Farnair assessment : any information ?

[manucordier]

Hi,

Could someone tell me as much details as possible about the Farnair 2-days-assessment in Basle.

I am not type rated and have only a few hundred hours on piston aircrafts.

Thank you very much.

[dudubrdx]

If you got the money you're good.
Expect ATPL questions, standard, don't even know if they have a look at your answers. Then you're up for 2 interviews. One is easy, relaxed, with an Italian guy, ask all the questions you like.
The second one is with the PFO and Fleet chief. Hardcore 90 minutes. Technical, personnal and introspective questions ( Why would I choose you over the other great looking candidates in the waiting room) End of the day I really felt exhausted. I then had to pass a Sim evaluation on a Frasca 242 :ugh: / Look it up on the internet, it's a really old sim. Expect a pretty difficult SID from BASEL. Then classic.

FYI, I was accpeted 18 months ago, but they decided to only take P2F guys from that point. And one of the FO who had recently joined was kicked out ( officially for performance reasons) to make space for these P2F dudes

[manucordier]

Thanks dudubrdx.

How wil they configure their Frasca, as a light single engine piston ?
Any idea of the speeds and engine parameters ?

[LVL_CHG]

manucordier - When did you apply?

[noox89]

I applied as well. What am not sure about is whether you have guaranteed job after spending 37k CHF. Worst case scenario = type rated on ATR, which is not so common as for example Airbus or Boeing in terms of possible job vacancies. An together with that finish with 400 hours where most of the airlines require minimum 1500/500 on type:D

[CY333]

As far as I know after exchanging a few email with them, they have no need of pilots but offer TR and line training.

[dudubrdx]

ATR is not a common plane, true, but then there are not so many companies flying them. And YES, it is VERY difficult to find a job even with 500 hours on the ATR. Just send fake CVS and see how many interviews you get. Asian companies are not interested in FOs as they have their own local pilots and would rather pay them a TR, so the only options you have are the few caribbean ATR ops or in the Pacific, but good luck with that.
And yes, Farnair will probably thank you for working with them after the 500H, which might take up to 18 months ( 300-350 Hr/year ).
So please think carefully before accepting their offer. Look at what LionAIr and RAM have done to the other 737 pilots...

[dudubrdx]

Twin Engine Turbine/ High speeds. Can't really remenber any of the settings, but I can tell you the NAV/COM setting was completely messed up ( Good luck with the HSI/RMI :} )

EDIT: JJOO I think you should share the first hand experience you have within FARNAIR, just to let peolple know what they're about

[Roope]

dudubrdx: (...) "And yes, Farnair will probably thank you for working with them after the 500H, which might take up to 18 months ( 300-350 Hr/year )."

There's a catch in the actual contract with them. Buying the Line Training will grant you a RHS position on their actual work planes, where you'll be "for 400 hours OR 12 months, whichever comes first"........

Thanks for confirming they fly less than 400 Hr a year. I had this idea in my mind, but wasn't 100% sure.

avoid Farnair.

[figatelix]

I don't know where you guys saw that farnair offers P2F scheme with their line training, but you're wrong.

You get the assessment FIRST, then if you pass ( and many people don't ), you take Type Rating training. ( Yes, indeed you gotta pay for it ).
And then if first officer positions are available, you can fly with them (and GET PAID for it, not the other way around ), for 12 months or 400h whichever comes first as written above. But you can fairly expect a permanent contract after that.

Surely, it's not the best deal on earth, but it's a deal. And it gives a chance to wannabes.

[magicmick]

While I agree with some of the post made by figatelix, in that you do get paid during the 400hrs/ 12 months (I don’t know how much you get paid) I feel that their course is extremely expensive and some of the cost must be for the line flying element.

I have a pdf training brochure from Farnair which states that they charge 33,250 Swiss Francs for TR and line flying, it does not state whether or not any of this cost is for line flying, when you add in the cost of assessment and some theory training the grand total is 37,740 Swiss Francs.

