RAAF KC-30A

[midsomerjambo]

Would anyone in the know care to comment on whether there's any truth in the rumour I've heard that the RAAF are in the market for a 6th MRTT?

MSJ

[ElTeneleven]

Sorry MSJ, I have not heard anything!

However, if anyone has any contact details of any RAAF KC30 Ground Crew, can they PM me as I am currently in the position as WO Eng on Voyager and would like to discuss the possabilities of an RAF - RAAF exchange scheme.

ETE

[Dengue_Dude]

However, if anyone has any contact details of any RAAF KC30 Ground Crew, can they PM me as I am currently in the position as WO Eng on Voyager and would like to discuss the possabilities of an RAF - RAAF exchange scheme.



I bet . . . best of luck :D

[FoxtrotAlpha18]

There was some talk that Airbus would retain the first MRTT (the one that lost the boom) as a test aircraft, and the RAAF would get a new jet, but this dried up pretty quick.

A new boom has been ordered (at Airbus's cost) to replace the one at the bottom of the Atlantic, but there is no money for a sixth KC-30 for the foreseeable future.

[Andu]

JuliaR Gillard must want another VIP transport to match the size of her ego.

[BBadanov]

A new boom has been ordered (at Airbus's cost) to replace the one at the bottom of the Atlantic, but there is no money for a sixth KC-30 for the foreseeable future.

F/A18, you are quite correct. The prototype and test aircraft, A39-001, is still in France for delivery this year. A39-005 is with QDS in Brisbane undergoing mod, and to be delivered this year. Other three with 33SQN at Amberley. No money for an A39-006!!

[500N]

Could someone have not mixed up rumours / fact
with the 6th C-17 purchase ?

[BBadanov]

Could someone have not mixed up rumours / fact
with the 6th C-17 purchase ?

500N, probably.
State of play with the 6th C-17 I think is that enquiries have been made for an FMS acquisition from USAF production, but I have not heard of a Letter of Accepance (LOA) - precursor to a contract - being issued.

[herkman]

Hate to kill your joy and hopes but airman aircrew have put up the exchange idea for engineers and LM but cannot get the high level support to make it happen.

We had one LM who exchanged with the RAF but that was only for three months and was not continued

Regards

Col

[FoxtrotAlpha18]

Could someone have not mixed up rumours / fact with the 6th C-17 purchase ?

...or possibly with the order for the extra boom?

State of play with the 6th C-17 I think is that enquiries have been made for an FMS acquisition from USAF production, but I have not heard of a Letter of Accepance (LOA) - precursor to a contract - being issued.

Terms and pricing have been returned to Aust, and are waiting for the next NSC to be signed off. A/C is due in 4Q 2012.

[FoxtrotAlpha18]

Merge with thread running in D&G???

[Saintsman]

I would have thought at this stage, British and Australian A330 tanker crew would be better off getting experience on their own operations.

[midsomerjambo]

500N, BB and FA18

For what it's worth, I think I can say categorically that it's not a mix up with the RAAF C-17 programme.

MSJ

[Buster Hyman]

JuliaR Gillard must want another VIP transport to match the size of her ego.
It'll be an A380 then...

[ozbiggles]

Political bias aside for a brief moment I do believe that a bigger aircraft should be available for the PM (of any side).
A 737 with a bed in it doesn't leave much room for anything. I wonder what the 737 crew do for crew rest on it. A aircraft properly fitted with crew rest AND properly crewed would increase the safety and capability of the VIP Sqn.
Just maybe a extra A330 might fit the bill here.
It could also be used at short notice for emergencies and not affect the KC role of the other 5.

[BBadanov]

ozbigglesJust maybe a extra A330 might fit the bill here.
It could also be used at short notice for emergencies and not affect the KC role of the other 5.

biggles,
if you really need one, then it is necessary to have a spare.
Two more - no way!

