Hog Hunting....Texas Style!

[SASless]

This is real Hawg Huntin' done proper!

Before all you Huggy Fluffs get all riled up....recall that Hog Infestation has caused Millions of Dollars worth of crop damage, damage to farmland, and injuries to farm stock.

This is a way of reducing the feral Hog population....and to me beats poisoning, trapping, and other control methods. At least this one is good fun!

For those of you in the UK....you will never have to worry about trying this at home.



JgVquZ-TDOQ

[chriswhi]

'at least this one is more fun'

It would have beenmore fun if he had stuffed the robbo in, sick video

[Agaricus bisporus]

Whats hard to understand about that explanation?
Whats sick about controlling vermin?
Idiot.

[jeffg]

Chriswhi,

Perhaps you don't quite understand what a problem we have, read here:

A Plague of Pigs in Texas | Science & Nature | Smithsonian Magazine (http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/A-Plague-of-Pigs-in-Texas.html?)

I also find it disturbing that you would rather see a helicopter full of people crash vice some feral hogs get shot. To each his own I guess.

[Gomer Pylot]

There have already been at least 3 fatal accidents while hunting hogs in helicopters. More to follow, almost certainly.

[Savoia]

More 'Heli Hogging' on the Pig and Pussy Hunt (http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/112736-pig-pussy-hunt-take-your-helicopter.html) thread!

[misterbonkers]

yeeee haaaaa!

Looks like the shooter could do with a case catcher - if I was flying I wouldn't fancy a hot casing down my neck.

If it's such a problem over there why not call in the national guard - good practice for gunships!

What happens to the carcasses? Are they left in the wild or taken home for supper?

[krypton_john]

What's the weapon he's shooting with?

[Takan Inchovit]

quote if I was flying I wouldn't fancy a hot casing down my neck

.. or in your blade.

[tecpilot]

As i my father teached me hunting he told me each day wild animals are part of God's creation and we have to hunt and to chase in respect.

The video blame all hunters, but i wouldn't say it's a hunting video. Not more than trigger happy idiots killing for fun. What a fun killing and wounding (followed by a slowly and painful death) a mass of wild animals like slaughters from above and with self-loading guns.

Before all you Huggy Fluffs get all riled up....recall that Hog Infestation has caused Millions of Dollars worth of crop damage, damage to farmland, and injuries to farm stock.


Yes millions of dollar damage. Why is the population increasing? The animals are there because the farmers feeding they. The animal population is increasing due to more and more maize and soya for the biofuel industry and other customers. Animal populations don't increase if they have not enough to chop.

Helicopter animal killing in such fashion is prohibited and under draconian penalty in a lot of countries for good reasons.

[SASless]

From Savoia's post in the other thread....

Why such drastic action by state lawmakers? There’s a simple answer. These wild porkers are taking over the state’s agricultural land and are even moving into the outskirts of some urban areas. We’re talking millions of hogs here, not just a few thousand. Less than 10 years ago the estimate of the Texas feral hog population was 2.2 million and today it is over 4 million and climbing rapidly. Texans can brag that they have over half the feral hog population of the U.S. within state borders.

In Texas, feral hogs cause more than $400 million in damages to crops, fences, irrigation ditches, livestock, wildlife, golf courses and even yards each year. They carry a number of diseases, some of which are transferable to humans and livestock. Hog brucellosis, pseudo-rabies, tuberculosis, trichinosis, hog cholera, anthrax, tularemia, six varieties of stomach worms, Lyme disease—and of course fleas, ticks and lice—are all part of the package. And they almost breed exponentially.

Enter the helicopter. Of all the methods tried for control such as no season, no limit hunting, trapping and snaring, the helicopter and aerial shooting have proven to deliver the best results. As an example, ground hunting usually produces a kill of six to eight per hour or, at best, 60 hogs a day. Helicopter shooting, on a good day, could produce 30 per hour. Even with those statistics, aerial shooting for the past 12 months has resulted in an estimated kill of only 70,000 hogs, a drop in the bucket, so far. The new regulations should elevate that number.

Tec....if we were talking about Moose, Elk, Deer, Bear, Buffalo, Wolves perhaps....but when it is Feral Hogs....that is a different matter. These Hogs are Vermin...causing enormous damage and are out of control.

