Qantas engine problem out of Canberra

[4Greens]

News report of an engine failure and turn back to Canberra by a Qantas plane.

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Yeah!

Even reported today on Perth Radio 6PR, as the pilot got to Goulburn, realised that aircraft wasn't with him, so he turned around and went back to CB.....and, of course ....landed safely!!....on ONE 'propeller'...so it was reported.

I reeally fort fat most of dem pilots landed on a cupla 'weels'.....

Slow news day....:sad::sad:

[Capn Bloggs]

Qantas plane.
For the 50th time, it's an aeroplane, laddie! Planes shave wood! :}

[noclue]

Qantas plane turns back after engine fails (http://www.smh.com.au/travel/travel-incidents/qantas-plane-turns-back-after-engine-fails-20120203-1qwne.html)

so there has been;
1) a 400 into Weipa
http://www.torresnews.com.au/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=872%3Aemergency-landing-drama&Itemid=59
2) a 300 into Brisbane
faulty oil pressure indication
3) a 200 into Lord Howe Island
http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2011/10/19/qantas-turbo-prop-emergency-at-lord-howe-island/
4) a 400 into Cloncurry
FADEC fail
5) a 400 into Brisbane?
failure at top of descent
6) now a 400 out of Canberra
Qantas plane turns back after engine fails (http://www.smh.com.au/travel/travel-incidents/qantas-plane-turns-back-after-engine-fails-20120203-1qwne.html)

Granted the Weipa one was back in 2008, but the last 5 have all been in the last 6 months or so. :eek:
Whats going on??

[Wally Mk2]

............hey 'bloggsie' I think 99% of the population would know that the 'plane' in question here would belong to the 'aero' family:E Although make one land with no wheels then it could very well do some 'shaving' of the tarmac:-)
I read the hapless pax would be re booked on the next flight, all 74 of them I assume back in another Dash 8 with it's original booked pax, could be cosy:-)

Anyway am surprised this thread is actually running, after all it is about QF & we can't have that now can we!:E


Wmk2

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Troo Wal,

Wot was suprising is that this 'news item' was repeated throughout the afternoon in PERTH!!

Like, its really NEWS or sumphin'??

NO kindergarden / oldies nursing home involved, a 'normal' S/E ldg one would assume as nil 'other event' resulting from it ....the u/c remained 'attached'.....everyone 'deplaned' (That's 'got the splinters out'...) normally and safely.... Crew got to go home safely.....
Where's the actual NEWS in the public interest???

Perhaps the item should have read something like, 'Despite having one propeller stopped (Journo's phrase...) this QANTAS employed pilot exercised his skill and training in the true QANTAS tradition and brought his stricken aircraft in to land safely, in truly adverse conditions'.....:eek:

Now, something like that COULD be 'blown out' to a whole column on a 'slow news' day I reckon....:hmm:

Any 'creative' takers??:E:E

[Typhoon650]

When did this happen? Yesterday evening (Friday about 7pm) a Q400 came in and made all sorts of weird noises when the props went into beta.
They were also doing full power runs on a Q400 around 11pm at the maintenance base there.

[Icarus53]

For once it seems that the event has been given proper attention - a short, fact based item without sensationalised passenger descriptions or half a page of "Qantas planes have recently ......." etc.

Heard about the incident from a friend a looked it up online - noticed that the piece had been moved off the page just a few hours later. Surely this is roughly the attention such items deserve - a straightforward report that says it happened, was dealt with by the crew and now everything's back to normal. It's news because it's mildly out-of-the-ordinary, not because some wannabe pilot hack journo tried to take it up a few notches with vivid yet impossibly inaccurate third party descriptions and an attempted link to any other incident with a red tail involved.

[Toruk Macto]

Qlink is not the airline they want to smash, no need for the players to smear a dash8 in the papers!

[scrubba]

Would any of the Dash 8s have sufficient performance OEI to go around from short finals at CBR?

If not, does that make CBR the "nearest suitable airport" for an OEI landing?

[ConfigFull]

The Q400 can take-off on RWY35 at MTOW/32C/Bleeds On/Nil Headwind, cop an engine failure at V1 and keep going.

Runway is ~3,300m long so there's the added benefit of that distance from the limiting obstacle as well.

