Owning/flying N-reg w/FAA license in EU

[ringo55]

Greetings,
I am an US citizen, US-based PPL pilot with ties in the Czech Republic. As I may spend more and more time in CR soon, I'm contemplating keeping a small GA plane (C152) there with N-reg for personal flying. I'm trying to get more info on possibilities, pitfalls, regs (FAA-based, regarding annuals, etc). I'm aware that I should be legal flying N-reg with my FAA license there (even IFR, perhaps), but how about the plane being permanently located there? How about my Czech PPL buddies flying it? (I assume within the CR only). All possible? Anyone has any input? TIA, Ringo.

PS: "Air America" on TV now! Gotta go!!!

[Federation]

Hi Ringo - give these guys a call/email as they have provided me with a similar service so that you can keep things above board. Best option especially if the aircraft will be in the EU - www.JerseyRegistry.com (http://www.JerseyRegistry.com)
Good luck

[ringo55]

Thanks! Will definitely try that.
R

[clivewatson]

two new posters....nothing like free advertising eh?

[flydive1]

One of them joined 4 month before you.;)

[Check 6]

Ringo, I don't see any reason why you can't base and fly it as N registered. Flying IFR could be expensive because of Eurocontrol fees.

Your biggest challenge will be moving it to Europe.

[flyingfemme]

Ringo - if you have a US passport you will not need a trust...that is for us "furriners" who cannot register an aircraft with the FAA.
You may have to pay VAT on your aircraft if you don't already own it; there are concessions for overseas immigrants who import their "personal possessions" but you need to have owned an aircraft for at least six months and the Revenue will impose conditions on you selling it after you get here. VAT rate depends on country of import and will be 20-25% of the assessed value.
Eurocontrol is only applicable to aircraft weighing over 2 tonnes (ish) so a C152 won't have to pay.
Maintenance and pilot checks are not a problem - there are lots of N reg aircraft based in Europe and qualified engineers and instructors to serve them.
The FAA allow holders of foreign licences to fly N registered aircraft in the airspace of the country that issues the licence.
Getting a C152 to Europe from the USA might be a problem - it is too small to ferry and will need to be dismantled and boxed. The costs of relocating such a "low value" aircraft will be disproportionately huge. A more valuable aircraft costs about the same to move and is, thus, "better value".
You may be better advised to buy something over here - there are N registered aircraft available on the "local" market.

[what next]

Eurocontrol is only applicable to aircraft weighing over 2 tonnes (ish) so a C152 won't have to pay.

True for the route charges, but in many countries you will have to pay "approach charges" for every instrument approach even for light aircraft. Here in Germany these approach charges are higher than the landing fees in some places!

[Federation]

Join Date 21st Nov 2008 - suggestion for next christmas, MILKBOTTLE GLASSES!!!

[clivewatson]

Slap on wrist accepted - sorry. Off to Specsavers!

[Pace]

Clive off to spec savers ? You have not been flying the shuttle again ;)

Pace

[L39R]

Hi Ringo,

We had a Cirrus SR22 on N-Reg and based in Czech Republic and I never had any problems. I flew the aircraft all over Europe and Russia with an FAA Validation again with no problems. I know there will be some changes to EU Ops come this April so keep an eye on any restrictions.

[ringo55]

Thanks to all who responded - all valuable tidbits and lots of encouragement. All aspects of the project seem relatively solvable, except perhaps the cost of shipping (might be offset if I find a reasonably-priced specimen). However, several other people outside of this forum alluded to a requirement of N-reg planes having to fly some part of the year in the US airspace. I'm not opposed to reading the FARs, but can somebody point me to the proper FAR paragraph to expedite my research? Or is it really an issue at all for non-commercial flying of N-reg?
Ringo.

[NuName]

No reqirement for N reg to fly in US airspace, none at all.

[S-Works]

Under EASA regs coming into force in April with an implementation date as yet to be confirmed but not long after you will be required to hold dual licences and medicals in order to operate a non EASA aircraft in EASA territory. This means if you have an FAA PPL and IR you will also need a matching EASA one.

