Emirates going with DEC

[White Knight]

So White Knight, I know you have been around for some time.

After your previous post; did you feel important? Or were you just giving in to your narcisism.

Why would EK be in the need of some contract TRE's?

How many pictures did you take of yourself on your black horse?

A) I have indeed been around here for some time.

B) Feel important? Sorry fellah; just passing on what I heard from those I know in EK pilot recruitment!!!!

C) I didn't say anything about TREs. That was in the 'quote' that I was responding to.

D) I don't ride; ergo I don't have a black horse; ergo I haven't taken any pictures of myself on it:ugh::ugh::ugh:

Now please PUA, read the posts and try and understand them! And no more stupid private messages please:=

[gardenshed]

Now the fun really starts, looks like any training qualified Capts will be offered not only DEC, but positions within the training dept. it's self.

[Dropp the Pilot]

It's more interesting than that. The reason that we required DECs is that our current crop of line pilots is too lazy. Read for yourself just above M&M's signature on the training letter.

[SubsonicMortal]

What letter are you referring to?

[yoyonow]

Shock horror...........Like this hasn't happened before.

Take a look at the 310 out of service plan!

[glofish]

Oh dear MM, you just blew all the credit we gave you!

Blaming the line pilots of being lazy, not wanting to apply as TRI/E and take another shafting by dismal conditions, by a dreadful bidding system, by a even more crap e-swap, yes, blaming the line pilots working in excess of 90h for the need to get DECs, most importantly training astronauts, is extremely low!

At least now you routed part of the anger of the bypassed FOs onto the line captains!! Smart move, but without looking too much into the future. The new trainers will be met with even more contempt, now by FOs AND Captains and all of MMs good training work (yes it was very good) just goes down the drain.

I guess he has finally adapted to EK and DXB.

[DesertHawk]

Just curious... how can u blame a line pilot for not wanting to commit more of his time to train? logically would it not the companies responsibility to make the position attractive enough to be able to pick and choose the most qualified and MOTIVATED people? i don't know i could not resist but state something i think is obvious

[Pitch Up Authority]

Putting DEC straight into training is to make all DEC feel welcome and give them the support they will need. It will provide more integrity and reduce the gossip that will otherwise infect the system.

It may also reduce the number of incompetent asslickers that get into the system.

[Wizofoz]

They aren't putting them straight into training, but they are recruiting guys earmarked to go into training after the minimum amount of time on line.

Desert Hawk,

The comment wasn't that there is something wrong with line pilots for not wanting to train, but simply that as not enough guys want to, there really can't be too many complaints about recruiting guys who do.

Of course, making the role more attractive to existing pilots might ALSO have been an option, but..err..who do,we work for again??:hmm:

[fatbus]

In the eyes of the disgruntled EK FO's everything EK does is wrong. Personally I'm getting a bit bored with these pilots who think they are entitled to an upgrade, if you look back at some of those who complained the most you will find that most failed and failed badly. MM said all those that meet the Min's will have a chance at upgrade, if you blow it down blame training blame yourself. You say you are ready than it should be no problem

[DesertHawk]

wiz... not sure but someone ,mentioned lazy line pilots. thats what got me going. I just think that people don't seem to realize for SOME of us flying is our job and our lives are what we do outside this crazy world of airplanes. sometimes not doing training or something that is time consuming has nothing to do with work ethics but to do with personal happiness:ok: i still think EK should make the job attractive enough so the average line guy wants it!

[glofish]

There's a point there, I mean the one with the assessment procedures.

- You join after undergoing the psycho stuff and grilling.
- You upgrade after going through the same mill again.
- You join training after having to pick up soap for the same armchair team a third time ...

But the new DECs joining training will only have to endure that torture once!

Has anyone ever raised the question if the too big failure rate of upgrades and the too small number of training applicants originates right there with the EK psycho team?

Once is enough, for DECs and for normal line pilots.
Maybe more buddies pass the upgrade because they're less demoralized and more captains join training because they don't have to bow to some morons again. Result:
No need for DECs and we could save some money by reducing the psycho team.

[glofish]

Note to yourself: Stop reading PPrune, that pleases all.

[Swan Man]

Who is considering joining Emirates as an FO? I can't imagine anyone with any kind of self esteem wanting to have their command further delayed by DECs.
On the same note what makes the QF joiners think they are going to pass the selection at Emirates this time around? No one has Qatar as their first choice so that means they probably failed in their attempts to get into Ek the first time around. And they think they are going to pass this time?
We all know Emirates is very desperate but not that desperate.
Good luck

[Mr.White]

Hi there!!!

I was wondering whats the CV ( age and TTime ) of the standard EK Capt. and FO as well.

