CPL/IR in own aircraft (UK)

[Burtoni]

I'm wondering if any of you clever people know if it's possible and even where it is possible to undertake CPL and IR training using your own aircraft?.

I'm only planning/needing single engine for both.

I am based at Goodwood.

[RTN11]

I think you would need to register the aircraft with an FTO. Not a big deal, I know someone who did something similar so they could do their aerobatics instructor's rating on their own aircraft through an FTO with an FIC.

Try getting in touch with the FTO you're likely to use to see how open they are to this, some will be more willing than other's I'm sure.

[Whopity]

Perfectly possible, you just need to contact a FTO that conducts CPL and IR training and arrange to have your aircraft added to their approved aircraft. A list of such schools can be found here. (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/srg_lts%20ApprovedSchoolsList_Doc31v105.pdf) Not all FTOs will be approved for SE Courses. For the test the aircraft will need a CAA Doc 7 (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/srg_fcl_07_A.pdf)approval.

[culloden]

just remember that for the CPL Slill Test you need a SEP with retract U/C, variable pitch prop and capable of carrying four people. Bill

[Burtoni]

thanks for all this!

PB

[high wing harry]

Also have a look at the Scales of Equipment in the ANO which will have a list of the minimum equipment you will need (two altimeters and FM immune radios etc for the IR)

If you want to do your IR in your own aircraft you will also need to have instrument screens made - it is possible to get them made so they don't damage the combing in the aircraft but are a bit of a fiddle to allow the P2 side to have a good enough view.

It may be a little pricey but, then again, you may find that your course durations can be closer to the minimums because you are flying an aircraft which is so much more familiar.

Good luck!

[madlandrover]

Yes, very possible, I did an IR course for someone in their own aircraft last year. Surprisingly, even when someone is familiar with an aircraft it doesn't hurt for someone else to look at their flying - suggestions/tweaks can add value to a course.

[Gulfstreamaviator]

The CAA will insist on the aircraft being insured full public transport, the Training Organisation must have operational approval, 4 seats and spec as required by CAA. The screens must be as per CAA spec.


Yes it can be done, I have seen two such aircraft owners approved accordingly, not certain as to the CAA costs to approve.


Glf

[Whopity]

not certain as to the CAA costs to approve.£177 (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/262PLSCorr.pdf)

[peterh337]

Certainly possible. I have done a JAA IR in my own plane, in the UK.

However many (possibly most) FTOs will not handle a customer aircraft. I guess that in some cases they can't be bothered with putting it on their paperwork (though it does seem a trivial exercise) and in other cases they don't want to handle a lower margin customer. I have been told by one FTO that they don't like doing it because too many such customers want something for nothing.

Last year I researched the options for this around Europe and incidentally found that UK seems to be the only place for doing this in an N-reg aircraft. In the rest of JAA-land it has to be EASA-reg, but the % of non-UK FTOs willing to do customer aircraft appears to be miniscule.

You need the insurance clause added (trivial), and Whopity is right re the £177.

The HUGE plus of using your own plane is obviously currency on type, and the training is of more real benefit to you. Also the marginal operating cost is likely to be much lower than that of an FTO one.

Unlike the IR, the CPL can also be done outside JAA-land, it appears, FWIW.

[BillieBob]

UK seems to be the only place for doing this in an N-reg aircraft.Of course there is the added complication of getting approval from the DfT to conduct aerial work in a foreign registered aircraft. Not a difficult exercise but not to be forgotten.

[jez d]

Can anyone explain why an aircraft which is approved for IFR operations requires a separate approval from the CAA before one can carry out IR instruction on it ?

Is it merely a revenue generating exercise or have I missed something ?

I'm not referring to the insurance element, btw.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Well, for example - it might be tandem with the full IFR fit only in one cockpit?

Or might not have dual controls?

Or the instrument fit might be incompatible with the local navaids?

G

[jez d]

Thanks Genghis,

I'll put my head back in its box.

[BillieBob]

There's also the small matter of JAR-FCL 1 - "Only aeroplanes approved by the Authority for training purposes shall be used". This requirement no longer exists under EASA.

[madlandrover]

Can anyone explain why an aircraft which is approved for IFR operations requires a separate approval from the CAA before one can carry out IR instruction on it ?

The SRG2111 approval for instruction is free, £177 is only payable if the aircraft is to be used for a CPL or IR test.

[madlandrover]

No :) renewals within industry are rather simpler.

[sycamore]

Is there a similar ref. for doing an IMCR renewal in a private aircraft,or does it require the same `hoops` to jump thru`.?

[madlandrover]

Again, no - the IMCR renewal is reasonably simple. Standards Doc 25 contains the aircraft requirements (para 2.2 particularly), but it's down to the Examiner conducting the test to check.

[Whopity]

One of the initial approval requirements is for an Examiner to check that the screens are adequate and safe to use. Additionally, it is a check of aircraft equipment; if it did not comply fully, the examiner could refuse to conduct the test and the Skill Test fee would be lost.

[peterh337]

It also appears that if you get one of the recently appointed "industry examiners" the aircraft approval still needs to be done by one of the CAA staff examiners.

For that practical reason it is better for anyone doing this stuff in their own plane to try to book a CAA staff examiner for the test itself, because it can then be done all on the same day.

The DfT permission is currently not an issue at all, and is free, but (according to the guidelines) you won't get it unless you own the plane yourself, or are one of a max four owners, or are one of a max 4 directors of a Ltd Co owning the plane. This precludes flight training and testing in an N-reg plane owned by larger groups, etc.

[Whopity]

because it can then be done all on the same dayDon't bet on it!