New NZ Regional?

[aluminium hail]

So, word from the Hamilton refueller - there is a new regional operation in the wings for New Zealand. Apparently running Jetstreams and -146's.

Maybe Airwork?

[cavemanzk]

Oh no! not another start up to fall victim to NZ!

I have noticed that they have been doing allot of work to the old JetStreams at AKL recently & also airwork has taken owner ship of ZK-JTQ

[Sqwark2000]

Could the Jetstream work be for Vincent's Wellington Air Ambo contract they've whipped from under Lifeflight's nose?

I hear it's a balls up and Vinnies not that interested anymore and Lifeflight giving a terminal date to the contract, which is due before Vinnies will be ready with their Jetstream machines...

[empacher48]

And I thought you were talking about the new ATR operation?? :E

[Howard Hughes]

Jetstream's and 146's can only end in tears...:E

[outboundjetsetter]

New regional? well we need one! Hope someone with some cash can buy 4/5 Avro RJ 's to operate domestic runs!!! there must be some going cheap somewhere!.

[waren9]

Anyone with enough coin to afford 4/5 Avro RJ's should be smart enough to realise that it wont be enough of to build a domestic network worth having and that return on capital will be less than zero.

[Got the horn]

I heard a few months ago there were a bunch of B1900's coming into the country. Something to do with this?

[wingunder]

Oh God please don't let that Muppet JG at ( EX ? ) Air National be involved....be aware....Be Very Aware !!!!! ....it WILL end in tears

[Steve Zissou]

Vincent Aviation definitely not involved

[mattyj]

Those domestic a320s are so fast, smooth and spacious..it would have to be seriously cheap to grind around at fl270 at 350tas in a beat up 146..good luck!!

[27/09]

I heard a few months ago there were a bunch of B1900's coming into the country. Something to do with this?

I thought 1900D's were a bit like rocking horse ****, so where would one get a bunch of these from or does the prospective new entrant (assuming there's one) already own or have access to these aircraft.

[aluminium hail]

Further picking from the grape vine has suggested that it is Airwork looking at this but that it may be no more than a proposal at this stage.

It has apparently got some Air NZ Link managment interested, but that is probably no more than blood lust - and maybe a negotiation tactic? :ouch:

[tartare]

The one phrase I remember from my time at the Koru;

"New Zealand is a one and a half airline market - and Air New Zealand wants to be one and a half airlines!"

[remoak]

Oh God please don't let that Muppet JG at ( EX ? ) Air National be involved....be aware....Be Very Aware !!!!! ....it WILL end in tears

Don't think the CAA would allow that, he's not on their Christmas card list.

I'd be more worried about his old chum BB being involved somehow. Now there's a walking disaster area...

[cavemanzk]

"New Zealand is a one and a half airline market - and Air New Zealand wants to be one and a half airlines!"

And NZ will do anything to insure that will happen.

To date they have removed...
CitiJet
Origin Pacific
Ansett NZ (Qantas NZ)
Air National
Qantas (Jet Connect)

With Jetstar barely makeing ends meet on the NZ market, maybe them too

[Artificial Horizon]

Who says Jetstar is barely making ends meet in New Zealand?? My information says quite the opposite.

[27/09]

To date they have removed...
CitiJet
Origin Pacific
Ansett NZ (Qantas NZ)
Air National
Qantas (Jet Connect)


I don't agree entirely with the last three on your list.

Ansett NZ (Qantas NZ) was pretty well a victim of the Aussie management of Ansett NZ who ran Ansett NZ into the ground then tried to screw over the staff when they wanted to make to books look good when they decided to sell off Ansett NZ.

Air National did it all to themselves, so far as Air NZ was concerned Air National was a very convenient operator to call on to cover schedule disrupts so it's unlikely Air NZ had anything to do with their demise.

Qantas (Jet Connect) was moved sideways by the parent company to make room for Jetstar.

That all said, it's pretty hard for anyone to get a decent toehold in the New Zealand regional market, there isn't the critical mass to support two nationwide regional operators plus you need someone to feed off and onto for main trunk and international.

[baron_beeza]

Wow, a very short list.

There are many more than that.. going back to SPANZ at least.
Air Albatross and Pacifica would have been classics.
The very day Pacifica were due to fly out of Nelson in their Metro... a 8am departure, - there was a Mt Cook 748 sitting outside the terminal also.

I am pretty sure that is how it went. If not is was something equally as obvious and sinister.
We will see if Mr Fyfe has more integrity than his predecessors.
Some how I think business is, well business.

[waren9]

I think Ewan Wilson could probably add the most obvious example to that list.

[oxbow]

Rumours from the HLZ refueller, not related to the Darwin refueller by any chance??:ok:

Methinks the J32 would be a great startup alternative to the 1900, carries similar load, reliable if good maint ($$), lower capital cost. Yes the 146 impossible to compete with the more modern equip but Hey, good charter aircraft. As for another NZ regional, get real, with J32's/146 you would have to have a feed partnership with AirNZ. Would be rather hard to make that happen unless you could prove your credentials and operating standards. Aviation in 2012 is not a place for mavericks.
And just had another thought, why would you startup in a recession!!!!

[27/09]

There are many more than that.. going back to SPANZ at least.
The old Wellington aero club bar had quite a collection of counter checkin signs from airlines of the past.

I think Ewan Wilson could probably add the most obvious example to that list.
Ewan might say so too but he was as much the author of his own demise as anyone else.

Some how I think business is, well business.
Very true.

[27/09]

Methinks the J32 would be a great startup alternative to the 1900, carries similar load, reliable if good maint ($$), lower capital cost.
If the J32 is so good why did Eagle get the 1900D when they also looked closely at the J32 when they upgraded a few years back?

