Olympic call up's [Archive]

ShyTorque

1st Mar 2012, 19:04

But it's OK because the Typhoons will be there and the Government has asured us that they can handle all modern, current threats.

For a while I naively thought that non-military aircraft would actually be able to fly to the south during the Olympics, to carry on our lawful business.

I'm still waiting for the answer to my questions previously addressed to the powers that be. Will I, and other folk in my aviation specialisation, be allowed to continue to earn a living this summer, or not? I fear I already know the answer, it's not going to be a good one.

HTB

2nd Mar 2012, 08:30

Shy

The information you need is on the CAA website:

Home (http://olympics.airspacesafety.com/)

restrictions galore.

Mister B

ShyTorque

2nd Mar 2012, 15:42

HTB, Thanks, I'm very much aware of that website and have already registered to attend the meeting on 10 March. Unfortunately the info now being made available doesn't answer the most important practical question. I've been informed that the full answer isn't yet known. :suspect:

XR219

2nd Mar 2012, 21:58

"Sniper-carrying helicopters"? I thought flying alongside the enemy and hanging out of the aeroplane to take pot-shots at them went out of fashion around, what, 1915? :hmm:

Seldomfitforpurpose

2nd Mar 2012, 23:50

"Sniper-carrying helicopters"? I thought flying alongside the enemy and hanging out of the aeroplane to take pot-shots at them went out of fashion around, what, 1915? :hmm:

Nope, was still happening early 90's :ok:

Scuttled

3rd Mar 2012, 00:27

Nope again.

Most current.

Flap62

6th Mar 2012, 10:20

Now, I'm not the greatest fan of the Olympics but I do wish all the naysayers (who are undoubtably the kind of fat, wheezy boys who missed games by getting a note from Matron) would give it a rest.

The games are happening, the eyes of the world will be upon the UK and it's time to engage and try to create some feeling of positivity and energy.

There is nothing worse than the atmosphere hoovers who stand at the back of a crowd mummbling "this is terrible, we shouldn't be doing this, it'll all end in disaster etc"

airpolice

6th Mar 2012, 11:16

There is nothing worse than the atmosphere hoovers who stand at the back of a crowd mummbling "this is terrible, we shouldn't be doing this, it'll all end in disaster etc"

I'll tell you what's worse than that:

People standing around after a disaster and saying "I told them it was bad idea" and then nobody getting their "arse kicked" over it.

ShyTorque

6th Mar 2012, 11:20

I'm not in the prime of life but also not terribly fat, definitely not wheezy (I do still go out running in my 50s albeit not doing the full 26 miles these days).

OK, so as Flap62 would like, let's get some enthusiasm going:

The Olympics are happening. Mmm, nice.

There you are, that's my entire contribution on that front.

However, folk in my position are about to lose two months income (and some might possibly be out of a job afterwards, including me) because of the aviation regulations being put it place.

I take it, Flap62, you will be getting paid throughout though?
That's perfectly fine then, alright Jack! :rolleyes:

Willard Whyte

6th Mar 2012, 11:53

Will those unfortunate enough to be press-ganged into working at the Olympics have to go through the 'sensitivity quiz'.

'Patronising' sensitivity quiz for Olympic volunteers - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/9125460/Patronising-sensitivity-quiz-for-Olympic-volunteers.html)

Could be a good way of getting out of it with almost no effort.

Courtney Mil

6th Mar 2012, 12:53

Brilliant. Not rocket science to work out which answer they want. Unfortunately for your plan (which I like very much), all our serving personnel are so incredibly well versed in these issues due to repeated diversity training that my guess is that the requirement to take the test might be waived.:rolleyes:

A shame really, WW, 'cause I think your cunning plan might have ben a winner!

Wensleydale

7th Mar 2012, 07:55

my guess is that the requirement to take the test might be waived

My guess is that some bright spark will insist that all the armed forces take the test to allow for short notice tasking....

HTB

8th Mar 2012, 11:23

Oly Stooge

That sounds bizarre enough to be plausible. But WTF has manning car parks got to to with security? If this comes about, it is a disgraceful way of obtaining no-cost labour, while depriving short-term contract temporary staff of an earning opportunity.

Just to make all you volunteers feel better, here is part of an article today from the BBC news online:

Staff on London Underground (LU) have been offered a bonus pay of £850 each to work during this summer's Olympics.
Howard Collins, LU's chief operating officer, said: "We have put forward an offer which would see station, maintenance, service control staff and operational managers receive up to £850 for working flexibly during the 2012 London Games, subject to attendance, customer satisfaction scores and agreement from operational staff to work flexibly in order to deliver a successful games.
"In return we are asking staff to work longer hours at different times of the day, to be prepared to work extra hours and to be more flexible in how and where they carry our their role for us during these crucial weeks."

The Rail, Maritime and Transport (RMT) union said it would consider the offer made by LU, which would benefit 18,000 workers.

I expect they will be allowed to sleep in their own beds and go down the pub of an evening.

Ah, the warm fuzzy glow of knowing that you are doing your duty and serving your country. All for the greater good...

Mister B

RedhillPhil

8th Mar 2012, 11:31

Heard this great bit of news off my Flt Sgt this morning. I have been pinged to do car parking duties for the Olympics for a month and a half. Not too bad so far. Next came the good bit, because we here at the secret super air transport base in the prime ministers back yard are less than 90 miles from London we will be sleeping on a camp bed in base hangar and will then be transported to our respective car parks to keep a check on the great unwashed public lucky enough to get tickets to the greatest show on earth.:rolleyes: As well as having to sleep in a hangar we are not allowed to go home (even though I live in one of her majesties finest pre fabs in cartoontown a two minute drive from base hangar) or drink during the times we will be between shifts. They haven't fully published the exact details but from what I can glean they will be 4 on 3 off.
I am looking forward to all that overtime, just like the tube drivers and police will be earning.

Number one son is in the Met and has been told that he will be expected to work 12 hour shifts. Extra hours accrued will be paid in leave - which as he's said will then be impossible to take because of shortages. Tube drivers meanwhile will be coining it thanks to brother Crow and his sense of socialism.

Finningley Boy

8th Mar 2012, 12:59

I can sense a degree of seething resentment bubbling away beneath the surface over this. Come the end of August beginning of September, whatever, transpires, I can see some bad feeling being felt, if not by Service Personnel openly, by someone else on their behalf.

Especially so under current circumstances.

By the way Olympic Stooge; what OT have you actually been offered by Mr Hammond? Time and a half, Double, Triple or have you bee given no choice at all in the matter? :}

FB:)

Kitbag

8th Mar 2012, 18:59

And 4 days on, 3 days off doesn't sound too bad, hope they apply working time directive regs too.

Wensleydale

9th Mar 2012, 07:21

And 4 days on, 3 days off doesn't sound too bad, hope they apply working time directive regs too

So what to do with 3 days off? Living in a tent/hangar somewhere and with receipted actuals that probably won't actually cover the living costs...... I would also wager that you won't be allowed to travel away from the area. I would rather be working to pass the time - otherwise it may prove to be a very expensive and boring detachment.

Seldomfitforpurpose

9th Mar 2012, 07:53

Receipted actuals, if they are on base then it will be the mess for food and god help them if it's PAYD :}

4everAD

9th Mar 2012, 08:12

If in a "tent city" field conditions should/will be in place so it no doubt it will fall to 3MCS to feed them/provide packed lunches etc so not too bad there (I've had 1st hand experience recently and it was very good grub), also would/should be entitled to LSA if unable to return to home unit on days off due to service need (No different to being on Salsbury plain/exercise). So that should help cover the extra costs a little bit.

Note I used the word "Should" a lot, the reality might be something completely different to save money.

mymatetcm

9th Mar 2012, 08:26

Once again the Lame sick and lazy are excused you need a world wide deployment med cat to do the Olympics!
All catering provided by MCSU hence no pennies
3000 tented accom with upto 3 hours travelling time in between 12 hour shifts
Short stayers 6 on 1 day off
long stayers 5 on 1 off
will be interesting to observe how various battalions will intermingle once the beer flows. even with a proposed alcohol ban how can they possibly enforce it. sent home in disgrace?
Then again if you have paid for tickets you will not get the time off to attend the games and a refund is out of the window, one of my guys as lost about £300 kick a man whilst he is down, thats on top of missing out on his holiday abroad with family.
the list goes on

Wander00

9th Mar 2012, 08:31

Surprised the red-tops have not picked up on this. As one long retired it does seem that service personnel are being short changed to a huge degree over this one. Military Covenant - bah, humbug!

top_cover

9th Mar 2012, 09:11

And where are our lords and masters in all this? No doubt preparing to pick up their latest award for 'services to the Olympics'. It is an absoloute disgrace that they are allowing highly trained personnel to be used for 'car parking'. They know full well that the majority of servicemen under there command DO NOT want to become car park attendants and other cost saving roles during the Olympics. Strangely enough they would probably rather be with their families watching the Olympics or being as far away from this event as possible. Like has been said, military covenant, do be serious.
On the other hand, they are looking to loose more servicemen without having to pay redundancy, mmmm cunning plan.

airborne_artist

9th Mar 2012, 12:18

HMG has missed a trick. Why didn't they ask the spacies to help out? Just call it an annual camp and they'd be all over it. The parents would be thrilled too :E

Halton Brat

9th Mar 2012, 12:50

This whole Olympic running/jumping/splashing about event is a Poison Chalice that only the Borgias could have bettered. UK PLC needs this gross extravagance like a Moose needs a hat-rack.

When London was awarded the Games, I bet a number of other countries (who had thrown their hat in the ring, but were since afflicted by the same fiscal Plague as UK) breathed a silent 'phew'.

Is there any hard evidence to show that any Modern Olympics has ever rendered a profit to the host nation? I think not; this is nothing but grandstanding (pardon pun) by UK Gov, with our politicos savouring the kudos of international prestige (they hope).

I am reminded of the years when Ireland seemed to win the Eurotrash Song Contest every year, which then saddled them with hosting the next dreadful instalment of the biggest Blight to afflict the Irish people since the Potato Famine of 1845. In the end, they entered some deliberately dreadful refrain first released by Walid Jumblat & the Druze Militia. Job done, & the Euromob moved on to graze other pastures. We could learn from this, offering to host some future Games in, say, Bradford?

HB

Two's in

9th Mar 2012, 13:06

HB,

Is there any hard evidence to show that any Modern Olympics has ever rendered a profit to the host nation? I think not; this is nothing but grandstanding (pardon pun) by UK Gov, with our politicos savouring the kudos of international prestige (they hope).

Greece were the host in 2004 with the Athens games, I think it's fair to say that the current economy in that country is a magnificent indictment of the effect of hosting the modern games.