Each hog killed is recovered, butchered, and used as much as possible.

I love the usual anti-gun...anti-hunting approach to the responses....and usually so full of ignorance about the actual issues at hand.

Shooting from a helicopter is safe....both for the crew, shooter, aircraft when done with a modicum of commonsense. Have not the military been doing it for over fifty years now?

Mustering which is the flying most common to this Hog Hunting has its own share of crashes.....and the Robinson R-44 figures in more than a few as well. So it isn't the mere fact some guys hunting hogs have found themselves in the dirt or trees.

Unlike most in Europe (which includes the UK) are all about stopping others from doing something if one objects to it being done....rather than merely "not engaging in the activity oneself". That is perhaps a difference to those of us here on this end of the Saltwater Divide.

If the folks in Texas want to go Hawg Hunting in Helicoptes using machine guns and its legal....then fair dinkum for them!

I could happily engage in some Hawg Hunting that way....but will still reserve the old fashioned method for my Elk, Deer, and Beer hunting. I prefer to get out on foot and murder them by ambush which I guess is seen as being far more sporting. Granted...I am using a modern firearm with a telescopic sight rather than a spear or arrow but then is not all hunting a degree of barbarity? But then I see Slaughter Houses as being palaces of barbarity....despite enjoying that Hamburger, bacon, ham, steak, and chop!

As I said in the initial post....our gang of Huggy Fluffs would have to lodge their usual protests....and I see nothing has changed here.

The Farmers are feeding the Hawgs....yes....and in the same way of thinking... residents of the City of London are feeding Rats too I guess? Are Rats welcome in London? If so...why are there Exterminators specializing in Rat Removal? Do they relocate them or put them down?

[Flying Binghi]

Maybe its the camera, though them chaps seem to be shooting at the pigs from a long way out. I'd reckon they'd save a few bullets, and money, if they got a bit closer. ...oh, and a shell catcher wouldn't go astray either..:)



.

[industry insider]

You 'Merican boys just garter find an excuse to keeaal sump'n with theyam gurns y'all own. Y'all are strange sometimes.

[tecpilot]

May be i'm a little upset, but hogs in the most countries are big game and not vermin. And it's a watchful game, able to fight hard (several times a thanked my kevlar trousers) and it deserves respect. From a helicopter it's not more than slaughtering with a lot of bullets in a very painful baiting way. I have no problems with hog regulation, but it's the way which make the difference.

[SASless]

We don't live in "most countries"....sorry.

This is Texas we are talking about which actually used to be its very own country before annexing the rest of the United States (Texas version...).

Now I guess we will hear about running down Hawgs and killing them with pocket knives or something similar!:ooh:

[osmosis]

... would need to be a long pocket knife.

http://s1.bild.me/bilder/060112/thumb_9358787swine-flu-pandemic-australia-environment-feral-pig1.jpg (http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=9358787swine-flu-pandemic-australia-environment-feral-pig1.jpg)

[MD500E]

Got nothing on some of the kiwi venison recovery videos on youtube

[VH-XXX]

Poor little piggies!

Over here if we didn't go back and stick a cap in the head of the wounded ones we'd be hearing screams from the greenies!

[Savoia]

Got nothing on some of the kiwi venison recovery videos on youtube

Actually, most of the truly 'stunning' footage from the height of the deer recovery days (mid-to-late 70's and early 80's) is not on You Tube but stashed away in boxes and shelves belonging to the flying farmers from that era (on VHS and in some cases Betamax video cassette). If anyone could ever round-up this material .. it would be a great watch!

Saw hours and hours of home made videos in Papua New Guinea which had been brought up by the Kiwi contingent of our flyboy force. It was (for them) a sort of 'helicopter porn' which they were unable to do without. Often times at the flying club after work (Mt. Hagen) some of the Kiwi drivers would begin imitating deer sounds after only their second beer! :rolleyes:

Regarding the Texas hog hunting/culling taking place .. I think this is an ideal opportunity for chefs across the State to devise a range of Texan wild boar recipes!

[ShyTorque]

Surely that should be banned. They need a twin engined machine for that.


