Small airports, big security hassles

[Self Loading Freight]

Last yyear, I was returning to Edinburgh from Lerwick, and had a pebble confiscated from my hand luggage. It was a nice pebble, not very big, and I did ask what particular rule it contravened. I was told, rather unpleasantly, that pebbles over a certain size were not allowed, and this one was just over.

Common sense says don't react to snarky security, and never ask more than one question if they're not playing ball, so on I went.

Now I read that other Scottish island airports are getting a rep for over-zealous security (http://www.scotsman.com/news/odd/security_galore_hits_island_s_airport_1_2099038), with Islay in particular turning into something from an Ealing Comedy.

I don't want to revive the tired old security theatre arguments again. But have other users of the HIAL airports found them OTT even by modern standards?

[Ernest Lanc's]

Common sense says an oversize pebble may not be as it seems..That's probably why it was confiscated.

Palma can be worse that that - My wide bought a souvenirs that contained a liquid - Not only was it took, she suffered verbals..A male gave it her back after close scrutiny and realising it was bought in Majorca,
For some reason I always seem to get frisked, or my bag searched at BLK - Who cares?..Better a little inconvenience that being blown out of the sky.
I would be more worried if the security was lax.

[Standard Noise]

Common sense says an oversize pebble may not be as it seems..
Isn't an oversize pebble a rock?

My experience of a certain Belfast airport is quite the opposite.

Well, don't get too excited, Aldergrove and City are both as bad as each other security wise, it's depressing going home or more to the point, trying to come back this way.

[TDK mk2]

I was operating out of Stornoway, and had poped into the station office to say hello. On the way out through security the security 'manager' proudly showed me a gun she had confiscated from one of our passengers. It had come from a christmas cracker, which should give you some idea of it's size, was coloured and would have fired a (tiny) stream of water!

I laughed and offered to take it and give it back to the passenger at the end of the flight and this, predictably, went down rather badly.

[Ernest Lanc's]

Standard Noise

No - A small stone not unlike a pebble would be next in the pecking order.

[Aero Mad]

They get it just right at Alderney - a couple of very kind people who check through bags uniformly.

At Guernsey, however... one woman going back up to Alderney was carrying a goldfish in a large polythene bag and had to persuade them not to put it through the x-ray machine. They're awful there.

[egnxema]

Would a small boulder be a large pebble?

[handsfree]

Oh well, here goes :-

256 mm diameter : Boulder
64 to 256 mm dia : Cobble
4 to 64 mm dia : Pebble
2 to 4 mm dia : Gravel
1/16 to 2 mm dia : Sand
1/256 to 1/16 mm : Silt
1/256 : Clay

Sediment Description (http://www.geology.sdsu.edu/classes/geol552/seddescription.htm)

[Haven't a clue]

In 2004 I took a house brick through Manchester without any problem.

(And should you want to know why it was a sample of reclaimed Victorian engineering brick for an extension to my Victorian brick house)

[Honeybuzzard]

When flying out to Scilly from penzance on Skybus in October 2001, they took away my Swiss army knife, put in in an envelope which was placed on the co-pilot's seat in the Islander - I was satin the seat behind the pilot!
Also again on my way to Scilly (I am a keen Birder) on the chopper this time, I was told on board by the cabin crew ladyI could'nt drink from the water bottle I produced from my pocket, on returning it to said pocket I felt my clasp knife, which I thought prudent not to mention!
St Mary's airport is a cracking place... Once saw a pilot land his twin otter, saunter over to the ground crew, who were practicing their putting, and have a few goes himself.
Don't see that at Heathrow!

[fa2fi]

Teesside. Definately small these days and consistently unpleasant whether passing thru the terminal as pax or gaining access at the gatehouse to the apron. Vile.

[The SSK]

one woman going back up to Alderney was carrying a goldfish in a large polythene bag

I suppose Guernsey to Alderney would fall outside EU rules? Otherwise they should have let her keep the goldfish but confiscated the water...

[wawkrk]

Is a small pebble more dangerous than a bottle of whiskey then?