Actually as F/A18 says about the 6th C-17 being signed off at the next NSC, this Govt is in so much trouble they will not want additional expenditure (to the tune of $1bn) next FY. Remember, FY12/13 "back in surplus". I cannot see them committing additional Defence expenditure next FY, and if it comes from existing forward estimates, then that is a further 1bn out of the existing Defence budget.

[500N]

"It could also be used at short notice for emergencies and not affect the KC role of the other 5"

Question for you.

Why use a VIP aircraft for emergency's when we have a heap of other planes available for hire - which seems to be what the Gov't does when it needs one anyway. And Qantas (and probably others) have always come to the party and provided in times of need - Vietnam, Cyclone Tracy (with help fro the US Air Force) and others.


-

[flighthappens]

RAAF KC30's - no tanking and how late?:rolleyes:

They do have some cute crew atts though judging by the RAAF FB page:D

[Andu]

How many are arriving with no tankering ability? (= VIP transports for Jooliar.)

[ozbiggles]

A debate begins!
I don't see the need for a spare in this case. Revert to 737 or use one of the KC30s if required or hire a jet or use RPT if the govt one doesn't work or is needed for something else.
For the emergency case there is always the case of places and things the charter world can't/won't/not available in time frame or won't be 'cleared' to do.
Bali bombing springs to mind here.
Also I would have this one rigged for medivac work if feasible but C17 probably has this covered now.
I agree funding with the GFC/government debt situation would make it difficult and unlikely but I was saying that about money for the Battlefield lifter too but that seems to be underway ...... but still, believe it when I see it.

[500N]

ozbiggles

What do you mean by "Bali bombing springs to mind here."

I thought Qantas carried heaps of Aussies home or
did I miss something ?

[ozbiggles]

Yes Qantas did
But the vast majority of medivac cases were transported by Hercs and vast majority of medical help arrived by Hercs within 24 hrs.
And RPT jest aren't going to be much good on dirt/small strips if that is what you need.
Hence why Charter isn't always going to be the answer.

[500N]

Bali was an exceptional case though.

Surely having a jet rigged for Medivac work is a waste of a jet / resources
because in reality how often would it really be used and as has been shown, Hercs / C-17 can do the job and set up for it if and when needed.

Just my HO.

[FoxtrotAlpha18]

All RAAF MRTTs are being delivered with tanking gear, and initial trials have been done with classic and Super Hornets. They are working hard to achieve IOC later this year with the pods and hoses, but the boom is still sometime away...

There are plans to take one to Red Flag sometime this year, although these are tentative and, the jet may just be used for dragging the Super Hornets over the pond rather than participating.

There is no scope to operate any as VIP transports - they have been fitted with high capacity pax interiors the same at QF A332s.

[ftrplt]

there have been no trials with Super Hornet, and Super's aren't participating in Red Flag this year.

[Aus_AF]

Surely having a jet rigged for Medivac work is a waste of a jet / resourcesIt wouldn't be left in a Medivac config 24/7, it would be like the Herc, on an as required basis.

[TBM-Legend]

Announced today that RAAF will receive two more KC-30A tankers bringing the total fleet to seven...

[BBadanov]

Minister for Defence – Two additional KC-30A Multi-Role Tanker Transport aircraft for the RAAF


1 July 2015

The Australian Government will purchase two additional KC-30A Multi-Role Tanker Transport aircraft for the Royal Australian Air Force.


The two additional KC-30A aircraft will be delivered in 2018 and provide a substantial increase to the air-to-air refuelling capacity of the RAAF.
Defence has signed an update to the existing acquisition contract with Airbus Defence and Space for the two aircraft and associated conversion at a cost of approximately AUD $408m.


Each KC-30A has a fuel capacity of more than 100 tonnes, and can offload fuel via the 17-metre-long Aerial Refuelling Boom System or the two hose-and-drogue refuelling pods.


The aircraft is capable of refuelling F/A-18A/B Hornets, F/A-18F Super Hornets, E-7A Wedgetail, C-17A Globemasters and other KC-30A aircraft.
In the future it will refuel EA-18G Growler, P-8A Poseidon and the F-35A (Joint Strike Fighter) providing a force-multiplier so aircraft can remain on station longer, extending their range and persistence.


The KC-30A continues to play an important role in the Middle East region as part of Operation OKRA, refuelling both a growing number of Australian and Coalition fighter aircraft.


Since September 2014, the KC-30A deployed to Operation OKRA has delivered more than more than 10,800 tonnes of fuel.
The additional two aircraft will be based at RAAF Base Amberley, increasing our KC-30A fleet to seven.

Media contacts:
Chloe Petch (Minister Andrews’ Office) 0477 395 356
Defence Media Operations (02) 6127 1999

[TBM-Legend]

According to this, the RAAF is getting two-Qantas A330-200's. Nothing unusual in ex-QF birds joining up!


?RAAF orders two additional KC-30A tankers - 7/1/2015 - Flight Global (http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/raaf-orders-two-additional-kc-30a-tankers-414190/)

[ORAC]

Australian tankers to get automatic midair refueling capability (http://www.defensenews.com/articles/australia-tankers-to-get-automatic-midair-refueling-capability)

AVALON, Australia — The Royal Australian Air Force signed a research agreement with Airbus Defence and Space to develop an automatic air-to-air refueling capability for its KC-30A multirole tanker transport aircraft.

Chief of Air Force Air Marshal Leo Davies signed the agreement with Airbus DS boss Fernando Alonso at the 2017 Australian International Airshow at Avalon on Thursday. The agreement will see an RAAF aircraft involved in the testing of the system, which has been under development by Airbus DS for some time. Davies also used the opportunity to announce that the Australian government had signed off on final operational capability for the KC-30A. “A lot of hard work has gone into the development of this capability, and we are now able to go into the next phase,” he said.

The project is a two-year program to develop an automatic refueling capability for the KC-30's aerial refueling boom system and is one of four strategies in Airbus DS’s program for a smarter multirole tanker designed to increase the capability of the aircraft without major modifications. “The automatic air-to-air refueling system is easily retrofitted to our existing aircraft, involving minor hardware changes and upgrades to software,” Davies said. The hardware changes will include the addition of a vertically mounted camera under the aft fuselage of the KC-30A to assist in triangulation and enhance depth perception of the computer-controlled system. The work will most likely involve the occasional use of one of the RAAF’s five KC-30As and is expected to last about two years before the capability is ready for service.

Alonso of Airbus DS also used the occasion to formally launch the SMARTer tanker concept, which is based on four key strategies. Other than the automatic air-to-air refueling system, these include:
Development of the multirole tanker transport as a command and control node.
Big data, which involves the expansion of the A330’s central maintenance computer to include mission equipment, in an effort to provide data for the development of a predictive maintenance program.
A “SpaceDataHighway,” which will improve the communications capabilities of the aircraft, including wideband satellite communications.
"We would not be where we are today on the program without the men and women of the Royal Australian Air Force,” Alonso said. “The aircraft is proven, it works, we’ve sold it and now it’s time to move forward.”

[stilton]

Just to clarify, does this mean the boom operator is not required anymore ?


The receiving aircraft moves into position and the tanker crew presses the 'refuel button'
then its all automatic ?

[SpazSinbad]

Dubai 2015: Auto refuelling for MRTTs 09 Nov 2015 Grant Turnbull
“A human boom operator on the A330 multi-role tanker transport (MRTT) could soon be a thing of the past as Airbus Defence and Space (DS) study ways to automate passing fuel to receiver aircraft.

Feasibility studies of aerial refuelling using an automatic boom are currently taking place, said Miguel Angel Morell, Airbus DS’s head of engineering. ‘This is like automatic parking in cars,’ he explained....

...Morell said that instead of manoeuvring the boom into a receiver aircraft’s receptacle, a boom operator’s workload would be simplified. ‘The only thing the operator would have to do is manage the extension and retraction of the boom.’ ‘With this we reduce the workload and improve efficiency in the system,’ he said.

