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Aware
15th Jan 2012, 12:26
I have a student who is probably is the best handling pilot I have seen, he could quite easily fly himself around now, as he has the skill.

His problem is the exams, Ive managed to get him through 4 so far, but Nav is proving difficult. I have been to his house for ground school on several occasions. But he never puts in the pre work. He may have I feel dyslexia , I have the same issues so have had to work very hard all the way to get to the ATPL exams standards.

Without significant help he will never pass this exam. He has been flying within a group who are not very organised, and he has picked up a bad attitude to learning I think. IE expecting to do little work and get through the rating.

I feel it a shame, because he can fly.

He needs to put considerable time into this, and is not doing so, the other exams start expiring in April.

I offered to spent time with him over Xmas, he never called, he now wants to start again.

How would you handle this situation ? I know patience and perseverance are a key skill for instructors, but I have expressed so many times to him how important it is to put the work in to complete the license. Some people have to work very hard at it.

Is it now time to say 'if you dont put considerable time in to study no license', and all money spent to date will be wasted, or maybe another approach ?

Agaricus bisporus
15th Jan 2012, 16:29
I tried to read that post and eventually made sense of some of it.
With grammar and punctuation (or lack of it) like that perhaps he just can't understand you?

Poor chap.

foxmoth
15th Jan 2012, 16:41
Even the best instructors have the odd student they do not "click" with, it may be worth letting him try another instructor.

Aware
15th Jan 2012, 17:03
Sorry did read the post, the grammar was bad, hopefully better now.

.

darn
15th Jan 2012, 17:04
Foxmoth - it doesn't sound like they have an issue with not 'clicking', just with the student not putting the work in to pass the ground exams.

It sounds like the OP has put a lot of effort into this student, which should be applauded, sadly the student needs a certain amount of self-motivation and discipline/will-power/determination, call it what you will.

Perhaps he just doesn't want it enough?

You can drag a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

Big Pistons Forever
15th Jan 2012, 17:14
Foxmoth - it doesn't sound like they have an issue with not 'clicking', just with the student not putting the work in to pass the ground exams.

It sounds like the OP has put a lot of effort into this student, which should be applauded, sadly the student needs a certain amount of self-motivation and discipline/will-power/determination, call it what you will.

Perhaps he just doesn't want it enough?

You can drag a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

I had a PPL student like this once, great hands and feet but just did not want to apply himself to get the exam done. He said that the exam was crap and didn't cover anything that mattered which was of course true :O but ultimately irelevant. I finally cut him off and so no flying until he passes the exam. That provided the necessary motivation....

Memphis_bell
15th Jan 2012, 17:24
Hi

This problem is EASILY resolved:

NO flying until application of motivation. He shows no passion for flying, else he would exhaust every possible and conseivable method of not only passing, but passing well.

I'd also congratulate the efforts you have gone to for this particular student - but like a previosu comment mentioned, you cant drage a river to the horse !

kevmusic
15th Jan 2012, 17:30
Could I offer some perspective from outside the box? I have been teaching piano and entering pupils for exams for over 25 years and there have been plenty of times when a pupil hasn't done the work, and I have been genuinely fearful that any work they can do now will be too little, too late, and that they will fail. After some initial reserve, I am now very happy to impart these fears to the pupil/parent. This usually results in a shedload of work being done in the last week, and a scraped pass secured.

Of course, there are differences: there is not quite so much money at stake, for one. But the main difference is that you take a PPL exam when you're ready. With music exams you are entered about 2-3 months in advance, then once you get the appointment you're commited to that date. Despite this, I would still say that the direct, no-compromise approach is the most effective (and the most honest).

Memphis_bell
15th Jan 2012, 17:38
The above comment is correct, but remember, you must pass ALL 7 PPL exams within 18 months from your first exam pass...so you are in fact on a timer.

Heston
15th Jan 2012, 17:54
I agree with what has been said - be firm and frank - if the student cant or wont apply his/her mind to the exams then they will never qualify, so make that clear.

But that raises two questions in my mind:

first, what is the students motivation for learning to fly? Do you know what this is? It will help a lot if you understand it because you will know which emotional levers to pull to get the motivation to pass the exams established. And it has to be to do with motivation - or if its to do with basic ability then they really never can qualify and should be told as much.

secondly, is it just the Nav exam that is the problem? Or all of them? Your post isn't clear on this point. Some students are really quite nervous about the nav exam because of its practical nature.