The price quoted for TR and line flying alone equates to about 27,500 Euros or £23,000 Sterling. Aer Arann is offering the rating for 17,000 Euros and Skyblue offer the rating for 16,500 Euros including the 6 take offs and landings required for the rating to be added to your licence.

I suppose what you have to ask is does Farnair have the most expensive ATR rating in Europe or is there a proportion of the money that is charged for line flying?

It would be interesting to hear from people who have been through the course and what has happened to them after the line flying finished.

[figatelix]

While I agree with some of the post made by figatelix, in that you do get paid during the 400hrs/ 12 months (I don’t know how much you get paid) I feel that their course is extremely expensive and some of the cost must be for the line flying element.

Basicaly 2000euro + ID + Uniform + Staff travel to communte in n' out.


The price quoted for TR and line flying alone equates to about 27,500 Euros or £23,000 Sterling. Aer Arann is offering the rating for 17,000 Euros and Skyblue offer the rating for 16,500 Euros including the 6 take offs and landings required for the rating to be added to your licence.

I suppose what you have to ask is does Farnair have the most expensive ATR rating in Europe or is there a proportion of the money that is charged for line flying?

I agree with you. It's a "dissimulated" P2F scheme. At least, you buy a "deal".
But in the end you DO get paid, unlike swiftair.
2000euros nowadays it's crappy. I won't argue on this.

And just for the record, Farnair is faaaaar awayyyy from being the most expensive ATR Type rating in Europe or even in the world.
As a matter of fact, the most expensive one is in France, "Air Corsica".
45 000 euros. ( MCC included ). But yes... You do have a permanent contract with them after the training and the conditions are one of the best in Europe. (Close to Air France ones.)

ANYWAY... ;)

[magicmick]

Hi Figatelix, lots of good information, you’re certainly better informed than me. The 2000 euro per month pay is crappy but it’s better than a poke in the eye with a blunt stick, I suppose you have to deduct taxes and living costs but if you manage to drag the 400hrs for 12 months then you will recover most of the course/ deal costs.

Do you know what the roster is?

I imagine that the flying in a mountainous area like Switzerland is pretty challenging especially for a freshly qualified TR holder.

[seasexsun]

Hi,

Just to correct figatelix, as an ex ATR pilot, and ex Swiftair pilot, I can tell you for sure that you get paid also at Swiftair, as soon as you finish your type rating and you start flying, the salary was around 2500 euros/month more or less depending on your base (you get paid more money when your base is outside Spain, for exemple in Italy, Germany, France, Greece, even India or caribean!, etc..).
Maybe they have changed, it's been a long time now I left, but, I doubt.

As far as I remember the best paid ATR job in Eurpe is Air Contractor. I remember the FOs make 4000-5000 euros/month.

enjoy your flights :cool:

[joaocastro]

If we are already type rated pilots, are we able to apply only for the line training at Farnair?

Or do we need to buy the entire package?

Regards

[joaocastro]

Hello,

Does anyone know what is the total price of the type rating and line training at farnair?

Regards

[dudubrdx]

Hi,
I understand you already have a Type Rating on the ATR. Why not try to find a job instead of a Line Training?

This is exactly what this industry does NOT need right now: STUPID and DESPERATE pilots. I know it's hard, but just hang on there, stay current, keep networking wherever you can, and hope for the best.

[joaocastro]

Hello dudubrdx,

I'm not yet a type rated pilot, I'm looking for the best prices. I asked if it was possible to apply for the line training because from what I know, I need to buy both "type rating and Line training" in the same TRTO, otherwise I won´t be able to apply for the line training.

Belive me, I don´t wont to spend more money. Tanks for the tips.

Regards, and best of luck.

[Job-Seeker]

I have an upcoming telephone interview with Aircrew Training Center in the Netherlands for FarnAir. Any information??
Thx

[dan1165]

Switch off your phone :E ...

[Job-Seeker]

useless post, but funny :)
thanks Dan :)

[wingreencard]

they are too lazy.
they never worked in their life,they think fly a plane is fun!