[The SSK]

Is a small pebble more dangerous than a bottle of whiskey then?
We're not talking about small pebbles here. That was made clear right at the beginning.

There was a well-publicised incident at Newcastle a couple of years ago when a passenger had a portion of pease pudding confiscated, it was thought to fall into the 'liquids and gels' category.

[scotbill]

The security at Hebridean airports would indeed border on the farcical were it not for the distressing effect on many passengers (not just the elderly and infirm) in situations where many are known to the staff.
Personally I will even brave the Calmac crossings in the depth of winter rather than subject myself to the indignities perpetrated by the jobsworths. Their excuse is that they never know when there might be a random inspection going on.
Quite frankly I do not believe that a terrorist would find it worthwhile in publicity value to target a Saab 340. Certainly that was the philosophy in New Zealand four years ago when the security screening in small airports was much more relaxed.
But then there is no place in the Bureaucratic Handbook for common sense. Mindless security is not good security.

[smith]

All the more reason to have just as stringent security at smaller airports.

If terrorists were to believe that security was lax at small airports and they could quite easily overpower a small turboprop aircraft and fly it into a large building, trust me it would make headlines around the world.

[Ernest Lanc's]

All the more reason to have just as stringent security at smaller airports.


I agree - I have been inconvenienced at BLK as as my wife and daughter - Who cares if it keeps us safe.

My last contribution to the pebble debate. Pebbles come in all sizes, being pretty is not a reason for it not being confiscated..Example where would it end. a piece of coal polished would look pretty, do we let big lumps of coal though security which like a pebble could have been altered and could contain explosive.would not take much of an explosion at 30,000 feet to bring down an airliner,
My opinion is let the security people get on with their jobs and keep us safe in the air.

Another thing at smaller airports are like at BLK - Spoilers to stop terminals being rammed - I don't like the front of Blackpool airport, but I would like even less being rammed with a car full of explosives, while I was having a pint.
We live in dangerous times and we have to put up with inconvenience, if it keeeps us safe then we just put up with it.

Not just airports that confiscate - I took my 13 year old daughter to the 02 Appolo in Manchester to see a group called All Time Low - I had a miniature Bells on me and I was frisked and they took it - My intention was to drink it after the gig as it was brass monkeys, no use arguing it had to go.
I had to make to with near a £5 a pint of beer instead. I suppose bringing your own in a 5000 venue was silly, as they are just as much a target as an airport.

[xraydice]

Pebble , take off your sock and put it in = weapon

Removal of a pebble from a Scottish beach is an offence.

Security staff may know the passenger, but what of the "stranger" in the queue behind you....

[scotbill]

All the more reason to have just as stringent security at smaller airports.Can I remind the self-righteous posters (who clearly do not fly to Scottish islands much) that we are talking about "security" which is more stringent than other airports.
In allowing the security pantomime to ruin the aviation experience to the extent that people avoid flying altogether, we have let the terrorists win.
Harrassing invalid pensioners rather than more likely suspects is not the way to go.

[Aero Mad]

take off your sock and put it in = weaponxraydice, you can tell us how a pebble in a sock is a weapon until you're blue in the face. But it annoys the hell out of the travelling public! Why? Because how many times has an Ìleach (or any Scotsman for that matter), however irate, turned a pebble and a sock into a weapon?? Few enough for us not to have our liberties restricted to that extent.

Security staff may know the passenger, but what of the "stranger" in the queue behind you.... The stranger in the queue behind you doesn't matter if you're the one carrying the pebble, nor does it matter if you know the poor fellow!! Obviously if he's a complete stranger then that's another matter, but that is more than slightly unlikely in the Hebrides...

Removal of a pebble from a Scottish beach is an offence. Firing a cannon close to a dwelling house is illegal (Metropolitan Police Act 1839); the use of any slide upon ice or snow is also outlawed (Town Police Clauses Act 1847); driving cattle through the streets of London is prohibited (Metropolitan Streets Act 1867), it is also illegal to eat mince pies on Christmas Day (banned by Oliver Cromwell and never repealed), and according to the Holy Days and Fasting Days Act of 1551 (which has also yet to be repealed) everyone must attend church on Christmas Day on foot.

