How many people have self sponsored their TR then got a job?

[WX Man]

I'm reading a lot of threads about SSTRs and the woes of getting a job with a TR and no hours.

Does anyone have anecdotes about guys that have got a 737 or a A320 TR and then gone on to get a job?

(and I mean without doing the "500 hours line training" P2F thing- I mean, they just paid the money to someone like CAE then got a job).

[redsnail]

I know of 3 people. They did it in 2002 and 2003. They were successful with easyJet, DHL and Ryanair. This was before easyJet set up their scheme.

I don't recommend it. One guy bought a B737 rating and he got a job on the B767. Fortunately, he didn't have to pay again.

[ReverseFlight]

I know someone who bought a 737 TR then got a job with an Indonesian airline a couple of years back (not p2f).

However, I gather times have changed somewhat and it's not so straightforward now.

[go around flaps15]

I Was hired by Ryanair nearly three years ago. They insisted I paid for the type rating. I reluctantly did. Nearly 2000 hours later I bought a house and live quite comfortably.


No regrets.( Even though looking else where)

Dont pay for a type rating unless their is a job.

End of.

[737max]

I would say the same, you will always hear people say "get a type and you will get a job" but thats not the case, but some people may think differently. If you fancy taking the risk then go for it!! but if you have saved hard for the funds I would sit back and wait cos you will still be doing the same if you got your type done.

[I-AINC]

Last year I got a job on the Learjet 45. My company pay for my rating.

The same for 2 friends of mine: one on the Learjet 60 and the other on the Dornier 328.

Everyone of us has got the job with a full illimited contracts and type payed by the company.

I hope this is good to hear :ok:

[low n' slow]

I've heard of plenty of guys who've paid for their typerating and then didn't get the job... :E

[CGaviator]

Why you want to buy a TR and fly for an airline with low time?
Who get you the ideia that after finish your professional licence you have to fly to airlines?
I don´t understand why the fresh pilots stress to go to airlines instead of getting experience on GA.
Well maybe I understand...Airlines gives you status, uniform, money, cars, girls and you look to GA as a "piece of metal!"
If you are an aviator and aviation passionate you will be on airfields trying to start as dropping paras, tow gliders, tow banners, instructing, aircharter and then when you are on 1500 Hours you could start looking to fly more higher but with another foot in your old airfield where you fly off duty as an instructor or another aerial work.
It should be forbiden to get a TR before reaching the 1500 Hours and if this was taking very serious by all pilots and also regulated by Civil Aviation Authorities sure that today we didn´t have half of problems with unemployment!
Just to finish think about this!
You know that if you go for P2F scheme TR + 500hrs LT wherever in globe, with low hours, the odds of getting a job is very poor!? and you know why? Because airlines have insurance and insurance companies required minimum 1500 hours for crew and if not charge a lot of money with a F/O less than 1500 Hous!
Don´t believe in the bull**** of TRTO believe in yourself and your dignity!

[captain almighty]

An idea would be to pay 2 or 3 times 500 hours line training so that you'll get 1500h...

[767200ER]

Why you want to buy a TR and fly for an airline with low time?
Who get you the ideia that after finish your professional licence you have to fly to airlines?
I don´t understand why the fresh pilots stress to go to airlines instead of getting experience on GA.


Because in europe there are more Jet job vacancies than GA vacancies. The few companies that are hiring for turboprop/light twin work in europe all have very small fleets, <10 aircraft or very high minimum hours requirements. anything from 700 to 1500 multi engine time as a majority which is higher than most accessible jet jobs are asking for.

now lets think realistically about someone who has just finished flight training with a large amount of debt.

Plan A= become an instructor and find work (oversubscribed already) so potentially pay more for a rating with no job guarantee. still then the building of upwards of 1000 hours would take a very long time on a very low salary only going up with the accumulation of experience. As far as the "wait your turn" brigade are concerned that would be a logical option. But with the cost of living and a mountain of debt... who's going to pick that option?

Option B = Stump up the cash and do more hour building. 300 pounds an hour for a twin... for 800 hours is 240,000... even SEP time would cost over 100K. Then they would at least have a chance to find this much famed "G.A work" that is apparently in abundance in europe but everybody is ignoring to rush at a jet job.
Of course there are GA opportunities further a field e.g Africa, but what if they have a young family in Europe somewhere?
I see people in my airline struggling and commuting back home however they can to spend as much time as they can with their families (so called 7/2 roster).
How would that work for them being so much further away? Add to that all the other unknowns in the G.A world which is not as closely regulated as an airline, do tell why they would pick that to prove they have earned their seat in a jet a few years down the line?
Why not get a jet job in europe, and be groomed into airline discipline from day 1 if thats where they're going to end up anyway?
Paying for the priviledge is what seems to be getting peoples goat for the most part. But there is no risk free cost free option here. If you can stump up the cash for a rating, there are those who despise you because it then seems as though all you need is a fat wallet to fly a jet in Europe. And then there are those who think you are jumping the queue and haven't earned your right to fly a jet.

The reality is, 27K gets you a type rating you can use for life (very good training despite every other flaw in the airline of this example) and an opportunity to build solid JAR25 hours that are worth their weight in gold elsewhere.