[remoak]

To date they have removed...
CitiJet
Origin Pacific
Ansett NZ (Qantas NZ)
Air National
Qantas (Jet Connect) Agree with 27/09, Air NZ had nothing to do with the last three and very little to do with Origin either.

People with longer memories, however, may want to add Air Nelson (basically put out of business by Air NZ and bought for a dollar by them, if memory serves), and possibly Rex, although that too is a bit of a stretch.

It is possible to succeed as a regional if you get the economics right, for example SoundsAir or Air2there (although how air2there continue to survive is a complete mystery). Neither of those is nationwide, but I'm sure it could be done if somebody with a few hundred million was able to think sufficiently outside the square. If you look at the new Air NZ PP-AA route, you will see pretty high pax figures from the beginning. I wonder how many more pax there are out there for another regional to profit from...

The lesson of the big European regionals, is that you create your own market by stimulating travel with low fares. Companies like Flybe went from near-death to being highly profitable doing just that. It's all niche market stuff.

If the J32 is so good why did Eagle get the 1900D when they also looked closely at the J32 when they upgraded a few years back?

The J32 is better than the B1900 will ever be. More economical engines, and it doesn't need six extra aerodynamic surfaces to get it to fly in a straight line. Being British, the airframe is strong and will easily outlast a Beech.

The answer is economics, as always. Raytheon (who owned Beech at the time) gave them a better deal. Air NZ got the last sixteen to be built, kind of an end-of-line special (just like the Dashes).

[Steve Zissou]

Ahh Rex Aviation ... now that was a great NZ regional airline. Went down with the mother ship unfortunately in 2001 :{. Maybe if Ansett (Qantas) NZ had been our subsidiary things may have been different!

Never thought I'd see the day the 'Rex/Ansett NZ Regional' sign ended up on the side of the Wellington Aero Club bar - that place was like the Grim Reaper for NZ regional airlines. The Aero Club bar itself has gone now, don't know if Air NZ can been blamed for that though.

Apologies for the thread drift. It's been 11 years, time to move on...:ugh:

[waren9]

People with longer memories, however, may want to add Air Nelson (basically put out of business by Air NZ and bought for a dollar by them, if memory serves),

Hmmm

I thought Inglis did ok out of it. Then went and blew it again with Origin. Or you talkin about something else?

[mattyj]

Eagle wanted the Beech..sold HQ a pup and air NZ have been dissatisfied with the little money pits ever since. However as an ex 1900 jockey they rock..go like a rocket ..overpowered and suck jetA.

Steve believe me some of the nights you CAN'T remember in the aeroclub bar were even better than the ones you can :p

[Shredder6]

Was my understanding that one of the main reasons for the selection of the 1900 was due to the performance issues of the Jetstreams out of places like WR, GS, AP, particularly on hot days where the little garretts would run out of puff.

Yes they were expensive but I reckon the right choice.

[waren9]

Thats what I heard too. "All the people, all the bags, all the time..."

[mattyj]

Or the toilet!!

[Yousef Breckenheimer]

On shorter sectors J32 was also often landing weight limited. Min gas everywhere....those were the days....:ok:

[MetGirl]

re Wellington Aero Club bar - we've still got the signs, will have a new bar to display them in one day, no doubt there'll be one or two new signs to add to the collection

[remoak]

I thought Inglis did ok out of it. Then went and blew it again with Origin. Or you talkin about something else?

Inglis got all cocky and announced, in the press, that he was going to take Air NZ on with the NS-WN route and beat them with his Chieftains. A few weeks later Air NZ had a borrowed Mt Cook 748 on the route, complete with hosties and hot food. Air Nelson lasted a few weeks and then folded... sad, because I used to use them a lot for business travel down that way. Part of the deal was that Inglis got to stay on as GM with Air Nelson. He soon got sick of that and started Origin... same basic intention as the original Air Nelson. But guess what... he got cocky again... spent millions building pointless buildings... ran out of money (again). For some reason he though the IRD didn't need paying... or the airports.

As far as J31s and Beech 1900s go, buy the J32EP with water meth and there are really no performance issues worth talking about. The 1900 might be fast, but any aircraft that needs that much "fixing" to make it fly in a straight line is not something I'd want to be involved with. It's just a small executive turboprop that has been stretched way too far.

[jarden]

Kiwi air was real cool had a great livery with kiwi on the tail and did operate the 757 in NZ 1st airline to do so. Thats why they set up Freedom(also had a striking livery).
Newmans air was another competitor wiped off the scene not sure if it was NZ fault in that one.
Will JumpJet get off the ground or will be an airline on paper only?

[27/09]

Newmans Air was taken over by Ansett. We all know what happened after that.

[Skystar320]

B1900D US$38k a mth dry, BAe 32EP US$20,000 a mth dry.

Go figure...

[The Trailing Edge]

I had to check it wasn't April 1st!

http://i.stuff.co.nz/nelson-mail/news/69661139/new-airline-originair-set-to-go

[BNEA320]

has someone put steroids in the water in NZL ?


Note: the NZD$ which was close to par with the AUD$ only a few weeks ago, is now around NZD$1.12-1.13 to the AUD$.


Not sure what it is against the USD$ but their costs are going up.

[reynoldsno1]

I thought Inglis did ok out of it. Then went and blew it again with Origin.
Originair has been announced - operating out of Nelson with two Jetstreams and two destinations. Taking bookings now, apparently, to Wellington and Palmerston North. Crews provided by Air Freight ...?

[DeltaT]

Holey Heck! All these airline start ups at once!
Under what rock do I have to crawl to be discovered for a experienced pilot job?

[Kiwithrottlejockey]

They're taking bookings on their website....


• Originair (http://originair.co.nz)