There is a common phrase at my alma mater, namely goive. Perhaps you should look it up and take note.

I rest my case.

[yates]

Don't blame the airports, blame the Government.

The Department of Transport consistantly refuse to meet with Airport Authorities to discuss what is common sense and what is not, simply because if, for example, they allowed water pistols to be carried on board, there is a possibility that said item could be filled with noxcious liquid and used to threaten crew. They wouldn't accept that if said pistols were proven to be empty prior to boarding, they wouldnt be a threat, because no one has proved that this would be infallible.

All airports have to follow the same Government guide lines, they guidelines are so vague that there is massive interperation to be had by indiviual organisations.
There are childrens toy guns which are so like the real thing, in a heated moment it's difficult to tell them from the real thing - faced with it at your head or that of a loved one, who would argue? With basic training, such as hand to hand combat skills taught by the Military, I could kill you with a pebble in my fist. A sobering thought and exactly what these people have to take into account, although I whole heartedly agree that they shouldn't have to.

Take it up with your MP and see how far you get.

[Ernest Lanc's]

@ yates


Don't blame the airports, blame the Government.


Why?..Did they smash aircraft into the Twin towers that made all this extra security necessary.

Yes it's inconvenient..Better than the inconvenience of being blown out the the sky, because proper checks had not been made.

[xraydice]

Aero Mad,

" Security staff may know the passenger, but what of the "stranger" in the queue behind you...."
sorry too subtle maybe, but the Security slaves are watched and tested and very aware of the possibility of dft testing , today a pebble, tomorrow an island so to speak :)
As Yates says "Don't blame the airports, blame the Government." his post is spot on.
A Haggis in a sporran could also be considered a weapon, its the Goverment experts who decide the criteria :8

Ah the TPCA & MPA ,memories of 30 years past as a probationer and then as now always interested in the current situation, so dont shoot the messenger old boy.;)

[Ernest Lanc's]

Clear as can be - You may not be able to take a pebble, but you can take breast milk through security;;

Blaming HM Government - Humbug;).

Dangerous and restricted items: what you cannot take on board an aircraft : Directgov - Travel and transport (http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Foreigntravel/AirTravel/DG_176922)

Air travel hand baggage rules : Directgov - Travel and transport (http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Publictransport/AirtravelintheUK/DG_078179)

EDIT:
Not just the UK.
We has a nice small collection of shells we had picked up off the beach in Costa Rica and they were confiscated by the authorities at the airport in Liberia.

Does anyone bring home sand, sea shells, and pebbles as momentos - Page 2 - Cruise Critic Message Boards (http://cruiseforums.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=534924&page=2)

[The SSK]

The airlines (on behalf of their passengers) argue for a risk-based approach to security. That is to say, the consequences of a Scotsman going berserk on a small aeroplane with an outsize pebble in his sock might be considerable, but the risk of it happening is negligible.

But there again, on 10th September 2001, the risk of terrorists taking control of four airliners and flying three of them into public buildings would have been perceived as negligible. Therein lies the dilemma.

[The Hypnoboon]

Once, not long after September 11, a friend of mine tried to take a cigarette lighter shaped like a bullet ( one of the several items of tat given to us by a major nightclub) through security at Palma airport. You can imagine the hilarity that ensued...

[Self Loading Freight]

It's not whether the general level of airport security is too onerous (for the record, I think it's far too OTT and agree with Bruce Schneier about it being theatre rather than effective or necessary) but whether some of the small island airports are even worse than that.

It seems as if they could well be. Which is a shame - and yes, it'll be CalMac for me when I get the choice. (Although their onboard catering is a terror weapon in itself.) Next time, I'll make sure to pack my geological specimens (including anything particularly interesting from Yesnaby) away from prying eyes.

[redED]

Typical small airport syndrome, some get it right, most don't. You want to try being air crew, they love to make an example of you and tear shreds off you!

[vulcanised]

we should be using the resources to target certain types of people


Of course we should !

Trouble is that plays straight into the hands of those who scream about racism and victimisation. As long as those folk are listened to, things will stay as they are.