:E

[Pandalet]

Are those hogs IFR-approved? tsk tsk...

[Savoia]

C'mon Shy, I am sure you can do better than that!

Not only must the aircraft be a twin but the crew (and passengers) must have attended at 'hog familiarisation' course at a US Depart of Livestock, Agriculture (and other things that move) facility within the past 90 days.

Shooters are additionally required to attend a 'know your swine' day at the American Association of Hog Lovers to better 'feel' the needs of hogs in an effort to encourage 'humane' shooting.

Prior to any shooting sorties the crew must have surveyed the intended hunting area (with video evidence) making editorial note via an interactive onboard GPS map display of any obstacles within the hunting zone. Due to the fact that reconnaissance flights are required to be recorded this (technically) falls under the category of 'filming' and therefore necessitates the presence of a member of the American Humane Association (who must also have attended the hog familiarisation course).

Due to the sensitivities of hog shooting the operator must exercise due consideration for members of the community who are offended by the culling of hogs and make provision for between one and three representatives of the local community to be present on board during such operations (and who must have attended the hog familiarisation course .. of course!).

Should, during the course of the cull, a member of the hog-loving community (offended by the aerial slaughter of hogs) wish to exercise their First Amendedment right to 'net' the boar (for humane reasons) the operator shall not forbid the community member from attempting to do so and shall make necessary provision for the community member to be able to fire a US Game and Wildlife approved net gun. The community member must have attended an approved net gun training course within the past 90 days with certification for operations on the specific aircraft type used by the operator.

Should the community member be successful in netting a hog the community member shall be responsible for the recovery of the hog and its humane relocation or disposal and in regard to which a separate volume of regulations apply.

Due to the unlikely phenomena of 'hog out' (where the dust generated by the tiny trotters of numerous hogs creates a dust cloud affecting the pilot's visibility) hog hunting helicopters must be IFR equipped and flown by a pilot with a current instrument rating.

In the unlikely event of a forced landing or crash during hunting operations, all personnel carried aboard hog-hunting helicopters must wear approved anti-goring body armour so as to be shielded from the potential retaliations of angy boars should the aircraft happen to alight or crash within the immediate vicinity of the hunted hogs.

I sure there's more but I am simply unable to remember at this time .. perhaps someone else does!

;)


No Animals Were Harmed® during the compilation of this post

[Paddyviking]

Don't you just arguments like this :ok:

PV


SAS

"Beer" hunting ?
Is that not illegal :eek:

[topendtorque]

Seeing as how I've been at the business end of this stuff for a while I should lend a few comments.

Foot and mouth is one disease you missed Sasless. The whole of the north of Australia is paranoid about that especially with our northern pig population when the boat people would land on our coastline. One mob landed right by Darwin, walked up and hailed a taxi from downtown, the taxi driver ‘woke’ and took them to the local fed shed. Now they all go straight to the 5* accommodation at Xmas Is.

Lots of problems portrayed in the video and Shy T is right, with two shooters there should two engines, in fact two machines, one the other side of the thickets to blow the critters out into the clear air and the other mows them down, could be the message.

Rule number one get the second shooter out. Allow the pilot to concentrate on one gun which will give him enough power margins to do so. Plenty of times you can see him labouring while the engine man throws a few more shovels of coal in to get the steam up while the earth just stands still, at a very unsafe vertical distance below should the engine decide to quit. In that terrain flying outside the H/V so much is just not on.

Rule number two, never but never lift that barrel skywards. At the 4.38 mark the rear shooter raises his barrel skyward. Very tired of living that boy! Over here you do that, you walk and don't fly ever again, and you be lucky the pilot doesn’t bash p**s outa you.

Sasless suggested figures of 30 per hour; we have consistently shot in good conditions 120 to 140 per hour. That's brumbies, pigs, donkeys, buffalo and feral cattle.
We averaged close to that on one donkey shoot over five years and 2200 hours.

