What does 2012 have to offer?! Will it be a good year for the wannabes?!

[PIOSEE]

Hello Ladies and Gentlemen!

I thought I would start a new thread since after all we are in the third week in the New Year. My focus on this thread is to see whether some light can be shed onto the current job situation or lack thereof (at my level). I do understand there is a massive demand for experienced pilots in the Middle East and Asia.

I am in my mid twenties and started my training in 2010 finished mid 2011 (modular course) with all first time passes in everything and the usual bells and whistles. So with that, what now?! I have applied to any and every airline who accepts applications from guys and gals at my level. No joy.

During my training I had pilots from all angles telling me “perfect timing, you are coming out at the right time! You couldn't have timed it better!!” Well I can't say that they're wrong just because I am not hired, but I know of many others who are in the same boat. I do appreciate that 200Hr wannabes are 10 a penny at the moment. The major question is “the shortage!” I have heard this from all major magazines, forums and so on. Will this high demand and lack of pilots ever cause the recruitment drive to trickle down to the likes of myself, or will there always be this miraculous supply of experienced pilots?

On a personal note, I believe one should know where to draw the line. I do expect that I will have to pay for a TR. As for a P2F scheme, no chance! I will choose another profession before being held to ransom. (I don't want this thread to focus on the P2F scheme, as 90% of us probably agree it's a disgrace) I spend my days working part-time, researching, and networking. Doing my best to keep current too e.g. a sim session now and again to keep the scan somewhat fresh and keeping the ATPL theory alive in case of an interview at short notice. Naive as it may sound, I believe with the combined efforts as mentioned above will, at some stage work in my favour. Who knows? I have heavily invested my time, money and my emotional capacity to the cause so giving up isn’t an option.

I do find a lot of people over promise and under deliver, "I'll get you in touch with him, good guy to know!", "yea I can get you an interview at least". All the juicy stuff that a guy like me loves to hear, but hates to realise none of it ever comes anyway near to being close! So I take it with a pinch of salt and try to stay positive at this stage. I do wonder why experienced pilots say things like that to people in my situation. Maybe to massage their ego? Food for thought!

If you have any helpful opinions or advice to the many wannabes like me, who are looking for the first break. It doesn't have to be a shiny jet either! Like what does 2012 hold for aviation? Is the recession combined with the high oil prices the thing that seals our fait to be unemployed for some time?

Hope to see some positive suggestions/opinions!





P.s Please no comments such as “aviation sucks, get out while you can” or anything to that effect. Not wanted here. I’ll say “we” (because I feel I speak for more than just myself) are looking for positive inputs to a tricky situation. No negative feedback that doesn’t do any justice to the journey that we are trying to endeavour. Please remember you were once in our shoes too.

[Roope]

Somewhere I read that in the next 10 years, enormous ammounts of captains will retire, making a huge impact on the industry..
Well, I don't know how progressively this is going to happen, but I have high hopes. Given this + the fact that there's a cadet program at big airlines from time to time + the fact that it can't really be any worse than this, I still have good faith.

[PPRuNe Towers]

I am in my mid twenties and started my training in 2010 finished mid 2011

During my training I had pilots from all angles telling me “perfect timing, you are coming out at the right time! You couldn't have timed it better!!” So too busy to log into PPRuNe through that period then?

Seriously - not being an arse I promise - but that is and was delusional on the part of you and your surrounding 'pilots.'

Get on to the agency sites.

The demand for experienced pilots is right there. It appears to me that you never ask yourselves the simple question. If there are always adverts for the same 10 airlines is it because they are becoming gigantic or does something about their pay, employment practices, personal safety risks, housing or lack of, medical demands or time off policies generally attract only the truly desperate and their adverts are permanent features year after year after year.

Don't be taken in by this apparent demand - it is illusary. There's only one true test of a rising market - pay going up in the left seat and far more advertised jobs for effo's.

Rob

[Bealzebub]

In my own little corner of the industry, I have witnessed 10 cadet pilots being recruited this week. They had (bar 3) only just received their licences last week. I have also seen interviews being offered to experienced type rated pilots for courses starting in the next three months.

It is all about timing, luck, and the route you choose towards the goal you want. I have been saying it for years, and it is just as true today as it was then.

Todays cadets are tommorows experienced pilots. 2012 is forecast to be a very difficult year in the global economic cycle. Despite this, there are opportunities. What you will and won't do, is simply a matter for you. Nobody else is concerned.

Find out where the opportunities are occuring. Find out what you need to be doing in order to compete for one of those opportunities. The people that do succeed may have luck on their side, but they have also invested "time, money and emotional capacity," so what?

There isn't a shortage of 200 hour wannabes, and there never has been. Even in the days when the minimum level for a CPL was 700 hours, there was never a shortage either. Beyond the recognised cadet programmes, airlines are not usually looking for pilots with so little experience. My advice, go out there and look for whatever aerial work vacancies you might be able to compete for. Look for the "stepping stone jobs" that will provide a leg up to the next rung on the career ladder. Fight hard to get the experience that will put you in a place to reach the goals you set. The competition is intense and it is a very saturated marketplace. There are absolutely no guarantees of success, and the attrition rate is high.

