Meteor: Out of Service Date?

[charliegolf]

Any body help? Squadron Meteors really, not the specialist roles like bang seat testbeds etc. Ta.

CG

[green granite]

Any help? from Gloster Meteor (http://plane-crazy.purplecloud.net/Aircraft/Jets/Meteor/gloster_meteor.htm)



The NF.14 (Derwent 8) was the final night-fighter variant and one hundred were built. It differed from the NF.12 in having a completely transparent, electrically operated cockpit bubble canopy to replace the T.7 version. In common with the other Meteor night fighters no ejection seats were fitted. First flown on the 23rd October 1953, WS722 was the first NF.14 to be delivered to the RAF on the 19th November 1953 and the type entered RAF service in February 1954 with 25 Squadron. The NF.14 was being replaced as early as 1956 with the Gloster Javelin, however, 60 Squadron at Tengah, Singapore, operated the type until 1961.

[Pontius Navigator]

and then 1 ANS operated them without radar as a fast-jet nav trainer until replaced by the Dominie.

[Finningley Boy]

The last active Squadron, in the Target Facilities role though, was 85 at Binbrook. I believe they stood down at the end of 1969. But they flew F8s and Canberras too.

FB

[Kitbag]

According to the IWM (http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/30018371) the single seat F8 was withdrawn from front line service in 1957.

[BEagle]

The RAF's last 2 working Meteors were probably T Mk 7 WA669 'Clementine' and F Mk 8 VZ467 'Winston'. Both were operated at RAF Brawdy in the target towing role until Oct 1982.

However, the last Meteors in front-line service (as opposed to the navigation training or target towing roles) were the NF Mk 14s of 60 Sqn RAF Tengah, which finally retired them in August 1961.

[Lima Juliet]

Beags

I always thought WK800 was called Winston and he last flew at Llanbedr in 2004. Here is a piccy...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v147/AEROMEDIA/old%20jets/Scan121.jpg

Winston belonged to the RAF, RAAF and then RAE/DERA over his flying career spanning 50years. He was even a Korean War Vet with the RAAF. At Llanbedr Winston was used as a manned "drone" trainer for those learning to fly the Jindivik (I shot one of those down once in an F3!).

LJ

[Lima Juliet]

PS. The Chalgrove birds are still going strong as well!

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt200/phredd10/Charlgrove/eCharlgrove4thJune2009TeryBurke.jpg

This picture was taken by Old Photo Fanatic on 4 Jun 09 at Chalgrove Airfield - Home of Martin Baker Ltd. :ok:

[hval]

I am able to remember that there was a squadron (No.5 Civilian Anti-Aircraft Co-Operation Unit moved) of target towing meteor T7's at R.A.F. Woodvale until 31st September 1971. There was at least one Vampire there as well.

I also remember the Red Arrows used to turn up there summer time.

[chiglet]

I saw a Meteor F8 flyby at Changi Feb '64 en route to Borneo. I don't remember any at Binbrook, tho' [I was at RAF Patrington]

[lauriebe]

VZ467 at Greenham, 31 May 80. This is the only Meteor that I have heard referred to as 'Winston'.

http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4132/5079540565_5a3ae8acb4_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/janner88/5079540565/)
IMG_0030A (http://www.flickr.com/photos/janner88/5079540565/) by Janner88 (http://www.flickr.com/people/janner88/), on Flickr

[Lima Juliet]

I maybe wrong about the Winston of Llanbedr, but I seem to remember them calling the Meatbox "Winston" when I was on one of many dets at STCAAME at RAF Valley.

[Old Photo.Fanatic]

Re your post 8 , Photo of Meteor WL 419, rear take off pic.

For the record this photo. is one I TOOK on the 4th June 2009.
during a private visit.

Accreditation should be given to myself for this photo.

Please see Pm I sent you today re. Accreditation of this photograph.

This and other photographs I posted "Post" #5 on 26th September 2010, Chalgrove thread Spectators Balcony (Spoters Corner)

Plus this photo in a selection in my thread in Aviation History and Nostalgia "Chalgove" Martin Baker Meteor photo.call, 23rd June 2009

OPF

[Rocket2]

Beagle is 100% correct - I worked on the Brawdy TTF until 24 May '76 when I flew for the last time with Puddy in Clementine putting in a blue note over the airfield after I dropped the flag - by the way we always prefixed the aircraft SIR Winston & LADY Clementine out of respect to the fine people & venerable aircraft. Great fun & fond memories of some terric people.

[Kitbag]

OPF, surely not, you placed the pictures in the 'public domain' as explicitly stated in the the preamble to your rather excellent pics.