Rule number three wrong position; get lower and from the rear quarter behind the last in line and work along the line of animals, and slow down, keep in formation with them instead of over flying them. That’s where the lower AUW really counts. I’ve often had a shooter on board, didn’t have to move his barrel at all, I just lined it up with the pedals each time and he just kept pulling the trigger at about one per second. A line of twenty animals behind a twenty shot mag was very common. Best I ever had was a bloke that put down 286 donkeys in 18.5 minutes. Then we landed to reload the 10x20 and 3x30 shot mags. We went back and finished off about five which weren’t dead, he was phenomenal, by far the best I ever saw. A bit like Custer's last stand.

Rule number four, get some accuracy. That’s the worst shooting I’ve seen. In the donkey shoot I talked about we averaged 1.3/hd and in the early days of BTEC it was the same with bullet counters everywhere. Later because of the greenies we developed the double tap just to make sure, so now it’s around 2.1/hd. Never shoot while turning which is obvious here - often.

Rule number five. No loin shooting as we see in the video. If that footage gets out into the greenie arena you can forget it red rover, all over. Also as seen a couple of times animals left not dead, we never left animals without ensuring all were dead. That was imperative.

We started in the eighties with open sights then peep sights and then the two power optical, which were very good and nearly all head shots. The red dot scopes mostly fell apart. The scope in the front gun is a magic device an EO Tech, about AU$1,500.00 for a good quality one. It is impossible to miss with the damm thing. The barrel mounted video on the rear gun is through another type of scope we were to use on another contract here but didn’t get. It is also very good, and can be plugged into an internal monitor can record for several hours and be coupled to a GPS. No arguments then about where you were. With the monitor the pilot can fly the sight line.

The shooter should get a foot peg mounted onto the skid upright, a very simple gadget. The shooters should also be wearing helmets, what’s wrong with them?

The rifles look like AR15’s. They have shown themselves up to handling long hard hours over here with the .308 round. For pigs you would probably only need the 5.56mm.

Unless some reforms are implemented in Texas I can see it being a short term crash infested affair. In OZ we have shot well over 2 million ferals, without pigs and we had very few accidents, less than ten at that work over twenty years. The majority of which were caused by wires. One bloke shot himself down with a ricochet going back into his T/R on a R22, another two put empty cases into the engine cooling fan on 47’s.
The trick here was all that work was done with experienced pilots, most of whom are now elsewhere.

One last thing, the camera ship was living dangerously looking for a ricochet fragment to come his way, tell him to p**s orff behind the line of shooting, halfwit.

Nowadays I would much prefer to mount up in an Enstrom 480B with a stabilised rifle mount, plenty of room, power, endurance and cheap enough to run. I bet it would outperform the R44 on a per head basis.

Pandalet,
Not quite IFR, but I have seen footage of FLIR hog hunting on some island group, can't remember where, (costa rica perhaps) quite remarkable. Trophy shooting it was. someone might find it.
cheers tet

[ShyTorque]

Are these flights done under VFR:

Verminous
Feral
Riddance.

Or, they could be done under IFR

Indigenous
Farmers'
Revenge.

Only askin'.... :p

[Flying Binghi]

via VH-XXX #18;
...Over here if we didn't go back and stick a cap in the head of the wounded ones we'd be hearing screams from the greenies!

Cap to the head of screaming greenies... :ooh:


...:)




.

[mtoroshanga]

Not black catting but in the late '60s was involved in an elephant and buffelo cull in Kruger Park for 6 months using a Bell47 and poison darts!!

[topendtorque]

Thanks eddie 1, most entertaining. Note the Owen gun photo just before the Thompson. always wanted to own one of them.

The gun buy back certainly got rid of a lot of hardware, my own special Springfield, two SKB semi auto shotguns and a couple of other smaller automatics for one, but recently there has been media reports of there being more guns than ever in parts of New South Wales and Victoria, so the fascination with firearms prevails.

We try to make sure the feral dogs, err-all but protected and prolific dingos, that chew our calves gleefully don't get far when sighted with my varmit barrelled .243.

Lucijet is the one poison that will remove large quatities of hogs quick time. All's needed is a cement mixer and a heap of second grade peanuts.

mtoroshanga,
you remind me of some of the most humourous times during the big shoot outs of the BTEC campaign, which was tranquilising and collaring cows (or bulls early on) as judas cows. Getting that dope load right was very entertaining if the doped cow wasn't quite out to it and woke up duing the process with a most unfriendly attitude with a mob of us standing around her and the nearest tree quite a sprint away.
tet

[mtoroshanga]

Before the cull we had to do a count so one animal in each herd had to be darted and a big yellow number painted on its side. Ther was a few hairy moments during that op!!!