In cases of severe turbulence, a boom operator could take manual control of the system but Morell explained that in such a scenario a computer’s reaction times would be quicker than a human operator....”
http://www.shephardmedia.com/news/mil-log/dubai-2015-automatic-refuelling-future-mrtts/
____________________________________

Airbus to test automatic boom mode for A330 MRTT 30 JUN 2016 CRAIG HOYLE
“...Operation of the boom is currently a manual task performed by a qualified “boomer”, but the technology being trialled involves the use of real-time video and image processing to track a receiver aircraft’s exact position.

Under the Airbus concept, the operator will control the boom manually – including commanding its extension – until it has been positioned within a required area, close to the receiver aircraft. At this point, its automatic mode would be engaged to complete the contact procedure. “Once in contact it’s hands-free to operate, until manual disconnect,” Morrell says.

Airbus says use of such an automatic capability would result in “improvements in operational and safety aspects” of air-to-air refuelling, and also save time during the process....”
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/airbus-to-test-automatic-boom-mode-for-a330-mrtt-426852/

[ORAC]

Alert 5 » Watch Airbus first automatic air-to-air refueling contacts - Military Aviation News (http://alert5.com/2017/05/10/watch-airbus-first-automatic-air-to-air-refueling-contacts/)

[SpazSinbad]

SCREENshot: Same Video as above at ALERT5 by 'ORAC': https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPmdD3qeUsA

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l261/SpazSinbad/NewNewAllBum/MRTTfirstAutoHookUpMar2017forum.jpg~original (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/SpazSinbad/media/NewNewAllBum/MRTTfirstAutoHookUpMar2017forum.jpg.html)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPmdD3qeUsA

[tartare]

That is pretty cool - makes perfect sense.
Was interesting to have a look inside the KC-135 at Avalon recently and see how basic and `steam-gauge era' the boomers position was...

[TBM-Legend]

Sets the scene for UAV refuelling such as MQ-4C Triton that the RAAF is getting plus others..

[stilton]

So when will the RAF join all other KC30 operators and add a boom ?


Now they have or will operate what ? five large jet types far more suitable
for this method of air refueling, not to mention interoperability with other
forces aircraft.

[ORAC]

Not to worried or interested in the airprox, the TCAS sorted it out and they undoubtedly had them in radar anyway. Much more interested in the boom separations. I’d only heard of the one during trials.


Alert 5 » RAAF KC-30A had near miss with British fighters over Iraq - Military Aviation News (http://alert5.com/2018/01/25/raaf-kc-30a-had-near-miss-with-british-fighters-over-iraq/)

The Australian reports that a Royal Australian Air Force (RAAF) KC-30A tanker flying over Iraq in March 2016 had a near miss with two British Eurofighters. Disaster was averted as the tanker crew was able to see the incoming aircraft on the collision avoidance system and take evasive action.

The news report added that there were two major incidents with the jet’s refueling boom during training in Australia. The boom had failed to disconnect and broke off in both incidents

[D-IFF_ident]

RAAF had a boom nozzle seperation about 2 years ago, not a complete boom separation. The nozzle broke away at the frangible part, as designed, during a receiver training sortie.

There have been 2 MRTT complete boom separations: the first was on a RAAF aircraft flown by an Airbus crew during a training sortie with a Portuguese F16 and the second on a UAE aircraft flown by an Airbus crew during flight test.

[John Eacott]

Re the Eurofighters (Tornadoes?) close encounter: close enough for the crew to hear the noise as they passed.

Great day out yesterday with 33 Squadron RAAF looking over the KC-30 and having a session in the sim: plugging another KC-30 was quite an experience for a helicopter driver, and the RO position at the back of the flight deck makes perfect sense using modern technology to achieve control of the boom.

Apparently the US troops never cease to be impressed when they get to the top of the stairs of a flat grey military aircraft, in the sandpit, to be greeted with a full airline interior and ice cold aircon. Comparisons with the C-130 are sometimes made!