SEAL's 9....Pirates 0

[SASless]

It seems the USN has done it again....rescued two hostages taken by Somali self proclaimed Pirates who had taken up kidnapping due to the counter piracy operations offshore. During the action....Nine Hostage takers were killed and the two Hostages were taken away safe and sound.

This is what it is all about....now for the B-52's to pass over and drop a few eviction notices!



World News - American hostage in Somalia rescued by US Navy SEALs in overnight raid (http://worldnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/01/25/10229917-american-hostage-in-somalia-rescued-by-us-navy-seals-in-overnight-raid)

[chopper2004]

Absoloutely SASless, nice one

Be reminiscent of Rolling Thunder and Linbecker II :D

I;m guessing it were MH-60S preferably armed with Hellfire on ESSS that did the extraction, from the HSM squadrons.

[Training Risky]

Absolutely flagrant illegal violation of Somalia's sovereignty!

The human rights of those murdered Somali citizens were trampled on by those crusading invaders.

I fully expect all good human rights lawyers to starting queueing up to represent the victim's families...Pr00ne, are you free for the next few years and fancy a nice little earner?:E

[SASless]

Does "sovreignty" require a functioning government? Somalia has been in a state of anarchy for decades now....and has no established government per se.

I would suggest your argument is invalid as there is no government with standing to file the complaint.

But....it was a nice try at pulling up a Lunker from the bottom of the pprune pond!

[Lonewolf_50]

No need for the Buffs.

[BEagle]

Now that's Jenga!

Well done, Navy SEALS! Both hostages safely rescued and a gang of worthless trash soundly eliminated. Keep up the good work - the world needs more people with your courage and skills.

[Horror box]

Any operation in Somalia is going to be quite a task given the logistics required. I am guessing that this was an extremely complex op. A night heli insertion culliminating in a succesful rescue without injury to friendlies or hostages is nothing short of bloody impressive. But that is not the full story. A very clear message is finally being sent to these groups, and that is priceless.
Very, very good job.

[jimgriff]

HALO drop in from Herky bird using commercial air route- Pirates didnt know what had happened until milkman found the stiffs stacked next to the empties in the morning! Calling cards left?:ok:

[SASless]

Lone....I reckon the Buff's with their max throw weight in 500 pounders...or even 1000 pounders....removing the place where the hostages were held...would be a fitting reminder of the price one pays if engaged in such activities.

The hostages were there working in a De-Mining project....directly assisting the Somali people and found themselves held captive. NGO Humanitarian assistance is now very limited in Somalia due to the threat of murder and kidnapping.

I see this as a bit of Nation building that would be worth while.

In the old days....the Western Powers dealt with Pirates and such in a very harsh brutal way...and Pirates found themselves other work if not busy decorating a Yard Arm onboard a warship. (Usually as a Privateer under contract to some government....) and folks were safe to go about their business.

If there is no profit in the business...it soon goes banko.

[just another jocky]

According to BBC News 24, it's the same Navy Seal team that got OBL.

Good work lads. :ok:

[BEagle]

It gets even better (from the Daily Torygraph):

As many as six helicopters were involved in the operation in the early hours of Wednesday.

Two US Navy SEAL teams, landed deep in Somalia’s pirate heartlands and released the aid workers unharmed. Nine pirates died and five were taken captive during the raid.

The Associated Press, citing unnamed officials, claimed that Seal Team Six, the team behind the death of the al-Qaeda leader, was involved in the raid although this could not be confirmed.


I do hope that the five captured pirates will enjoy a little holiday at Guantanamo Bay's finest hotel....

[500N]

BEagle

It would have been even better if it had been 14 pirates died and 2 hostages rescued, but I suppose even in Somalia ROE have to be adhered to.

Anyway, a good job in what would have been a complicated op.

[Hilife]

Calling cards left?:ok:

This wouldn’t happen to be one of those modified Silent Hawk tail booms would it? ;)

[Tinribs]

Fantastic to see a country willing to put themselves out to serve their people

I remember when our sailors were taken by Iranian speedboats and a destroyer stood by and watched for fear of upsetting someone

[Trim Stab]

It is noteworthy that in the last ten years or so the USN Seals have established themselves as the pre-eminent US special forces, seemingly the "go-to" choice ahead of US Army or USMC special forces (or even USAF SF for the pedants).

I suspect there might be some lessons for us here. I have a theory that one reason might be that the Seals select and train direct from civvy street, and are therefore able to attract some very high-calibre recruits who would never countenance having to first go through a few years in the regular forces (as required in US Army and USMC elite forces) before being able to apply for SF selection.

We used to have a similar channel to UK SF ("R" Sqn 22 SAS) and that too used to recruit a handful of unconventional, bright, fit and motivated people direct from civvy street who wanted to do some action-packed soldiering for their fighting-fittest years but didn't want to first pass through the regular army phases that are a necessary part of training for the majority of those seeking a full army career, either as a soldier or as an officer.

That route into 22 SAS has now been closed down as part of SF regimentation, and even the TA SAS(V) now require prior service in (at least) another TA regiment before attempting the TA SF selection.

Given the undoubted recent success of the Seals I wonder whether there might be a lesson for us too to revert to SF selection direct from civvy street.

[Lonewolf_50]

jimgriff: do you know this for a fact, or are your speculating? :confused:

I like the idea, wonder if that was part of the op.

[El Grifo]

According to BBC News 24, it's the same Navy Seal team that got OBL.


Whilst I applaud the excellent effort of the Seals ureservedly, It was reported in very poor taste, a couple of months ago that that particular team were wiped out in a Helo "accident" in Afghanistan/Pakistan, handing a massive PR victory to ruddy Al Qaeda :ugh:

[airborne_artist]

Trim Stab wrote: That route into 22 SAS has now been closed down as part of SF regimentation, and even the TA SAS(V) now require prior service in (at least) another TA regiment before attempting the TA SF selection.

The few who passed my selection way back when Rover was still a big puppy comprised >50% with previous regular service, though not all in green ;)

[mr fish]

that "open water" swim to qualify....whats the distance?

[airborne_artist]

500m for SBS, 200m for Hereford rings a bell

[taxydual]

One part of me can't help wondering................

Last night was the 'State of the Union' speech. This year is a US election year.

Coincidence..............?

[SASless]

Trim,

One of my kinfolk is a US Army Captain....Airborne, Ranger, and now accepted for the SF training pipeline as he made it through the initial selection course. First he has to attend a six month long Captain's Career course before he can begin the two year SF training scheme. That means he will have almost three years of training added to that he got during his four years in ROTC, Basic School, Jump School, and Ranger School. Thus far...he has had a one year deployment to the Sandbox with the 101St Airborne.

With the Navy....he would have gone to some sort of Officer Charm school...then straight to BUDS...and if successful...on to the full SEAL course. The specialty training would all be part of the SEAL training instead of having to jump through all the other hoops enroute.

The SEAL's are as successful as they are because of all the intelligence support and operational support they get from other units and branches of the military and civilian intelligence services. They get the training, money, and turn out a very fine product. The other SpecOps units do as well....and in a lot of cases get very little publicity which we cannot say of the SEAL's.

The job our SF Cavalry did in the early days of the Afghanistan War gets very little recognition....and what they accomplished is amazing. The SEALs have had some tragic failures along the way....usually when they were asked to do something they were not suited for and was outside their mission set.

[airborne_artist]

Oh TD, how can you be so cynical? The US lady is a blonde don't forget :E

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Video/__NEW/tdy_1_mik_hostage_120125.vembedlarge.jpg

[fltlt]

If any of you watched the sotu last night, Obama leaned into Panetta and said "Good job tonight".

[taxydual]

Cynical? Moi? :hmm:

[Trim Stab]

One part of me can't help wondering................

Last night was the 'State of the Union' speech. This year is a US election year.

Coincidence..............?


Depends on the command structure. SF are a strategic force - in the USA perhaps it is true that the White House is too closely involved in their ops, with all the temptations that entails. Thankfully it is not the case in UK yet. Here's hoping it stays that way.

[MightyGem]

Life is starting to resemble a Tom Clancy novel.

[Trim Stab]

I don't disagree with you that US Army and USMC SF have to go through a huge amount of hooplah to get to their goal.

But that may not be the best route at all.

SF are a strategic force - ie capable of operating independently to change the strategic course of a conflict - that requires more than just above average physical courage and endurance - it also requires above average intellectual ability.

Regular armies (as in US Army, USMC) have entirely different objectives in their training. Recruits are drilled to be a small cog in a huge machine - hence it is actually quite difficult to subsequently retrain them to operate outside of that machine. You allude to that yourself in your description of your kinfolk's training - it takes longer to train him than it does to train a Seal.

My thesis is that it is best to select & train strategic SF from motivated, fit and intellectually high-achieving civilians rather than from a smaller pool that has already been filtered by basic military training. This seems to be the route that the USN Seals have adapted rather succesfully.

[airborne_artist]

TS - a good mate who joined Chelsea not long before me went to Hereford (after 12 months in the Para Regt having passed the Desmond's Selection) and left as a WO2.

Go figure.

[Trim Stab]

AA - not sure what your point is (other than to self-aggrandise yourself - Simon?).

My thesis is that selection for UK strategic SF could perhaps be open to all - military as well as civilians. It seems to work well for Seals.

[airborne_artist]

My point was that ex-civvies/STABS can do just as well or better than guys with former regular service. Few make it to WO at Hfd.

Yes, Simon R.

[Scuttled]

El G

Whilst I'm loathe to debate this sort of thing too much on here, SEAL Team 6 did indeed suffer a major loss last year, but to enemy action. Not a crash. It did not wipe out the Team.

The SEAL Teams are structured differently to the smaller UK 'operational' units. They are quite a large formation in SF terms. Not bigger and better, not bigger and worse. Just differently formed.

Minor pick up, not after an argument about it.

[alfred_the_great]

There are 6 Platoons to a Team.

[glojo]

Nice to hear of the rescue but lets not get too carried away with the rambo attitude. It sounds to me more like great intelligence gathering\informants type operation. A few guards all drugged out of their skulls, a quick insertion and an even quicker extraction... (speculation) No casualties and a warning to all those criminals that have chosen their specific life-style.

One isolated house\dwelling and a helo extraction which might also indicate no ground forces left to do any shooting. Would that helo extraction have gone ahead if there were still any nasty people armed with the weaponry that is being thrown down our throats on all the news channels? I think perhaps not.

The Presidential address and the comments made publicly by your President speaks volumes about its planning\implication, as NO WAY would anyone have mentioned this raid 'accidentally'

Excellent news that these hostages have been freed and I think we should now concentrate on the remaining ONE HUNDRED and FIFTY plus remaining souls! I am guessing these murdering thugs that are guarding these people will not be too pleased when they hear about the deaths of their kith and kin!

Congratulations to all involved and my thoughts are with these that are still in the hands of these criminals.

[SASless]

glo....just how much loyalty do you think the Pirates have for one another? First off....they are competitors in the trade are they not...as there are several Tribes and Warlords competing for control of the country (you do keep up on current events in Somalia don't you...). Also....you reckon some of those folks are thinking about the prospects of early retirement should they have to confront some threats to their health ala visits by Western forces SpecOps troops?

Are they taking better measures to deter attacks by those SpecOps forces....certainly...or at least one would think so. They maybe "Skinny's" but they are not stupid people.

Is it not far better to have rescued two....than none?

Does the success of this raid not remind the Pirates/Hostage Takers there is limit to what they can do and get by with....and that there is a line they best not cross for fear of it becoming seen as Terrorism and not simply a business?

If that line gets crossed then it becomes "War" and they know who loses in that eventuality.

Shall there be a loss of life amongst the hostages in the future.....let's pray not but be realistic....there shall always be that risk no matter what we do. That has happened already....remember the four folks on the sailboat?

[El Grifo]

SEAL Team 6 did indeed suffer a major loss last year, but to enemy action. Not a crash.

Yep scuttled, hence the reason I put the word accident in inverted commas.

The media reporting of the loss at the time was very scratchy to say the least.

It is hard to say what was being fed to them of course !!

[Scuttled]

El G

Roger that. Understood. Missed the subtle quotation marks.

Obviously the data released should be sketchy. I don't think anyone would disagree with that. It was a very sad event with the usual stories of personnel who were deployed in replacement for others at short notice etc etc. Not pleasant and many young families were affected.

A tragic loss of some superior servicemen.

As for the pirates, they're fair game. I do have sympathy for those who are involved due to economic circumstances, such as foreign fishing fleets plundering their waters. But they are legitimate targets for specialist units on hostage rescue missions. I am not endorsing illegal state sponsored execution, but if they are an obstruction or resist...... Well, they are unlikely to succeed in their aims.

[0497]

It is noteworthy that in the last ten years or so the USN Seals have established themselves as the pre-eminent US special forces, seemingly the "go-to" choice ahead of US Army or USMC special forces (or even USAF SF for the pedants).


I believe that's just the role they play within USsf. Raiding (high profile) and reconnaissance is their primary job. They don't usually do the 'going native' gigs that USMC and Army units are geared up for.

Some reading if it fancies anyone on US covert ops in Africa: The Secret War in Africa - Military Times (http://militarytimes.com/projects/navy-seals-horn-of-africa/)