[421C]

Under EASA regs coming into force in April with an implementation date as yet to be confirmed but not long after you will be required to hold dual licences and medicals in order to operate a non EASA aircraft in EASA territory. This means if you have an FAA PPL and IR you will also need a matching EASA one.


Only if resident in the EU. Ringo is a US citizen spendig time in the CR. Unless his residency moves to the CR, then he will not need to have EASA pilot qualifications.

[ringo55]

Again, lots of positives! Thanks, 421c and NuName!

[chubbychopper]

Under EASA regs coming into force in April with an implementation date as yet to be confirmed but not long after you will be required to hold dual licences and medicals in order to operate a non EASA aircraft in EASA territory. This means if you have an FAA PPL and IR you will also need a matching EASA one.

Only if resident in the EU. Ringo is a US citizen spendig time in the CR. Unless his residency moves to the CR, then he will not need to have EASA pilot qualifications.

Are you 100% sure about that? Seems like an easy way out for current N reg owner/operators resident and flying in Europe to simply change their place of residence to circumnavigate the FLC content of the new Basic Regulation.

[Chilli Monster]

Chubby

Yes, it would be easy, if it was that easy to change your place of residence. Nonetheless, this is the case - residency in EASA land is the key issue. It's a small loophole, applicable to very few people - but applicable nonetheless.

[ringo55]

Am I to understand that it would mean to get at least the US "green card"? If so, some of us know how "easy" that is.

[Chilli Monster]

No, you just need to be resident outside the countries in which EASA has regulatory oversight. You certainly don't have to be a Green Card holder - I'm British, but currently "resident" in a certain Middle Eastern country. I will therefore fulfill the criteria being talked about.

[Pace]

Under EASA regs coming into force in April with an implementation date as yet to be confirmed but not long after you will be required to hold dual licences and medicals in order to operate a non EASA aircraft in EASA territory.

Bose

That was extended from 2012 to 2014 by EASA with a further extension likely to 2016 while the Bi Lateral agreement with the USA which has already been signed could be further agreed re FCL. As EASA stated dual licences is not their preferred route!
So maybe not quite "soon after unless you clasify soon after as 2-4 years ;)

Regarding ATP and CPL pilots already working in Europe the proposed regulations already run against existing EU employment laws which EASA are aware of hence the silence re that category of licence.

Pace

[Gomrath]

Only if resident in the EU. Ringo is a US citizen spendig time in the CR. Unless his residency moves to the CR, then he will not need to have EASA pilot qualifications.
If he is living and paying taxes in CR then he would be a resident (regardless of also having to file US tax returns on worldwide income).
If he is there intermittently and returning to the US more often than being in the CR - then he would not be wanting to ship an aircraft over - would he?

Ringo55

Am I to understand that it would mean to get at least the US "green card"? If so, some of us know how "easy" that is.
What is the relevance of that comment ?
You say you are a US citizen so what has a I-551 got to do with it?

[ce550]

Hi Folks

Can anyone confirm,I have a FAA ATPL with a CE500 rating,To fly SIC on the N Reg ce500 in Europe do I have to renew my rating,I have logged over 50hrs in the past 12 Months acting as SIC under IFR,Do EASA have anything on this where it can be confirmed.

[NuName]

Your just fine as you are.

[ringo55]

Gomrath,
re Q1: I'm planning to be in EU only intermittently, and yes, I would want to ship the A/C over there, a second one, that is. That's why I am contemplating a C152 - relatively cheap to own as a second plane.

re Q2: In my original message, I also mentioned a potential person with a Czech PPL, who would "exercise" the plane in my absence. Hence the EASA discussion and the need created by its new regulations - partially hypothetical, I admit, but still educational.
R.

[proudprivate]

I thought the basic regulation and FCL 1 talked about the residency of the aircraft operator.

So, if Ringo55 incorporates as "Ringo Flying Services LLC", registered in Nevada, (or Delaware or another US state that doesn't eat your 6-O'Clock out when you start a business), with the spam can as one of the assets, then, as long as the directors of "Ringo Flying Services LLC" determine where and when the aircraft flies, FCL1 doesn't apply.