Finnpog

9th Mar 2012, 13:49

HM forces being used to cover for the incompetence & negligence (dare I say corruption) of LOCOG?

Well, they have been either moronically inept in underestimating the true cost of the games or alternatively they wilfully covered the truth up, up to the point which the country signed the contract to deliver the pageant so that now the taxpayers must pay for them.

Some people are getting very rich here. Others are being shafted.

Bah...Humbug:E

mymatetcm

15th Mar 2012, 12:38

Now we all have to submit a photo and our personal details so we can be security vetted by an NGO, to check we are fit for the job! No details of ROE, accomodation, chain of command etc.
Police not happy either they are only getting an extra £50 per day for the Olympic duties, told my mate it is better than nothing!!!
Daily we receive request for more and more manpower, we have no fit bodies left yet they still can't / Will not use any officers because the duties are still to demeaning for them to do.

Stuff

15th Mar 2012, 13:15

Daily we receive request for more and more manpower, we have no fit bodies left yet they still can't / Will not use any officers because the duties are still to demeaning for them to do.

Sorry but you are just plain wrong.

2x Flt Lts nominated for Olympic duties from my Sqn and many more from the rest of Stn.

Evanelpus

15th Mar 2012, 15:58

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/9125460/Patronising-sensitivity-quiz-for-Olympic-volunteers.html

I'm pretty neutral about things, I don't care which ancient, agnostic homo/dyke wins the medal, it's all the same to me.

Will I make a good volunteer?:ok:

Willard Whyte

11th Jul 2012, 18:17

MoD fury as soldiers forced to carry out menial security tasks for Olympic Games - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/olympics/news/9393126/MoD-fury-as-soldiers-forced-to-carry-out-menial-security-tasks-for-Olympic-Games.html)

Torque Tonight

11th Jul 2012, 19:57

I think we could see this coming since about 2005. What a clusterf---. As usual the forces are doing more with less, covering other people's arses. Let's just hope the firemen don't go out on strike at the same time.:ugh:

NutLoose

11th Jul 2012, 20:07

I tell you what, if I was forced to do this f*cking demeaning job of a glorified car park attendant and forced to sleep in base hangar I would have traffic jams back to Liverpool by 10am and no one and I mean no one would be going anywhere in a car.

All you need to do is screw the system up big time and tie it in knots and by the time they figure it out they would be screwed.

downsizer

11th Jul 2012, 20:14

Nobody is being made to sleep in Base Hangar.

Torque Tonight

11th Jul 2012, 20:18

I believe there may also be a shortage of itinerant Eastern European casual labourers for the Norfolk asparagus picking trade this season. Polish your wellies chaps, we're going in.

cornish-stormrider

11th Jul 2012, 20:21

only because a risk assessment said too risky....:E
Seriously - I think a cunning plan is in order - Crow's thieving unionites get a fortune and you'se all get shafted.....

So have a wee sitdown plan with a few of the lads - work out how BIG a chaos engine you can create and do so.........

What was the urban myth..... take out four traffic light control units in central london on key points and it all goes gridlock

WHBM

11th Jul 2012, 20:23

From the outside, looking in, I think that you lads and lasses have been completely shafted for this by the politicians.

What about those with leave with families booked over the school summer holidays - are you in anyway compensated for the costs if you have leave cancelled ?

Meanwhile for the army guys, are they suddenly looking to get the TA out of their regular workplaces for two months (which might include a couple of chaps at my place) just to overcome the issue that G4S have completely messed up their organisation due to complete incompetence with recruitment, and desperation to pay minimum wages while charging LOCOG maximum prices ?

500N

11th Jul 2012, 20:26

I notice no one has mentioned who is paying for all the MoD people.

Will G4S be billed at top rates or is the Gov't going to wear it just
so the Olympics looks good ?

NutLoose

11th Jul 2012, 20:31

Downsized post 45

Simply redirect traffic back on itself then time for tea and biccies.. Or security check cars, and stop every car you deem suspicious...... what can they do? Nothing you are doing your job, that should get you out of it free and clear. You could quite easily shut down car parks whilst it is being dealt with.

TheWizard

11th Jul 2012, 20:39

The trouble is, you start doing that and you end up hurting good old Joe Public and their families whose fault this isn't. Would you like it if you had a potentially once in a lifetime family outing planned with your kids and it was ruined by someone playing silly buggers?
Not defending the way this has been handled but I don't think that is the answer IMHO.

NutLoose

11th Jul 2012, 20:54

True, but it would be easily rectified by replacing him.

reynoldsno1

11th Jul 2012, 23:12

So, these military people are under the command and control of a private company that has already demonstrated its incompetence? This could be fun ... :uhoh:

airpolice

11th Jul 2012, 23:32

A friend of mine, retired cop, applied for a job as a supervisor with them for a four month gig (in Scotland) to cover the Olympic stuff. He thought it might make a wee change from his normal job, and with his decent police pension he can afford to be picky.

A few months ago, he told me he had applied and put me down as a ref.

About 4 weeks ago they called him and said he was in, subject to vetting.

Then they asked him to travel from Scotlandshire to London, at his own expense, stay three nights in London, at his own expense, and travel home after attending a two day training course.

He told them where to shove it.

Two weeks ago they asked him to attend a training course in Glasgow to be qualified as a night club bouncer.

He told them to shove it.

At the end of last week, G4S called me to check out his references and told me (confidentially) that he would be getting a letter this week offering him a job.

I'm expecting him to tell them to shove it.

So, if that's typical of how they are going about the recruitment process, no wonder they are having issues. I'm surprised that hey didn't ask the MOD for help sooner. If we are all in this together, how many civil servants are being sent to kip in TA halls or live on ships?

500N

11th Jul 2012, 23:36

So they have offered him a job and haven't even met the person ?

I agree, they have obviously cocked up the whole thing.

airpolice

11th Jul 2012, 23:38

They offered him two jobs before they did the vetting. How many others have slipped through that particular hole in the net?

500N

11th Jul 2012, 23:44

So you have people who could potentially be doing security checks not having been vetted ? Almost as bad as Heathrow Airport !!!

airpolice

11th Jul 2012, 23:48

At the very least they will have people who fail vetting, after having attended the training course.

Sounds ideal for a terrorist gathering intel.

Then trying to pass himself off as a member of the team, he meets folk who were on his course and they accept him on the basis that they were in training together.

WAFU!

wg13_dummy

12th Jul 2012, 06:21

So, these military people are under the command and control of a private company that has already demonstrated its incompetence? This could be fun ...

Beats being under the command and control of a 'public' company (MoD) that has continually demonstrated its incompetence. Same ****, different uniform.... :ok:

WHBM

12th Jul 2012, 06:31

A few months ago, he told me he had applied and put me down as a ref.

About 4 weeks ago they called him and said he was in, subject to vetting.

Then they asked him to travel from Scotlandshire to London, at his own expense, stay three nights in London, at his own expense, and travel home after attending a two day training course.

He told them where to shove it.

Two weeks ago they asked him to attend a training course in Glasgow to be qualified as a night club bouncer.

He told them to shove it.

At the end of last week, G4S called me to check out his references and told me (confidentially) that he would be getting a letter this week offering him a job.
When this story broke yesterday, it was covered at length on LBC Radio in London, a news and phone-in station. Listener after listener phoned in with accounts exactly along these lines, of worthwhile applicants messed about and ignored, checks out of sequence, you name it. The radio journalist was astounded at such a series of stories about the screwed way the whole process had been managed.

Al R

12th Jul 2012, 06:50

Its a joke. The business of business and government has become so top heavy; so festooned with over paid, self important people chucking out chaff to conceal their own duplicated and pointless jobs that nothing gets done. More effort is spent presenting the mission than executing the mission.

500N

12th Jul 2012, 07:01

"More effort is spent presenting the mission than executing the mission."

I like that one:ok:. Reminds me of

"Paralysis by analysis".

A A Gruntpuddock

12th Jul 2012, 07:04

"More effort is spent presenting the mission than executing the mission."

Yup - chaos at Heathrow caused by lack of immigration staff.

Answer - draft in more police to intimidate travellers into keeping quiet instead of opening more desks!

charliegolf

12th Jul 2012, 07:33

Troops should refuse in advance. If threatened, they should make it known that the thought of being done over is already making them feel ill. They will get away with it! 3000 courts martial of heroes with sick chits? Don't think so.

CG

And breathe ......

Winco

12th Jul 2012, 07:54

Typical, Typical, Typical.

To all the boys and girls who are going to get f**ked over, YET AGAIN, by the incompetance and sheer negligence of others, you have my total sympathy.

Why is it that when the chips are down in this country, we can, and very often DO rely completely on our Armed Forces? and yet, when the tables are turned slightly and the shoe is on the other foot, our Armed Forces are regarded as little more than 'Pond Life' by those at the top.

I am furious at this latest fiasco, and I only hope that at the end of it, all the bonuses that were going to G4S or whoever it was, will go into the pockets of those who are doing 'the extra bit' for this country yet again.

Just like london Transport bus drivers, underground and whoever else that are getting huge bonuses for simply doing their job, lets ensure that the boys and girls get rewarded with some quality time OFF, and a nice cash bonus, TAX FREE and free of all the usual trappings that the MOD, Whitehall and the other CSs go out of their way to claw back.

London 2012? bit of a joke frankly IMHO

xenolith

12th Jul 2012, 08:44

Well said Winco.:D:D

The Service Chiefs are said to be furious according to the news this morning. I wonder what that will translate into. :rolleyes:

salad-dodger

12th Jul 2012, 09:11

Spot on Winco.

Makes me so glad that I left five years ago, but I feel real sympathy for all the people still in who will get shafted to fix this cock up. I also have very little faith in the service and MoD chiefs doing anything to make this more palatable though.

S-D

Winco

12th Jul 2012, 09:26

Following on from my little rant above, I have heard from a friend this morning that the boys and girls on the Typhoon Sqn(s) covering the games at Northolt are NOT ONLY living in bloody tents on base but, just to really pi$$ them all off just a little bit more, are being confined to base during their 12hr 'OFF' period!

WTF is going on here?
Doesn't the RAF hierarchy trust these people any more or what?
Are they so irresponsible that they need to be confined to base? (and Northolt of all places to be confined too)

Like I said, when it suits them, the Armed Forces are little more than pond life to those at the top. Slightly surprised that Sir Stephen hasn't the punch, clout, nouse, whatever to stamp on this. he might be furious but I suspect he will role over and take it.

Good luck to all those in tents. I really can't believe it, but I can see the headlines when it gets out .............

FRONT LINE RAF SERVICEMEN AND WOMEN PROTECTING THE UK DURING LONDON 2012, LIVING IN TENTS IN THE CENTRE OF LONDON.

God, I hope it stops raining by then!

salad-dodger

12th Jul 2012, 10:29

Winco, I would dearly love to be proved wrong, but I really don't think the services hierarchy give a shiny ****e for the standard of accommodation, food and other living conditions that those drafted in to sort out this cock up will have to endure. They never have, and they never will. We shouldn't expect anything different.

S-D

airborne_artist

12th Jul 2012, 10:54

S-D - I can think of quite a few VSOs and SOs who would give a lot more than a give a shiny ****e, but sadly they are retired or now gracing the great OM in the sky.

Are you suggesting that today's crop of leaders don't have the cahunas to make a fuss, or do they just not care about the conditions faced by their troops?

oldmansquipper

12th Jul 2012, 10:56

Was this particular debacle predicted in the excellent BBC series Twenty Twelve I wonder? - I havent seen the full series yet:sad:

oldmansquipper

12th Jul 2012, 11:00

Hopefully - this info will be picked up by the press PDQ....

Whistle-blowing anyone?

:ok:

PTR 175

12th Jul 2012, 11:03

Service chiefs are furious. Well, I hope I am wrong about this, but I suspect that this will translate to Bu99er all being done by them.

Most of them do not want to rock the boat. They will, of course, write a book about all the injustice and misuse of the troops as soon as they leave the service but do nothing about it when they have the chance.

Service Chiefs show some backbone and do something worthwhile and at least get them a good deal and treat them with the respect they deserve.

Makes my blood boil. I am now off for a lie down.

Willard Whyte

12th Jul 2012, 11:12

Olympic security soldiers could be forced to sleep in school halls - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/olympics/news/9394717/Olympic-security-soldiers-could-be-forced-to-sleep-in-school-halls.html)

Speaking following an urgent question in the House of Commons Mrs May said: "There remains no specific secuirty threat to the games and the threat level remains unchanged. There is no question of Olympic security being compromised.
"Our troops are highly skilled, highly trained and this task is the most important facing our nation today."

:rolleyes:

airpolice

12th Jul 2012, 11:13

They will, of course, write a book about all the injustice and misuse of the troops as soon as they leave the service but do nothing about it when they have the chance.

As your blood boils, you display your lack of understanding of the beast.

They will not of course write a book as soon as they retire, they will write a book as soon as the writing on the wall is clear. Once they can see that no more honours are coming their way, then they are freed from the shackles of selfishness and can promote whatever bollocks seems likely to get then on tv (for a fee) or a few well paid newspaper inches each week.

What we need is some way for a vso to accept that he's not going to be anything else, and he can tell tales. I suspect that most of them will tell you that they need to cling on to power and keep climbing (which can't be done if you make waves) in order to reach a dizzy height in order to be taken seriously when they highlight the injustice done to the troops.

Anyone who gets caught misbehaving, and therefore has no prospect of a peerage, will be dismissed as being the bearer of sour grapes if he or she speaks out against the MOD.

The ever present carrot of rewards in the political afterlife, mixed with greed, ensure that however brave our leaders may be in combat, they can be bought off in administration.

tucumseh

12th Jul 2012, 11:28

Group 4 Security are making a right old balls of this.

I have a friend, a retired Sqn Ldr, who successfully went through selection to be a "Control Room" officer during both Olympics. That was 6 months ago and he was meant to undergo 3 weeks initial training in March. He finally heard from G4S yesterday, with a contract offer which he must return within 2 weeks. (You see where this is going?) In the small print, the pay is only ONE THIRD of that agreed and no mention of accommodation, which G4S had originally agreed to provide. (Who can afford to pay lodgings in London on minimum wage?) He can't get through to them to find out WTF is going on. It is a shambles.

So, it is disingenuous of the Government to claim they didn't know G4S were months behind schedule. It has been blindingly obvious for many months, and G4S even admitted it on their website. Equally obvious is the fallback plan (even more Servicemen) would have to be implemented.

oldpusser

12th Jul 2012, 11:41

The villain of the piece is G4S they have completely dropped the ball and should hang their heads in shame they are a disgrace

airpolice

12th Jul 2012, 11:49

Shame?

I don't think so, they may be getting the same money for doing less now.

ShyTorque

12th Jul 2012, 11:52

"Our troops are highly skilled, highly trained and this task is the most important facing our nation today."

Normally after "highly skilled, highly trained and...", ministers would say:

"highly motivated".

I note the minister forgot this part.

"Highly pi$$ed off" might have been more truthful.

Who could blame them?

Chugalug2

12th Jul 2012, 12:06

The shambles that 2012 promises to be will at least be restricted to 2012, though granted the "legacy" shambles will be with us for far longer. In contrast the shambles that is the leadership of the Armed Forces, and in particular that of the Royal Air Force, seems to be a vital ingredient in their demise .
The RAF was of course designed from the outset as a bureaucracy outside of its station gates, but at least in the past that top half of the pyramid could have been said to have had the interests of the bottom half in the forefront of its mind. That appears to be no longer the case and vital parts of the delicate mechanism that makes the Services tick have become badly broken, despite them being continually at war for a longer period than ever before.
Unless and until the culture of "me first" is expunged from the High Command and replaced with a real sense of duty and personal commitment to the welfare of those who serve below them, then the Services will be nothing other than dogs bodies of politicians, whether it be for pet wars or pet circuses.
The wrong people consistently make it up the greasy pole, no doubt assisted by the wrong people already ahead of them. That has to change. The Services are now the only major reliable public bodies left in the country, but that reliability is being tested to destruction. Reform must start at the very top if we wish to avoid Armageddon.

Willard Whyte

12th Jul 2012, 12:08

My solution to security would be that 1 in 10 seats at every olympic event, 1 in 5 for the high-profile events, should be allocated to a member of H.M. Forces, or those who have left within the last 10 years.

Naturally all their family members will also need to be there in the audience.

Given the security concerns over the female beach volleyball venue, I would suggest that 50% of the crowd should be mil or recently ex-mil. Possibly only blokes and good-looking lesbians though.

Just so I can't be accused of being 'non-pc', those who are 'confirmed bachelors' can watch the Graeco-Roman wrestling.

Dan Gerous

12th Jul 2012, 12:25

"G4S have let the country down." Well that will make all the poor grunts caught up in this farce feel a lot better. **** up and receive a scolding like a naughty child.

If these knob ends have been paid for this, then all the forces drafted in, should at least get the payment that the unrecruited were going to get, on top of their forces pay.

mlc

12th Jul 2012, 12:27

Just to put the icing on the cake. G4S are the company this Government intend to take over much of Policing in the UK.

The Public need to wake up..NOW!

Evanelpus

12th Jul 2012, 12:32

G4S are these the same as Group 4 or spawned from Group 4 Security?

Either way, that lot couldn't look after remand priosners at County Court, what hope will they have against potential terrorists at the Olympics?

airpolice

12th Jul 2012, 12:45

Let's not take our eye off of their balls, as it were.

G4S does not exist to provide security for anywhere, it exists to make a profit for shareholders. That's all.

One thing that all business leaders have learned in recent years is that performing well is no requirement of getting government money.

Once you have the contract signed, the money is as good as in your pocket. Performance is not part of the deal anymore.

This looks like the equivalent of the Nimrod farce all over again. Having paid a contractor (G4S/BaE) for the product (Security/Nimrod), we now realise they are not up to it so we'll do without a part of their contribution but let them keep all of the money anyway.

The troops will make do, so that's all right then. Double Gin and jobs for the (Senior) boys all round.

Winco

12th Jul 2012, 13:12

Willard

Could I please ask that you extend the time limit a little bit from 10 years to say 15? Just to give us older farts a fighting chance of seeing the ladies volley ball teams in action? Thank you Sir!

Willard Whyte

12th Jul 2012, 13:35

Sounds fine to me Winco.

If only I were in charge...

airpolice

12th Jul 2012, 13:39

If only someone was in charge of this rudderless ship!

skippedonce

12th Jul 2012, 14:28

Listening to Al Murray (Pub Landlord) a few months ago; his recommendation was that whenever you said '2012 Olympics', you added 'it's going to be a little bit sh1t' to the statement.

Looks like that has really come home for the '2012 experience' of service personnel drafted into the Venue Security Farce.

mlc

12th Jul 2012, 14:32

Nick Herbert, the Police Minister heads a 'think tank' called Reform. It's biggest donor is......G4S. G4S are the 'preferred' bidders for every Police contract.

The new Inspector of Constabulary is Tom Winsor. He recommended much of Policing is privatised. He is a partner in a law firm that advises G4S on.......bidding for privatised Police contracts.

There is a lot of smoke and mirrors currently happening regarding shares that Theresa May's husband may or may not hold in companies connected to G4S.

The nepotism and corruption is staggering.

A2QFI

12th Jul 2012, 14:43

I find, on another forum, that the pay is £10/hr, free board and lodging, free transport during the Games, and one trip from home to London and back.

I bet the Service Chiefs aren't furious enough to say "No" though! I wonder if any of them will be able to spare the time to visit the troops some of whom have had their leave cancelled so that they can participate in this farrago?

brakedwell

12th Jul 2012, 14:53

The nepotism and corruption is staggering.

Shock horror! This is Great Britain old chap - our loyal, efficient public servants don't accept bung's, baksheesh, backhanders, bribes, free tickets or lavish entertainment. Only Johnny foreigner stoops to that kind of behaviour! :}

Doctor Cruces

12th Jul 2012, 15:10

Fed up of the military being used to do this sort of thing.
Wouldn't expect too much in the way of financial reward.
All we got when detached on the fireman's strike of the late seventies was a ten quid Xmas bonus.

As long as the proper snouts are in the right trough, all is well with the world, Isn't it Dave?

Doc C

sisemen

12th Jul 2012, 15:25

http://au.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/ya/download?fid=Trash&mid=2_0_0_4_29971_AOnuHkgAAJAET%2FoACwqsPitSYrg&pid=2&tnef=&YY=1342106588898&file_name=photo.JPG&appid=YahooMailNeo
............................................

Melchett01

12th Jul 2012, 15:48

Wouldn't expect too much in the way of financial reward

Apparently they have been rewarded with tickets to the dress rehersals for the opening and closing ceremonies. :ugh:

dazdaz1

12th Jul 2012, 15:49

Not being Military, but did not you guys officiate at Wimbledon Tennis?

Daz

Climebear

12th Jul 2012, 16:22

dazdaz1

There were military (and other uniformed service) personnel at Wimbledon. However, unlike the Olypmic contingent, the military folk are volunteers who undertake the role while on leave and are paid an allowance by the event organisers.

4mastacker

12th Jul 2012, 16:23

Not being Military, but did not you guys officiate at Wimbledon Tennis?

Daz I can only recall one RAF officer who was actually sufficiently qualified to umpire a match, although there may be others. The service personnel you see in uniform are there as stewards. They are volunteers who have to take annual leave to enable them to attend.

Dammit. Climebear be me to it!!

uffington sb

12th Jul 2012, 16:46

10,000 tickets being donated for the military. A thank you, or just to fill the embarrassing empty stadiums.
The latter methinks.
With all the hype of security, transport etc etc, who'll want to come. Remember the eclipse in Cornwall.

NutLoose

12th Jul 2012, 17:03

So 10,000 tickets to the Blow Football, Shove Ha'penny and a myriad of other minority sports where they are struggling to fill the venues.

A2QFI

12th Jul 2012, 17:16

Nutloose - you forgot the Synchronised Underwater Basket-Weaving!

ShyTorque

12th Jul 2012, 19:43

All we got when detached on the fireman's strike of the late seventies was a ten quid Xmas bonus.

And only later it was noticed that the firemen were on more money than most of the service personnel who were drafted in over Christmas to replace them....

cornish-stormrider

12th Jul 2012, 19:57

No suprises there - shaft the forces and then kick em in the balls.

Gents - the film starship troopers is loosely based on the book.
The book has a main theme that only those who have served to the "state" or "society" or "body politic" get to vote......

I say we have a coup d'etat, re-instate a titular monarchy under liz to ensure checks and balances - and then make it that all politicians and everyone who votes has to have served.......

not just mil, but nhs, teaching, and all society serving careers.
No uni, mp's assistant, pr, MP etc etc

You have to EARN the right to vote.

When in power you can be booted out and sent to prison for corruption.
Integrity is the first criteria

Doctor Cruces

12th Jul 2012, 21:09

ShyTorque,

We knew it at the time.

There was a group of them in the main shopping street where we were sent. They had the temerity to shake their collection bucket at us and begged donations for the poorly paid, striking firemen.
Have you ever seen half a dozen firemen surrounded by eight or nine really pissed off airmen telling them which way was up? It was fun! Nevertheless, they got the message.

On the other hand, the townspeople were wonderful and couldn't do enough for us. Free cinema, free swimming baths and public baths. Don't think we ever bought a drink on a night out.

I digress from the thread, going now.

Doc C

Helol

12th Jul 2012, 21:35

Piece on Newsnight now...about Olympic security.

NutLoose

12th Jul 2012, 22:44

Or lack off..

orca

13th Jul 2012, 03:11

Gum shield in, safety specs on...

Have this security team absolutely porked it? Yes.
Is this a government organised shambles? Yes.
Is the contract ridiculously lucrative? Yes.
Should it have been awarded as is? No absolutely not.

New voice this net.

Should armed forces personel be paid extra for aiding the civil power? No, absolutely not. It's fundemental military task.

What's the rationale here, that we're prepared to go to sea for months on end in a missile boat, or bayonet charge Terry in Helmand, or fly through cu-nim so dense you can't see the wing....but we're demanding extra to help out in peacetime?

Errr, no. Perks of the trade. Galling perhaps and the girls and boys shouldn't be out of pocket but be it firemen strikes or plain old crap management of a security contract - we're here to serve, and if that means helping out with civil order then that's all in our TORs.

Al R

13th Jul 2012, 05:40

I don't think extra money or living in a tent are the issues, the infantry in Helmund would be happy to get their heads down there. I have no issue either with the military stepping in when needs must, such as responding to strikes or terrorist action. The issue I have is that this is representative of government not working yet again (I heard the phrase 'confusing ambition with ability' yesterday). All the evidence points to the award and monitoring of this contract being bodged and that is inexcusable.

G4S is a profit making company, of course it has one eye on costs. The government though, has a responsibility to the public and to its servants and this is the latest example of the military being called in to paper over cracks created by g'ment incompetence and negligence. I cringe when I hear politicians making capital from their own shortcomings by alligning themselves to 'our military'. Heads up for cringeworthy grip and grins of unhealthy looking elected clowns pumping military flesh. :yuk:

Winco

13th Jul 2012, 07:11

orca,

I have to take issue with your Sir. Your comment: Should armed forces personel be paid extra for aiding the civil power? No, absolutely not. It's fundemental military task is frankly nonesence.

This is NOT a fundamental Military task at all. If it was or ever had been, then the military would have been involved from day one on this matter, and it wasn't. This was a decision taken by those in power NOT to use the military for such duties and to thus award the contract to a civilian company who have now failed the country miserably.

As to the question of financial reward for being 'called up' during these circumstances, you are of course entitled to your opinion however, there will be many servicemen and women who will have had holidays, leave and other plans cancelled because of this governments incompetance and negligence IMHO. Those who have just returned from the sand pit, expecting some quality time with family etc will now suddenly find themselves dumped in the centre of London, and all their plans screwed up. Firemen going on strike is one thing, bailing out a civilian company is an entirely different siuation I'm afraid (not that I agree with the firemen either!)

So, I fail to see why those who are being shafted in order to prop-up the games, should not get some form of financial reward. Why not? Is not the issue of free tickets a reward?

But what about those who don't want a free ticket for the games? What about those, whose wives are so pi$$ed off at all this, not getting a few hundred quid to take them away for a weekend or something to help them get over all the crap of this? Whatever happened to the service family we used to have? I am not too proud to say that in the main, my wife went through far more sh1t than I ever did by being in the military. It was her who was left behind at no notice to explain things to the kids. It was her left behind to cope with it all.

I really do think that we should be doing something here to say to people, 'listen, we are bloody sorry for screwing things up, but here is some money, get yourselves away for a break', or whatever.

Instead, I have little doubt that those who have had to cancel their holidays and other plans will now have all sorts of hardship and grief trying to recover their costs back, knowing the beaurocracy of it all.

And finally it was interesting watching the former CDS telling us all how the boys and girls will just get on with it last night on Newsnight. Well that may well be true Sir, but it is somewhat spineless of you to simply brush it off in the way you did. Typical of VSOs these days I'm afraid.

Good luck to all of you who's lives have been affected by this fiasco. You have my sympathy, and above all my respect. I have no doubt you will all just get on and do it, and do it well. That still doesn't make it bloody right though!!

Winco

airpolice

13th Jul 2012, 07:47

Orca wrote: Should armed forces personel be paid extra for aiding the civil power? No, absolutely not. It's fundemental military task.

What's the rationale here, that we're prepared to go to sea for months on end in a missile boat, or bayonet charge Terry in Helmand, or fly through cu-nim so dense you can't see the wing....but we're demanding extra to help out in peacetime?

Errr, no. Perks of the trade. Galling perhaps and the girls and boys shouldn't be out of pocket but be it firemen strikes or plain old crap management of a security contract - we're here to serve, and if that means helping out with civil order then that's all in our TORs.

Or, to be brief, but less eloquent...... if you can't take a joke you shouldn't have joined.

When things are going well for service people they actually go very well. It should be no surprise therefore that when the **** arrives, it is particularly bad. I'm not saying that it's right, but that's just the way it is.

Al R

13th Jul 2012, 08:09

And finally it was interesting watching the former CDS telling us all how the boys and girls will just get on with it last night on Newsnight. Well that may well be true Sir, but it is somewhat spineless of you to simply brush it off in the way you did. Typical of VSOs these days I'm afraid.

Winco,

I did wonder if the fact he was in a tux, the lateness of the hour and his relaxed attitude had something to do with how his message came out.

dctyke

13th Jul 2012, 08:17

The police drafted in are complaining they ONLY get £60 per day extra and that the bars in the holiday camps they are staying at wont stay open late!!!!

Al R

13th Jul 2012, 08:35

Thats because the police have a Federation. Talking of Dannatt on Newsnight last night seemingly brushing over the issue, he was the first CGS to attempt to seriously counter the idea of a military Federation. I have never been 'for' the idea, but that has always been based on the implicit understanding that the faith you place in those who look after your interests, is well founded. Dannatt of course, was Cameron's unofficial military adviser in the run up to the election.

mlc

13th Jul 2012, 08:36

"The police drafted in are complaining they ONLY get £60 per day extra and that the bars in the holiday camps they are staying at wont stay open late!!!!"

Did you read that in that Daily mail? :ugh:

The Federation are useless and the Police are Cameron's no1 target at the moment. G4S are in line to take over much of frontline Policing as Cameron's aim is to halve Police numbers. My pension has been nicked and my contribution rate is going up to 14% regardless. We have all been banned from having leave as well.

If you can come up with the location of these holiday camps, please let me know where they are.

teeteringhead

13th Jul 2012, 09:44

So 10,000 tickets to the Blow Football, Shove Ha'penny and a myriad of other minority sports where they are struggling to fill the venues. ... nah! nothing as good as that!

They will offload the hundreds of thousands of unsold footie tickets, and probably spin it to say kick-ball is the game of choice of the PBI (cynical? Moi?)

Think of the joys: on August 1st you could watch two matches at the same stadium (Ricoh in Coventry)....

....... Senegal vs UAE ...... zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

AND

........ Japan vs Honduras ..... zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

somehow can't imagine either fixture filling the 32 500 capacity stadium....

dalek

13th Jul 2012, 12:34

Depressing to see that nothing changes.
I was in Thumrait when the Exercise I was on changed into the Afghan conflict. The only thing I noticed was that my tent became more crowded and my £10 ish a day LOA was taken away. Apparently LOA does not apply to Operations.
It would be nice, just for once, to see the boys and girls treated at least as well as the Police Officers of equivalent rank. After all, they are doing a policing duty.
There are thousands of Civil Service and other "Fat Cats" ripping off the Olympic budget. A few million extra is neither here nor there.
Let the security Company foot the bill.

A2QFI

13th Jul 2012, 13:27

BBC researchers well up to speed! A rear crew member of one of the helicopters was interviewed and identified as "Lieutenant Corporal X - RAF Regiment" I have been away from the RAF for years but this is a new one on me.

Jayand

13th Jul 2012, 14:10

He was prob lance corporal x RAF Regt and they are being deployed in the back of puma's so maybe not as inacurate as you think.

Wander00

13th Jul 2012, 14:12

Along with the reporter referring to "Typhoons and Puma helicopters" as (RN) AEW Sea Kings hovered in the background - at that stage not a Puma in sight

uffington sb

13th Jul 2012, 15:01

Jayant.
Lance Corporal isn't a rank in the RAF Regiment.

brakedwell

13th Jul 2012, 15:03

The Lieutenant Corporal even had a "Follow Me" sign ready to hook on to the side of his chopper! Perhaps Airlines should stick "Bugger Off" signs on their Boeings :ugh:

uffington sb

13th Jul 2012, 15:07

Jayant.
Lance Corporal isn't a rank in the RAF Regiment.

