PANAMEDIA

[JFK89]

Hello World!

Does anyone have any real experience with Panamedia, Spain, Son Bonet?

I'm looking for a school to start my modular training CPL/IR MCC and I have found it.

Just wonder if anyone know this school.

Many Thanks!

[okdock]

Dear all,

I want to inform you about a school call in palma de mallorca and valencia, that is having right now around 10 to 12 instructor some of them are getting paid only 350 euros per month working 40 hours per week!!!! others are around 600 euros...those salaries are against the law in Spain...that rubbish must be denounce. Due to lack of pilot jobs, pilots are doing this kind of things, is crazy. That school should change or close. Im asking myself right now how can a school like this exist nowadays. So please dont go to PANAMEDIA, they are serious flight schools in Spain.

[wingreencard]

Im asking myself right now how can a school like this exist nowadaysask instead why workers work for 350 euro? nobody force them, they can stay at home if they wish!

[bluesideoops]

ask instead why workers work for 350 euro? nobody force them, they can stay at home if they wish!

Wingreencard - in case you hadn't noticed there is an economic crisis in Europe with Spain being hardest hit with 25% unemployment. As a result these poor b*stards are probably so desperate to work, in the field that they love, that they have little or no choice and PANAMEDIA are taking full advantage to exploit them. In principle, what you say is correct but I think you are out of touch with what goes on in the real world!

It's a sad reflection of the aviation world that we live in today, easily one of the worst sectors in the world for poor treatment of employees, exploitation and low salaries, especially given the amount of time, money and dedication pilots put into getting into it.

As they say, don't hate the players, hate the game!

[wingreencard]

eh not my fault!I am just an observator!

i 'm not the one who recruit.but if guys accept this situation they can blame themselves only.
Personaly I don't care if some spaniards are killing eachover.

pilots are like a hord of wolfes ready to fight to death for a miserable piece of meat.

It started with Airline pilot who fight to death for a copilot position, now it continues with flight instructor job until they realize it' s not worth the fight..nothing good left in Europe.Pilots are just a bunch of egoist, they got what they deserve.

[rmcb]

Personaly I don't care if some spaniards are killing eachover.

For a Troll you're quite compassionate. The medication must be tempering your mind.

[Dofi27]

welcome to spain

[okdock]

I think all together can try to solve this situation, beginning with ourselves if I as a pilot inform all the possible clients of this school, will people be happy to go there?? this schools like PANAMEDIA and maybe others doing the same should not have anyone, but people dont know what they do. So we have to report and dont accept this or anything that is bad for our pilot trade. Sorry about my english and thanks for reading.

[pablo]

Sorry to say but this is old news. This has been happening in Spain at other schools already. People earning under minimum wages or even working as freelance when in fact they were full-time employees.

This will only end when either authorities or unions (i.e. COPAC/SEPLA) take measures, and I don't see it happening. SEPLA tried something a couple of years back at Airmed but the result was that instructors that made noise were fired anyway and those who wanted to keep their jobs had to accept very low T&Cs.

To make things worse, as someone cared to explain (I did also in a post in another section of the forum) with the current economic situation and unemployment in Spain earning 400€/month as flight instructor may be better than having no job, or earning similar figures working at McDonalds flipping burgers.
I'd rather be flying, at least you keep yourself in the loop and fill up the logbook (and in my particular case I loved teaching, a lot more rewarding than other jobs)

[zondaracer]

I was offered a position at a flying school in Spain at minimum wage and I flat out said "no thanks.". Well, obviously they found someone else willing to work for that pay.

I was fortunate to get hired somewhere else for an actual decent pay rate (in Spain)

[Luke SkyToddler]

What's worse, FIs working and getting paid 500€ a month, or P2F prostitutes paying 30,000€ to sit in the RHS and steal the salary from a real pilot?

[wingreencard]

do you blame yourself when ordering a flat screen TV or an Ipad?I bet majority of people don't care if chinese have a low paid job. they still line up by thousand in front of Apple Stores.

Aviation has never been a well paid job, suck it or leave it!

[pablo]

Luke,

instructing is a real job, wish more people take it more seriously.

Zondaracer, I´m glad you found a better position, we all strive for that, but you can´t really blame a guy for accepting lower t&c´s if he can´t find better. And right now it´s clearly an employers´ market, especially for positions that don´t require a big deal of experience.

[Luke SkyToddler]

Didn't mean it to sound like that Pablo, I was an instructor for 5 years / 2000 hours myself.

That was 20 years ago ... and I was on less than minimum wage in two different schools that I worked at, one in New Zealand and one in the UK.

So it's definitely not a Spain problem, it's an industry problem.

But the industry is sooooo different now.

What I meant to say was, imagine if you made a headline that an airline was not charging new F/O's for hours or rating, and was paying them 500 euro a month, people wouldn't complain it was corrupt and illegal, thousands of wannabes would be scrambling to get the job.

[pablo]

LST, sorry I got you wrong there.
And yes... you are right, many of us would bite an arm for such salary and not paying up front, sadly.
And I agree it's a bigger problem that these low T&Cs and p2f are moving way up the "food-chain".

I do not mean it's just a Spain problem, what I mean to say is that the current situation here only makes things worse, because in most other jobs you will earn similar figures anyway..
At least if I had a job or another career prospect at this point I may not be even consider going back into flying, but the way things are... and I guess I'm not the only one.