I'm sure LJ did not wish to claim the image as his own, it seems to be linked to your photo hosting site, he has made no claim on the image..

[Old Photo.Fanatic]

I may have given the wrong impression.
I did not mean to imply the picture was "Mine only" just that I took it.
I could have worded it better!!!!!!!

I have pm'd Leon , not wishing to make a big deal of this. Asking for accreditation which i understand is normal practice
Its just I was surprised to see the Pic, with no accreditation.
As you rightly point out the pic is in the public domain and I have no problems with reproduction.
Hope this rests easy with everyone now.
Cheers
OPF

[Goprdon]

Dominies replaced the Meteors of 1ANS during 1966.

[Lima Juliet]

Here's an interesting side-bar question. If OPF's picture is here http://www.pprune.org/aviation-history-nostalgia/378894-martin-baker-meteor-photo-call-charlgrove.html and I only point to the picture through it's URL, is that a breach of copyright?

OPF has been very reasonable, but what if it were someone unreasonable? If you only point to the picture via URL and do not claim it to be your own, what exactly have you done wrong? Finally, I would guess that the original poster of the photo has the final option to stop hosting it - thus they retain control?

LJ

[Lima Juliet]

Back on topic, I guess the last RAF owned Meteor was on the "Vintage Pair" that was tragically lost at Mildenhall in 1986?:(

[Lima Juliet]

PS I forgot that the final Meatbox was tragically lost at Coventry in May 88.
http://www.mod.uk/NR/rdonlyres/762C7D7E-7966-423F-8364-752A81751527/0/maas88_11_meteor_t7_wf791_30may88.pdf

Link copyright Ministry of Defence (sorry I couldn't resist!) :ok:

[xtp]

The final Meteors in normal RAF service were, as far as I am aware, at the College of Air Warfare / School of Refresher Flying at Strubby. They were all ferried to Kemble to go out of service in April 1965 at the end of the second ad hoc AFS course whilst the Gnat was having teething troubles at Valley. I was one of the Meteor AFS students bumped off No 9 Gnat course and rode T7 WA593 in formation to Kemble on 2 April 1965 - others went there a little later. My last trip was in F8 WK655 three days later from Strubby.

Later I flew the RAE Meteor T7 XF274 a few times from Farnborugh in early 1974, but after I left it crashed during an asymmetric overshoot on 14 Feb 75.

Afternote:
Meteors continued to be used as target tugs in by the RAF UK and overseas for some years afterwards.

[Milo Minderbinder]

Here's an interesting side-bar question. If OPF's picture is here Martin Baker Meteor Photo.Call. (Charlgrove) (http://www.pprune.org/aviation-history-nostalgia/378894-martin-baker-meteor-photo-call-charlgrove.html) and I only point to the picture through it's URL, is that a breach of copyright?

Thats always been my undestanding - I seem to remember a court case a few years ago where two highland / islands newspapers were fighting over one linking to the others stories, and the case was proved. In that case - IIRC - the offending newspaper was even giving credit ti the original source, but it was still deemed a copyright breach. Wish I could remember the exact details

[Lima Juliet]

Au Contraire, I'm afraid. I've done some digging on this and found this on wikipedia...

The most significant legal fact about inline linking, relative to copyright law considerations, is that the inline linker does not place a copy of the image file on its own Internet server. Rather, the inline linker places a pointer on its Internet server that points to the server on which the proprietor of the image has placed the image file. This pointer causes a user's browser to jump to the proprietor's server and fetch the image file to the user's computer. US courts have considered this a decisive fact in copyright analysis. Thus, in Perfect 10, Inc. v. Amazon.com, Inc.,[5] the United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit explained why inline linking did not violate US copyright law:
Google does not...display a copy of full-size infringing photographic images for purposes of the Copyright Act when Google frames in-line linked images that appear on a user’s computer screen. Because Google’s computers do not store the photographic images, Google does not have a copy of the images for purposes of the Copyright Act. In other words, Google does not have any “material objects...in which a work is fixed...and from which the work can be perceived, reproduced, or otherwise communicated” and thus cannot communicate a copy. Instead of communicating a copy of the image, Google provides HTML instructions that direct a user’s browser to a website publisher’s computer that stores the full-size photographic image. Providing these HTML instructions is not equivalent to showing a copy. First, the HTML instructions are lines of text, not a photographic image. Second, HTML instructions do not themselves cause infringing images to appear on the user’s computer screen. The HTML merely gives the address of the image to the user’s browser. The browser then interacts with the computer that stores the infringing image. It is this interaction that causes an infringing image to appear on the user’s computer screen. Google may facilitate the user’s access to infringing images. However, such assistance raised only contributory liability issues and does not constitute direct infringement of the copyright owner’s display rights. ...While in-line linking and framing may cause some computer users to believe they are viewing a single Google webpage, the Copyright Act...does not protect a copyright holder against [such] acts....

