Laptop uncommanded shut-downs.

[G-CPTN]

A few months ago I bought a new Toshiba laptop (from Tesco).

During the first couple of weeks it frequently shut down, sometimes with the BSOD, without apparent cause.

I returned it to Tesco and they replaced it without question.

The replacement seemed to behave 'normally' - at least for the first few weeks, but there have been numerous occasions when the machine has rebooted (losing all unsaved data), often when it was left unattended (so I couldn't monitor the shut-down).

Recently, it has taken to shutting down whilst I am using it, and the sequence seems to be as follows:-

The cooling fan speed and volume increases, even though there is no obstruction of the cooling vents and no increase in the temperature of the air emitted from the vents - ie no evidence that there is any actual overheating, and not accompanied by any complex activity (no graphic rendering or similar task). Only occasionally does the BSOD appear. Immediate rebooting (the machine switches itself off abruptly and completely) is accompanied by increased fan speed and volume and usually results in sudden shutdown requiring rebooting from a 'dead' condition until, after several attempts the OS works and the desktop appears (though, of course, all unsaved documents are 'wiped' without trace. Occasionally it also wipes the memory that allows Firefox to recover windows that were open when the shut-down occurred.

My question is, whether there is a record being logged of these uncommanded sudden shut-downs that I can access and use to explain WTF is going on.

The machine is a Toshiba Satellite C660-21Q Intel P6100 @ 2.00 GHz 6.00 GB RAM 64-bit OS W7 Home Premium SP1.

[mixture]

Does the same occur with the battery not present ? Does the same occur with battery present and DC power not plugged in ?

Do you notice any changes in the usability of the system in the run-up to the enforced shutdown ?

Might be as simple as faulty temperature sensors (would quite possibly likely still require a logic board replacement), but could equally be more sinister.

[green granite]

Sounds like an over-heating processor, unlikely to be dust in one so young, so perhaps there is no heat-sink paste between the processor and it's heat sink.

[WorstGW]

Same symptoms from two different machines doesn't sound like a manufacturing problem, though a quick search for owner reviews did turn up one unlucky buyer who went through several machines with different quality control problems.

G-CPTN, I know you said cooling vents are clear, but just to check, does that include the inlets? I ask because for a while my HP laptop would cut out after half an hour of heavy CPU work, in my case on reboot the BIOS flagged up overheating as the cause: the air inlets are on the base of the machine, and it normally rests on a tabletop when in use. The base is raised slightly by 4 rubber pads, but not enough to give sufficient airflow when the machine is very busy. Keeping the back edge half a cm off the surface solved the problem.

Caveat, I am no Windows expert, most of the time including now my PC runs under Linux, but if anything is being logged, you can display it using the event viewer admin utility. (Probably findable under 'control panels', or type 'event Viewer' into the Start search-box.) Info will be under 'Windows Logs', I'd guess most likely under Setup or System.

Good luck.

WGW

[mad_jock]

have a look in prefmon for any processes that are giving load to the CPU.

wdfmgr is a bastard for that. You can get machines sitting at 60% cpu load for ever and that over heats the processors. If you kill it the cpu load will drop down to about 10 again if you are doing nothing and the temp will drop quite quickly.

Its a prosess which arrives with a western digital external drive and seems to be a particualrly crap bit of software.

[G-CPTN]

Well, I now have a crash report:-
Problem signature:
Problem Event Name: BlueScreen
OS Version: 6.1.7601.2.1.0.768.3
Locale ID: 2057

Additional information about the problem:
BCCode: d1
BCP1: 0000000000000008
BCP2: 0000000000000002
BCP3: 0000000000000000
BCP4: FFFFF88002EA7B72
OS Version: 6_1_7601
Service Pack: 1_0
Product: 768_1

Files that help describe the problem:
C:\Windows\Minidump\012612-23946-01.dmp
C:\Users\ToshibaC660\AppData\Local\Temp\WER-40700-0.sysdata.xml
C:\Windows\Minidump\012612-23946-01.dmp files cannot be opened by Windows (even though I have 'permission'), and C:\Users\ToshibaC660\AppData\Local\Temp\WER-40700-0.sysdata.xml is obviously 'hidden' as no such folder as AppData can be found in C:\Users\ToshibaC660\

There are 32 dmp files in the Minidump folder.