NutLoose

13th Jul 2012, 15:10

dctyke
The police drafted in are complaining they ONLY get £60 per day extra and that the bars in the holiday camps they are staying at wont stay open late!!!!

Having watched the flame procession a couple of times on the news I was suprised not to see the runners from the MET wearing pedometers, so they could file their mileage claims... :E

.

ZH875

13th Jul 2012, 15:15

Jayant.
Lance Corporal isn't a rank in the RAF Regiment.

Oh yes it is. Has been for a few years now.

uffington sb

13th Jul 2012, 16:50

Blimey. I must have been out for too long!

ricardian

13th Jul 2012, 17:09

Olympic security (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/olympics/news/9396581/Olympic-security-The-firm-at-centre-of-the-shambles-has-seen-fee-rise-by-53m.html):
G4S has had its fee for managing civilian security staff for the Games rise from £7.3 million to £60 million.

Moi/

13th Jul 2012, 17:21

Its just not worth it financially to volunteer.

A2QFI

13th Jul 2012, 18:53

Job he is doing and where = Correct
Lieutenant Corporal = Does not exist SFAIK
Too much for the Beeb to get names, jobs , ranks and aircraft types correct at the same time.

Non Emmett

13th Jul 2012, 19:01

Olympic Fiasco

Do you remember the huge problems we had at the time of the foot and mouth epidemic when the military were called in and sorted things out in commendable style. We have an evolving problem once again with the security situation at the Olympics and I feel sure as a civilian that our armed foces will once again step in and do a fantastic job.

Should you have to ? Almost certainly not but at the end of the day the armed forces are more highly regarded than the unionised fire service and the pampered and overpaid police.

:\

Torque Tonight

13th Jul 2012, 19:09

To reciprocate perhaps next time we're a bit short on the frontline G4S can send some of their management across to Helmand to make up numbers. The Fire Brigades Union owe us many favours as well.

orca

14th Jul 2012, 05:14

Winco,

We clearly don't agree, but to flesh out my point. Bailing out a security firm is nothing to do with defence business. Unless, that is, the government was counting (naively, stupidly - whatever you fancy) on the security firm for something it considers very important and which it now cannot deliver.

Now we enter the realms of MACA which is a fundemental role of the armed forces. I assume you don't disagree?

I concur absolutely that it shouldn't have been needed in this case. But actually the MACA guidelines point out that planners shouldn't plan on/ count on military help - we're there as the Alamo/ last resort/ back stop CAP.

What I fail to see (and again we disagree) is why someone pinged for extra duties in London for a fortnight should expect recompense when someone given a crash move to Faslane wouldn't.

And yes I know that stacks of boys and girls are in or about to go to, or have just got back from the sand pit. And I too have had my fair share of 'rather cross wife'. It goes with the turf. Doesn't make it any easier to swallow but it's a rule of the game.

Last point and I really do mean it genuinely is we're all human and we all differ significantly. I respect your opinions, just don't share them on this occasion. Eyes out, fly safely.

Ogre

14th Jul 2012, 07:15

Slight tangent, but one of my former colleagues posted a notice on farcebook which read "British servicemen in Afghanistan are threatening to go on strike next week. Firemen and dustmen are being drafted in to fill the gap"

Made I larff

Wander00

14th Jul 2012, 07:20

Said on last night's news that G4S admitted they had blown it and were going to lose £50M on the Olympic contract. My hearr bleeds warm p1$$ for them. They'll get it back on plice contracts later, no doubt helped by the incoming Chief Inspector of Plods

Winco

14th Jul 2012, 08:16

orca,

Thank you for your reply and let me say how nice it is to have reasoned response without (as we are all guilty of) resorting to slagging each other off; Thank you.

OK, so we clearly disagree and I would concede that in the main, you are correct in your comments. Yes, we are there as a backstop, Yes to your points on MACA and to all of the others, but where I still disagree strongly is your point about someone getting a short-notice, crash move to Faslane or anywhere else.

They get a short-notice posting because of service reasons, whether we like it or not.Someone has gone sick, someones Wife is sick, there is an urgent op reason, whatever. They don't get a short notice posting to Faslane, because the NAAFI manager has quit his job, and they can't get a replacement. (Do we still have NAAFI?) And I think that is the fundamental point I would wish to make strongly out of all this.

These 3500 boys and girls aren't getting a last minute posting because we are off on another Op Corporate. We are not going off to invade some third world dictatorship. Indeed, they are not even going off to provide essential fire cover for our wonderful civilian fire service. They are going off to prop up a civilian company, who were supposed to provide security for a civilian event at a time when the Armed Forces are hurting more than they have ever hurt before.

I am absolutely furious about it all I have to say.

I am sick to death of the Armed Forces of this Nation being regarded and treated as little more than pond-life by the government, CS's, MP's and all-un-sundry each and every day and yet, as soon as there is a problem, 'Lets bring in the troops'

All I am saying is that whilst they don't have an entitlement or ligitimate claim to a financial reward (and I accept they don't have a legal entitlement) I just think it's time that someone stood up and said, 'hey, if we are going to screw over our Armed Forces for crap like this, let's at least show them we are grateful'. And that NEVER happens.

Wives do put up with a lot and in the main they get on and 'suck it up' However, they will be less willing to accept another separation simply to help out a civilian company that has charged us all (and been paid already!) millions of pounds and delivered nothing.

I seem to remember that when I came back from Corporate, I was given 2 tickets to the FA Cup final that year! As it happens, I gave them away because I couldn't make it! But it was a nice thought. Does the same happen now?? I somehow doubt it.

Maybe G4S should pay to send them and their families away for a fortnight to Centre Parks or somewhere else.

Rant over for another day, just about to launch into the wide blue yonder!!
Be safe

Winco

Jayand

14th Jul 2012, 08:42

I couldn't agree more with Winco, I hate the "it's life in a blue suit" brigade and "just get on with it" people have had enoughof this BS, pointless wars and deaths in a country far from home that we don't understand and won't change, unprecedented cuts and spiralling morale mean "just get on with it" doesn't cut the mustard anymore.
People thought they were spending their summer doing x and suddenly they get stiffed to fill in for a poorly organised, unsupervised civvy company.
It's called taking the piss!!!

BEagle

14th Jul 2012, 08:46

From the BBC:

Costs repaid

It has emerged that 3,500 extra servicemen will be needed to provide security at the Games.

Culture secretary Jeremy Hunt said any serviceman who had been inconvenienced would have their costs repaid through refunds from the G4S contract.

Now, G4S stand to lose £50M and there are 11000 servicemen due to be 'inconvenienced' by this ridiculous overblown indulgence of a few sweaty oafs running, jumping, splashing about and throwing things.

50 000 000 / 11 000 = £4545 per head?

EngAl

14th Jul 2012, 09:04

If G4S are going to forgo £50m why not spend it on the defence housing estate? Benefit goes in the right direction and not just back into government coffers.

Willard Whyte

14th Jul 2012, 09:05

It just keeps getting better...

Olympics: 'I don't know if guards speak English', says G4S chief - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/olympics/news/9399841/Olympics-I-dont-know-if-guards-speak-English-says-G4S-chief.html)

Wensleydale

14th Jul 2012, 09:06

There have been complaints earlier in the week about MPs being given complimentary tickets for some of the blue riband events at the games.

Wouldn't it be a pleasant surprise if the MPs donated these tickets to off duty members of the armed forces providing security so that they could actually see some of the games and provide something of a carrot to the armed forces after recent severe applications of the stick.

ricardian

14th Jul 2012, 09:15

The Guardian reports on G4S chaos (http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/jul/12/london-2012-g4s-security-crisis?newsfeed=true)

TheChitterneFlyer

14th Jul 2012, 09:39

You really couldn't make all of this up unless you were writing a script for a typical British comedy show. It's my guess that the "Twenty-Twelve" TV show must be gleaning all of their material from PPrune!

I hope that there's been an adequate risk assessment and that the DDH has made his "handshake" with the UK Gov... dots the I's and crosses the T's!

TCF

TheChitterneFlyer

14th Jul 2012, 09:42

Wouldn't it be a pleasant surprise if the MPs donated these tickets to off
duty members of the armed forces providing security so that they could actually
see some of the games and provide something of a carrot to the armed forces
after recent severe applications of the stick.

Except that they're confined to barra... er, tents!

dalek

14th Jul 2012, 10:07

I feel the same as Winco at post 154.

Yes, service boys and girls have no automatic entitlement to financial compensation. However, you can bet your life that MOD will charge G4 a fortune for their services and they will see little or nothing of this fortune.

Hammonds promise that nobody will be out of pocket is hollow.
Did anyone ever try to claim Duty Mileage for there car?
I doubt many will see a penny.

FODPlod

14th Jul 2012, 10:29

dalek:

London 2012: G4S 'only knew eight days ago' of staff shortage (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18840464)
...G4S have agreed to pay for the deployment of 3,500 extra military personnel, to plug the gap in security staff.

Culture secretary Jeremy Hunt said any serviceman who had been inconvenienced would have their costs repaid through refunds from the G4S contract.

Mr Buckles added: "We are very very grateful to the military for providing this support. To the individuals we are grateful that they are giving up time with family to come and help us."

I suppose we'll just have to wait and see.

biddedout

14th Jul 2012, 11:23

Having just seen your new Commanding Oficer for the next six weeks - (Nick Buckles G4S) on TV, the fisrt thing you should do is march him off down to the station barber.

Doctor Cruces

14th Jul 2012, 11:30

They're probably all confined to site to stop them telling all and sundry how peed off they are at their lot. Wouldn't do for some journo to run with the story that whilst Their Airships are all saying how pleased the boys and girls are to be able to help in this way that the boys and girls are making mutinous mutterings about the way they are being treated, especially the confined to camp bit.

I'm glad I'm out now and feel really sorry for the people "fingered" for this duty.

Doc C

FODPlod

14th Jul 2012, 11:41

From the Navy News website:From Helmand to Heathrow: Navy helicopters join aerial shield for Olympics (http://www.navynews.co.uk/archive/news/item/5281)
...In all, some 17,000 military personnel are committed to the Olympic and Paralympic events – 2,600 each from the Navy and RAF, 11,800 from the Army.

And of those 17,000 personnel, 1,600 are involved in ensuring the skies of London are safe, among them the 53 air and ground crew from 854 NAS and their Sea King Mk7 Airborne Surveillance and Control, fresh from front-line duties in Afghanistan.

scarecrow450

14th Jul 2012, 12:06

Did anyone ever try to claim Duty Mileage for there car?

Most have been told not to take the own cars as they will be no space for parking at Halton ! Also breakfast will be served 2-4 am !! they will then be bussed to Olympics for their 12 hour day !!