Bottom line, when you search on Google Images then they Inline Link to the images just as PPrune does with it's "insert image" function. If Inline Linking breached Copyright then Google would be bankrupt!!!

Mystery solved. All the very best

LJ

[charliegolf]

Thank you one and all, for the multitude of posts. Whilst my question was answered in spades, it looks like a few happy memories were stirred too. Cheers.

CG

[langleybaston]

I think they were at RAF Nicosia in April 1961 as I arrived, but were soon replaced by Javelins ....... not sure if they were resident or staging through.

[Fareastdriver]

The Changi Target facilities flight operated them until the beginning of 1971. They had a young pilot officer lodged with them who had a long time between courses. Rumour has it he was the last one ever to be sent off solo in a Meteor.

[AARON O'DICKYDIDO]

;)

They were all ferried to Kemble to go out of service in April 1965

I was on a job as part of a 'Crash & Smash' gang working at kemble in 1976/77 and there were a number of Meteors in storage there at that time.

Aaron.

[ancientaviator62]

I remember the Meteors at Changi in 1971 and saw them broken up. If my fading memory serves me right thay were replaced by a Canberra,

[26er]

Don't know about last RAF Meteor flight but my last flight in the RAF was ferrying WH 286 from Chivenor to St Mawgan on 06/06/69 as part of a formation consisting of four Hunters and two Queens of the Sky when the aircraft of 79 Sqn deployed prior to Chivenor runway resurfacing. I've a nice photo of the formation taken from above by an FR 10. Incidentally, in those days there was none of this fluffy naming of Meteors such as Gloria, Albert or even Winston. Whoever was the pillock who came up with that idea?

I first flew a Meteor on 11/07/51 (202 AFS Valley) then CFS Course, 205 AFS (M. St G), 210 AFS (Tarrant Rushton), 34 Sqn, and then managed to keep current at 229 OCU on three tours, Sylt on APC attachment and FEAF Target Facilities Flight Changi when on the staff at HQ224 Gp Seletar. Happy days!

[pr00ne]

Wasn't it the case that FEAF target facilities Meteors weren't replaced by anything? FEAF was in the process of being disbanded when 1574 Flight folded, and when 74 Sqn wrapped up in 1971 there was no further need. I doubt if they were ever replaced by Canberra but, if FEAF had survived, then I very much suspect that would have been the plan, especially as 361 Sqn was due with Canberra T17s? 1574 Flight to be re-equipped with TT18's or a flight of TT18's attached to 361 Sqn was the most probable future had the withdrawal from East of Suez not happened.

[Fareastdriver]

TTF at Changi folded when they lost their Meteors.

[SOSL]

Hi Milo. I know it's a long time since your post #22 but I've found the details.

Netlitigation | Cases | Shetland Times v. Jonathan Wills (http://www.netlitigation.com/netlitigation/cases/shetland.htm)

Rgds SOS

[NutLoose]

It would be nice when all the unpleasantness in Syria is finished to see some of their Meatbox decoys liberated.


Cut and paste the co-ordinates into google maps.

N36 11.22 E037 34.31


They were

Two ex RAF T.7's

Twelve production F.8

Seven ex RAF F.8

Two ex RAF FR.9

Six ex RAF NF.13

Meteors 'found' in Syria - Key Publishing Ltd Aviation Forums (http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?t=101479)

[brokenlink]

Wonder if the NF13's are ex 39 Sqn kit then?

[CharlieJuliet]

Re xtp's comments in #21 above, I too was lucky enough to be on the Strubby course in 1965. On 2 April I sat in the back of VW 427 from Strubby to Kemble - so we must have been in the same push. I went on to fly the target facilities Meteors on 85 Squadron until Jul 65. Looking at my logbook I see that 85 had at least 6 Meteors on strength, in addition to several Canberras. The Meteors soldiered on with 85 for at least a year or so more. However, as has been said, the tugs at Brawdy were still flying well after this.

[Snipe46]

My father, Derek Turner, flew Meteors on and off for a good proportion of his career.

He joined 222 at Leuchars while they were flying Meteors in the early '50s and shortly before they converted to Hunters. A few years later he flew them from Sylt (TT flight I think) and after that I'm guessing he flew them, amongst other types, from Manby/Strubby in the early 60s (could be wrong on that one; too young to remember!).