So if Ringo's Czech friend (Mr. Jaromír Užitečný) has current FAA papers, and he is exercising Ringo's spam can at Ringo Flying Services's request/permission, even Mr. Užitečný doesn't need EASA papers.

Btw, if he did, then all Delta pilots resident in Europe would need EASA papers, which would cause a bit of a stir at ICAO and WTO level...

If the plane is going to stay in the EU for a period longer than X (6 ?) months, it needs to be imported and VAT on it is due. Don't have Mr Užitečný fly into France without proper VAT papers if you value your aircraft and/or Mr Užitečný's friendship.

The ones who are screwed by this regulation are small EU operators that rented out N-reg planes as a business. They can theoretically operate with an non-EU subsidiary operating the aircraft, but then all kinds of tax complications prop up, depending on the EU country (vive la différence !).

[Detling]

Yes, it's a load of old tosh, not enforceable by any means and has just been made up by some fat cat Eurocrats to justify their boring existence.

[peterh337]

The ones really screwed by this regulation are those who cannot set up a non-EU operator, i.e. private owner-pilots.

Any rental operation, even at the light GA level, can set up a non EU company which runs the booking website.

It is an idiotic proposal from idiots whose #1 job is hating the USA (because Europe is morally and intellectually superior, of course...) and they are using GA as a hammer to beat the USA around the head with.

[ringo55]

Pardon me, but I'm getting a bit fuzzy about the whole thing again. As I stated, this aircraft will be Ringo's only, and privately owned. Let's take Mr. Užitečný out of the equation for a minute. Why does Ringo need to start a business? What advantages (or EU-induced necessities) are there in comparison with just a private ownership? Also, based on the previous contribution(s) to this discussion, is it true that if the A/C had been based in the US for 6 (12?) months, and therefore considered a "personal property" (not an imported item), no VAT is due (ever)?

Now, back to Mr. U: Is it also not true that even with just a Czech PPL, he can legally fly the plane *within the Czech Republic*? At least until the EASA rules change? I would definitely not recommend to Mr. U to take the plane abroad, VAT or not.

Ringo

BTW, Proudprivate, and how did you know his first name was Jaromír? ;-)

[proudprivate]

I think it is Article 4,1,c of the basic regulation (http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2008:079:0001:0049:EN:PDF) that makes all the difference :
Ringo is residing in the Community, but Ringo Aviation Services, LLC, with its shiny offices in Winnemucca (http://bestwesterngoldcountryinn.winnemucca.nevada.us.mymotels.com/), is not.


Now, back to Mr. U: Is it also not true that even with just a Czech PPL, he can legally fly the plane *within the Czech Republic*? At least until the EASA rules change?

I'm not familiar with Czech Air Law, so I can't answer that. In the UK, the answer is yes for VFR private flights. To be honest, I would be surprised in CZ. The Czech Republic until the late 80's had its head up the EASA of the Soviet Union and after that did everything to please Germany and EU to get accession money. Unlikely that they would have wanted to rock the boat with American registered aircraft.

Also, based on the previous contribution(s) to this discussion, is it true that if the A/C had been based in the US for 6 (12?) months, and therefore considered a "personal property" (not an imported item), no VAT is due (ever)?

Ask for a binding value added tax ruling from a customs office or the ministry of economic affairs of the member state to be sure. Otherwise, Ringo Aviation Services, LLC could help out annihilating a possible VAT-bill over time (import and export when you take her back home).

[AdamFrisch]

How can they establish residency? In the UK there is no way of doing so without the onus being on you to provide evidence of such. Ask any foreigner how easy it is to open a UK bank account - not easy without providing mountains of utility bills, proof of rent etc. So how the hell are EASA going to establish that I'm a resident there or in any other country that doesn't have personal identification numbers?

[proudprivate]

So how the hell are EASA going to establish that I'm a resident there


EASA is not the enforcing agency. They just sit in their Cologne offices, smoking stuff. Although the passport might give some hints, I don't think enforcement of the rule is going to be very feasable. The problem is insurance. If the flight turns out to be not "legal", then the insurance company might weasel out in case of an accident.