BEagle

14th Jul 2012, 12:33

....no space for parking at Halton

You're joking, surely? There are plenty of open spaces which can be used for car parking.

Perhaps that underwhelming little w@nquerre Coe might like to experience what a day supporting his Lordship's overblown sports day is actually like?

If I hear that stupid strapline mantra "...Delivering a safe and secure Games" trotted out once more, I will probably barf....:yuk: It's almost North Korean in the way it appears on everything and anything connected with this ridiculous farce of jockstrappery.

With any luck this wet summer will continue for a few more weeks yet....

NutLoose

14th Jul 2012, 12:49

Rumour has it they are having to fill in more than just simply guarding the place.

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRkpZLqc7j-Fuans46JzcDx0GFhWDE51voFptqwocbvtA0T4hB8

4everAD

14th Jul 2012, 13:29

I'm so glad I'm missing this fiasco by going OOA for 4 months, as a married dad of 2 it's not often I'd rather be in the middle east than in the capital city of my country! Less working hours, more sun and much better food and lodgings. I can speak to my kids every day plus where I'm going I'm not confined to camp, loads of lads/lasses off my Sqn are "Helping" and I really feel for them.

Dan Winterland

14th Jul 2012, 13:57

''You really couldn't make all of this up unless you were writing a script for a typical British comedy show. It's my guess that the "Twenty-Twelve" TV show must be gleaning all of their material from PPRuNe!''

if you put the truth down on paper and tried to sell it to the BBC - it would be rejected as being too implausible. I bet the Chinese didn't have a problem finding people for security for thri Olypics four years ago!

sitigeltfel

14th Jul 2012, 14:05

Are the chaps and chapettes manning the missile batteries issued small arms to defend themselves and their weapons, or does that responsibility fall to plod?

Willard Whyte

14th Jul 2012, 15:39

I too was pondering the situational irony of having Her Majesty's finest standing there smartly in their cotton combats, armed with nothing but a hard stare, whilst plod swans around in a stab vest and a MP5 in their mitts.

oldmansquipper

14th Jul 2012, 16:14

Confident I could help out in some way, (You know, retired ex-military, high level clearance, still fit etc etc) I offered my services to G4S over a year ago - and didn`t even get an acknowledgement.... Ho Hum - I guess my inability to speak Polish or Swahili went against me....;)

What this whole debacle says is that providing "Aid to the Civil Power" is still a major but very unpredictable issue. Clearly (to me anyway) the impending sacking of 20,000 troops is somewhat ill advised. :confused:

So...A message for that nice Mr Cameron and his cronies is:

"REPENT - BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE!"

..or maybe it is too late already?:\

NutLoose

14th Jul 2012, 16:18

As someone said on another site, even Caesar wouldn't have been daft enough to sack 20,000 of his best troops then invite them to Rome for the Games..

.

Biggus

14th Jul 2012, 19:56

I saw an interesting comment in today's telegraph, that 130,000 condoms were made available in the atheletes village for the Athens games, while at Sydney 70,000 were available (all of which were given out).

I guess that is one way of making the games "safe"....

I wonder how many are available at the Olympic village in London (anyone for an FOI request?)?

Perhaps we should be asking the papers to run headlines such as...

"MOD troops give up their holiday to guard atheletes shagfest"!!! :(

Lima Juliet

14th Jul 2012, 19:59

Most have been told not to take the own cars as they will be no space for parking at Halton ! Also breakfast will be served 2-4 am !! they will then be bussed to Olympics for their 12 hour day !!

Plenty of parking available at RAF Halton for the RAF that are staying there as part of the VSF - the RAF Joining Instruction applies and not the shoddy LONDIST effort.

I'm taking mine and I hope it won't be alone!

LJ

NutLoose

14th Jul 2012, 21:43

If you park on what was the old airframe end carpark up from the Guardroom, you may see my test piece if they haven't resurfaced it, they were doing it when I was there and I put my test piece in front of the steam roller and the nice guy pressed it into the Tarmac for me :E

cornish-stormrider

14th Jul 2012, 21:54

Our illustrious mates over in the brown forum have a 42 page bitchfest going on.
I do feel some sympathy for anyone dicked for covering sports day.

However - you can't take a joke you shouldn't have joined.......
if you are lucky you might get a shiny new button out of it.

Willard Whyte

14th Jul 2012, 22:54

if you are lucky you might get a shiny new button out of it.

And what's a gong worth?

It doesn't count for owt at Asda.

Melchett01

14th Jul 2012, 22:55

As someone said on another site, even Caesar wouldn't have been daft enough to sack 20,000 of his best troops then invite them to Rome for the Games..

Paul Wolfowitz did just that in Iraq in 2003 and it was a contributing factor to nearly a decade of insurgency. What was it Mark Twain said, "history doesn't repeat itself but it sure does rhyme"?

orca

15th Jul 2012, 05:17

Winco,

Follow me through old chap. I sadly didn't slip the surly bonds today but a long drive gave a bit of time for reflection. The more I reflected, the angrier I got. So if you'll forgive me we don't 100% agree but we're almost there.

Here's my thinking:

We agree we are the back stop, that in MACA we're the last resort. I notice that the government has not called up the junior doctors, or the fire brigade, or the civil service. It has called on the military. The loyal gun dog that takes kick after kick but still turns up to the peg when the chips are down.

And that got me thinking. I actually have nothing against chaps on olympic duty being given tickets etc, or something so their family could have a nice day out or similar.

But what of the real heroes. 'Our brothers down range' as the US would have it? What about their families? What about my family? Should they not get a spare olympic ticket, not because I got called up, but rather because I was doing something important so couldn't be.

And here's the real issue here. This has demonstrated to me in glorious technicolour, that we are special. That is to say we operate to different rules, mindsets, expectations and responsibilities to everyone else. And then I became really angry. Because it is exactly for reasons such as these that our farking pensions aren't the same as those of other public sector workers. This is why our pay shouldn't have been frozen; because we're different. Because when it matters they turn to us, and when they turn to us, we turn up with the goods.

Fly safe everyone. Orca.

sitigeltfel

15th Jul 2012, 05:54

However - you can't take a joke you shouldn't have joined.......
Most of us can tell the difference between a joke and a being given a shafting.

A and C

15th Jul 2012, 09:17

So a guy gets back from the sandy place after six months wth a P45 looming and all he has to look forward to taking is taking his wife and kids on holiday for two weeks.

Then he is told canx the holiday you are off to East London to protect the great unwashed !

I expect a few of them will just pack up the wife and kids and head for the sun, after all what sanction do the authority's have ? They can't sack him because they already have and if they take court action they will look totally stupid and ungreatfull in the press.

scarecrow450

15th Jul 2012, 09:34

Most have been told not to take the own cars as they will be no space for parking at Halton !

The 6 or so bods from our little old section were going to share cars but they were told use the bus! provided to get themselves there !

NutLoose

15th Jul 2012, 11:57

I do remember once the RAF put a no alcohol curfew on us many moons ago during something similar, it lasted ohhhh about 45 minutes as most just ignored it and went out on the piss... There was about 50 of us and there wasn't exactly a lot they could do about it, as a Squadron with out engineers is simply a storage facility.

FODPlod

15th Jul 2012, 12:04

Winco

15th Jul 2012, 12:13

orca,

I'm with you 100% - Don't have a problem with anything you say!

But.................................. and it's a pretty big BUT.....................

Why can we pay tube drivers extra money to do 'their' job?
Why can we pay bus drivers extra to do 'their' job?
Why can we even pay the bloody police extra to do 'their' job?

IF we can do all of that for people to do do their normal, everyday job, then I fail to see why we can't do the same for the thousands of servicemen and women who aren't doing their normal 'everyday' job. That's the only thing we seem to differ on I think??

As for the VSOs of all three services, I have yet to hear any of them utter a single word against the decision. They are the ones who will get the Gongs for their troops doing a bloody fine job. They are the ones who will get the post-service golden job opportunities in the likes of BAe etc, but I have little doubt that there won't be a single one visible during the games - except in the poncy enclosures, sipping Champers and caviar!!

Got to go, I can feel the old blood pressure starting to rise again and I promised myself I wouldn't get wound up about it all again. Seem to have failed on that score, so, off for a lie down myself!!

Best wishes to every serviceman and woman involved in the Nations sports day fortnight. I do hope you all get something out of it.

mlc

15th Jul 2012, 12:27

I am now a Police Officer.

I have just had my days off and leave cancelled because of the G4S debacle. Because of the recent change to my working conditions (introduced by Cameron's lacky Tom Winsor), I do not get extra pay nor overtime.

We are now having to guard an Olympic venue because 5 out of a contracted 180 G4S staff turned up. 13000 Other Police Officers are in the same boat. They to were given a few days notice.

Having been cut by 16000 Officers, we too are 'overstretched'. Without wishing to repeat myself, stop reading the bloody Daily Mail to get your facts about what Police are supposedly 'earning'.

JFZ90

15th Jul 2012, 12:36

They could split the £50M fine on G4S and split it amongst the 17,000 troops involved.

This would be £3,000k each. Enough compensation for a couple of weeks forced work I'd say.

Compare this to the £284M the contract to G4S is worth. As they were to provide 14,000 security staff, this works out at £20,000 for each security worker, which doesn't really stack up with the £6.5/hour that has also been quoted as what the workers are actually earning.

3 weeks full time (40hrs) at £6.5/hour is £800. Wonder where the other £19,200 per worker is being spent? Perhaps if G4S had been more generous in their pay they would have been able to recruit.

Something very nasty here about the cost effectiveness of the private sector in these contracts. Good job that Bernard Gray isn't talking about basing the future of DE&S procurement on some sort of Olympic Delivery Authority model.........

Link - to be fair he raises some good points in his initial answer to Q90:

House of Commons - Uncorrected Evidence - HC9-ii (http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201213/cmselect/cmdfence/uc9-ii/uc901.htm)

Thelma Viaduct

15th Jul 2012, 12:47

I find it shocking how the government can firstly send troops to fight a war based on lies in Iraq, then to Afghanistan where all the deaths and injuries are for nothing. Then they have the brass neck to send the over worked and under resourced troops to man the London games.

Lima Juliet

15th Jul 2012, 12:56

JFZ

You need to consider the cost to Defence already in your calculations:

1. The free meals 3 times a day under Field Conditions.
2. The cost of the infrastructure - toilets, bedding, ablutions, etc...
3. The welfare packages - access to gym eqpt, communal TVs and recreational areas.
4. The payment of unexpected seperation allowances.
5. The laying on of at least a fleet of 30+ 55-seat coaches each day.
6. The trg cost for the week long VSF Trg Centre courses.