[Agaricus bisporus]

I aave to agree with some of the comments on the flying in that video, it looks horribly dangerous, ill considered and frankly cowboy. I've never actually shot pig from the air but have chased Warthog many times with a view to borrowing a rifle and having a desert barbecue, as did my colleagues at the time. The technique is as described above, sit on their rear quarter and they'll just trot along offering a clear and easy shot. Get too close and they spook and double under you or swerve to the side. 40-60 feet away was probably the distance to keep them in a straight line. We found we could direct them where we wanted them to go reasonably well and it was easy enough to keep splitting a group until you'd cut out the one you wanted and got him on his own (we didn't fancy the idea of his mum and dad coming looking for him as we were roping him up).
Sadly we fell foul of silly notions that the guards might get offended that we were eating pig...we weren't planning to offer them any. Pity. I'd love to be able to tell tales of hunting Warthog with an AK from a Jetranger!

[SASless]

Imagine that...."Cowboys in Texas"? What is this old World coming to?:rolleyes:

[topendtorque]

They say Sasless that nothing bigger'n it is in Texas. cowboys and acttle ranches is symbolic of the joint. The average "ranch" size is 14 head. Yep fourteen.

Where I live the average Kau farm is 4,500 head, Just an observation.

Treated one day to a very low pass and orbit or two by two of the then very new B2's on their first trip out here in a "pitch black" exercise. We were yarding up a mob of some 2,200 head and I guess the drivers just wanted to see what a real aussie kau farm yard up looked like.

We really appreciated it, especially when they decided to pour the coal on and cut. Awesome power.
I guess they must have 'seen' us from quite away back and wondered what the heck we were doing.
tet

[Matari]

Topendtorque,

In Texas, agricultural tax exemptions make just about every land owner of any size a "rancher." In fact, driving out of Houston's IAH airport, you'll see a small plot of land in between hotels and car parks, with several head of cattle. Smart land owner, that one. The first thing someone does when they buy a couple acres in the country is apply as a ranch and get the ag tax exemption, and put a few head of cattle on it for when the tax collector comes by.

[topendtorque]

Matari,

That makes sense then, I could never figure it out. That used be the case here, a Pitt St. corporate on a multimillion wage owning a little farmlet and paying just about zero tax because of his claimed primary producer status. Now they have tightened up big time and there are laws against claiming major benefits against your minor business entity income.
You guys better keep quiet or Mr. O will have a big slice of those tax rebates returned to big brother.

I noticed also there are 25 or so million people in Texas; the Northern Territory is 2 and half times larger, or 6 times bigger'n Great Britain, with a population of only 300,000, half of whom are indigenes, so not too many taxpayers.

One of my favourite relax times is to watch TV doco’s of GB coast lines etc, I am amazed at the open spaces, must be proper cramped up somewhere.

Cheers tet.

[SASless]

The problem with Texans is they generally try to cram a two gallon head into a ten gallon stetson.

Which sounds like a good description of some of these folks...as being all Hat and no Cattle!

[Helo-Pilot]

There were two shooters who switched positions as the day went on. One of them used a RRA 308, while the other prefers a Saiga 12 gauge. As for the pilot of the other aircraft, try to keep in mind sometimes you just have to do what the boss says.

[Helo-Pilot]

And SAS, your right. Some of these folks are all hat, no cattle. That makes them FARMERS. Have you ever seen what a few hogs can do to a crop? It definatly justifies the cost of a helicopter when you are farming a couple of thousand acres.

[topendtorque]

Helo-Pilot,
Do they have FAA accredited courses for the shooters?

Over here we call them a platform course. far more complex than the initial and five yearly renewal of a firearms license which usually only allows from the ground shooting and either pistols, bolt action or pump action centre fires plus all the rimfires of course.