Overall this sounds like a typical "fear of failure response". You need to understand that many learners (in all fields) that are frightened of failure would rather not try, because then they can say to themselves "well I didn't really try, cos exams are rubbish and irrelevant, so no wonder I failed". That is much less difficult to face than the possibility of having to say "well I failed, even though I really tried". This is why understanding their motivation is so important: it gives you the ammunition to counter this.

Are there any other students you have who have struggled with the exams, maybe failed first time but eventually passed - they could help your student to realise that its not the end of the world if they fail.

A further possibility is the the student has discovered that they don't really want to fly - but can't admit that. So failing the exams is a way out.

Good luck!

H

RTN11
15th Jan 2012, 18:22
I have this a lot. I try my best to organise structured groundschool, give extensive breifings on naviagation, and yet students often do not put in the work at home.

What is the background of this student? I find the worst for putting in the work at home are the young 16-20 year olds who have a lot of other studies going on in their lives and are being funded by mum and dad. Since they are not paying for it they have no real incentive to put the work in at home.

The best for putting the work in seem to be the 30-40 year olds who have saved for ages and are finally in a position to pay for their own licence. They don't take anything for granted, and get the work done when you ask it be done.

The other one to watch out for are the 40-50 year olds who have been very successful in business and think that money will solve any problem. They tend to turn up very unprepared and never put the ground studies in.

With this student, you could say no flying until x number of exams are done, but then he may well take his business elsewhere. Perhaps if you just set a firm deadline he will cram at home and get the pass. Half the problem is that there is no fixed exam date, the student can take the paper when they feel ready, and often they never feel all that ready.

Genghis the Engineer
15th Jan 2012, 18:46
I'm going to offer an alternative possibility (not to discount what other people have been suggested, but because I see another possible answer).

I have come across a lot of people in my life, including the chunk of my life that I spent teaching in universities, and the larger chunk I've spent teaching in dojos, who just don't know how to study. If they reach adulthood with that lack of knowledge still there, it becomes something of a phobia - they firmly believe that they cannot study, cannot learn, cannot pass exams. So they deal with it by not trying.

So, I'm going to suggest that perhaps it's not threats of a stop in flying, or a good kick up the backside that are needed. Maybe what they need is help with *how* to learn groundschool material.

There are various strategies of-course, but all of those strategies require structured working, active (writing / practicing) learning. Left to their own devices many students (particularly anybody under 30 these days, or at the other end those just a long way from any formal education) will default to simply trying to read the material, which seldom works for anybody. Possibly if you can show the student that this learning process is not too unpleasant an occupation, and importantly that it works and he'll pass and then get on with the fun stuff, you'll sort things out.


And if that doesn't do it, also just ask him the straight question as to whether he's planning to get the licence, or is just happy to fly dual or supervised solo, and paying for your time, indefinitely. If the second, enjoy the flying and the money - and stop worrying about him (whilst obviously keeping the door open when he realises that flying for yourself is a lot more fun.)

G

Heston
15th Jan 2012, 18:57
Good point Genghis. Study skills are important. If that's the problem then student can be helped with how to study - there is loads of help available on line for example.

And I certainly know students who may never qualify, but are happy to fly for fun with an instructor (need still to be lessons of course)

H

BEagle
15th Jan 2012, 19:44
The Club where I used to be CFI had a very straightforward solution:

1. You can sit any exams at any time. Just book a time. And they're free for a first attempt, but will attract a fee for the second attempt. Fail twice and we won't let you try again until you've been to a specialist ground instructor.

2. No solo circuit consolidation nor any further dual flights until you've passed Air Law, HP&L and Communications(PPL).

3. No solo navigation nor any further dual flights until you've passed Navigation, FP&P and Meteorology.

4. No Q X-C until you've passed RTF practical.

5. BAD WEATHER FOR FLYING = GOOD WEATHER FOR EXAMS!

Piper.Classique
15th Jan 2012, 20:26
The above comment is correct, but remember, you must pass ALL 7 PPL exams within 18 months from your first exam pass...so you are in fact on a timer.
Yes, I think most instructors (read, all of us) are aware of this.

Perhaps you should be getting down to nav gen yourself rather than passing so much time on Pprune? May I gently remind you where you are?

A place for instructors to communicate with one anotherAs in: one another. Feel free to return to this forum when you have some sort of instructor rating, do.

Big Pistons Forever
15th Jan 2012, 20:34
Yes, I think most instructors (read, all of us) are aware of this.

Perhaps you should be getting down to nav gen yourself rather than passing so much time on Pprune? May I gently remind you where you are?

As in: one another. Feel free to return to this forum when you have some sort of instructor rating, do.