I suspect your £50M might be a lot smaller after all of that...:(

LJ

PS. On the subject of wages. The rumour is that the Company originally agreed to pay circa £140 per day and then slashed it to £80 per day - a lot of people that had signed up for it stuck 2 fingers up at the reduced wages considering the cost of travel/living in London for a 10-12 hour working day. Hey Presto! We now need the extra 3,500 troops to bail out the company. :ugh:

Lima Juliet

15th Jul 2012, 13:07

For the VSF guys and girls working at RAF Halton for the Olympics, there is plenty of space for cars. For those using the place to stage for their RSOI en-route to other locations, there is no room. There is also no capacity for large numbers of one-way hire cars.

If you don't believe me, then get a hold of the RAF Joining Instruction via CMLO for the VSF Trg School and there is a specific section on transport - it clearly states that individuals will be able to park on station, but you may be parked 1km from your Barrack Block.

LJ

reynoldsno1

16th Jul 2012, 02:42

On this am's BBC World News, G4S apparently gave permission for a reporter to speak to one of the recently recruited security 'team leaders'. He was asked what his duties were - after much hesitation, he spoke, I think, about searches and X-rays. Aside from being unintelligible itwas obvious he really didn't have a clue. Presumably G4S thought him a shining example ...

sitigeltfel

16th Jul 2012, 05:47

There are circa 650 Members of Parliament, many of whom will have second homes in London, funded by the taxpayer. As the games are being held during the Parliamentary summer recess, these homes should be requisitioned for the military to be used as accommodation for those dragooned into provided security cover.
Each one of these properties could provide decent temporary barracks for six people, in warm, dry and civilised conditions, with little additional cost.

They can't argue against that..........can they?

LowObservable

16th Jul 2012, 09:29

Britain flooded with 'brand police' to protect sponsors - Home News - UK - The Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/britain-flooded-with-brand-police-to-protect-sponsors-7945436.html)

So the armed forces get their leave canceled, freeing the Olympics to send people out to protect McDonalds' and Coca-Cola's contracts. After this and Penn State, nobody can doubt that organized sport is a foul and stupid racket that makes the defense industry look like St Francis of :mad: Assisi.

lenhamlad

16th Jul 2012, 10:25

As an ex Chief Immigration Officer of 20 years standing I applied for a number of roles with G4S. I was interviewed on 9 January by an Indian national here in the UK on a visa and was asked to prove my entitlement to work in the UK, despite me showing him my British passport and my P60 from UK Border Agency. As a result of the shambolic process I wrote to the Olympics Minister, Hugh Robertson who happens to be my constituency MP. I outlined a number of concerns and whilst not expecting a response from him I had hoped that someone in the govt. would at least take on board some of my points.

In April I had an email from G4S asking me why I had not attended two training courses in March. I telephoned and explained that I had not been sent any joining instructions. The person on other end of the phone was adamant that I had been advised but could not find the original email. They then refused to tell my what job was being offered, what duties would entail, length of time of the contract nor what the pay would be. At that point I decided I had had enough and told them to remove me from the selection process.

I feel sorry for those who have just come back from tours abroad and are now being forced to spend the next six weeks rifling through peoples belongings and patting them down. I don't expect there will be anyone of the rank of Major or above being forced to do this.

Finally I heard that MOD police are having to fill in the gaps for the UK Border Agency following several days of training. That is because Theresa May agreed to a cut of 900 immigration staff and now she is reaping what she sowed.

A2QFI

16th Jul 2012, 12:00

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/multimedia/archive/00316/Barker_16_316206c.jpg

Further comment NOT needed!

Dunky

16th Jul 2012, 14:44

From my own experience of this shambles, last week I was on one of the training courses run by G4S. Of the 220 expected, 30 turned up. On given instruction to write an alphanumeric code on a form, one of the letters was given as E Echo, which one of the candidates promptly wrote as A. There seemed to be quite a few people with foreign passports and Visa's who struggled a lot with English. As far as security goes, most of them would be as useful as a chocolate tea pot.

As for G4S, I still haven't received role specific training, security passes, uniform, deployment instructions, or even told what role I'll be playing.

500N

16th Jul 2012, 16:53

reynoldsno1

I saw that idiot on our news, as you said, didn't have a clue.
The blind leading the blind !

Looking from the outside, it seems that ONE particular minister is involved in all the cock ups - G4S, Immigration etc.

BEagle

16th Jul 2012, 16:55

It's not just the G4S bouncers who haven't been trained, it seems:

London 2012 Olympics: American and Australian team buses get lost from Heathrow to Olympic Park - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/olympics/9403023/London-2012-Olympics-American-and-Australian-team-buses-get-lost-from-Heathrow-to-Olympic-Park.html)

Untrained bus drivers roaming London unable to find their destinations, despite their Zil lanes. Chaos on the M4 due to an accident and the knock-on effect of the dictatorial Zil lanes..... At one stage there was a 32 mile tailback today...:eek:

Quite a few stories of lost athletes' luggage at Thiefrow as well....:uhoh:

What a farce your self-indulgent orgy of jockstrappery is fast becoming, eh Coe?

500N

16th Jul 2012, 17:02

BEagle

If what occurred in Sydney is anything to go by, Coe and the Government will still get the "best games ever" tag and then within 7 days anyone in a senior position of LOCOG and maybe the Government will vanish into thin air, quietly picking up a gong or two along the way so as not to annoy the masses who hopefully made it all work.

In the article above, nice to see someone is using a bit of common sense insead of driving around lost for 3 hours.
"The driver said: "Sorry about this." He then got out a map, before performing a U-turn and quickly getting back on the correct route."

Tankertrashnav

16th Jul 2012, 17:09

Senior copper from Manchester on the PM programme on R4 explaining how he's had to step in and top up G4's security shortfall at a hotel by providing 28 pcs and 4 sergeants at an extra cost of £30,000 a day.

Now if he means 32 coppers on duty 24 hours a day that means, say c100 coppers, but he didnt say that.

So where does he get a figure of £30k a day - that's not far shy of £1k/per day/per plod? Now I know the police are overpaid, but a grand a day?

Lima Juliet

16th Jul 2012, 17:45

£1k per day (especially if the full 24hrs) is not massively OTT in my experience. There are plenty pf consultants out there pulling in anywhere between £700-£1500 for their services (IT, Project Management, Security, etc...).

The trick about contract rates is making your employment seamless and then you're into mega-wonga; sadly for most, it is 1 week here, 2 weeks there, a month here and a month there, intersperced with 1-2 weeks between contracts...

LJ

Lima Juliet

16th Jul 2012, 17:52

I don't expect there will be anyone of the rank of Major or above being forced to do this.

The Venue Senior Military Reps are OF-4s (Cdr, Lt Col, Wg Cdr) and the ones I know are most definately not volunteers! I know of at least one who had less than 3 days of POTL having just been for a 6 month stint in the sand-pit. There are also OF-5s and 1-stars burning the midnight oil in LONDIST and the other Front Line Comds. Yes, the majority are Other Ranks being dicked with X-Ray, Vehicle and Personnel search duties, but there are still significant numbers of "Zobs" taking one for the team as well...:ok:

LJ

paully

16th Jul 2012, 18:09

Tankertrashnav

The figures quoted do not go to plod..Its called a `Special Services` charge. Such rates are set annually by the Police Authority and when Police Services are required in these circs, Officers are supplied, in this case to G4S, at this rate. A good slice of the wedge received goes straight into the Police Authority funds. Hope this clears it up..

iRaven

16th Jul 2012, 19:24

I wonder if they'll have us laid out like these guys at the Munich Olympics in 1936...?

http://www.arrse.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=80798&d=1342175547

:}

Dunky

16th Jul 2012, 19:38

Now that's discipline, they've buried whole squads up to their helmet, and they've still kept perfect formation. I hate to imagine what terrible offence they've committed on the drill square to deserve this punishment though :E

Lima Juliet

16th Jul 2012, 19:56

I wonder how many of those helmets one could "hoof" until getting a good shoeing from those black shirts - it'd be worth it, though! :ok:

Bertie Thruster

16th Jul 2012, 20:06

Applied for G4S olympic staff in April, to work security, day shifts preferably, at a regional site that is a 30 minute drive from my home. I thought I'd 'do my bit', as I had some time spare.

Selected for the venue and position in April. The ensuing vetting procedures over the next 3 months were intermittent and chaotic; occasional emails, random mobile phone calls; ("we need written proof of your last seven years tax payments." I was on hold to HMRC for 2 hours to get that. It was then never asked for!) etc, etc.

On the other hand, the security training (when it arrived), given by training companies contracted to G4S, was always professional and good quality.

....I've just been allocated 17 shifts in the next 19 days; not at my regional site but in London and every single one a 1900- 0700 night shift!

Willard Whyte

16th Jul 2012, 20:46

At one stage there was a 32 mile tailback today.I'm hoping to be far enough away from the sports day to avoid any traffic hassle. I'm not sure that Barnstaple will be quite far enough on the day of the opening ceremony though.

not at my regional site but in London and every single one a 1900- 0700 night shift! Tell them where to shove their shift then...

NutLoose

16th Jul 2012, 20:52

Yup, tell them where to shove it where the sun don't shine, because it won't be shining on you at 4 in the morning... Are they accommodating you?

In fact don't tell them, just do not turn up as that is not what you signed up for.

Fox3WheresMyBanana

16th Jul 2012, 21:05

There are at least 4 reports in the media where less than a quarter of staff have turned up. Given Bertie's tale, I think we can say why.

Stay home and watch it on the box Bertie.

Bertie Thruster

16th Jul 2012, 21:24

I've spent the last 3 days phoning the various G4S 'help lines' and being promised the 'Scheduling Dept' has been informed and will allocate me shifts at the regional site!

Somehow I don't think their 'system' will cope with this.

PS. Many more in my situation, according to the call centres.

Also many with all the ticks (accreditation, training, licence, id card, uniform) but no shifts allocated! Apparently some of these are simply turning up at venues and reporting to the duty security manager in order to get 'in the system'

G4S facebook page 'Securing London' full of tales of cock ups.

I'm giving it one more more day to get shifts at the venue I applied for. After that, I'm sorry to say, I'll be one of those 'selfish recruits' who failed to turn up for work.

Melchett01

16th Jul 2012, 21:25

iRaven - is it just me or are some of them wearing Flt Lt rank on their sleeve ?;)

Fox3WheresMyBanana

16th Jul 2012, 21:59

Forgive me, but I just have to post this link. I'm still snorting red wine as a consequence;)

NewBiscuit : ENTIRE OLYMPIC VILLAGE STOLEN IN LATEST SECURITY BREACH « Forum (http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=45445)

racedo

16th Jul 2012, 22:18

Fox

Were some Scousers in Brighton over weekend talking about heading back with some souvenirs from Down South....................Fcuk I though they were kidding.

racedo

16th Jul 2012, 22:21

Iraven

If rain keeps up you will see similar headgear in London, only this time heads with be Coppers underneath and using their heads as stepping stones perhaps.