[4dogs]

Is that also true for the 100/200/300?

How much does OAT kill the performance above 32C for the -400 and the relevant temps for the rest?

Stay alive,

[ConfigFull]

Hey 4dogs, (you don't happen to work for a certain ATR operator on the E coast do you..?! - Just kidding!)

It looks like the Q400 loses about ~450kg per 2C above 32C

Don't know about the 100 (you could probably guarantee it'd be worse than a 2/300) but...

Max temp at CBR RWY 35 - nil wind/MTOW (bleeds off for 200/300)
- 200: 24C (MTOW ~16500kg)
- 300: Can't do MTOW unless 2C and headwind of 20kt (for comparison, at 24C and nil wind MTOW ~18600kg)

[How's it Hanging]

At ISA +20 at 2000' a Q400 can do 2.5% missed approach OEI at 29.0t and 5% at 26.7t.

[Up-into-the-air]

Canberra is for the 35 ILS-Y:


MIN MAP GRAD 5.0% TO 3200FT THEN 2.5%

One of the steepest, if not steepest in Southern Hemisphere

[Captain Gidday]

Canberra is for the 35 ILS-Y:
MIN MAP GRAD 5.0% TO 3200FT THEN 2.5%
One of the steepest, if not steepest in Southern Hemisphere

Don't get too excited UITA. Quite a few airstrips in PNG have slopes greater than 5%, and that's the strip. You don't even want to think about a go-round. And who knows what they get up to in the Andes, the South Is of NZ, Kenya, Zimbabwe, Indonesia etc.

5% = 2.86 degrees, i.e. slightly less than the ILS you just came down. To put it in perspective, the 34L Katoomba One Departure out of Sydney requires a gradient of 5.9% to 2500' and a full [max ZFW] 747 going to Singapore will do that at reasonable temperatures [up to 30 degrees at least] on 3 engines.

[roger_ramjet]

The CB ILS-Y has a 2170ft minima for the 5% MAP gradient but CB also has an ILS-Z with a minima of 2300 for a 3.3% MAP climb or even a minima of 2440 if you can only achieve 2.5%.

You look in the book and work out what you can achieve on the day with weather, weight and flap setting etc.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand, does seem like a lot of engine failures in recent times. Any common themes?

[Kiwiconehead]

Probably more due to them now having 24 Q400s at what, 2000hrs per year at least?

Thick end of 50,000hrs per year plus some engines around 10,000hrs = law of averages.

Q400 is finicky at best, especially the non Next Gen which the majority of the QF fleet are.

Not sure how many of these have been "engine go bang" instances, certainly the electric bits have bad days and the guys have a QRH for the light or message and they follow it. Remember this is QantasLink - independent thought is prohibited - QRH says shutdown, you shut down - or pineapples follow - had enough very good driver mates f@cked over for using common sense and good system knowledge.

[teresa green]

CBR has always been a favorite place to lose a donk, for a start the beer is colder, the hotels are warmer, and you can always go to the War Memorial to see blokes that really lost a donk. Yeah, we never minded losing a donk in CBR.

[roger_ramjet]

Well said Teresa!

[Going Nowhere]

Another problem with a Dash

Smoke in cockpit forces small plane to make emergency landing | The Courier-Mail (http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/smoke-in-cockpit-forces-small-plane-to-make-emergency-landing/story-e6freoof-1226266816393)

[noclue]

Looking forward to next week :ugh:

[Going Nowhere]

Add another one to the list.

-300 had an engine failure enroute WEI-CNS this arvo. :ugh:

[gobbledock]

Add another one to the list.
-300 had an engine failure enroute WEI-CNS this arvo. :ugh:Any paddle pop sticks spare in the stores department??

[noclue]

Good luck finding an engineer to check the "stores department"

[Two_dogs]

Heard the Dash 8 - 300 into Cairns radio transmissions.
Request immediate descent to FL160. Stand by for PAN call.

I later heard from an unconfirmed source that the problem was a chip light on requiring an engine shutdown.

My question is, why would descent to a lower level be required?
I can only assume it might be a pressurisation issue. Would the bleed air from one engine only not be sufficient to maintain pressurisation?