Early '68 to December 70 he was with 1574 (TT) Flight at Changi. As indicated earlier, the UK was withdrawing from Singapore and the flight folded in the early months of 1971 with a number of the aircraft being handed over to the Singapore Air Force. As far as I'm aware his final hurrah with a Meteor was when he was flying with the RAE at Farnborough in the mid '70s (his usual charges were Comet or BAC-111) and was rather fond of the example they had. As posted earlier, the aircraft was lost in a flying accident and, sadly, the crew killed.

Unfortunately, Derek passed away only a couple of weeks ago. When I have time I intend to spend a little while going through his log books - lots of interesting stuff I'm quite sure!

[NutLoose]

Snipe, you might find this interesting as Jever was tied to Sylt

Jever Steam Laundry - Home Page (http://www.rafjever.org/index.htm)

[Snipe46]

Thanks NutLoose! I was born in Sylt so doubly interesting!

[bruceg]

Snipe I joined 222 Sqn at Thorney Island in Feb 1950 - we had Meteor 4s and moved to Leuchars on 9 May 1950 as a formation of 9 aircraft in 1hr 10mins led by our CO Sqn Ldr Jack Frost DFC. We converted to Meteor 8s in Sep 1950. Plt Off Duncan Simpson was a fellow junior sprog on the squadron. I moved to 66 Sqn (Meteor 8s) at Linton in April 1951. I don't remember your father, Derek, he must have joined after I left. Sorry to hear of his demise. I wonder if Jack Frost was CO when he joined? Before joining the V-Force in 1958 I flew the Meteor Mk4,7,8,9,10,11,12,14 and U15. Serving on 222, 66, 85, IRE Flt Fassberg and ARDU (Woomera S.Australia).

[NutherA2]

NutLoose, are you a JSL shareholder too? :cool:

[Lightning5]

60 Sqn Meteor NF 14 at Tengah until mid 1961, then replaced with Jav 9's. I was there !! Also I believe ( maybe memory failure ) that 81 Sqn at Tengah had Meteor PR's at that time.

[Snipe46]

Hi Bruceg,

Apologies for a tardy response. I've had a look at my father's logbook: his first flight with 222 was in Meteor 7 WF861 on 20 September 1954 and in Meteor 8 'W' the following day. His first flight in a Hunter 1 was on 10 March 1955.

I can't really make out signatures in the logbook to check against the names you mentioned but suspect he arrived after you and the others had moved on.

There's a very nice photo of the squadron's pilots in front of a Hunter. No date but all pilots are named and the CO, I assume, was S/L Cook.

Quite a few interesting photos from other tours including an shot of a Lightning flying alongside an aircraft I don't immediately recognise but not dissimilar to a Lightning and which is flying with undercarriage down Serial no. WG768 (not sure about the 'W'). The photo was printed in November 1966 when my father was with EPTS at Farnbough.

[xtp]

WG768 was the Short SB5.

[BossEyed]

Snipe46, WG768 was a really interesting aircraft - the Short SB5. It was used by the RAE to investigate wing sweep and tailplane positions, and had a part to play in the Lightning development - although IIRC the story goes that English Electric had fixed on the eventual design before the SB5 confirmed it for them!

The aircraft still exists - in the museum at Cosford.

http://www.vicflintham.co.uk/content/post-war-military-aircraft/lightning/sb5.jpg

I'd love to see that pic of it in formation with a Lightning.

[hval]

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8309/8059959144_8450d5371e_c.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8169/8060010894_a1b498349a_c.jpg

[Snipe46]

Thanks xtp and BossEyed!

It'll be a week before I can get my hands on the logbook again but I'll do my best to upload the photo.

In the picture I'm pretty sure SB5 was painted all black (or dark blue) and I think the tail fin was different to the photo above.

[BEagle]

The Short SB5 was a true polymorph - its sweep angle could be set to 3 different values on the ground and it could be fitted with 2 different rear fuselages, one with a T-tail and one with a low set tailplane.

Testing with the SB5 proved that the optimum configuration for the English Electric P1 was as EE had always intended, conferring excellent low-speed handling characteristics.

The SB5 was used by ETPS for many years before being retired to Cosford.

[green granite]

When I was at Bedford it was dark blue underneath and silver on top, but where the tail was I cant be certain but I think on top of the fin.

[Snipe46]

Hi BossEyed,

Here's the promised photo of SB5:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8194/8087015828_5256fa5809_c.jpg