The flying test on the platform course involves a timed circuit of twenty or so cut out targets the size of a cow with a balloon wedged in one or two holes in each target, cut out in the head / heart position. When I was doing them they required a pass rate of 95%. Not so easy when them wooden critters don't move and consequently they are converging or diverging from each target. I always put the target nice and close.

They have to be accredted with CASA and the local Police department (firearms section) Each state has different rules as to how long a shooter can be licensed to drive a semi auto so it's very confusing and obstructive in some states, especially Queensland.


Also unlike the video, if they didn't immediately clear that gun completely with the mag out before it was brought back inside it was an automatic fail. A lot of our shooters were ex vietnam dudes, they could clear a gun quicker than a wink and be lighting a fag and always knew exactly how many rounds left in the mag.

The reason for that was simple apart from common sense, it wasn't unusual to have a gun stutter a bit when it got hot and a gun making loud noises inside the cab was not on.

Are the pilots required to be mustering endorsed or just low level endorsed?

Most of our feral animal control contracts stipulate at least 1500 hours PIC mustering /shooting or similar such as Ag work. It is usual though that most pilots on this sort of work would be minimum 5,000 hours mustering / shooting.

And oh yeah, we have a saying, the bigger the hat the smaller the sheep station, some hats of which have to be seen to be believed. Not that I know anything much about sheep, they stink too much.

Cattle blokes just wear hats they can get about in the scrub with on a bolter easy, keep the sun of, flog that horse or quickly take a bulls mind off his maybe bad attituide from time to time as one steps sideways.

They are always flash enough though to sell to a tourist for a few hundred bucks when you're strapped for a quid, especially when they have a bit of blood an gore on them.

cheers tet

I nearly forgot, you got a boss that wants to fly in front of the line of fire, get a new boss, no questions.

[SASless]

Simple answer is NO....as we are not a Nanny State or People's Republic of....yet.

Until the Hawgs are considered "Game" under the Hunting Laws...no licenses required.

No licenses required for the guns.....and probably not any time soon either. If one is shooting an "Automatic (read machine-gun) then a Federal License is required (400 USD per weapon as I recall).

The FAA under Part 135 might have some purview but if the activity is not "commercial" then not then either....beyond the usual Part 61 and 91 rules.

Remember what personal freedom was all about? Ours is being chipped away at bit by bit particularly under the current administration but we still have quite a bit yet.

Despite all those endorsements, training, protocols, regulations, laws, tariffs, and procedures.....you still have mustering accidents....and make things complicated and expensive as all Hell. I reckon we should stick to our method....simple...cheap...effective.

You are using one video to pass judgement on everyone that is doing the Hawg Shooting.....perhaps others do it a bit differently...and maybe even those in the video have changed their methods...as no one intentionally goes out to get hurt. If they do....then no matter how many rules, tests, etc....you require...they are going to succeed in doing so.

[Gordy]

To add to SASless's comments, if one is doing this work for the government--ie as part of a Department Of Interior contract, then yes, there is training and a checkride required.

[Helo-Pilot]

SAS, I re-read my last couple of posts and realized how crappy I sounded. I apologize, it was not intended to be that way.
There are no FAA regulations on hog hunting from the helicopters. YET.

As for training, there is at least one company in Texas that is doing aerial platform training specific to animal depredation. I have taken that class, and was not impressed.

The complete first half day of the class was a lecture on the hog problem in Texas. What the laws require as far as permits and hunting licenses. General safety around helicopters. And there was about 30 minutes of the instructor sweeping the muzzle of his AR15 :eek: across the students while trying to sound professional in explaining why you should ONLY do this their way.

The morning was followed by a short lunch, then about an 1.5 hr drive to the ‘range’ where we all stood around and waited for our chance to fly and shoot our allotted 60 rounds at a stationary target.

In my opinion, it was not worth the cost of the course.

Usually, I talk to our shooters, discuss clearing the weapon, the rotor disk, and a short discussion on the ‘just in cases’. I make sure that they know that I, as the pilot, will stop a hunt if I see anything being done that goes against our previous discussion. No questions asked.

