Autopilot/autothrottle easa crs signatory

[orion1210]

Following a recent group conversation, and subsequent confusion, regarding crs signatory for autopilot or auto throttle system work, I felt compelled to ask the question on here.

Can an unrestricted B1 only sign for the mechanical items or does the normal rule of thumb 'may certify if simple test without specialist kit' apply?

Does the capabilty of the system restrict this in any way i.e cat I or cat II/III

Despite searching caips, caa and easa, i could not find any regs' in relation to this.

What is your understanding and where are the regs found?

Thanks

[Fargoo]

A category B1 PART-66 /JAR-66 Aircraft Maintenance License shall permit the holder to issue certificates of release to service following maintenance, including aircraft structure, powerplant and mechanical and electrical systems.

Replacement of avionic line replaceable units, requiring simple tests to prove their serviceability, shall also be included in the privileges.

Category B1 shall automatically include the appropriate A subcategory.

The key words are Avionic LRU and Simple test.

It's up to your Pt 145 to define which tasks are acceptable under these rules. If in doubt don't sign for it , get a suitable qualified and experienced B2 guy to do it.

[Fargoo]

EASA - Commission Regulation (EC) No 2042/2003 (http://easa.europa.eu/regulations/regulation-EC-2042-2003.php)

EC 2042/2003 Click that link. It's page 74 of the pdf file that opens.

[orion1210]

Thanks for reminding us of the basic rules but I'm sure there are some more specific regs regarding autoflight. Perhaps its within part M. I'll continue searching today.

[Fargoo]

I never found anything specific within Part M or elsewhere.

If you do please post it up as I believe they are deliberately vague in this respect and leave it up to the airlines to detail the specifics in their own procedures.

[aveng]

Leave it to the B2 - and we'll all have a job:ok:

[mono]

My understanding is that the B1 can indeed replace the LRU, if the fault has been identified by BITE and the subsequent replacement can be confirmed satis by BITE. Box swaps or replacements where BITE has not identified the problem are not allowed (trouble-shooting).

Furthermore, the autopilot cannot be upgraded by the B1. It HAS to be a B2 OR a standard landing (Cat III approach in VMC) is requested to be carried out by the crew. Where, on satisfactory performance is reported by the crew, the B1 can upgrade.

[orion1210]

Mono,

Do these regs come from your specific company procedures or can you point to their location in EASA / CAA docs?

Thanks

[spannersatcx]

ELGD (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/177/8355%20Section%20D_07.pdf) Says "The B1 licence is a mechanical based licence and
permits the holder to issue certificates of release to
service following line maintenance, including aircraft
structure, power plants and mechanical and electrical
systems. Replacement of avionic line replaceable units
requiring simple tests without the use of test equipment
to prove their serviceability is also included within the
privileges of this licence.
You would know if you hold a licence, if you do and didn't, tut tut!

[grounded27]

Question from the west. Are B2's not required by the operator to undergo recurrent LLM/CAT and RVSM training to maintain an aircraft catII/III or RVSM certified? Or is this something that only the FAA expects from it's carriers in general.

[orion1210]

You would know if you hold a licence, if you do and didn't, tut tut!

Per my first post, that is how I've always approached such tasks, however a "far more experienced" engineer tried to tell me caa/easa see it otherwise. I could not find anything to support his arguement, but wanted to be sure I was correct.

For the record, my 145 does not apply any additional regs in this regard.

If a 3rd party operator stipulated the need for independant inspections on autopilot components, in addition to the obvious items, where would this be stated? Who's responsibility would it be to ensure the certifying engineers are aware of these more restrictive regs?

I'm guessing it would either be included in the mx schedule or aoc ops manuals and it would be down to the CAM or if applicable the cat c eng ultimately. Please advise.

Thanks for all your input.

[spannersatcx]

3rd party airlines that are handled will provide an engineering procedures and policy manual, within this manual it would be stated about independant inspections, also those items requiring it specific to that airline.

For example one of the airlines we handle specifies checking brake torque rod restraints as an independant inspection whereas no others do, this is because that particular airline had an incident with one.

[Fargoo]

Here's another link for you

AMC ED 2003/19 Acceptable Means of Compliance. (http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=ed%20decision%202003%2F19%2Frm&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCIQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.easa.europa.eu%2Fws_prod%2Fg%2Fdoc%2FAg ency_Mesures%2FCertification_Spec%2Fdecision_ED_2003_19_RM.p df&ei=o_MaT9i-LIrKsgbjsL1H&usg=AFQjCNEtYvAycXDTL52d2BVINtocTcS00g&cad=rja)

The section in question is worded thus

3. The category B1 licence also permits the certification of work involving avionic
systems, providing the serviceability of the system can be established by a simple
self-test facility, other on-board test systems/equipment or by simple ramp test
equipment. Defect rectification involving test equipment which requires an element of
decision making in its application - other than a simple go/no-go decision - cannot be
certified. Page 248.

That reads to me that a B1 could do the deed on something like a modern Airbus where no test equipment is needed and you just answer a series of yes/no questions on the CMC/CFDS. If it were a DC10 or classic Jumbo then the same could not be said.

Company procedures will dictate who is allowed to upgrade an Autopilot and under what circumstances. I've worked at places where the Autopilot could not be upgraded until the Tech Services department reviewed the history and work actioned and issued a work order to test and then upgrade if the test was ok.

Other firms were more lax and allowed the individual B2 to decide if the upgrade is warranted.

EASA seem to leave it to the operator to put a system in place and give certification privileges as above allowing a B1 to certify so long as the criteria are met.

Some of our customers are very cautious and request MCC contact before deferring anything - an autopilot upgrade without contacting them even by an experienced B2 would result in lots of s**t hitting the fan. :eek:

All you can do really is contact the quality department and ask for guidance.

[Golden Rivet]

a standard landing (Cat III approach in VMC)

what is this 'mythical' standard landing.....:confused:

Please point us to the relevant legislation.

[STSIFCX.SATIS]

'Practise Autoland' is another phrase for it as Standard Landing for some meant they landed it and not George.

[Fargoo]

Standard Landing is a BA ism that's spread a bit.

Also known elsewhere as Simulated Autoland.

Crew monitor the Autoland in good weather clear conditions and report if successful. Some airlines allow an upgrade following this "Standard Landing" others need several "Standard Landings" before allowing the upgrade.

Again, down to company regs. Not sure if there's anything in EU OPS, feel free to spend hours trawling through to check :(

[Golden Rivet]

I can live with the term "simulated autoland".

Without a protected ILS, you'll undoubtedly end up with pilot reports of 'firm' or lands to left or right of the centreline. How are you going to clear it then...?

I stay well away from requesting standard landings and just carry out the company mandated MCDP or BITE tests to upgrade the autoland status.

[STSIFCX.SATIS]

If you've had LOC/GS or RA problems then you can't rely on the BITE tests, so pilot reports are reqd. A request for a Standard landing/Practice autoland means that they are aware a wobbly might be thrown at them.

There are guidelines how far left/right of the CL you are allowed (only guidelines though), but if in doubt downgrade and send it round again. If the pilots aren't happy they'll soon let you know.