.

The company communicates with you regarding trips and after the flight is complete, the emails and phone calls stop. Some guys call the office to see if everyone is still there. Some pilots fly 5 times a month whilst other 15 / 20.

BAA went through a period of growth a few years back where things were not working too well but they learnt from this period and acknowledge it. They now have around 70 aircraft and allot of foreign pilots. Simply because the business jet industry is booming and local pilots are 99% airline pilots. Chinese owners buy brand new aircraft, not used and so you get to fly awesome equipment.

I have seen pilots come in from flying commuters and 3 years later have been upgraded on 2 business jet types. BAA don't play games with your vacation, crew training or scheduled time off. In fact, every month you get a letter to say "thank you for all you efforts this month " and your salary is in your account. They pay all taxes so this to is addressed.

If you want a career in Business Jets and a company that will give you , the guy with NO RATING , a break, BAA is the place to advance your career. Be prepared to put in the time in China and you will get a rating on a Gulfstream or Bombardier product and in 5 years be rated as a Captain. Who else will do that for you.

To get the Chinese ATPL takes 2 weeks of study and the result is automatic the minute you select SUBMIT at the end of the test. The Chinese medical is the main issue. It takes 2 days and is not easy so many foreign pilots fail for a number of reasons. BP is 140 / 90 which is lower than the FAA.

After these are complete, you go to school on your aircraft and your sim check ride is under the Chinese regulations. You now have a Chinese ATPL. The complete process is 3 weeks plus initial or recurrent training.

Pilots are definitely not leaving in masses at this company. They are a professional company with more than 70 aircraft , 60 mechanics to support the aircraft and BAA are very particular who's aircraft they take on as a managed project.

Definitely do not talk to anyone except Caleb in BAA Shenzhen or Ricky Leung in BAA Hong Kong. Stay well away from all agencies as they have ripped off many foreigners in the past and some of the present pilots there can tell you how they went the wrong way and got burnt with an agency.

One thing BAA has which is not common, is they are loyal to the pilots who are loyal to them. Do your job, be professional and you will be rewarded with a rating on a long haul aircraft that no one else will give you.

The salaries are certainly market price and way above Deer Jet who is just not in the same league.

Given the opportunity, I would go back to BAA for the remainder of my career knowing that it is a low hassle, professionally run working environment. Something that can not be said for allot of companies that simply get caught up in there own self importance rather than working as a team.

[leondelfierro]

Has anyone went successfully trough their Non Rated F/O program?
I'll be short for a while on the Jet hours, but looking forward to give it a shot when able...

[azpilot]

It's great to finally hear some positive reviews about a company from guys that have been there. Are all the horror stories about the CAAC medical true or has it gotten better?

[FrankR]

... Still horror on the mainland. In fact, it's worse. You get a CT scan each year from what I hear... This is along with all the other stuff like the treadmill, blood, work etc.

FR

[azpilot]

CT scan every year? Sounds healthy. What's the stance on tattoos (all hidden under a T shirt). My torso looks like a NY subway.

[SteveG550]

Medriver, thanks for taking the time to write such a thorough review.

[Stall-turn-Go]

Hi All,

Following my 3rd redundancy in as many years in the European BizJet market, and as a result of a second period of 9months+ of unemployment with only sporadic freelance flying to keep my hand in and the bank barely balanced my lovely lady and I are considering a change of tack. I have applied to every airline and BizJet operator from London to Honolulu and back again with little success, so now my lady is going start wearing the trousers! She is a teacher and has worked successfully in the past in International schools around the world. So as opposed to sitting on our hands waiting for my next job to fall in our laps, hers will instead take the lead. As it is playing out it looks like that may take us to Shanghai in the summer of this year! So my question is, now that we have a likely location for our move, can anyone help me with a FO post in Shanghai/Asia in General? I have tried to contact Caleb, but am still awaiting a response. I have 5 years experience on Citation XL's totalling 1400hrs, over 1000hrs of that on jet. 3 years with Netjets Europe, 1 with London Exec Aviation and 1 with a smaller UK based operator.

Thanks very much in advance!

Rob

[Hoggin]

I think the 10 day interview is mostly about giving them wiggle room for the medical. I think you come over and do the first part of the medical and then work on the ATP written and a few other random tasks. Once your blood work comes back you will do the second half of the medical check and you should be done. They usually schedule it for 10 days in case you have some trouble with the medical and have to retest. Retesting is common and nothing to worry about. BAA does not have 70 aircraft. Its about 42 at the moment. Using an outside contractor is NOT the worst thing you could do. I work with one and am happy. WASINC is the worst, stay away but everyone should know that by now! For those that have been screwing around with Caleb and aren't getting anywhere you might consider working with a middle man. Caleb sucks and can be hard to work with. He literally has mental problems so using a contract company might be beneficial in that they know how to work with his metal issues and you don't risk doing or saying something stupid.

Oh, ATP shouldn't take you two weeks to study for if you have ever been taught how to study and have the discipline to sit down, not drink, and read the material. Its true though, there is an element of luck to it.

[RAFAT]

Rob - a colleague and I had an email exchange with Dave at WASINC last year about jobs out there with an Excel/XLS rating, the problem you have is that your licence firstly needs to be validated in China on your current type, then you're free to transfer to another type as required, but unfortunately there appears to be no Excel/XLS aircraft operated commercially (when he and I communicated) to enable the CAAC to validate your licence on this type, so you're scuppered. Seems hard to believe I know.

That's the reason job listings out there specify a rating on certain types when it may not necessarily be the type you're applying for or will eventually operate. I hope I've explained that well enough and of course things may have changed since last year in regard to Citations in the region.

With an Excel/XLS rating on your licence and job hunting in Europe, you're definitely right to let your other half take the lead!

[envoy]

Headsup - Possible phishing scam?

Hello all.

I received an unsolicited email from 'Northern America, Pilot Recruiting' Regional Manager of BAA, requesting further information, including copies of licence and passport. A surprising request for an unsolicited evaluation.

Alarm bells are going off in my head right now, as some of the email content simply doesn't add up. In particular, the return email address of the 'Regional Manager' is a personal address.

Anyone else encountered this?

[A-V-8]

Does BAA have any G280s. Are they getting any?

[Road Rash]

As far as I know BAA doesn't have any 280's on order, but that could change daily:)

[Wooky]

I red the tread and it seems its the only place you can get some information on BAA. I got an interview coming in 10 days in China for Lineage 1000 FO position, so I'm looking for any suggestions on resources to study. I've been studying Gleim's ATP prep for the CAAC so far. Anyone who has gone through the process recently, or has any suggestions? It would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Guys!

[papazulu]

Hi folks,

Anyone that give me the pulse of the situation when it comes to "junior" positions like those in the subject?

I got the picture from their website regarding requirements etc. If they go by the book, then I shall forget it for the next...1000 hrs on jet and hurry to move into one!

I have 1000 light TP EASA and FAA certificates (fATPL and FAA written pass), tho. Useless?
Also is it CAAC still a nightmare to pass? mild HBP but well controlled with light drug. Another show-stopper?

Thanks for your responses!

PZ

[Flying Mechanic]

They are very stringent on the medical, With HBP they will find it and send you home. You really need Jet time for a f/o job with BAA. Keep on clocking up the turbo prop time.

[ImperialxRat]

I just got one as well.. It didnt ask for an personal information, however it's from a gmail address. Guys name is Luke Lee. The email listed in the signature is a baa email address though. Sort of odd.

[Wooky]

Hey, I'm looking for some BAA pilots out there. I just went they the Screening process and got a job offer, but would like to get some current info from people who are currently on the property.

[Bjm747]

Hey Wooky,

I go out there for the CL850 Captain position on Oct. 8. Tell me how your experience was. I'm a little sketchy about this, so any info would be a great help.

Bryan.

[Propellerpilot]

Just a question concerning the chinese medical requirements regarding visual acuity i.e. is there a max. dioptre threshold ? Would I run into problems with -3.5 ?

[FrankR]

BAA is one of the largest co's in China... some room to move around once you get there... lots of turnover in the office, so expect things to fall through the cracks... plan to do it their way, whatever it is, it's 180 off from "your way".

Bad news: they will jam it to you as soon as necessary. Also, they won't budge on any issue... I hear that the last 4 guys to leave were NOT given their final pay check for one BS reason or another...

no one seems sure as to how it will turn out after the buy-out a few months ago .

The Gov't can't decide how to screw aircraft owners, but boy are they trying!

... Factor it all in.

FR

[ImperialxRat]

I went to the Dallas career fair and their North American Hiring Rep Luke Lee was there..

I didn't get much information, but what I did get is that they're getting more Legacies that will be based in Macao. Plan to go and get the CAAC done and placed on an aircraft inside their system first, then can transfer to Macao if you want.

There is no typical schedule as crews are assigned to an airplane or a couple airplanes that are managed for different clients... some pilots may fly 5 days a month and some may fly 15. You have 4 hard days off per month, with 28 vacation days a year and a ticket home.

3 year contract and the Legacy pay was $12,700 / month for captains (that includes housing)

[FrankR]

..... 4 hard days off a month?
< insert laugh track>

The Chinese catch on quickly, they must of searched the internet for a book called "how to screw over crews" from some 135 operator in FLA. I was with a BAA challenger guy in HK, and he got an email Saturday at 9PM saying that he was off all day Sunday...

FR

[ImperialxRat]

Yeah 4 days is really poor. Would be good to hear from someone actually flying at BAA.

[FrankR]

I hear that 8-10 BAA guys left this summer on their own accord for one reason or another, and another 6-10 are shaking the bushes to find new jobs, but haven't got a list... Not sure how many are on this PP thing.

FR

[Request Progressive]

Hi all, long-time lurker, first time poster here. I've been with BAA for a while, and people were hoping for some gouge from someone on property:

The four days off / month thing is indeed the policy at BAA. I caught the bit about someone receiving an email Saturday about their "day off" on Sunday. This is as close to "advance notice" as we sometimes get. Quite often, we'll be awarded a "day off" retroactively, when we see our weekly roster and find out that a day we sat reserve (and were not used) became a day off in the interest of contract compliance. In practice, we're pretty much on reserve all month, in our base city or on the road. The flip side of that is that most of us don't exactly do an exhausting schedule. Some planes do some very trying schedules, others are strictly ramp jewelry, most are somewhere in the middle.

Vacation time is a huge weak point - it's 28 days a year, subject to the whims of the flight department, schedulers, and aircraft owners. This issue has become especially combative in recent months. The current vacation regime has been in place since the beginning of this year, and they have made very few friends. For an operation that offers less time off than any of it's Chinese competitors in the private or airline worlds, this has led to some VERY frayed nerves.

For a region that is slowly coming around to the idea of commuting contracts, BAA seems to be going the other way entirely. A handful of pilots have been given month-on, month-off contracts under unique circumstances in the past. The unofficial word from the company is that they don't like the idea, and they appear to have no intention of offering them as a common option.

Luke said plan to come through and get your CAAC work done, and then "transfer to Macau if you want"? I find that claim HIGHLY suspect. Granting of requested base transfers is more or less unheard of at BAA without YEARS of kicking and screaming, as many of our Beijing crews can confirm. The crew that has recently been hired to fly a VP-tail plane out of Macau never got their CAAC licenses at all, and will be living in Shenzhen and taking the ferry boat to work. Macau basing has not been offered or even rumored. I can't exactly say Luke's lying, but the scenario you described from the job fair is without precedent at BAA. Flexibility is not the name of the game here. Pilots have, in the past, been awarded improved aircraft and/or new bases, but these arrangements are made at the convenience of the company, not the employee.

Outgoing pilots who have completed their contracts have run into issues ranging from failure to deliver final paychecks to refusal to release CAAC licenses. Just recently, several mainland-based pilots (including at least one who isn't even leaving) were delivered notice from the Hong Kong taxman, stating their intention to collect a massive chunk of money as BAA had not succeeded in arranging their exemption from HK taxes. That was very unwelcome news, as whatever other issues people have with BAA, the paychecks come on time and are fairly generous. The latest word is that the company is helping get the issue settled with some degree of cooperation, at least in these most recent cases.

Frank's numbers on pilots shuffling off for bigger and better things seem believable. Aside from those currently out the door, most people here seem to have the same attitude - that this isn't such a bad job to have, while you're looking for your next job. Pilots for years have pointed to the same issues that, if fixed, could make this a very good place to work. Some things, like the pay, have improved in my time here. Other things seem to be sliding the other way. The number of good people in the office still outweighs the bad in my opinion, but they're still struggling with the kinds of problems common with other Chinese operators. And the bad ones can be VERY nasty indeed.

I can certainly recommend distressed job seekers come take a look, as well as people who receive an offer on a good type rating and acceptable base IN WRITING before arriving on property. But many pilots here, including some of the old guard, are exploring their options. I'd suggest all prospective newcomers do the same.

[ups]

Thanks for all the good information about BAA. Just curious if you know the pay? Not asking what you make but trying to get an idea. I had been talking with Minsheng and they were offering 17,000 for the Legacy and just read BAA was 12,700 seems like a pretty big difference.

Minsheng also offered 10 days off in a row. Alot different from what BAA is offering now. Jack had previously told me 8 days at minimum and possibly all together.

Just trying to get a real idea of what is going on and how it will work once they merge. I am supposed to be going there next month for a interview so any info would be helpful !!

[Request Progressive]

As far as I know, the information you've got about Minsheng is accurate. All I can tell you for certain is that the payscale for BAA is correct, but the other information matches what I've heard about Minsheng. So yes, the Minsheng contract is miles ahead of BAA's in virtually every respect. The possibility of improvement at BAA should not be ruled out, but since the merger was announced, there has been not so much as a hint that BAA's contract will be brought up to par with Minsheng.

I heard through one of the recruiting agencies very recently that a pilot did the interview, medical and screening for Minsheng, and was then offered an inferior contract with BAA on the same aircraft. I didn't hear if he accepted the offer, but he was understandably confused. He had specifically chosen to screen for Minsheng instead of BAA for the aforementioned reasons.

One thing we do know is that the plan is to keep BAA and Minsheng operations seperate, and for the current management to remain in place. If a pilot were to come to BAA right now, they would be employed by BAA, on a BAA contract, and their CAAC license would be held by BAA. I could not recommend signing a BAA contract with the expectation that it will be amended to equal that of Minsheng.

[pilotfriend04]

Hi all -

I am hoping this thread can help me. I have a very good friend who has been hired on with Minsheng as a pilot. He has worked with the recruitment company Wasinc and was hired on in the summer of 2014. When he was initially hired on, he was told his visa paperwork would take a few weeks; however, it took 6 months. Is this normal?

Then, he was told and signed a contract with Minsheng that would allow him 8 days off per month, may be taken consecutively and then the 10 days of paid leave per year that UPS mentioned in his post in October. His plan was to save up his days off per month and return home to the states to see family and friends every couple of months. Do you know if this is do-able under the Minsheng contract?

Third, it appears Minsheng acquired BAA and there has now been some discussion that they will change the current hired pilots contracts to the BAA...which I think is a total of 28 days off per year plus 12 paid holidays? Can someone verify this? And can someone tell me if Minsheng or Wasinc or BAA can void the contract he signed and make him sign another contract?

If he decides that the new BAA contract is not something he is willing to agree to, does anyone have any insight on what would happen next? Would he just be fired? Unfortunately, my friend doesn't seem to ask a lot of questions to his recruiter or his boss and everyone has been left wondering if this is such a smart idea to get involved with.

Thank you all for helping!

[lc47]

Hi Guys,

Any recent BAA interviewees or current BAA pilots around the who might be able to give me some info on there current interview process and best way to study up for it and the written test?!

Any info would be greatly appreciated!

[Request Progressive]

Word from the current Minsheng guys I've heard is that they are being given a BAA-quality contract to sign; take it or leave it. I've been told they're keeping their pay, but stuck with all BAA vacation time and work rules, which were markedly worse than the Minsheng contract. The news has pissed a lot of people off - Minsheng guys who were given a rather vicious bait-and-switch, and BAA guys who were hanging on for an upgrade to the Minsheng contract after the merge. Resignation rates have increased accordingly.

The fact of the matter is, BAA lacks the kind of foresight, flexibility and basic intelligence to allow its pilots the kind of freedom that Minsheng pilots were promised. If two weeks at home every six months is not acceptable, this is not the place to be. It'll be interesting to see what the former Minsheng-contracted employees will do, as their new overlords have unilaterally voided their agreements. For those still interested in staying, my previous gripes about conditions at BAA still stand, trending worse as time goes on.

[ImperialxRat]

Thank you for giving us that info. I'm curious to hear if things continue to deteriorate or if they improve.

[hickslf]

Anyone know the procedure for getting your license and medical released after your contract expires? Deer Jet is not wanting to provide a letter of Release so I can get a job with another China company. Anyone had this problem and successfully remedied it?

[James K]

That is ridiculours. As far as I know, BAA will let you go if you come to BAA with the CAAC license. However, if you get the CAAC license at BAA, they probably charge a sum of money as license cost.

[FrankR]

... I don't think ANY Chinese company will let you go. Not BAA, not DJ, not any of them, unless you piss them off and they actually fire you.

But then they tell everyone they fired you.

It's sort of like working for a 135 operator in S. FLA or VNY...

FR

[kka]

Hi there

Anyone have any info about Contract, routes for 900 and 7x?

Thanks

[Redflagbizflyer]

Unless someone is desperate for a job or can't be hired anywhere else, it is highly recommended you steer away from this company. I departed about a year back but still keep in touch with a few who remain. They are too paranoid to talk it up, so I'm doing it for them. Things are really doing down hill lately and they have recently signed on with NetJets. In no time, the pilots who remain will all be demoted to FO and given line numbers...slightly sarcastic but don't put the idea of something negative coming out of this business venture for the crews. Within the company information is never dispersed about anything and the crews are "officially" notified via news tickers and left in total darkness. Recently they have been redoing contracts and imposing additional or amended clauses about separation terms with heavy penalties. Many pilots are grumbling and throwing fits, but BAA doesn't compromise unless it somehow will benefit them. Trying to plan a vacation???....yeah...not going to happen. Getting leave approved is like trying to get a law passed within the US Congress (sorry Yanks). Nothing gets done fast enough and they usually come back and say your request is too far in advance to approve, or simply deny it due to potential scheduling conflicts. This is probably due to their pilot shortage which is only gonna get worse. Historically they have adamantly refused rotation schedules, but recently they have brought on this "fantastic" idea called a 60/30, but at a significant pay cut, not to mention they require you to perform recurrent training on your time off along with your work visa paperwork. If you do the math, you'll see its not a true rotation, but just a way for them to squeeze more out of their pilots...and then maybe plan your time off. I am not aware if many have taken them up on this yet and I believe its only for certain aircraft types, but don't quote me on that. They are making these pilots sign new contracts with those amended clauses about early-termination penalties amongst several other items. Furthermore, if you ever have a problem while flying the line and need to call their dispatch, good luck unless you speak Chinese. This "Operations Center" is manned by 20 something year old kids who can barely speak English of any variety and don't know a bloody thing about aviation. Putting aside all these things, the pay is ok but the company is consistently dreaming up ways to make reductions. Living in China has its many obstacles besides the language and culture and if your thinking about bringing your family here, you might want to checkout something called an AQI Index. Doesn't matter what city your in, your health is gonna suffer and if your based in a heavily polluted city, then good luck with your family. You have been warned, but then again, if your absolutely desperate you might want to try it out. Its not all shabby, but for us experienced guys, the negatives definitely outweigh the positives and there are way better biz jet offers out there with commuting and better contract terms. Steer clear if at all possible!

[Hoggin]

What happened to you to make you create an account on PPRUNE solely to vent about BAA "on someone else's behalf"?

[FrankR]

Don't know much about the current climate at BAA, only to know that two guys who left a few years back have gone begging for their position, and got it back...

Try to get your complete info, good or bad. Sometimes (most times)? there are two sides to the story! I bet the feelings are mutual.

Apply everywhere, and take the best offered,

FR