On the other hand, whats the age of the youngest EK B777 Capt and TTime.

Best regards

[Patty747400]

"Who is considering joining Emirates as an FO?"

I guess anybody who wants a good job with the fastest time to a wide body command of all airlines today.

Why did you take it? Did Qatar turn you down?

[Swan Man]

Who says EK is a good airlines Patty? Never mind we know what airline you are flying at and I am sure Emirates looks like a good airline to you and your experience.
Never applied to Qatar thank God. Emirates is bad enough. You probably think even QF is a good airline.

[Patty747400]

Swan Man

Sorry but you're pathetic. You're trashing every other airline and their crews. Only you and EK are good enough... and still you are complaining about the people that would apply to EK....

If you think EK is crap then leave, find the other airline that gives you a command faster (if any) and live a nice life.

Please tell us when you find your nirvana...

[helen-damnation]

Taking DEC trainers (elect) is an admission of defeat.

For whatever reason, MM can't make the job attractive enough for those in the company to want to do it. Personally, it's about the lifestyle. The extra money would be handy but something better than min days off and being forced to end up a TRI/TRE would make a big difference. (I know they say you can stay TRI-AO for a while but they still expect you to go the whole hog eventually).

[Swan Man]

Patty you and your lot just aren't worth it. Look what you have done to the industry. You think EK is a good job. Now that is pathetic!
No wonder, you could never get a good job like at AF, BA, LH, AA, DL, QF and now you want to jump the line at Emirates. You couldn't get hired at a real airline and now you want to jump the line at a middle of the road airline.
You couldn't pass the 1st time around what makes you think you will pass this time around?

[Poire]

Speaking of the devil ... have they hired any DECs yet?
DECs or newly upgraded captains are a workload for the F/os just the same:-)

[GoreTex]

they hired a bunch of DEC's on the airbus I was told, that means 330 forever as there will be no more transition from 330 to the 380 soon.

[Poire]

Sorry to hear that, if you are in the Airbus.
But, again, this is EK and things can change quicker than the weather in Seattle or Melbourne.

[MagicCarpet]

...no more transition from 330 to the 380 soon.

Noooooooooo. . . . . :{

[Easy Ryder]

First DEC interviews this week

Prioritising Ex EK Crew and TRI/TRE's

Apparently over 1000 applications

150 DEC's this coming financial year which wont affect FO upgrades :hmm:

They will be put through the entire Command course. So training is min 35 days.

Selection is going to apparently be much tougher than the previous intake for DECs

[offroad7]

Well with over 1000 applications and only 150 to pick - it will be cherry picking time. Those that get through will have to work hard but they will deserve the position once they pass the line check.

[Alconguin Crusader]

No DEC deserves the position especially since Emirates does not need DECs and they severly disadvantage the hard working FOs here.
Originally only 50 DECs and now 150? And this is not going to disadvantage any FO? You can't be that delusional!

[GoreTex]

Show me one EK FO that hasn't been screwed by some policy changes over the last 6 years, I haven't met one so far.

[THR MCT]

Always wondered how EK managed to survive all this time with such a stupid policy of only upgrading FO .:ugh:
With a huge number of plane on order sooner or later they had to come back to the old habit like the competitor neighbors.

As a Capt on the B777 with more than 3500h on type If I decide to join EK I will have to do it on the right seat an wait for all the FO to complete their upgrades before I can move back to the left seat woooh.

Who ever managed to sell a stupid idea like this to Emirates in this highly competitive market, for such a long time must be very very good.:ok:

Congratulation,

[allaru]

They survived by upgrading FOs with a minimum of 3000hrs on type, usually many more, with a proven track record, and unlike DECs joining us from outside, a good level of exposure to a network that most other airlines who operate and handfull of 777s would never have seen. Oh and one more thing, our FOs have operated just about every varient of 777 that exists, not just one or two.

Don't get me wrong I think we need all the pilots we can get, but many a so called experienced 777 qualified pilot has come here and flunked, some have been outright dangerous...our FOs are highly experienced, well trained and competent, so if your coming here as a DEC don't make the mistake of thinking that you’ll breeze through just because you have a bit of time on type.

[Dropp the Pilot]

Who ever managed to sell a stupid idea like this to Emirates in this highly competitive market, for such a long time must be very very good

Why, thank-you - you are altogether too, too kind.

[Swan Man]

My old airline received a new airplane every 10 days for almost 3 years. We hired over 4000 pilots in 6 years time and never had to compromise training or even think about DECs. They would have had their legs broken anyway if DECs came on the property.
Why do some pilots think with this "huge" delivery schedule we have to hire DECs at Emirates? We have plenty of qualifed and deserving FOs already on the property.
It is not a big deal to upgrade the FOs already here and hire new FOs to take their place.
150 DECs will delay the upgrades for the FOs here by at least 1 1/2 years.