I personally do not have any problem with non instructors posting on here, Pilot DAR being one excellent example, and I do not mind students posting either, although in their case I would suggest that the posts should be in form of a question not a student telling instructors what the answer is, or chiming in with an opinion on how to teach something......

Duchess_Driver
15th Jan 2012, 21:29
You say he's a good handling pilot... May I ask what his flight planning is like for an actual navigation trip? Does he, can he? Whats his airmanship and technical understanding like of Nav (and the other subjects)? What was he like for the exams he's already passed?

As Genghis has intimated...it may be just his learning style that is the problem...

If he can do the stuff in 'real life' in real time it may be just exam nerves.

External stressors?

Piper.Classique
15th Jan 2012, 21:30
Well, Big Pistons, I think we are in violent agreement here. Maybe I was a bit unnecessarily firm, though.:(

Memphis_bell
15th Jan 2012, 22:48
Dutchess_Driver:

Yes i feel you could have a valid point here - i too agree with the response Genghis made with regards to learning style - maybe a consideration should be made to this. Does he better respond to personal 1 on 1 learning ?....is he more a visual learner ? as suupose to a more auditory style (does he respond well to text books....listening ? ) perhaps different learning styles should be applied.

Piper.Classique - ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz !

Aware
17th Jan 2012, 11:43
An update on this situation. I sent an email to group members asking for help. One of them replied to me, I got 100% in all my PPL exams, Im a maths graduate and I love Nav, also considering becoming an instructor, so would be happy to help this student. So from next week he is having 1 to 1 with the group member. With a view to sitting exam in early Feb.

Genghis the Engineer
17th Jan 2012, 12:00
An update on this situation. I sent an email to group members asking for help. One of them replied to me, I got 100% in all my PPL exams, Im a maths graduate and I love Nav, also considering becoming an instructor, so would be happy to help this student. So from next week he is having 1 to 1 with the group member. With a view to sitting exam in early Feb.

Sounds like a perfect result to me!

G

Genghis the Engineer
20th Jan 2012, 10:42
This just came to me from an academic mailing list, and might be quite valuable in dealing with students who haven't got a workable strategy for ground school "self teach"...


TP Msg. #1145 Helping Difficult Students Read Difficult Texts

Armed with a yellow highlighter but with no apparent strategy for using it and hampered by lack of knowledge of how skilled readers actually go about reading, our students often feel overwhelmed by college reading assignments. The aim of this chapter is to suggest ways that we can help students become stronger readers, empowered by the strategies that we ourselves use when we encounter difficult texts.

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The posting below looks at eleven contributing causes of students' reading difficulties. It is from Chapter 9, Helping Difficult Students Read Difficult Texts, in the book, Engaging Ideas : The Professor's Guide to Integrating Writing, Critical Thinking, and Active Learning in the Classroom, by John C. Bean. Second edition. Published by Jossey-Bass, A Wiley Imprint. 989 Market Street San Francisco, CA 94103-1741—Jossey-Bass::Jossey-Bass (http://www.josseybass.com). Copyright (c) 2011 by John Wiley & Sons, Inc. All rights reserved. Reprinted with permission.

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Rick Reis
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UP NEXT: Designing and Delivering Effective Lectures


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Helping Difficult Students Read Texts

Whenever teachers discuss problems with student writing or critical thinking, they inevitably turn also to problems of student reading. Just as speaking and listening skills are intertwined, so too are writing and reading skills. Many of today's students are inexperienced readers, overwhelmed by the density of their college textbooks and baffled by the strangeness and complexity of primary sources and by their unfamiliarity with academic discourse. Armed with a yellow highlighter but with no apparent strategy for using it and hampered by lack of knowledge of how skilled readers actually go about reading, our students often feel overwhelmed by college reading assignments. The aim of this chapter is to suggest ways that we can help students become stronger readers, empowered by the strategies that we ourselves use when we encounter difficult texts.

Causes of Students' Reading Difficulties

Before we can help students improve their reading skills, we need to look more closely at the causes of their reading difficulties. Our students have, of course, learned to read in the sense of achieving basic literacy. Except for an occasional student with a reading disability, college students do not need to be taught reading in this ordinary sense. Rather, they need to be taught to read powerfully. In the words of a sociology professor collaborating with a reading theorist (Roberts and Roberts, 2008), students need to become "deep readers," who focus on meaning, as opposed to "surface readers," who focus on facts and information. Drawing on cognitive research in reading, Judith and Keith Roberts (2008) explain that deep reading is processed in "'semantic memory' (rooted in meaning) as opposed to 'episodic memory' (tied to a specific joke, gesture, episode, or mnemonic to aid recall) (p. 126). Deep readers, they claim, interact with texts, devoting psychological energy to the task:

A good reader forms visual images to represent the content being read, connects to emotions, recalls settings and events that are similar to those presented in the reading, predicts what will happen next, asks questions, and thinks about the use of language. One of the most important steps, however, is to connect the manuscript [they] are reading with what [they] already know and to attach the facts, ideas, concepts, or perspectives to that known material [p. 126].

The question we face as educators is how to teach and foster this kind of "deep reading." In this section I identify eleven contributing causes of students' reading difficulties.

1. A School Culture That Rewards Surface Reading

Roberts and Roberts (2008) make a powerful case that our current school culture, which allows savvy students to get decent grades for minimal effort, cultivates surface reading. They argue that the prolific use of quizzes and other kinds of objective tests encourages "surface learning based
in... short-term memorization for a day or two... rather than deep learning that is transformative of one's perspective and involves long-term comprehension" (p. 127). Moreover, they argue, many students don't value a course's "big ideas" because deep learning isn't needed for cumulating a high GPA. (They cite evidence that nearly half of college students spend less than ten hours per week on out-of-class study, including time for writing papers and studying for exams.) Students like multiple choice tests, the authors say, because most objective testing allows students "to skim material a few days before an examination looking for the kinds of facts, definitions, concepts, and other specific information that the particular instructor tends to stress in examinations" (p. 129). When students apply a cost/benefit analysis, they see, quite rationally, that deep reading "may be an unwise use of valuable time if there are no adverse consequences" (p. 129). In short, unless we as teachers evaluate student performance at the levels of analysis, synthesis, and evaluation, "reading at that deeper level will not occur" (p. 129). (For an in-depth critique of school cultures that promote surface learning, see Weimer, 2002.)

2. Students' Resistance to the Time-on-Task Required for Deep Reading

Roberts and Roberts rightly identify students' desire to avoid the deep reading process, which involves substantial time-on-task. When experts read difficult texts, they read slowly and reread often. They struggle with the text to make it comprehensible. They hold confusing passages in mental suspension, having faith that later parts of the text may clarify earlier parts. They "nutshell" passages as they proceed, often writing gist statements in the margins. They read a difficult text a second and a third time, considering first readings as approximations or rough drafts. They interact with the text by asking questions, expressing disagreements, linking the text with other readings or with personal experience.

But resistance to deep reading may involve more than an unwillingness to spend the time. Students may actually misunderstand the reading process. They may believe that experts are speed readers who don't need to struggle. Therefore students assume that their own reading difficulties must stem from their lack of expertise, which makes the text "too hard for them." Consequently, they don't allot the study time needed to read a text deeply.

3. Teachers' Willingness to Lecture over Reading Material

Once students believe that a text is too hard for them, they assume that it is the teacher's job to explain the text to them. Since teachers regularly do so, the students' reading difficulty initiates a vicious circle: Teachers, frustrated by their students' poor reading comprehension, decide to lecture over the assigned texts ("I have to lecture on this material because students are such poor readers"). Meanwhile, teachers' lectures deprive students of the very practice and challenge they need to grow as readers ("I don't have to struggle with this text because the teacher will explain it in class").

4. Failure to Adjust Reading Strategies for Different Purposes

Inexperienced readers are also unaware of how a skilled reader's reading process will vary extensively depending on the reader's purpose. Sternberg (1987) argues that college students—facing enormous amounts of reading— must learn to distinguish among different reading purposes and adjust their reading speed accordingly. Some reading tasks require only skimming for gist, while others require the closest scrutiny of detail. Sternberg gave people a reading comprehension test consisting of four passages; each of which was to be read for a different purpose—one for gist, one for main ideas, one for detail, and one for inference and application. He discovered that good readers varied their reading speed appropriately, spending the most time with passages they were to read for detail, inference, and application. Poor readers, in contrast, read all four passages at the same speed. As Sternberg puts it, poor readers "do not discriminate in their reading time as a function of reading purpose" (p. 186). The lesson here is that we need to help students learn when to read fast and when to read slowly. Not every text requires deep reading.