One thing is for sure, unless you are very lucky indeed, waiting for airlines to come knocking on your door is never going to happen. Handwringing on these forums will achieve nothing, although you will be in good company. I wouldn't be too quick to restrict your options or announce your moral stance either. All very cathartic I am sure, but again so what?

This might or might not be what you want to hear, but there you go.

[Wezzel]

In my own little corner of the industry, I have witnessed 10 cadet pilots being recruited this week. They had (bar 3) only just received their licences last week. I have also seen interviews being offered to experienced type rated pilots for courses starting in the next three months.

are you serious? This is just lucky or does their flight school have contacts with this airline?
Sending letters all around the world for almost a year now.. still nothing.. :S

[ManUtd1999]

The response of the major airlines in terms of recruitment if and when the recession arrives in 2012 will be crucial. Will BA still continue with their growth plans, what will happen to TCX, MON and other struggling carriers if passenger numbers decline etc. Expansion by the major airlines causes vacancies with regional carriers/low-cost airlines, which in turn provides opportunities for low-houred pilots.

[Peak Tram Driver]

will be a good year for anyone who thinks out the box and is prepared to knock on doors.....anywhere in the world!

[davey147]

There are jobs out there, but from reading what you have said, you will never get one of them, 99% of new pilots make the same mistake.

Sending out letters and CV's to every aviation company on the planet will never get you a job.

Build contacts! get out there! Have you physically been in to every flying club in the country offering your services (it doesnt have to be a flying job). Have you approached airlines and small aircraft operators to see if there are any jobs in ops? handling? cleaning? etc...

Maybe if you do the above, an instructors job or other GA job may come your way, which may get you a contact, which could get you the airline job eventually.

If you havent done any of the above, then you havent attempted to get a job. Applying for a pilots job, doesnt count in this industry.

If you cant be bothered to do the above, then find something else to do.

Good Luck

P.S. I never sent out one CV or applied for any pilots job, and I got a flying job within a month after finishing my flight training.

[zondaracer]

Sending out letters and CV's to every aviation company on the planet will never get you a job.

Exactly. I visited two flying schools and was offered to jobs. One of the schools was slow to get in contact with me and offered me low pay. The other one offered me much better pay and terms, plus I did my FI rating there and then they gave me a flight instructor job. Several instructors from the same school have moved on to 100+ pax jet airline operations via contacts they made while working at the school.

[maxthepilot]

plenty of jobs, I got a job with 200h and now fly jet.

you just need to move your butt out of your house.:ok:

[redsnail]

I do understand there is a massive demand for experienced pilots in the Middle East and Asia. and they are going to have to offer a heck of a lot more to us experienced pilots to tempt us to move.

Think about it, if an experienced pilot is in a good position where they are now, why would we move?

What you also need to appreciate is that many in the ME and Asia want to come back "home"...

Some of us already have moved countries and continents.

Good luck, think outside the box for jobs.

[kestrel101]

Hello everyone,

I hope I am not hi-jacking this thread sort of speak but I can relate to a lot of what the original poster has said.

Apart from the usual scheme's with Ryanair, Lionair etc Is there any other companies that have traditionally taking on low hour cadets?

Jet2, Susi-air, Merpati Airlines. Does anyone care to add to the list?

Please don't turn this into a rant about the various business practices associated with "said" airline, whether it be P2F etc.

Thank you very much for your time.

[speedrestriction]

Uncertainty still prevails in the airline sector and particularly in the UK. The domestic market is soft and the package holiday is suffering as Joe Bloggs on the street hears the drumbeats of a double dip recession and continues feel the pinch of inflation without a corresponding increase in wages. The breakup of the BMI group will change the picture for several different airlines depending on what way that particular cookie crumbles. Hours in the logbook are the key to mobility in the sector.

One of the FOs who I fly with gave up his career as a secondary school teacher, went down a local flying school, got instructing for a few months, got a few hundred hours on light twins, applied online to the airline I work for and got the job. The market was more buoyant at the time but the point I'm making is that if he had sat on his newly minted CPL and waited for the "big break" for a shiny airbus then he might still be waiting now. Each path he chose had its own associated risk but though he didn't know that each step would necessarily lead to the next, at each stage he learnt something new, enjoyed exercising the priviledges of his licence and opened the door to new possibilities.

I don't tell people anymore when or if I think it is a good time to train - its a mug's game. Events of global significance impact very rapidly on the aviation sector. What happens today will lead to hiring or redundancies by the autumn or even sooner perhaps - a much shorter lead in time than the 14-18mths it takes to go from zero to "frozen ATPL."

With the "double dip" looking reasonable likely, nervous boardrooms looking at forward bookings (and in some cases managing staffing levels by offering short term contracts to experienced type qualified pilots) and a possible rise in the price of crude as a result of the EU Iran sanctions I would say that the market for 200hr direct entries into the right hand seat of an airliner will continue to be slow. I think the 2012 jobs market will be kindest to those who are prepared to be flexible.

Chin up!:ok: