Windows 8

[green granite]

What a good job it's a leap year, On Feb. 29, Microsoft will reportedly release a Consumer Preview of the beta version of Windows 8.

[Loose rivets]

Rivetess' computer - and indeed mine - need W7, but would putting the W8 Beta on a fairly powerful laptop be worth it? The W7 RC ran well for some months, and I was offered a great deal on upgrading to a licensed copy at the end.

With a month to go, they ran out.:{

But are such offers common? I'd love to get rid of Vista on both laptops, but again, having an OS that's tailored for hand-held devices might be a PITA. Is it too early to tell?

[mixture]

Loose rivets,

Install Windows 7 and use it look up the definition of the word Beta in the context of IT before rushing out to install it on a laptop you actually do real work on. :cool:

[bnt]

It's here: Windows 8 Consumer Preview ISO formats (http://windows.microsoft.com/en-GB/windows-8/iso)

I'm going to try it tomorrow, in a virtual machine first, then as an upgrade to my laptop if I like it.

[Spurlash2]

45 minutes to download the ISO, 10 mins to burn to a DVD, then 20 minutes to install to its own partition, with just 2 reboots, and 65 MB of updates.

Access to existing OS's for files etc.
Some good 'Apps', if that floats your boat.
Memory and CPU useage noticeably less than the Vista comp this is on.
No VM install as CPU is cheeeeep:O
IE10 is great.

Long live Powershell, cmd.exe is dead (http://www.computerperformance.co.uk/win8/index.htm)!

Initial impression? Instant useability with the tiles, and a reassuring Desktop if all else fails.

Next event; the 64bit version for the Win7 laptop.

PS. You don't need a touchscreen.

[Loose rivets]

I had a really good experience with W7 RC. I suppose most of the angst had been filtered out of it by that late stage. I certainly wouldn't have wanted to go back to XP.



Good idea about dual boot. It'll buy an escape route.


I have C D & E logical drives, with no Recover intrusion on this Sony VIAO, and has been set up to have programs on drive D. Probably a bad mistake, as I'm assuming I'll need a clean and preferably formatted drive for a second OS.

Can't think of anything, but can anyone see a problem in using drive D for W8?

Oh, dear. :( Just looked at New Explorer Ribbon Layout in the link. Now I know my tired old brain just can not put up with that.

My 3 explorers, plural ( well, one really) are set up on the task bar with the aiming point set in properties. At one touch, I'm in Photos, or my WP working folder. The new system looks sexy, but the old one is under control. Mind you, that annoying habit of the tree jumping to a new position still drives me nuts.

[green granite]

Oh what fun it is took me ages to work out how to get back to the startup page :ugh: having sorted that out and now switched to 'desktop' things are slightly more manageable intuitively. that said it's very fast and after I manage to get my head around customizing it I'll be happy.......I think.

[le Pingouin]

bnt, in Virtualbox make sure you enable PAE/NX:

Settings > System > Processor, select "Enable PAE/NX"

or you'll get:

Your PC needs to be repaired
An unexpected error has occured
Error 0xc0000260

[rgbrock1]

Loose:

If you really want to try out Win 8 I would strongly suggest not installing it to any partition on any hard drive.

What I would suggest is download Oracle's Virtualbox (it's free), install it and then install the beta of Win 8. This way, the only thing it could fry is the VM instance.

[vulcanised]

Can it be downloaded to and run from a USB stick?

Ideally, I would like to put it on the seldom used Toshiba Satellite 4600 but I doubt that has the oomph necessary.

[mixture]

Can it be downloaded to and run from a USB stick?

hahaha... you're joking right ?

Surely you've used Windows ? You know what it's like in terms of resource utilisation. That said, I wouldn't even try to run a non-cutdown version of Linux off a USB stick either.

Do you honestly think the throughput over USB will be sufficient to enable Windows to run ?

There's a reason why it has been an unsupported configuration in all historic versions of Windows and will no doubt continue to be so.

As rgbrock said, install virtualisation software and run it on there.

[riverrock83]

Unless you've upgraded it from what's on here:
Satellite Pro 4600 (http://www.toshiba-europe.com/computers/products/notebooks/satellitepro4600/index.htm)
It wont have enough RAM to run so not worth trying. Chances are it would also be in some sort of reduced graphics mode too.

I'd say though - if something will run vista, it will probably run windows 7 / 8. I successfully installed win 7 on my 7 year old tablet PC which had win xp tablet edition on it (till the hard disk crashed with no rescue disk) and it works a treat - faster than what it was on XP. I did upgrade it to 1.5GB RAM but even so...

[Mike-Bracknell]

I stuck it in a VM today. Initial thoughts are that useability is high if you want to do the tasks on the squares, but I had to search and search for the shutdown command, and couldn't find how to enter the control panel without typing "control panel" in the search. The hidden corners thing is a bit rubbish too. Am going to be a bit sad if CMD is gone though.