5. Difficulty in Adjusting Reading Strategies to Different Genres

Besides adjusting reading strategy to purpose, students need to team to adjust reading strategy to genre. Students tend to read all texts as if they were textbooks—linearly from first to last page—looking for facts and information that can be highlighted with a yellow marker. Their tendency to get either lost or bored results partly from their unfamiliarity with the text's genre and the function of that genre within a discourse system. Learning the rhetorical function of different genres takes considerable practice as well as knowledge of a discipline's ways of conducting inquiry and making arguments. Inexperienced readers do not understand, for example, that the author of a peer-reviewed scholarly article joins a conversation of other scholars and tries to stake out a position that offers something new. At a more specific level, they don't understand that an empirical research study in the social or physical sciences requires a different reading strategy from that of a theoretical/interpretive article in the humanities. These genre problems are compounded further when students are assigned challenging primary texts from the Great Books tradition (reading Plato or Darwin, Nietzsche or Sartre, or an archived historical document) or asked to write research papers drawing on contemporary popular culture genres such as op-ed pieces, newspaper articles, trade journals, blogs, or websites.

6. Difficulty in Perceiving the Structure of an Argument as They Read

Unlike experts, inexperienced readers are less apt to chunk complex material into discrete parts with describable functions. They do not say to themselves, for example, "This part is giving evidence for a new reason," "This part maps out an upcoming section," or "This part summarizes an opposing view." Their often indiscriminate, almost random use of the yellow highlighter suggests that they are not representing the text in their minds as a hierarchical structure. To use a metaphor popular among composition instructors, these students are taking an ant's-eye view of the text—crawling through it word by word—rather than a bird's-eye view, seeing the overall structure by attending to mapping statements, section headings, paragraph topic sentences, and so forth.

7. Difficulty in Reconstructing the Text's Original Rhetorical Context

Inexperienced readers often do not see what conversation a text belongs to—what exigency sparked the piece of writing, what question the writer was pondering, what points of view the writer was pushing against, what audience the writer was imagining, what change the writer hoped to bring about in the audience's beliefs or actions—why, in short, the writer put pen to paper or fingers to keyboard. They have difficulty perceiving a real author writing for a real reason out of a real historical moment. Also, inexperienced readers often fail to appreciate the political biases of different magazines and newspapers or the theoretical biases of different academic journals and presses. These problems are closely related to the following one.

8. Difficulty Seeing Themselves in Conversation with the Author

Possibly because they regard texts as sources of inert information rather than as arguments intended to change their view of something, inexperienced readers often do not interact with the texts they read. They don't ask how they, as readers in a particular moment in time, are similar to or different from the author's intended audience. They don't realize that texts have designs upon them and that they need to decide, through their own critical thinking, whether to succumb to or resist the text's power.

9. Difficulty in Assimilating the Unfamiliar

Developmental psychologists have long noted the "cognitive egocentrism" of new college students who have trouble walking in the shoes of persons with unfamiliar views and values (Kurfiss, 1988; Flavell, 1963). No matter what the author really means, students translate those meanings into ideas that they are comfortable with. Thus, to many of our students, a philosophic Idealist is someone with impractical ideas, whereas a Realist is praiseworthy for being levelheaded. The more unfamiliar or more threatening a new idea is, the more students transform it into something from their own psychological neighborhoods. The insight of cognitive psychology here is that these problems are related neither to stupidity nor to intellectual laziness. To use language from brain research, learners must build new concepts upon neural structures already in their brains, and sometimes older structures need to be dismantled before new ones can be built (Zull, 2002).

10. Lack of the "Cultural Literacy" Assumed by the Text's Author

In the jargon of reading theorists, students do not have access to the cultural codes of the text—background information, allusions, common knowledge that the author assumed that the reading audience would know. Knowledge of cultural codes is often essential to making meaning of the text (See Willingham, 2009, pp. 25-52, for a review of cognitive research on reading comprehension and background knowledge.) So significant is this cause that E. D. Hirsch has tried to create a national movement promoting "cultural literacy," lack of which he claims is a prime source of students' reading difficulties in college (Hirsch, 2006; Hirsch, 1988; Hirsch, Kett, and Trefil 1987).

11. Difficulties with Vocabulary and Syntax

Inadequate vocabulary hampers the reading comprehension of many students. Using a dictionary helps considerably, but often students do not appreciate how context affects word meanings, nor do they have a good ear for irony or humor. Moreover, the texts they read often contain technical terms, terms used in unusual ways, terms requiring extensive contextual knowledge, or terms that have undergone meaning changes over time. Additionally, students have difficulty tracking complex sentence structures. Although students may be skilled enough reading syntactically simple texts, they often have trouble with the sentence structure of primary sources or scholarly articles. When they are asked to read a complex sentence aloud, their errors in inflection reveal their difficulty in chunking grammatical units; they have trouble isolating main clauses, distinguishing them from attached and embedded subordinate clauses and phrases.

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Aware
24th Jan 2012, 14:43
Thanks for all the input, I have spoken to the group member who has started tutoring the student, all going well and has seemed to gel with him, so Im keeping my fingers crossesd for February.