Referring to the cooling - the increase in fan activity occurs when the laptop is well clear of any obstruction and there is no external sign of 'heat'. With the previous machine the shutdown seemed to occur when the batteries reached full charge, but that doesn't seem to be the case with the current machine.

I don't understand 'Does the same occur with the battery not present ?' - I thought that that was a no-no?

Edited to add:-
I found C:\Users\ToshibaC660\AppData\Local\Temp\WER-40700-0.sysdata.xml by using 'Search' but it is 'Access denied'.

[Spurlash2]

If you disable the automatic restart, you may well get a BSOD that you can read. You will then need to manually reboot. Instuctions below.

1. Click on the Start button and then on Control Panel.


2. Click on the System and Security link.

Note: If you're viewing the Small icons or Large icons view of Control Panel, you won't see this link. Simply double-click on the System icon and proceed to Step 4.

3. Click on the System link.

4. In the task pane on the left, click the Advanced system settings link.

5. Locate the Startup and Recovery section near the bottom of the window and click on the Settings button.

6. In the Startup and Recovery window, locate and uncheck the check box next to Automatically restart.

7. Click OK in the Startup and Recovery window.

8. Click OK in the System Properties window.

9. You can now close the System window.

10. From now on, when a problem causes a BSOD or another major error that halts the system, Windows 7 will not force a reboot. You'll have to reboot manually when an error appears.

It won't cure it, but may give some clues. RE your OP, the increase in fan speed and volume sounds like something munching your memory/CPU. Say, a backup routine or virus scan running in the background... or even a search index for Windows. Possibly.

[mad_jock]

It doesn't need to be blocked for some laptops. The fact that you put it on a wood table means that it can't conduct heat away fast enough even with the fan working.

If you type perfmon /res in the search folders and files box it will come up with the cpu load etc.

If you then go to CPU you will be able to see whats going through it.

With nothing running ie blank dersktop etc nothing should be over 20% if your average is sitting up at 60% + you need to find out whats doing it.

[Milo Minderbinder]

I'd suspect that its a generic fault. Check with Toshba - there may well be a voltage issue with the motherboard and a BIOS update may fix it
However the important thing is to speak to Toshiba - they have the resources and knowledge to resolve this, and its clearly a manufacturing issue. Its worth the call - their support team (In Germany from memory) are pretty good

[oldbeefer]

Perfectly OK to run with battery removed.

for the BSODs - bluescreenview is a useful bit of free software that makes it much easier to interpret the BSOD.

[Pontius Navigator]

This post from 2006 puts it down to heating:

My laptop toshiba shut down by itself (http://www.ozzu.com/hardware/laptop-toshiba-shut-down-itself-t67964.html)

or

Help! Toshiba laptop shuts down by itself (crashes) - TechSpot OpenBoards (http://www.techspot.com/vb/topic55717.html) but this one does suggest that BSOD is possibly not heat related.

The majority of the posts are indeed heat related.

There is one other cause - the name begins with T

As Milo says it seems to be a generic fault and the number of posts on the web support that. The solution (or fix) lies with the supplier not the manufacturer.

Problem with getting another replacement is the software and data hassle. Perhaps get an external HDD and copy all your files across then go and hit Tesco for a refund.

If you can make the problem predictable and repeatable then you should have no problems and no fault found when they reformat your machine and 'soak test it' for 5 minutes.

[Milo Minderbinder]

the 2006 issues were usually to do with low-lead solder used on the graphics chps going brittle and failing. Most noticeable on machine with nVidia graphcs, but others were caught as well. Also around then there was a plague of machines with faulty Chinese "wet" capacitors which blew prematurely (allegedly due to a faulty bootlegged recipie).. Neither problem is relevant now.
In this case, two machines from the same production run suggests they both have the same generic hardware fault. The shop isn't going to be able to fix that, except through refund or exchange for a different model.. They have the legal responsibility, but not the tech skills. If you want a machine that is actually going to work as advertised, speak to Tosh. Their tech team ARE good, they can usually turn a machine round within a week (including transit to/from Germany) and I've known them replace failed new machines with new replacements. Call them and see what they say: doing so does not restrict your legal rights WRT the supplier under the sale of goods act. You could still ask for a refund