500N

16th Jul 2012, 22:26

Fox

That is gold :ok::O:D

5 Forward 6 Back

17th Jul 2012, 16:13

I know we all feel bad for everyone involved, from the worst case of people losing holidays or PODL to the guys just facing some extra time in a horrible transit block in London.

However, I've noticed some people on other forums I frequent saying how glad they are that G4S have screwed up; because they'd much, much rather have the military acting as security than whatever dross G4S can dredge up with a terrible contract!

It's ridiculous, and in some situations it's totally disgraceful that the armed forces are doing this. But as a silver lining, from what I see, the public will be extremely glad to see someone in MTP acting as security rather than someone in a G4S uniform.

Well done to everyone doing their bit.

Dunky

17th Jul 2012, 16:39

I just received a call from G4S this afternoon requesting I email them scans of a couple of my military documents to show proof I'd been in for that period. They said they would send a blank email to me so I could send said documents. No email yet, so called them on the phone, fifteen minutes waiting to get the email address.

Of course my scanner would be U/S at the minute, so a trip to the library, where I found that my library card was out of date. Thankfully it wasn't G4S that issued me a new one.

Just to rub salt into the wound, I got an email from my unit requesting more personnel this afternoon. When several people from my unit have been mobilised for this, I don't think so. Either mobilise me or get stuffed. It makes a big difference to the money, ie mobilisation bounty, 14% rather than 5% x factor on the wages, leave etc. I'm not sweating my bollocks off for less money than someone else doing the same job.

Easy Street

17th Jul 2012, 17:44

But as a silver lining, from what I see, the public will be extremely glad to see someone in MTP acting as security rather than someone in a G4S uniform.

I disagree. I would rather see less security. The fact that we feel we need to hold QRA at a nearby airfield, have GBAD on tower blocks, and have airport-style security (complete with queues, 100ml liquids restriction so you have to buy your drinks at the sponsors' concessions inside, and the whole take-your-belt-off rigmarole) tells me something is wrong with our attitude to risk. In days gone by, even in the IRA era, this would have been done with some old-fashioned common-sense policing, some intelligence-led behind-the-scenes work and a bit of un-PC "profiling" of likely offenders (all of which, by the way, has worked very well for El Al over the years).

All this is a sign that our security policy is failing - the point of our overseas expeditions was supposed to be making us more secure at home, not needing to go through a full search to get into a sports event... so I would rather see some police, a small number of contractors, but no forces personnel on duty. In any case the Olympics is a crap target for a terrorist outrage - with so many nationalities around, the terrorists risk pissing off a random selection of countries, some of whom might actually be their friends. Only targeted Munich-style outrages would avoid that risk - and we haven't needed metal detectors at the Games for the last 40 years to prevent a repeat.

Ali Barber

17th Jul 2012, 20:57

Nothing to do with G4S, but I've just seen a picture of a soldier in London wearing camouflage uniform with a high visibility jacket over the top. Someone hasn't thought that through either!

Jayand

18th Jul 2012, 05:30

Am sure the publics relief at having military security will seem like a "silver lining" to the troops who just had their summer ruined!!!
You can have as much security as you like but you can almost guarantee there will be an attack in London, safer Country my arse!

Bertie Thruster

18th Jul 2012, 06:34

Jayand is correct. There's no point in trying to sweat yourself through a search facility into an Olympic venue when, to the rest of the world, "London" is the Olympics.

There's a completely unprotected massive shopping centre, with huge crowds, just a few steps from the main arena...............................................

Or Piccadilly Circus.......its all "London" and "London" IS the "the Olympics", as far as the 4 billion world audience is concerned.

Winco

18th Jul 2012, 06:47

Did anyone else watch that pathetic individual called Nick 'Bungle' Buckles at the select committee meeting yesterday? How on earth does someone so patently ignorant and out of his depth, get to a position of Chief Executive in a company like G4S?

It says it all really. When you have a fool like that running the show, it was (and is) always going to be a disaster. God help us! And what was it he said about 'plain English'? He didn't know if the meeting he had been attending was in Plain English?? I despair.

Further respect for all our Armed Forces. Well done to you all.
Winco

Hey Bungle, take a look at how the British Military do it. Learn from it and then $od off somewhere, anywhere away from these shores. You're not fit for purpose.

Bertie Thruster

18th Jul 2012, 07:39

There is also the problem now of hundreds of disenfranchised youngsters, who had been 100% relying on this course of work, armed with G4S uniform and LOCOG access passes but no work............and from the comments on various internet forums some of them are mighty p*ssed off..............................

A2QFI

18th Jul 2012, 09:47

Another problem seems to be an up to 50% "No Show" rate, caused either by G4S not sending emails to people telling them where to report and when or people can't be bothered to turn up. This gives police/military a very short notice problem. Big fails at the US team hotel in Birmingham and at a cycle race at Box Hill

airborne_artist

18th Jul 2012, 10:59

Things are clearly getting desperate - reports in the press (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/olympics/london-2012/9407220/London-2012-Armys-raw-recruits-may-be-called-up-to-fill-Olympic-gap.html) of the military planning to deploy soldiers straight from 26 weeks of basic training to Olympic duties. My guess is that they'd normally go on leave at that point? Hey ho.

sitigeltfel

18th Jul 2012, 11:16

NutLoose

18th Jul 2012, 11:32

Well I hope someone now realises how short the Services are having to send new recruits because the manpower no longer exists, top that off with the future cull of 20,000 and you then realise that we do not even have those available to cover a sporting event, let alone a tanker strike anymore.... And yet the Government still think we will be able to man the pumps with 20k less folks than they have now..

airpolice

18th Jul 2012, 11:36

Lefty, that's a bit harsh.

Imagine thinking that you are going to be working for a wee while. Then G4S fail to tell you where to report

So you don't earn any money, and now someone wants the DSS to stop your benefits because you didn't go to the job that didn't want you there.

Fox3WheresMyBanana

18th Jul 2012, 11:54

More of the Navy to be called up. The Olympic bigwigs in the Park Lane hotels are complaining about a shortage of male escorts......

airborne_artist

18th Jul 2012, 11:57

From what I have read the vast majority who want to work for G4S are not on benefits. They are students or the recently graduated, the semi-retired/retired and others who are between jobs but not formally job-seeking.

iglide

18th Jul 2012, 12:29

Up to 500 personnel to go from RAF Cosford:*.... in addition to those d**ked already.

baffman

18th Jul 2012, 13:50

Nothing to do with G4S, but I've just seen a picture of a soldier in London wearing camouflage uniform with a high visibility jacket over the top. Someone hasn't thought that through either!

Not an unusual sight. There isnt a special uniform for a soldier to change into, out of MTP, when required to wear a hi vis jacket.

NutLoose

18th Jul 2012, 13:58

Seen on a well known Auction site :E Someone is quick off the mark

http://i.ebayimg.com/t/GROUP-4-SECURITY-ANTI-OLYMPICS-LONDON-2012-COOL-T-SHIRT-/00/s/OTAwWDkwMA==/$T2eC16d,!yUE9s6NFmyCBQBr4QD4Vw~~60_3.JPG

cornish-stormrider

18th Jul 2012, 14:07

nutters - like it.
can't wait to see what the boys come up with, I expect a few unofficial ones will find their way out there.

Bertie Thruster

18th Jul 2012, 15:02

Re all those who have been recruited and failed to turn up. Many of them will have been recruited from the ranks of the unemployed, and I hope G4S lets the dole office know so that their benefits can be stopped.

Everyone I met during this voyage into lunacy, who had been previously unemployed, had signed off before attending training. (as the training days would be paid days.....but paid only when at least 5 shifts had been completed)

But if no one contacts you after your training or you are "Number 96 in the queue" on a call to the call centre that's costing you money by the minute

Yes it is sh*t for the guys dragged in off leave but there are 1000's out there who had put their lives on hold (and off the dole) since Feb/March waiting for non existant emails and phone calls. This debacle is entirely the fault of G4S management. But of course it will be the dick at the end of the stick that gets the blame.

Bertie Thruster

18th Jul 2012, 15:11

At least for some it gave the chance to get on the Team:

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i97/nmhsu/th_IntheTeam.jpg (http://s70.photobucket.com/albums/i97/nmhsu/?action=view&current=IntheTeam.jpg)

langleybaston

18th Jul 2012, 15:39

26 weeks and not ready to deploy? That was the normal period for a regular soldier in 1913. As 1914 was ending, this was cut to 13 weeks.

After 26 weeks training I would hope [and am sure] a soldier could do all a G4S candidate could do, and better.

Not ideal, but I know who I would prefer handling my security!

ExRAFRadar

18th Jul 2012, 19:28

Must admit I felt a tad confused about all this security. I thought the whole purpose of our people in Afghanistan was to make this country secure. Take the fight to the enemy and all that.

Why cant we reel Blair and his people in front of some committee and ask them what the sacrifice was all for if we still need 10K troops on the street and Missiles on the ground.

Is it just me, or does the country seem to be going to the dogs, run as it as by lackeys of the banks, living off inherited money.

Lima Juliet

18th Jul 2012, 20:07

ExRAFRadar

The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

Sir Winston Churchill

Says, it all really. However, given the vintage of the quote it is a problem that has been a long time coming...:(

LJ

reynoldsno1

18th Jul 2012, 23:42

How on earth does someone so patently ignorant and out of his depth, get to a position of Chief Executive in a company like G4S?

Get used to it - you have had a glimpse of the future ...

500N

19th Jul 2012, 02:42

At this rate the UK won't have anyone left to defend the UK.

"Border staff threaten strike chaos before Olympics

Thousands of immigration staff at airports and ports could walk out next week, causing chaos before the Olympics."

It's becoming a real life version of Faulty Towers !

NutLoose

19th Jul 2012, 02:52

The deployment would take the total military presence to 19,000, twice the 9,500 in Afghanistan.

That's the 20,000 we soon won't have and over 10% of those we have now!!!
What a farce... The world is laughing at us and quite rightly too, i wonder what they would have done post the 20k cuts? :ugh:

Suprised Cameron hasn't contacted the French and used his closer "cooperation" in all things Military to put the Foreign Legion on car Parking duties..

:ugh: :ugh:

Fewer troops fight the Taliban than guard the London Olympics | The Sun |News|Politics (http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/4437524/Fewer-troops-fight-the-Taliban-than-guard-the-London-Olympics.html)