Ryanair - reserved seating

[Teaboy24]

Last week made my first flight since the introduction of reserved seating. Noticed that the emergency exit rows are now reserved, on my flight to Berlin these seats were empty as no-one had purchased it.

Is it not a requirement to have some people seated in these rows in case of emergency ? I have been on other airlines and seen cabin crew ask people to move into these rows for safety reasons.

[750XL]

As far as I know you need pax sat in overwing exits not but ones where cabin crew are seated.

[Teaboy24]

Cabin crew were sat at front and back doors.

[ryansf]

CAA rules state that one passenger (or crew if needs be) must be in the vicininty of each overwing exit door. However, Ryanair reports to the IAA so rules may be different...

[wowzz]

As a matter of interest, when it became obvious that these emergency exit seats were vacant, did any pax attempt to move to them? I presume from the fact that they remained empty, that either no pax tried to sit in them, or if they did, the cc stopped them doing so.

[Teaboy24]

wowzz

During boarding, emergency row seats had placards on them saying "reserved seating" . This upset those that had dashed onto aircraft to get these seats, but crew attitude was unless you have paid extra, you cannot sit there. No-one was moved to these seats after boarding completed.

Maybe the crew did not fully understand new procedure from their management.

[Torque Tonight]

I suspect the crews have a better idea of company procedures than you do, and it is not so much crew attitude as company policy.

[edi_local]

Ryanair have adapted their boarding calls to include a bit about the reserved seating and the website has been up to date with the new process for a while now.

I would be annoyed if, having paid extra for the exit row seat (which many airlines charge for, both full service and low cost) to find someone who hadn't paid sitting there from the time of boarding. I would not mind so much if someone moved there on instruction from the crew as they would have just got lucky.

I do wonder how it works on a totally full flight though. If no one purchases the extra leg room seats then eventually someone will get them. I would be inclined to get myself to the end of the boarding que to eventually be "forced" into taking an exit row seat at no charge!

As for people paying extra to get priority boarding then that's up to them, but no one was ever guaranteeing them the exit seats when they paid for that little extra. All it states is they get on first.

[750XL]

Ryanair SOP states that 'reserved seating' must be blocked off and only available to passengers who have paid accordingly. If the flight is full, the seats must remain blocked until there is no other option than to place passengers in the seats. Even if the flight is full and someone turns up with reserved seating, pax sat in that seat will be kicked out :ok:

[wowzz]

Sorry to return to this subject, but under this new seating regime, does it mean that if no-one has purchased extra leg-room seats, and if the flight is not full, the aircraft will take-off and land with no-body sitting at any of the over-wing exits?
Surely this cannot be in the interests of safety?

[ba.fp]

I agree - it is a degradation of safety standards. With any other airline the cabin crew are required to brief the passengers sat in the emergency row NOT only to familiarise themselves with the safe operation of the overwing exits but ALSO to obtain their assent to a request that they agree to assist cabincrew in the event of an emergency evacuation.

If no such consent is obtained and cabin crew are 15 rows distant, how the hell is any control whatever exerted over use of overwing emergency exits?

In have travelled Ryanair twice so far since this regime has been implemented.

On the first flight there were approximately 100 passengers total and none had reserved seats and #1 relented to allow non-paying passengers to use overwing seats.

On the second, there were approximately 130 passengers and there was one surcharged passenger sat next to one of the four overwing exits. Cabin crew refused to let anyone else sit in the remaining spare eleven overwing seats.

[Montezuma]

You may wish to familiarise yourself with EU Ops requirements before you complain about safety, buddy :ugh::ugh::ugh:

[Teaboy24]

As the original poster for this thread, appreciate the various replies but am still puzzled that a flight can operate which is 2/3 full with no-one seated near the overwing emergency exits. Why do we have cabin crew at front and back doors, yet does not matter at the over-wing exits ? Surely someone has to be sat next to over-wing exits to receive a briefing prior to take-off, ohterwise in an emergency you will have a dash to the exits by people who have had no briefing at all.

Assuming I am looking at the right regulations.

EU Ops - Section L254/192 - Passenger Handling for Cabin Crew.

4. "The importance of correct seat allocation with reference to airplane mass and balance. Particular emphasis shall also be given on the seating of disabled passengers, and the necessity of seating able-bodied passengers adjacent to unsupervised exits".

[EEngr]

In the course of my (somewhat limited) flying experience, I have rarely seen exit row seating assigned to 'able bodied*' passengers. I'm guessing that these are reserved for those who pay extra for the leg room.

I've been involved in a few evacuation tests at Boeing and I know how critical proper and rapid handling of these exit doors can be to evacuation timing**.