[green granite]

There is the option to download it to disc then burn it to a memory stick or dvd as an ISO, you'll need a 3Gig memstick, but you will still need to install it to the hard drive, I haven't tried it (I installed it on a separate partition) but you can just update an existing windows installation and it will talk you through it.

Not bring a user of small mobile devices It took me awhile to get my head around the concept of just moving things out of the way when you're finished with them and it took a while to work out how to get past the splash screen at the start and into the log in screen.

It is very fast with screens opening instantly and so far it's only crashed once, this was after it had put itself to sleep and about half an hour later it suddenly said "I've encountered a problem and will have to reboot" which it did ok.

Don't think much of I.E.10 but I opinion may change after I've used it a bit more, FireFox 10 runs without any problems.

Edited to add: It appears to be using about 720 Meg of ram which seems very good.

[bnt]

I have it running in a VM too. The command prompt is still there and working fine. I have two major apps that I need to work, and they seem fine, so I may just go ahead and upgrade my laptop with it next week.

I'm not really after the "bling", but for a while I've been reading about the work that's been going on under the skin to make it more stable and efficient e.g. this (http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2012/02/07/improving-power-efficiency-for-applications.aspx). There are some people working on Windows 8 who are a bit tired of the "bloated" reputation Windows has had over the years.

One handy keyboard shortcut I've found so far: Win+X brings up a quick "power user" menu with essentials such as Control Panel, Explorer, command prompts (normal & Admin), Task Manager, & more. Other Win7 shortcuts work too e.g. Win+L to lock the console.

[bnt]

I had a bit of time today, so I upgraded my "big" W7 laptop using the in-place method: run the upgrade program, let it do all its checks and downloads, then wait a couple of hours while it grinds away. It went smoothly enough, no problems in the process. The only installed application that had to be removed was Microsoft's own Defender anti-virus, probably because the process installs its own version of that. Apart from that everything else works, it's pretty much the same under the skin.

The default is to link your user account to Microsoft's Windows Live service, and synchronize user settings between computers that way, but you can turn that off and log in as a "local user", under Control Panel / Users. I only have one Windows computer, so I have no need for "single sign-on" of that sort.

I'll report back if I find anything interesting. :8

[Spurlash2]

ZDnet have a good article by Ed Bott on how it all works; with pictures!

HERE. (http://www.zdnet.com/blog/bott/windows-8-consumer-preview-a-fresh-start-for-microsoft/4540)

Lots more pics HERE, (http://www.techrepublic.com/photos/first-look-windows-8-consumer-preview-simple-and-slick/6348068)at Tech Republic.

[gas path]

Thanks for the heads up on Oracle VM. Now running Win8.:8
First impressions...useable but the tiles to me appear a bit 'tacky'. Suppose i'll get used to it. Maybe I need to tinker with the display settings but I'll leave that until tomorrow.
pprune works ok in IE10.:ok:

[gas path]

Der! A right click was all it needed to find all the other 'bits' and make it more presentable!

[green granite]

Hmmmmmm, there's a post on the Windows 8 forum suggesting that, according to a 'leaked' road map, Windows 9 beta will be released at the beginning of 2014 and the RC in November of that year. This is giving rise to the thought that W 8 is the "Vista version" for Windows 9.

[Spurlash2]

I reckon the Start button needs to come back. 2 clicks gives me all this from anywhere. Metro will be fine for a touch device, but for a working day (or night!) it needs that Orb.

Having said that, though, Win 8 is very fast.


http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd247/spurlash2/Startbuttonresize.jpg

[gas path]

Right, I've done playing with it. How does one get rid of it? I dont see Win8 in the add/remove. So is it just a case of uninstalling Oracle VM and then searching for the left overs?

[Keef]

I installed it on a spare partition, with dual-boot Win7 or Win8.

I think it was designed for a touch-screen (iPad-like). Finding the "start" button is a faff, whereas I suspect swiping might work. I don't have a touch-screen monitor so can't try that.

It didn't seem any faster than Win 7. I set up Thunderbird and Firefox, pointing at the same "Mail" partition Win 7 uses, and it seemed quite able to handle that.

After a few hours tinkering, without installing MS Office or any other added software, I couldn't see anything it does better than Win 7. I didn't check all the peripherals for drivers/function, but the ones I tried worked OK.

When I was running the Win 7 pre-release versions, I soon stopped using XP and switched to Win 7. I can't see me doing that with Win 8.

When I switched back from 8 to 7 last night, all the hard drives/partitions were marked "dirty" and I had to wait for chkdsk to work through them all.

[Bushfiva]

I'm using it on a multi-point touchscreen and it's pretty good.

[le Pingouin]

gas path, in Oracle VM right click on the listing for the VM in question (the VM must be shut down), then Remove > Delete all files.

[gas path]

@le Pingouin

Many thanks for that.:ok:

[Dark Knight]

Tried it and it lasted for 2 weeks before returning to Windows7.
Unistalling required using the installation disk and returning the image whereupon all my programs worked OK.

MS; Just have to change for the sake of change. It is a computer operating system not a phone or Tablet; a system with programs for productivity and ease of use. We do not need, with with every upgrade, to have to go searching for things we have setup or have been using successfully through sevaral versions of Windows.