[JLMF]

any recent experienes from any person that has been doing TR and LT with FARNAIR?

Im about to start..

PM please, I need some help..

regards

[Flyervlieger]

First four that went through TR and LT got offered a new (permanent) contract.

2 more finished their LT and now flying, 4 more will start this month with LT all of them finished already the TR. They all will fly for one year or 500hrs after LT and then the company decides if they hire them.

Chances of getting a job after the 1 year ends or 500hrs after LT? Look at the amount people currently in the P2F programm and remember this company has around 80 pilots.

[a320renewal]

then the company decides if they hire them

of course not, think about it, why should they hire you when you are all runing after farnair trying to give them your damn cash???!!!

there is actually and very long line of desperated zombies ready to give their soul for a few hours of gear retraction , this is how this profession became.

This line is becoming longer and longer, everymonth EU is popping out of the matrix thousand of new qualified "certified pilot" ready to give their parents' money.

Spend all this money in license and rating to fly just a few hours a month, and finish broke with no job is madness!.


got it?

[polaroid]

Guys, I am sure that Farnair asks more or less 1.200euro as assessment fee, then, upon passing, they offer a 27.000 euro TR (+ BT and LT) togheter with a 12 month or 400 hrs contract with "entry" salary...
What do u think about? I personally think that 1200 euro for an assessmento are too much, don't you??? :confused:

[superfire]

I think is too much!
I got an interview date but I don't know if I'll go.....1200€:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleye s::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[polaroid]

JLMF - Hi man, how are stuff going to u with Farnair?
They just contacted me to propose the "1.200€ one-single-day assessment", but I really cannot undersant if their proposal is a good or a fake deal?!? :confused:

[DutchCRJ900driver]

Gosh, it shouldn't get any crazier.....
Pay for assessment €1200? Whatever...

Your own travel and hotel, ok. It shouldn't be a free vacation but that is where it should stop..

[polaroid]

Guys, I just got in contact with a couple of pilots that have been assessed by Farnair via Horizon Fto, and they confirm the impression that is mainly a business to earn as much as possible from unemployed pilots, instead of a selection to choose pilots for a long term professional relationship.
…So I agree with who say to AVOID this kind of (expensive) assessment and job offer

[flying_peanut]

I remember having to make the decision on going for the assessment. I thought long and hard about it and ultimately I was prepared to lose the money because I could never live with wondering what might have been. Well guess what I did lose the money when I stuffed the assessment up and now with that beautiful thing called hindsight I wish I had never bothered. I spent about £1500 in total and will never ever ever spend that sort of money chasing a fast track way into flying a big plane. I have my mind set on working my way up in this industry and paying nothing more, I don't care how long it takes or ultimately if I don't make it to flying a jet. As long as I fly something i'll have achieved what I wanted to. Trust me, unless you are superbly confident that you can nail the sim assessment and waltz through the psychometric testing then save your money and go and take your partner on a holiday in the Caribbean or something. Even if I had of got through I have no idea how I would be treated afterwards but I do know there was no guarantee of a permanent position.

[Aerodramaticist]

P2f, never a good idea. I think that sums it all up.

[polaroid]

There is a big difference on (honest) Companies that assess pilots for a real need, and (unscrupulous) companies taking advantage of the “state of need” of pilots looking for employment.
We must understand that a pilot is a worker, and take advantage of a worker looking for a job is, at least, amoral.
Honest Companies make a first selection based on CV experience, then invite eligible candidates to be assessed ….Without ask any money.
I can understand that the “selection process” is a cost, but this is a company-cost, and is illegal to discharge a company-cost on workers (Pilots) that need a job.
Unscrupulous Companies says that they give a deal selling flight experience, but it’s self-evident that they are only looking to save money hiring for few months First Officers that often pays 3 times a type rating course; That’s why unscrupulous companies do not hire experienced Pilots rated on type, they only wants inexperienced not-rated pilots ready to pay for everything.
That’s how it works; And if for you guys, P2F is a deal, for me is a cheat! If companies need pilots, they should pay them, because a pilot is a worker.