[captainsmiffy]

Command upgrade...what upgrade? Came out 5 years back with an expectation of a return to the LHS in 3 years. Have been screwed by so many rule changes that I believe that I might be eligible for a shot after 8 (eight) years! This is actually the reality for many here in EK. (12000 hours plus and a decade in command previously, BTW, albeit in a/c below 55 tonnes). Not getting any younger, either, so might be needing to rethink my career plans......

[Capt. Flamingo]

I was driving two days ago around 1800 and heard on the news (92.0FM): "Emirates Airline will start hiring Captains instead of upgrading First officers from within the company" (or something among those lines) followed by some words of Katherine Ferguson saying that the reason is because of the slow down in hires during the 2008 crisis bla bla bla.

I wonder how come this is news for anyone that is not in EK, or maybe a secret message to all of the UAE skippers? lol.

Happy trails

[helen-damnation]

Good post LR3.

It ain't all bad, but all that glitters isn't gold.

CAVEAT EMPTOR :ooh:

[millerscourt]

Or even glisters:D

[donpizmeov]

Millerscourt,

Don't let this retirement gig dull your mind. Willy was only misquoting Tommy Becon's earlier "All is not golde that glistereth" when he used that line filler. Tommy writes about Rome, Willy comes out a few decades later with some tale about Venice. No wonder everyone was waiting for TV to be invented.

Sorry for the distraction, back to DECs etc etc etc.

The Don

[millerscourt]

The Don

Perhaps you should be renamed The Prof?:cool:

Anyway back to DEC as suggested by The Prof. I have been one in three outfits and I can thoroughly recommend it. Has never worried me what any F/O might think about it as most blame the company and not the individual DEC.

[White Knight]

First DEC interviews this week

Prioritising Ex EK Crew and TRI/TRE's



Prioritising?

Same hoops as the rest so I hear:bored::bored: At least the ex-EK skippers...

[Pitch Up Authority]

It looks like you have to be a moron to join EK, be it as a DEC or FO.

And lets face it, the requirements to get an ATPL have declined dramatically over the last 15 years.

If you stay in a airline that treats you like **** .... chances are that you are a piece of ....

[Trader]

xwind--I think most, reasonable, people would agree with you!!

In the end the discussion about DEC's has to be more specific. A DEC coming off a 777/330/340 should be able to transition fairly easily. He knows the aircraft and only has to transition to new SOP's, EK highly variable route network and the multitude of nationalities that he will work with (which can be challenging).

While I don't like the idea of DEC's and, as a captain, it doesn't affect me I hope they bring in experienced typed pilots.

I do, however, take issue with the viewpoint that some hold that because they are a captain on a 737 in Europe that they feel qualified to captain a 777 on EK's network. In my opinion, and it is only an opinion, that is pushing the bounds what is realistic.

A DEC on a new type, in this environment, with all the issues mentioned above is simply asking for something to happen.

From what I hear they do only plan to bring in experienced currently typed captains--I hope they stick to the plan.

[Bunktime]

Excellent post THR MCT.....:D:D:D(#311).
Great facts xwind16.
And yes.....they ARE sticking to plan trader!
All in all, its a company requirment and we can all moan and groan here, but they're gonna do what they're gonna do. And its not something either of us has control over.
By the way, what's the water situation yonder in the desert ..

[Mentor_Minister]

Very well thought out post. Insightful analysis. In any regular airline, FO's transition from smaller aircraft to bigger aircraft, come back down to the smaller aircraft to get a command, hone their command skills and transition back to the bigger fleet.
Whilst that is not possible in EK, because they dont have smaller aircraft, it doesnt mean EK FO's are any better than the others in the industry.
As I have observed, a lot of them come from smaller regional carriers (stop taking pictures of meal trays to send back to your buddies:), I know your old airlines didnt serve "proper meals", or had crockery!!) , and are still able to transition onto a bigger aircraft and fly the global network. DEC whether from smaller aircraft or smaller airlines can still transition.
Proper Training, proper preparation, adequate resources, and a high sense of professionalism will make this possible.

[BigGeordie]

"Proper Training, proper preparation, adequate resources, and a high sense of professionalism will make this possible."

This is true, but you missed out the most important thing- recruiting the right people in the first place. This seems to be where Emirates fell down with the last round of DECs. No disrespect to the recruitment guys- you can only hire the people who apply. Hopefully things will be better this time.

[nakbin330]

The last round of DECs?

All ex 744, mostly.