[Servo]

That and possibly single engine cruise altitude????

[The Green Goblin]

My question is, why would descent to a lower level be required?
I can only assume it might be a pressurisation issue. Would the bleed air from one engine only not be sufficient to maintain pressurisation?

Spare me :ugh:

[Going Boeing]

Posted by Two_dogs
My question is, why would descent to a lower level be required?

Why do you ask?

Sorry, but I couldn't let it past without throwing that line in!

[Two_dogs]

Green Goblin,
I was asking because I DIDN'T KNOW!

My background is piston engine GA, not turbo prop RPT.
You obviously have the knowledge and experience to answer my question.
Why don't you educate me instead of resorting to snide remarks.

Something along the lines of, Two Dogs, the Dash 8 has a single engine service ceiling etc... or the flight manual states OEI pressurisation schedules ...

This forum is getting worse by the day.

[rmcdonal]

At a guess it wouldn't be able to hold altitude on one in that part of the world where you are ISA+15 and beyond. 160 seems like a safe FL to drift down to if you were around the FL200 mark and unsure what level you could hold.

[FJ44]

160 seems like a safe FL to drift down to

FL160 from Weipa to Cairns would certainly be safe, you must be remembering those hills up there as a bit bigger than they are!
:E

[Going Nowhere]

F160 is the Target driftdown level for 16T at ISA+20.

As the flight was 95% full out of WEI, F160 was probably not a bad guess until you can get into the QRH. :ok:

Apparently the noise stopped and the Tq and Nh just went zero.

Don't think there's a 'chip light' on the Dash.

[DeafStar]

7 engine failures in 6 months! :8

[noclue]

$20 on a shutdown in march. :(

[The Green Goblin]

Green Goblin,
I was asking because I DIDN'T KNOW!

My background is piston engine GA, not turbo prop RPT.
You obviously have the knowledge and experience to answer my question.
Why don't you educate me instead of resorting to snide remarks.

Something along the lines of, Two Dogs, the Dash 8 has a single engine service ceiling etc... or the flight manual states OEI pressurisation schedules ...

This forum is getting worse by the day.

Well from your 'background' in pistons, do you think you can merrily continue at your typical cruising altitude if an engine fails?

For the record, a jet, turboprop etc can't either.

However the remaining engine(s) is/are certified to provide the required bleed pressure (pressurization, anti ice, de icing, pneumatics etc) and electrical current to satisfy demand for all primary systems.

In regards to electrical load from ancillary systems which cant be met from one generator source, these are generally shed automatically (via a shed bus) to allow the primary systems to continue to operate.

Mostly these systems can be restored with an APU (in the case of an ETOPS twin).

[Servo]

TGG, I dont think you can bring the -300 APU gen online during flight or start it or was that just the 100/200??

Been a LONG time so forgive me on the PW engines being able to maintain cruise alt AND Pressurisation to a sufficient Diff Pressure.

[Two_dogs]

Green Goblin,

Thanks for your considered response.
A lot closer to what I was looking for.

No I do not expect to continue at my cruising altitude in piston twins on one engine, unless of course I'm low anyway.

Most of the types I fly will probably be a nightmare at charter weights, they tend to be a handful on one engine at training weights!

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Hey 'GB',

I'll have to say it again......
(its ok - I got it...):ok::ok:

[PropDoc]

Hi guys. The Apu on any dash 8 (1/2/3/400) is not certified for fight ops. And hence will auto shutdown if you go trundling down the runway with it still going. :zzz: it is very evident on the 400, as the EMU logs the shutdown.

I thought there were more than 7 shutdowns of recent..

Cheers.

[Capt Claret]

WoW prox sensor on the nose gear, shuts down the APU on oleo extension.

It also shuts down the APU if a lot of freight is loaded with no pax to balance it out. Half a dozen beefy blokes on the flight deck (squeezy!) will allow APU restart but the darned thing'll shut down again as they leave.:D

[Going Nowhere]

Q400 depressurisation into CFS tonight. :ugh:

[Capt Claret]

Q400 depressurisation into CFS tonight.

There may be no connection but way back when, I experienced several depressurisations when the main door seal would deflate passing about F170 on descent. A sticky door seal valve as best I can recall.