[wingreencard]

the main problem with flight schools, is the cost of runing the business: planes cost over 200'000 $, fuel is very expensive, insurance, maintenance, building, salaries, taxes, and interest rate to pay....at the end, the school makes no money or lose money.

You make better money by selling socks or fake chinese cigarettes!

[okdock]

Thanks all for the comments, the owner of a businees must be honest always. If we have honesty our business will always progress and if not at list we have a clean conscience, but some persons are selfish, superficial, hostile and they dont put in someone´s shoes........

I dont judge the flight instructors that do this kind of jobs, but if we all do that we will degrade this profesion. We all the pilots in the world can build that this profesion get better, but not waiting for others to do something. We have the power to change things !!! each of us.

I read in someone post that once they offer him a low salary and he said noo, and after he found a better job. If we the 90% do that things will change...in the future some of us will have aviation business we will do that??? nooo

Things will be much better in the future, everyone will say that is true. But we are the ones how can make things better...no thinking or writing nice things that is easy but doing what is praiseworthy and avoiding practices that are degrading oneself.

[okdock]

Personaly I don't care if some spaniards are killing eachover.

ANSWERING rmcb: sorry this forum is for human beings not animals you are at the wrong forum

[wingreencard]

call your momy!:{

[Dofi27]

Is preferible has 600 euros a month than pay 25000 for a type rating in ryanair for getting a Job in a 737. Thats unvelible

[proudprivate]

First, let us look at


350 euros per month working 40 hours per week


That would be illegal under Spanish law. I recall the minimum wage is about 650 euro / month. Now the only way to verify this would be an inspection by the Ministerio de Empleo, to see whether indeed the employees are working a whole month @ 40 hours per week. Have you worked there ? Could you post a timesheet of an employee there ?
If you have evidence to underpin your allegations, you can complain directly to them, no need to post it anonymously on a forum.


So please dont go to PANAMEDIA, they are serious flight schools in Spain.

They look like a serious flight school to me. In fact, their banner on the IR(A) course is an excerpt from the fun part of the LOC/DME 26 approach at LOWI, which shows their commitment to pan-european training :)


the owner of a businees must be honest always. If we have honesty our business will always progress and if not at list we have a clean conscience, but some persons are selfish, superficial, hostile...


Now, you are also accusing them of corruption, and implying that they are dishonest. Any chance of giving some concrete facts there ?


I can see you're unhappy about the current employment prospects in aviation in Spain, but I fail to see why this should lead to
- organizing a boycott of a flight school that is probably desperate trying to make ends meet; and
- claiming that you somehow have the moral high ground to do this.


I disagree with your premise that flight instructor is a job like any other. Because gaining flight experience is both expensive and very much in demand, it can be expected that flight instructor opportunities are going to be highly competitive, to the point of paying minimum wage only, in spite of the technical requirements.

But that is nothing new. It's just that the crisis in Spain (with youth unemployment unfortunately reaching new heights) exacerbates the situation.

In spite of not agreeing with your post, I wish you the best in your career, aviation or elsewhere...

[okdock]

The reason to talk about it in a forum, is to:

1. Let all the pilots know that is better to avoid this school
2. I know that if the ownwer read this maybe think uhhh is better to follow the law because apart form 350 euros a month in the contract appears that they only work for 5 hours a week. So he pay less
3. Soon I will post a letter in english and Spanish that we can post to the work inspector in anonymous way. So I think if he receive 50 letters he will have a look to the school and maybe this situation will solve.

[proudprivate]

1. Let all the pilots know that is better to avoid this school

Why is that, exactly ? Are they not honouring their contracts with clients ?
By the same reasoning, you can argue that we shouldn't fly Ryanair, that we shouldn't drink tea or coffee unless it has a fairtrade seal, etc... But I don't think that makes a convincing argument.


2. I know that if the ownwer read this maybe think uhhh is better to follow the law because apart form 350 euros a month in the contract appears that they only work for 5 hours a week. So he pay less

What you are claiming is that the owner pays 350 euros a month, gives people a contract that states they only work 5 hours per week, and then forces them to work more ? Any concrete evidence of that ? Are you talking from experience ?


3. Soon I will post a letter in english and Spanish that we can post to the work inspector in anonymous way. So I think if he receive 50 letters he will have a look to the school and maybe this situation will solve.

I'm sure a Spanish civil servant will be thrilled to receive 50 anonymous letters. I hope you're not wishing he or she will act on them.

What you could do (and which I advise you to do) is write a properly signed official complaint letter, stating your experiences and attaching your evidence.

[pablo]

Tu-154,

add on top of that the organization, quality of maintenance, status of equipment... (or lack thereof).

Nevertheless most Spanish FTOs must be crowded with customers because I have e-mailed and phoned 3 of them (including Panamedia) to enquiry about FI rating renewal and no way I could get hold of anyone.

On the other hand, are we talking 50k/year for a VFR instructor, or are we talking about CRI/IRI?

Cheers / Pablo

[zondaracer]

I was about to say... I know some Spanish instructors making over €40,000 annually. We are not all working for a pittance. I have to admit though, I do know of another school nearby where I live that was offering barely over minimum wage for flight instructors, as they were doing their best to be the cheapest school around. Needless to say, I think it is starting to bite them in the arse. You get what you pay for.

[Enki.eve]

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[baleares]

I concur. Terrible, terrible school.