*I've seen old people, fat people (that look like they'd plug an overwing exit) and tall, skinny people (who need the leg room but don't look like they could lift a plug door). I've even seen parents with kids (I guess they can play on the floor). They do ask that you inform the crew if you feel unable to handle the overwing exit door. But that appears to be voluntary. And after someone paid extra or was awarded the deluxe seat based on frequent flyer/business class status, I'd guess that most people just shut up.

**During evacuation tests, they instruct the 'passenger' adjacent to the door to remove it and place it on the seat. I've always thought SOP was to turn it sideways and pitch it out of the opening. The politically correct response was that they couldn't expect every passenger to accomplish this (even though I can fling one of those like a Frisbee). An engineer told me that the real reason was that they conduct the tests with brand new airplanes and they didn't want me putting a big divot in the top of a wing.

[PAXboy]

For the last ten years, I have presumed that any evacuation (before departure/after landing or emergency land and de-camp) would be a riot.

I presume that the overwing doors, if relying on Pax, will not be opened properly or in a timely fashion.

I presume the worst will happen so that, if I find myself in such a circumstance, I hope to be pleasantly surprised.

Reading about the evacuation of the Costa Concordia, has only served to confirm my pessimism.

[deltahotel]

Flew RYR yesterday, ac about 1/3 full. No-one in overwing seats. CC were asking pax in the rows immediately in front and behind that they were near the emergency exits and would they kindly familiarise themselves with the door procedures.

Not flying pax anymore in my day job, so a bit vague about this. Can someone who does clarify the legality of flying without anyone seatd in the emergency exit rows.

Thanks.

[Skipness One Echo]

Sounds like a safety issue, feels like a safety issue, smells like a safety issue, easily resolved. However there's money involved so won't be until someone dies and the AAIB bollocks someone.

If only we'd known......

[LondonPax]

There seems to be some confusion here about whether (a) it is required to have some pax sitting by the overwing exists or (b) it is not required but if there is someone there they must be able-bodied and have agreed to help in an evacuation. Which is it?

[giffo]

Must be occupied for taxi, take off and landing.


Title: IAA Policy regarding: “The Occupancy of Passenger seats immediately adjacent to Type III, Self-Help, Emergency Exits and the Pre-flight Awareness Briefing of those passengers who occupy them”
1. INTRODUCTION
The purpose of this advisory memorandum is to outline IAA policy, as applicable to aircraft type, with regard to the occupancy of passenger seats at emergency exits where there is no cabin crew presence (self help exits) and to highlight the importance of conducting an appropriate pre flight awareness briefing for those passengers who occupy these seats.
2. REFERENCES
EU OPS, TGL 44, ICAO Annex 6 Part 1, S.I. 61/2006.
3. DETAIL
3.1 Background
The aircraft certification process for emergency evacuation assumes that the seats adjacent to self- help emergency exits are occupied by passengers or in some cases by cabin crew. If these seats are unoccupied, the operation of the self help emergency exit and the subsequent evacuation could be delayed as passengers may not realise that they should open the exits. Passengers would also need to move from their assigned seats to the exits and then familiarise themselves with the operating instructions on the exit placard before opening the exits.
3.2 IAA Policy
3.2.1 It is IAA policy that passenger seats immediately adjacent to self help emergency exits are occupied
during taxi, take-off and landing. This will ensure a speedy and efficient response should a situation arise which warrants an emergency evacuation of the aeroplane. Operations Manual procedures shall take into account the suitability criteria and any restrictions for certain categories of passengers.
3.2.2 Prior to the commencement of taxi, an operator shall ensure that cabin crew conduct an appropriate awareness briefing for those passengers seated immediately adjacent to self help emergency exits. This abbreviated briefing shall determine the passengers’ suitability to occupy the seats and seek their consent to assist in an emergency evacuation should the need arise. The passengers shall be advised to read and understand the operating instructions for the self help emergency exits, which are located on the exit placards and the passenger safety briefing cards.
It shall be made clear to the passengers in the briefing that such exits are designated as “self help emergency exits” and there will be no cabin crewmember presence at them.

[Capot]

Fascinating, isn't it? Passengers MUST be seated in the exit row, presumably so long as there are enough on board to do that. But dear old Ryanair has got this wheeze about demanding extra for using those seats.

I'll be fascinated to see if and how this gets resolved. I'm on them yet again next Monday; convenience, safety and price, as ever, as opposed to any expectations about not having the usual dreadful "passenger experience".

The solution of briefing people who are not in the exit row, while keeping the exit row empty for purely commercial reasons, is so obviously absurd that the IAA MUST stamp on it now. And any passenger asked to take responsibility for opening the exits, while not being allowed to sit in the exit row because he/she hasn't coughed up the extra cash, should politely and very firmly refuse.

It's an impossible task, and directly contravenes the regulations.