Lets face it, the self improver route cannot work in europe, there is an oversupply and though you may say well people just shouldn't do the flight training in the first place and find another job until things get better. That is an unrealistic expectation, even if it is the most logical.
I would love it if all airlines would pay for your training from ab-initio then give you a fantastic contract with all the perks you can imagine (even a hat). But i realise that that is not going to happen overnight even if at all (except maybe the hat). Its all well and good telling to someone else to wait... but would you have listened to that same advice? We're all human. and at times we are selfish. ALL of us. Yes, even you.

I would not however condone paying for a type rating without a contract offering you employment for a number of years. i.e stay clear of the TR and 500HR LT schemes.

[JB007]

I know someone, with considerable First Officer experience on a turbo-prop, bought an Airbus rating and joined EZY through Parc Aviation - never made it on line and was chopped during line training, simply a step too far!

There are simply enough 'gambles' in aviation already for people starting out now - don't do it!

[jessie05]

JB007

your post is one of the most terrifying that i have ever read! An experienced FO on TP then gets kicked out with EZY ...why? Did they not like him/her or what?

I have nearly 1800 hrs instructing IFR and would like to move on somewhere, but your post makes me feel particularly uncertain of investing in a SSTR.

Can i ask a general question. Is age a barrier to entry when you have to pay for it yourself? At 45 , would i get the same opportunities as a 250 hr 25 year old?

If the responses are more than 50% negative then i will remain a FI for the next 15 years!! :{

[Callsign Kilo]

your post is one of the most terrifying that i have ever read! An experienced FO on TP then gets kicked out with EZY ...why? Did they not like him/her or what?

It's more than likely to do with ease of transition. It's not unusual for very high time TP pilots or indeed those who have spent much of their careers on SEP or MEP aircraft to struggle on a jet TR course. Some take to it like a duck to water, others sink like a stone. Experience can sometimes count for nothing, and transition to something like a 737 or an A320 can soon establish that all that previous 'experience' can count for little. I've witnessed it. People can accumulate 1,000's of hours learning nothing and developing poor technique. Because you have 'experience' doesn't mean that you are any good. Don't confuse the two! For a direct example simply refer to the Lebanese accident report on ET-ANB B737-800 of Ethiopian Airlines

http://lebcaa.com/pdfs/Final%20Investigation%20Report%20ET%20409.pdf

[KirkyMS]

Citation 560 in 2006
Hawker HS-125 in 2008

Both times after being without any job for more than a year. 50000€. Still paying for both ratings around 1100€ / month. Wouldn´t do that again. If i could turn back time, i would have only paid for a "widebody" biz jet rating -> better salaries in general.

[WX Man]

I think I know the guy who flunked his EZY TR course. If rumours are correct, he got chopped more over bad attitude than bad flying. I think that with a positive attitude, 90% of training captains will help you get through it.

I defo wouldn't pay for my own bizjet rating- bonded, definitely- but fork out for a rating on the off chance? No way. There are far too many variants out there. At least with airliners, if it's your first jet rating you get a 737 or a A320. Period.

JB007- do you know if this is still possible? Pay for a rating, get in with Parc?

FWIW I am not inexperienced and I have done my time in GA. I am now keen to move onto jets, freeing up a GA job for the next wannabe ;)

[angelorange]

Personally know of 5 with JAR UK A320 ratings (mostly CTC) without work and from 1 to 500h on type.

[angelorange]

"the self improver route cannot work in europe"

Actually it worked and continues to work ever since pontius was a pilate. How on earth did we get airborne for over 100 years without self sponsored TRs and P2F!

The truth is there have always been fewer jobs than the TRTOs/Pilot Mills claim.

The system is to blame - it should be harder (not financially) to become a pilot (like military flight training). Not the current multiple guess ATPLs and bog standard EFATO 6 monthly Sim rides.


...easy to fly on AP, more skill to land in Hudson from double engine failure!

[WX Man]

@Angelorange - so you know 5 who don't have work, but how many do you know that self sponsored their way through a CTC A320 rating and did get a job?

(and re. self improver route- I agree, it did work. Unfortunately experienced GA pilots are not flavour of the month for airlines at the moment- a situation which I imagine will continue for a long time).

[angelorange]

I don't know of any successful pilots who self sponsored without a contract (i.e. not on the pre 2008 A320 TRSS EZY, B737 STSR Jet2). Those that got in on the official schemes before that did ok but many weren't very happy about the training. Don't think Jet2 use same TRTO anymore?

Of the 5 I know one got through CTC wings scheme but was messed about and failed Line Check - now unemployed. Others self funded TRs with no hours bar the base trg and one had significant EU LoCo P2F time and was told goodbye after end of those hours.

[JB007]

I'm afraid Callsign Kilo was correct, my friend is a very hardworking individual with an excellent attitude, my comment "a step too far" refers to too big a jump for ability, that is now maturly recognised and Airbus culture. The decision to stop was taken after a great number of line training sectors...

If you've genuinely got the money to pay for an ATPL and then a TR, do your PPL/Multi/IR, buy a share in a good light aircraft and enjoy the fun...Airlines/Big Jets are job insecurity, big politics, a terrible lifestyle and bonus driven management that think pilots are still too high a cost base...this is after all the sacrifices you've made already!

And on that cheery note...