Start menu is just fine, the silly corner to get to the Tab page a right pain: I do not know how many times I have opened Excel just becaues it is near that corner. Then when I want to shutdown or find options, etc I have to fiddle around the right hand side or find a corner to have the choices appear.

The apps thing is corney and unattractive, give me icons which mean something anyday and then when I click to find all apps there are pages of apps relating to app help, app some other program, etc; a myriad of useless information.

Working with a number of friends still using XP, Vista they have a screen full of icons often with several shortcuts to the same program or MS word document, etc and are pleased & grateful someone can sort it out for them; they will be totally lost with the app thingy.

Then selecting and installing the apps; well some just did not work and after years spending time sorting out Windows & programs I have no desire to do it again & again.

Several programs used through XP, Vista & Win7 did not work, e.g. my label printer; checked it was installed correctly, `this is working correctly'; bulldust! Windows 8 says the printer in an `error mode'. Following reinstallation of Win7 it worked first time with no problems.

I am still trying to come to grips with the MS Ofice 2007 ribbon thingy spending countless minutes looking for things I once knew where they were and nowe ending up searching, searching?

Ok, I realise this is a Beta version but too much did not work and is change just for the sake of change.

Unless Microsoft have a big rethink about where they are going I will not be upgrading for a long time Windows 7 might be like XP which many people & companies are still using productively.

[seacue]

Unless MS came out with "new" "better" (mostly just "different" human interface) versions of their software and operating system every three years or so, people wouldn't "upgrade". Soon there would be a lot of empty buildings in Redmond.

[bnt]

Well, I bought this notebook a year ago, and it came with Windows 7, so I had no serious qualms about trying Windows 8 on it. It's OK so far, no serious problems and only a couple of niggles. I had all my data backed up anyway, but the upgrade went smoothly and I didn't need to restore or reinstall anything.

In the long term for this laptop, however, Windows will be coming off and Linux going on. Windows 7/8 is only acceptable because it's a powerful machine (Intel Core i5, 4GB RAM), and I have a few Windows applications that I need to work flawlessly for the next couple of months.

[bnt]

A real user tries Windows 8:

v4boTbv9_nU

[green granite]

A very good example of how intuitive the windows 8 interface is. :D

[green granite]

For anyone who would like to try using W 8 in a virtual M/C but is unsure how to this is an excellent guide: Series: Step by step: How to safely test-drive Win8 « Windows Secrets (http://windowssecrets.com/newsletter/step-by-step-how-to-safely-test-drive-win8/)

[Capn Bloggs]

"They trying to drive me to Mac?". Classic. :D

[seacue]

Microsoft has wrought drastic changes in the human interface to Windows and Office products over the past few years.

I suspect that this leads casual users to seriously consider a MAC when getting a new computer. Going to new versions of Windows would also require a lot of (re)learning.

I regularly meet people who have switched to a MAC. MAC owners are often evangelical about their "toy".

I'm sticking with the past (XP) as long as possible.

[FullOppositeRudder]

I'm sticking with the past (XP) as long as possible.

Me too. Having started with the TRS80 model I, and having tried almost every OS since that time (including Commodore64), the thought of having to learn yet another operating system with no demonstrable advantages in my casual usage does not excite at all.

And having had to wrestle with Vista systems belonging to friends, and also at our local church on an ongoing basis, my resolve is strengthened every time I am forced to do so. :{

[E.Z. Flyer]

In the early days of aviation many pilots simply hopped in and took off in their first efforts of learning to fly. Instruction was literally on the ground. Pre-flight, wind check and go.

W8 Consumer Preview expects as much. The video referenced omits one key element of instruction as to liken in early days of flight regarding the throttle. It is in the lower left corner where the Start frame has always been located.

From there on, it is a powerful upgrade to perhaps a laptop that's seen its better days, or fast becoming obsolete. The Consumer Preview is good to use until Jan. 2013.

For a developer now is a good time to learn what the "tiles" are about.

Where, in Google Chrome, the "app tiles" are not as dynamic. Might look the same or seem easier, but the "app tiles" in W8, are integral to the OS and when active become resident in the system for executable instruction when data is sent or received. So that, as an event notification changes on the screen along where all your other tiles are placed. Information that is updated in real time is viewed within the frame space of the tile. A large tile is 30x150 pixels and may be programmed to display text, image, either of which information is always streamed through, unless clicked upon. The start page might have 10 or more tiles displayed. Links to web pages, temperatures, time, indices, web cams, email notification, or social media updates, or however any app installed uses the system to perform the task assigned.

The start window is only what the user "pins" on it. In a touch screen environment the window is a "snap" screen. Without the touch screen capability the mouse pointer is used to locate the hidden windows a snap screen is designed to reveal when touched.

There is quite a bit to learn because the resources of the computer are being used to a greater extent than ever before.

:ok:

[Capn Bloggs]

What did he say?? :{

[vulcanised]

Go around?