[SASless]

While employed as a Special Agent for a well known US Investigative Agency....one of our "Fire Arms Instructors" did as you describe with an Uzi during one of our Monthly Office Training periods. Neither the Special Agent in Charge or the "Instructor" seemed happy when I suggested one more time of his pointing a weapon at me was going to evoke a physical response aimed at achieving a very unlikely outcome (my shoving the Uzi up his stern tube). It did result in a modification of his teaching technique as I suspect he sensed my sincerity. EEO and Quota Hiring/Promotion government policies are not all they are cracked up to be.

When quizzed by the SAC about my sensitivity to such doings.....he suggesting I was being overly touchy about it.....ended when I showed him the results of a bullet wound sustained in a prior employment which had been done with malice aforethought by the shooter. I opined the first guy probably meant me no more personal harm than did our anointed firearms instructor but having had the other experience I did not wish to risk a repeat.

I hope you pointed out his lack of awareness to him!

There are folks out there with guns that are pure and simple acting like a Dumbass....and need to be told so.

[OFBSLF]

While employed as a Special Agent for a well known US Investigative Agency....one of our "Fire Arms Instructors" did as you describe with an Uzi during one of our Monthly Office Training periods.

"I'm the only one p'ofessional enuf..." DEA Agent - YouTube

Sadly, the training standards for law enforcement officers in the US are not always what they should be.

On the other hand, stupid should hurt, and it did this time.

[SASless]

As I noted earlier.....

EEO and Quota Hiring/Promotion government policies are not all they are cracked up to be.

[Helo-Pilot]

The instructor showed this at a concealed carry class. Too funny!

[topendtorque]

Sasless,
You are right we are having mustering accidents, on an increasing curve as more and smaller outfits try the trade without the mentoring which previous larger companies used to do. There are some moves afoot to curb their hell bent desire to kill themselves but it will take time.

One case recently had a prob, knew he did by his flight path as he continued to climb to turn to a more clear area. He must never have been severely mentored from day one to understand the basic law 'land immediately'. I hope St. Peter is giving him a bloody good lecture as it’s always the mess left behind that is the hardest.

On the other hand back when the heavy shooting for BTEC and the big eradication programs were done I can quotes figures of in excess of half a million flight hours over four companies and fifteen years with five write off, only one of which was fatal. A couple of smaller outfits in Queensland had worse figures.

I can see that in areas such as the Texas grain growing industry there must be heaps of wires which would be much harder to plan for than on straight ag or where we work where there are none.

There is one trick that can be employed with any two bladed systems and that is just before the shot is fired set it up so that you are just easing down on the collective ever so slightly. Takes the bounce and weight out of the firearm and sets it up 'just perfect' so to speak. Even when you are nailing them a-la-Custer at one per second from less than twenty metres, it's much easier for the shot to be dead accurate and doesn't take much practice.

My second go at lecturing shooters was for the Dept of Primary Industry for the TB program a room (80) full of die hard ex Vietnam blokes and crusty but hard ex ringers all press ganged into being shooters as de facto stock inspectors on short term contract. I spent quite a while telling them how to kill these critters and get the blood gushing out so to speak, so they didn't waste my time on the job.

A mate of mine was highly amused when the next lecturer was a first aid jockey who spent a while telling them how to stop blood coming out of everywhere, quite a paradox.

One of the courses later run by the other shooter crowd the Conservation Commission (another paradox, they shot all the donkeys and brumbies) had recruits who had never even shot a pea rifle as kids. That was hard work.

On that course I had an experienced shooter sit in the cab on the ground to show them good position and where the skid and blades were and where the target would be etc. I couldn't believe it when he jumped in without a clearance check and was sitting there waving the unfriendly end generously around the assembled newbies. That's when you speak real quiet, like, "right now everyone stand very still while I show you something."

One point of safety we nearly found the hard way. In the drawer beside where I type this is a flash eliminator just hanging by one tang. That was the result of heavy loads used for the buffalo shooting, so if using heavy loads take the things off first; it’s the second one I have seen. It's a good sober up exercise to think of it scything through the air in front of a rotor blade.

I always invited the shooters to be aware of the same things that pilots are supposed to be like, 'down wind you only pee' which is why I coined the phrase way back when.

The underlying saftey valve though is a driver with lots of low level maneuvering experience.

all the best tet